25 April, 2024

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We Do Look Alike & Probably Are Both Dravidian

By Mano Ratwatte

Mano Ratwatte

Mano Ratwatte

We all look alike, exclusionary rights, Language and the “R” word

We do look alike and probably are both Dravidian

The notion that Sinhalese are Aryan is probably not based on evolution, reality or science. This writer recalls attending a lecture by the distinguished Professor Siran Deraniyagala in 1996 and applauding loudly when he said that if a Genome mapping of a random sample of Sinhalese and Tamils was ever done, that we would probably find the same common ancestry; couldn’t agree more. ( Could someone in Sri Lankan academic circles please tell the Colombo Telegraph readership if Sri Lanka participated in the global genome mapping/DNA project?

The Sinhalese and Tamils both look alike. Think about it. We are both represented by the same hues of brown pigmentation to varying degrees and of other similar phenotypic traits. Some of us have very dark skins and others are much lighter. Some individuals have curly hair in both racial groups and others have straight hair (all genetic traits). Perhaps some Tamils and some Sinhalese are fairer than others because they have different ancestral traits? Perhaps both groups also have Malayali ancestry? Perhaps some are taller than others again, but on the whole both Sinhalese and Tamils fall into the category meant by the “Ya’ll look alike” phrase that White people use to describe all people of color. I feel we all do look alike because our common ancestors probably came from the same regions of India.

The concern expressed is that unlike Tamil language which has over a 100 million adherents, Sinhalese is a small ethno-linguistic group. I was stuck with this similarity to Dravidian languages in the Sinhala script the first time I took the Grand Trunk Express from New Delhi to Madras in 1981 and the train passed through many different states in India(each a distinct ethnic group); I was fascinated at the language diversity there and as we passed Andra Pradesh; I sort of saw a strange resemblance in the script to Sinhala. Sinhala is a unique language and culture no doubt about it. The language itself has Pali/Sanskrit origins but even its script looks more round like either Telugu or Malayalam than Hindi or Urdu. There are also similarities to Thai – which makes sense, as Buddhist scriptures are a common resource to both cultures. Sinhala words and phrases sound more Hindi like in contrast to Tamil. To share a little sample of that use the word :Amma. Some of the phonetics appear similar to South Indian languages more than either Bengali, Hindi or Urdu.

അമ്മാ   (malayali)

அம்மா (tamil)

අම්මා (s)

అమ్మ (telugu)

ಅಮಮ (kannada)

ଅମମା (ori)

আম্মা (hindi)

अम्म (Urdu)

আম্ম্স (Bengali)

มารดา (Thai)

In such a world, where people are basically alike whilst just being separated by a twist of language, what is there to kill each other with such gusto?

Having lived for a few years amongst tall big made Sikhs, it is clear that the Sikhs, like the Pathans and Sindhis, Kasmiris and North Indians are of Indo-Aryan heritage. These races are bigger and taller than the Sinhalese and Tamils;it is more than likely that the Sinhalese and Tamils are of a common Dravidian heritage interspersed also with ancestry from Eastern Indian(Aryo-Dravidian?) states of Bihar, Orissa, Bengal and Kerala as well.

It doesn’t matter what that ancestry is anyway. How does what happened millenniums ago apply to 2015? The Kings and Royalty in Kandy were linked to Kerala. Buddhism was revived with help from Siam and Burma. The roots don’t really matter that much.

Maithripala Hindu TamilAt school , this writer recalls some students insulting and teasing the so called Kandyan people, alluding their fairness to “hospitality to whites” during the occupation of the hill country, as per Robert Knox’s narrative of his days in Kandy. But how can one be labeled a Kandyan if one was born and raised in Colombo? There are some areas of Kandy known for families with distinct European traits including lighter colored eyes. Wherever those genes came from, it happened 250 years ago right? Some Tamils are of much lighter skin tone too; perhaps there was some of that “hospitality” there too.

What is the point of claiming to be proud of being Kandyan or Brahmin Hindu or Vellala or Govigama or this or that race or sub group in the context of today’s complex world? To further demarcate boundaries? To claim some mythical relevance to the soil one happens to reside on? All this is only for “us” but rest is for all ? What good is it to put one group down for the same reasons? What is this point of using insults about the people from the South? If I am not mistaken Tiger Tamil terrorism was defeated eventually by leadership given by the people of the south not Kandy! The LTTE leadership themselves hailed from the so-called “lower” classes, not the landowning pseudo-aristocracy that spawned the separatist movement.

Reality is that a lasting political settlement needs to account for the concerns of all groups concerned. The concerns of the minority who feel their identity is threatened is legitimate. We have to somehow forge a national consensus, not bully everyone into submission and impose foreign made solutions such as the forcible merger of the East with the North without any historical or societal justification. That was a principal demand of the Tamil Tigers and their calls for a lebensraum, not dissimilar to the way Hitler used the German language as an excuse for expanding the boundaries of his state. Will the global community ever acquiesce to a small, densely populated, poor nation, carving out 45% of its land mass and 60% of its coastal land for a racially exclusionary separate nation for a 12% minority of its population? “that is exclusively ours” but rest is for everyone?”

Can a racially exclusive land carved out of one part of a small-overcrowded island nation for just one ethno-linguistic group or an ethno-religious group survive when most of the people seeking exclusivity live in rest of the island? Will such a nation be viable when almost all its resources are from outside? Would this sort of ethnic division work?

It’s very easy to throw the “Racism” card at people of a majority. On the other hand, if a minority argues for exclusionary rights, it is not considered racist. It is not equality that is the issue here. It is equitable access to the resources to develop human capital to its best potential,that is the fundamental issue.

The Tamil community in Ceylon used education as the path towards upward mobility. The introduction of “standardization” was seen very differently by the two communities and served to fan the flames of separatism rather than solve anything. Minorities should not be deprived of equitable access to resources. The notion of one part of a small nation being “ours” while rest of it for “all” is disturbing considering every educated Sri Lankan from North or South is a product of “everyone’s resources. There will always be poor and rich in all communities; there will always be those who have an inherent advantage by virtue of wealth. Stable societies try their best to enable a more equitable access to all necessary resources across all groups of people. Some will become richer than others. This is a dilemma being faced by even the richest countries in the world.

Lastly

There is nothing great about being white, black, Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim or Brahmin or Kandyan or whatever label we want to put on ourselves to feel better; and what is worst is then using those labels to go around destroying others. The dangers of ISIS and other such groups wreaking havoc on fellow Muslims is a glaring example of such horrors today.

If one has a critical illness and has to be given blood it doesn’t matter how one regards oneself. All that matters is, that you are either A, B, AB or O and what donors are available. There are even “universal donors” and “universal recipients”. So even the most racist, wealthy aristocrat who needsa transfusion can accept the blood type O-positive, (a universal donor) regardless of the ethnicity, caste, religion or income of the donor. People do not bleed SLFP, Brahmin, Tamil Eelam, Sinhala Buddhist, Christian, UNP, JVP, LTTE either..

What good is to live segregated lives within one’s own little group being afraid of anyone who looks differently or talks differently or dresses differently? What good is it to just want to stick to one’s own kind and feel isolated? What good is it to hide behind masks? The 21st century world led by technology, and social media   is leaving people wanting segregated lives behind.

The words of the Nobel Laureate Tagore the Bengali master was a lament about Indian society which has remained so backward and divided by religion and caste for so a long part of its history. These immortal words of his apply to all societies, including the US where race relations have taken a turn for the worse and also to Sri Lanka’ trying desperately to heal from the scars of a cursed 28 year war. When this writer has moments of prejudices(many are such moments of anger ) and biases he has to remind himself of this poem too.

Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high
Where knowledge is free
Where the world has not been broken up into fragments
By narrow domestic walls
Where words come out from the depth of truth
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection
Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way
Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit
Where the mind is led forward by thee
Into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake
.

We are who we are based on what we do with our own lives; what we make of our lives and our calling in life for the limited time we are on this earth. Whether we are born rich or poor, Brahmin or Untouchable, what we contribute to our society and how we live our lives is what matters. We all look alike no?

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Latest comments

  • 19
    4

    Bravo A good presentation. He is speaking the basic truth.How many of tthe Sinhalese ancestrs marroed from South India into the Dravidian race.What about Vijaya himself.

    • 11
      10

      Everybody seems to be carried away by the Pollyanna type of talk of euphoric situation which is not pragmatic:

      For example, Mano Ganeshan is fighting tooth and nail to stop the proposed elections regulations brought by the majority Sinhalese (National?) parties that in effect will reduce the number of seats in parliament to Tamils and Muslims.

      What does our preacher friend say to that? They have too many seats already, do you say?

      Though many commentators got carried away by the emotions the author has invoked in them, realities on the ground are different, and more importantly the intents are hidden.

      Let our friend talk about abolishing Sinhala only as the official language of the country. Sweet talking humbug, ehh!

      • 6
        7

        Mano Ratwatte,

        Enough is enough of your brain washing of Tamils:

        “We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.” said Buddha.

        With their Sinhala majoritarian thoughts, the Sinhalese have made Sri Lanka a wretched place on Earth.

        Sinhalese think differently as we have found from their cruel actions to Tamils in the last 67 years. A series of actions taken since independence to undermine Tamils rights:

        These actions continue, if covertly while our friend talks about DNA and all that crap to side track the Tamils, nd Muslims too.

        You are another crafty one like Dayan, using a different arguments of course, to fool people.

        Tamils beware of this talk of this brotherhood. Why ask for any distinct rights brothers! We the majority race will take care of you as we have been doing for 67 years, Haven’t we?

        Their is no egalitarianism, political, economical, cultural or otherwise in the Sri Lankan state or its rulers since 1948.

        • 1
          1

          Mrs Thiru or Mr Thiru;

          there is no brain washing here.

          any body, how like it or hate it.
          if you do not like it, leave it and forget it.
          Take it or leave it!,that is up to the readers or commenters, who will decide what is good for them or bad.
          but you have a right to comment with permission from CT.

          BUT there is no big humbug here!!!!!!!!!!!.

          As We are born as HUMAN BEING, We have a right to Live.
          from the beginning to the end,
          WE ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS.
          but,
          because of evolution from the Animal genomes, still we get those beastly thinking from our ancestry genes.

          here is no any differences, but different thinkings only!.
          if you do not like Sinhala language,
          now you can express your ideas in many other languages which ever you like.

          in my case, I like to express my ideas in Tamil more than my Sinhala language as most of my friends and neighbours are Tamizars. [ some of them are Buddhists, who follow and observe at least three precepts; not like our Sinhala Buddhists].

          Nobody want racist comments at C T.

    • 1
      3

      Rattwatte is a tamil descendent of Bandaranayake this article written by deceitful global Jews who have connection some sri lanka section who falsely claim Singhalese.

      Jews willnot give up Sri lanka or attacking Sinhalese identity. Now, I realised why Jews are hated in Europe which is their native land .

      Jews got a piece of land in Palestine to do war mongering and promote hatred against other countries and promote third world war as they engineered first world war and second world war.

    • 1
      0

      Vijaya after getting rid of Kuveni married a princess from Madurai. All this is if we believe in the mahavamsa when we trace our origin to a lion- an animal

  • 18
    4

    This article carries a good message. We are all human beings, and racial divides should be put aside. What matter’s is one’s character.

  • 20
    1

    There is some phenotypic difference between some Sinhalese and some Tamils but for the most part Sinhalese and Tamils are descended from the indigenous inhabitants of the Indian SubContinent.

    The difference is that Sinhalese lost their mother tongue when Indo-Aryan was imposed on their ancestors. Reason for this is that Sinhalese founders emanate from what is not Orissa and Bengal, areas that saw far stronger Indo-Aryan influence than the Dravidian South.

    Pashtuns,Sikhs and Kashmiris also have some of the same racial ancestry as Southern Indians but the difference is a matter of %. The consensus amongst population geneticts is that Indians and Pakistanis all have ancestry from 2 divergent population , namely ASI (ancestrial South Indian) and ANI (ancestral North Indian). North Indians and Pakistanis have significant Ancestral South Indian but less than South Indians. Southern Indians also have significant Ancestral North Indian but less than Northern Indians.

    Back to Sinhalese; they have ancestry from Orissa, Bengal and South India. Even if Sinhalese had little or no South Indian ancestry , they would still be very similar to Dravidians simply because most people in Northern India , especially in Bengal and Orissa , are mostly of pre-Aryan native peoples like Dravidians and Munda.

    Dravidians at one time lived in what is today Pakistan and Northern India, but they lost their Dravidian mother tongue while the ones who lived in the South didn’t.

    • 9
      3

      Palmsquirrell
      “Founders of sinhalese emanated from what is not orissa and bengal, the areas that saw far stronger indo-aryan influence than the dravidian south”

      are you alluding that forefathers of sinhalese came from Gujarat and Karnataka? If so what is the evidence to back this acceptable theory?

      • 7
        2

        There was a type in that sentence: It should have read “Founders of Sinhalese emanated from what is NOW Orissa and Bengal” .

        The typo was “not” when it should have read “now”.

        Further down in my post you’ll see I state Sinhalese ancestry comes from Orissa,Bengal and South India.

        • 6
          2

          this is true of their culture and sarema- orissa bengal tn – its how buddhism spread after lull from bihar origin during Sena period of the deccan

  • 14
    10

    Mano,

    We all look alike, yes. But we do not think alike. For example I do not think the way you think that the need for separation of Sri Lanka is the exclusive demand of the Tamils only. The need to separate was the demand of the Sinhalese too. It is the belief of the Sinhalese that they are a superior race therefore must and cannot let other minorities to live among them. That is why they engage in regular pogroms against Tamils who live among them. It is the Sinhalese who drive the Tamils to enclaves in the north and the east. Perhaps the Sinhalese do not realize that they are the ones who really demand a separate state.

    I agree, we look alike but we do not think alike. Too many aberrations in our genes to see clearly through the mist of biases. We all so easily allow these mists to lead us astray.

    • 11
      11

      Mano,

      You are right, the author tries with smooth talk to inculcate readers with the Sinhalese thinking to suit their intentions.

      Did you notice the age old arguments used by Sinhalese to spread the Sinhala Buddhist hegemony over the island subtly introduced in the arguments?

      The author even tries to dispute historical facts.

      It the Sinhalese people have been thinking that Tamils are their brothers, would they have let loose pogrom after pogrom before LTTE emerged. They only talk about LTTE terrorism as if it suddenly fell from the sky.

      Tamils will be fools if they fall to this kind of sweet talk and brain washing

      Tamils want the freedom they had before the British mortgaged their sovereign rights and annexed their land with the Sinhala ratas to form Ceylon.

  • 11
    16

    Really good article by Mano Ratwatte. These concepts must be instilled in the Lankan population from Kindergarten.

    I am glad to comment very candidly about the Lankan situation. But I am surprised that CT allows certain other comments that do not fit in with their Comments Policy Guidelines. I don’t mind in the end however, as any unsavory comments usually highlight my own comments. I feel privileged to be able to post my comments on CT so I too can be involved in caring for Sri Lanka.

    However, the unsavory comments I have encountered show the mindset of what Lanka has been dealing with for a long time. The crude language plenteous in vulgarity and in abundance of racial slurs, gives proof of a bomb-throwing racially twisted sick-minded culture of too many, that cannot think beyond and above their own racial confines. I hope the West, ever ready with their interferences, will realize at some time, the sad and sorry true state of affairs –now that they have managed to wrestle China from the equation.

  • 5
    12

    HarappaWorld Admixture

    This shows that Sinhalese and Tamils are almost the same genetically:

    http://www.harappadna.org/page/5/

    • 4
      8

      The Sri Lankan Tamils of North and East of Sri Lanka were originally Sinhalese Buddhists who adopted the Hindu religion and the Tamil language and got converted into Tamil Hindus during the longest Chola rule (AD 993 – 1070) of Anuradhapura and then Polonaruwa.

      Very similar to the Sinhalese Buddhists who adopted Christianity and got converted to Sinhala Christians during the colonial rule, during the Chola rule they got converted to Tamil Hindus.

      After the Cholas left when their kingdom/rule in Sri Lanka ended, these converts (Tamil Hindus) went and settled in the North (and East) of Sri Lanka which is geographically closer to the Chola kingdom of South India.

      This is why the physical appearance of the majority of Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils are identical and their complexion is very similar (most of them are dark skinned while there are also fair skinned on both sides). This is why, if they wear the same clothes/dress, it is very difficult to differentiate between the two. If the Sinhalese and Tamils looked different, during the war, our security forces and the public would have easily identified the suicide bombers in advance and taken prior action. This is why the DNA tests also shows that both Sinhalese and Sri Lankan Tamils are almost the same genetically. It is the same people (Sinhalese Buddhists) who have got converted into a different culture as Tamil Hindus during the Chola rule and as Sinhala Christians during the colonial rule. Those who remained as Sinhala Buddhists throughout history were the under privileged until we attained independence in 1948.

      • 7
        1

        Nimal

        “The Sri Lankan Tamils of North and East of Sri Lanka were originally Sinhalese Buddhists who adopted the Hindu religion and the Tamil language and got converted into Tamil Hindus during the longest Chola rule (AD 993 – 1070) of Anuradhapura and then Polonnaruwa”

        Your theory should solve the current ethnic strive!,

        How do you explain the hindu temples (eswarams in Mannar, trinco, chilaw and south) predating the chola period?

        How come the ancestors of devanam piya tassi practiced a religion which was similar to brahmanism (Hinduism)?

        What about tamil brahmi letters found in srilanka predating the chola period?

        How come the ancient pottery and coins indicate close ties between Srilanka and south India in the prehistoric period?

        Why did the sinhalese kings always wanted to marry demala women instead of Aryan princesses of North India?

        How come Mahayana buddhism from south India ( Tamil nadu) took some foothold in Srilanka ( predating chola period)

        This list seems endless. There is a saying in tamil one cannot hide a full pumpkin inside boiled rice. In fact some tamil chauvinists think the sinhala word battakka for pumpkin came from tamil ‘wattakkai’.

        Lastly you should publish your theories in Lankaweb. You will have lots of support.

        • 2
          6

          Irrespective of history, Sri Lanka is predominantly Sinhala-Buddhist in this day and age. And history shows a predominant Sinhala-Buddhist heritage anyway, with some smatterings of Tamil-Hindu ancient culture (quite natural, since Tamil-Hinduism is so close-by to Sri Lanka).

      • 2
        9

        From the Harrapa graph, seems that Tamil Nadu also has the Bengali mix.

        But aside from the genetics, Sri Lanka is a Sinhala Buddhist majority country. THAT has to be preserved.

        • 5
          2

          Sinhala buddhism has to be preserved. I agree; but not by spreading lies and deceits. As a matter of fact one could argue that culure and practices of srilankans is essentially hinduism unlike some religions needing merceneries trying to spread thier religion.
          regards
          Ken

          • 2
            6

            Ken,
            Irrespective of lies and deceit on both sides- some are historical facts and some are legends- Sri Lanka is predominantly a Sinhala-Buddhist country. For an outsider, Sinhala Buddhism might look like Hinduism, but the psyche of the people are quite different from the Hindus. The psyche of the people are temperate and modest. they are kindly and affable. They were companionate enough to allow the religion of their close neighbor to assimilate with them, while retaining their pure philosophy.

            Any changes to their mindset was due to colonization and divide and rule policies of the colonizers.

            Otherwise they would have moved progressively to incorporate bits of the Christianity and Islam into their faith also, but for the craziness of Christian and Islamic based global money and market-systems which is more based more on money and conquest, rather than loving-kindness.

            • 5
              0

              ramona therese

              “The psyche of the people are temperate and modest. they are kindly and affable. They were companionate enough to allow the religion of their close neighbor to assimilate with them, while retaining their pure philosophy.”

              Here we go again.

              Tamils believe they are peace loving people. We know the recent history.

              Israel believes its a peace loving nation, all what we know about Israel is its a piece loving nation, a piece from Syria, a piece from Lebanon, a piece from Jordan, … a large piece from Palestine.

              One can believe in anything they want to however one shouldn’t sell it to others as fact.

              • 4
                0

                Native

                Srilankans are ‘piece’ loving people who are very affable and friendly until their motives becomes more clear
                ken

              • 1
                1

                Native Vedda,
                Tamils too are good people also. In fact in many ways they are better than Sinhalese. But after colonization, they did not know how to regulate themselves and their brains, and work with the rest of the country in the modern context. They still do not care about the rest of the country, and now want to insidiously move towards secession where they can further fuel their thumped up brain-power (with concepts alien to Sri Lankan uniqueness), to join TN and fulfill what they studied for 400 years of colonial rule. Gosh, how plagiarized can they be!

                • 2
                  0

                  Ramona

                  you have your right to have your opinion about tamils. My two cents worth opinion is that sri lankan tamils are better of with sinhalese than Hindians whether there are from tamil nadu or not.

                  Plagiarizing western civilisation is far better than your poisoned opinion on tamils
                  regards
                  Ken

                  • 1
                    4

                    Ken,
                    We ALL know that Lankan-Tamils will have a better time with Sinhalese than with their fellow mates in TN. TN-Tamils merely used our Lankan-Tamils in a useless attempt at greater Tamil-solidarity and conquest of another country. (so abscond with your two-cents worth).

                    It was Western civilization that put delusional thoughts into the secluded Jaffna community, so carefully cultivated for so many generations. Thus bolstered up with European concepts, when the realization of the modern setting came upon them, they were vastly out of context with reality.

                    So, you have no argument at all, other than to go around in circles with false analogy.

                • 3
                  0

                  ramona therese fernando

                  Please revisit your own comment and rewrite it so that in a few days time when you look back how you have typed words that do not stand scrutiny, you may find yourself sitting naked among a handful of wise people who visit this forum. (Please ignore the dirty old codgers)

                  This will stop you from kicking and screaming out of shame (not Heavy Metal), sleepless nights and make you happy at the end when you discover how ill informed you are. Don’t miss the happy days and we know a song about it don’t we:

                  – Happy Days Are Here Again Lyrics

                  So long sad times
                  Go long bad times
                  We are rid of you at last
                  Howdy gay times
                  Cloudy gray times
                  You are now a thing of the past

                  Happy days are here again
                  The skies above are clear again
                  So let’s sing a song of cheer again
                  Happy days are here again

                  Altogether shout it now
                  There’s no one
                  Who can doubt it now
                  So let’s tell the world about it now
                  Happy days are here again

                  Your cares and troubles are gone
                  There’ll be no more from now on
                  From now on…

                  Happy days are here again
                  The skies above are clear again
                  So, let’s sing a song of cheer again
                  Happy times
                  Happy nights
                  Happy days
                  Are here again!

                  – Barbra Streisand

                  Songwriters: AGER, MILTON/YELLEN, JACK

                  • 1
                    5

                    Native Vedda,
                    Ad hominem towards me cannot substantiate for your lack of reason and good argument.

      • 3
        0

        Nimal Fernando
        What evidence have you for coming to the notion that the Cholas converted the SINHALESE into TAMILS during their presence in the island during the time you speak of.

        Adopting the Hindu religion cannot change one’s Sinhalasness as Tamil.The Bengalis, Gujaratis, Punjabies are all what they are though they are Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs which is only a sect and by that token the SINHALESE would object to being construed as TAMILS just because they worship at Katragama or display images and pictures of Hindu Gods in their residences, shops, work places three wheelers and buses etc.
        By your reasoning would you consider a SINHALESE who converts to Islam is a Muslim?

        • 0
          5

          Uthungan,
          You hit the nail on the head by your last question : By your reasoning would you consider a SINHALESE who converts to Islam is a Muslim?

          Yes, a Sinhalese who converts to Islam automatically becomes a Muslim (race also). If Tamil kings begins to rule for a 1,000 years, and the area is a bit cut off from the Buddhist areas, then, Hinduism takes over. But it is fun for Buddhists to play around with Hindu gods and Christian saints all the same- Muslims having no gods or saints.

      • 0
        0

        No Mr.Nimal Fernando. It may have been the other way out.I believe that Sri Lanka was apart of India and later natural factors – geological factors- tore them apart.The original inhabitants of SL could have been Hindus /Indians.King Mahinda is said to have been a Hindu.The Temple at Dondra had a God Shiva’s head.The arrival of Arahath Mahinda and the conversions brought about changes in the religion.The spatial separation brought about the changes in the spoken language. These differences are visible even today. Some of the expression used by a person from Matara different from that of a person form Colombo and also from a person in the kandyans areas.I am told that this applies equally to the tamil language ie vary from Jaffna to batticloa to Kandy.

  • 4
    3

    the genome map will show that categories likE “Dravidian” do not exist in the genetic code, nor categories like “siNhala” or aryan. ANYWAY, THIS ARTICLE SHOWS HOW LITTLE MOST PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT ROOT LANGUAGES, THEIR CONNECTIONS AND THEIR ORIGINS – TOO BAD, and totally misled, and misleading.

    • 12
      2

      Kautilya
      This article shows how little people know about roots of languages? please enlighten us on histotolinguistics.

      I do not underestimate the knowledge of the writer. I think he understands the limitations of concepts dravidian aryan dichotomy. He could have qualified his arguement by stating that both sinhalese and tamils are more related to ancestral south indians in comparison to ancestral north indians. There is evidence to say that there was genetic mixture between ASI and ANI to complicate things further!

      I certainly miss one our esteemed commentators native vedda. He should provide more insight.
      ken

  • 2
    7

    We do look alike and probably are both Dravidian It was “Parai Dhemulo” During the Old King’s strong time. During the election “Tamil Brethren”. Right after the election “Parai Dhemulo”. Now, Is the “Tamil Brethren” is returning? Why is that. Thinking of of UN may may put some pressure until September for an internal investigation? How about if I do not think so? Then “Parai Dhemulo”? The world most tactful con-artist the Sinhala Intellectuals are!

    concerns of all groups concerned. The concerns of the minority who feel their identity is threatened is legitimate. We have to somehow forge a national consensus, not bully everyone into submission and impose foreign made solutions such as the forcible merger of the East with the North without any historical or societal justification. That was a principal demand of the Tamil Tigers and their calls for a lebensraum, not dissimilar to the way Hitler used the German language as an excuse for expanding the boundaries of his state. Will the global community ever acquiesce to a small, densely populated, poor nation, carving out 45% of its land mass and 60% of its coastal land for a racially exclusionary separate nation for a 12% minority of its population? “that is exclusively ours” but rest is for everyone?”

    Do you Like to share the up upcountry, where a lot of Tamils are living instead of you rule the 100% of it? I suggested long ago, Tamil can give up some are on the North and East and they would like to have some are on the Central and UVA. Would you like it?

    First thing Federal government is not about keeping some are for us. It is not army holding the Half of the Northern residential area too. If somebody see North is better than Central they pay the price for that preference and buy the land. We buy their unwanted Central province. But, they can not use the army to occupy our North or East and create communal trouble as an annual event to loot our properties in the south. That is what you call Federal State. Why would you say “all others for all”? Did any Tamil ever asked that their military have to occupy the useless, Hampantota Air port, harbor and the stadium? If you mess up you keep it and pay for the loan. We do not want to pay for that loan and we do not want that idling facility.

  • 6
    7

    I share the writer’s general point of view. (Genome mapping has been done with results even more surprising than the writer expects. I wrote about it about two years ago; can send article to anyone interested).

    However this is about a slip that the writer has made. “Amma” is NOT a Tamil word; it is borrowed from Sanskrit or somewhere like that. The Tamil word for mother is “Thai”. “Amma”-like words came into Malayalam, Telugu and Cannada too probably similarly and recently.

    In fact there is almost nothing that can be inferred about the genetic mix of subcontinental peoples from their languages. The former is tens of thousands of years old, the latter (languages as they persist today) less than five hundred to two thousand.

    • 4
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      But for the silly political abberations SINHALESE and TAMILS have much in common when it comes to their basic DNA.

      Words in English like mummy,mum,mamma all of which have a phonetic sound similarity ,could be derivations from the word ‘Amma’, the word ‘Thai’ is another word in Tamil for mother, both of which are in common everyday useage.

    • 5
      2

      “Thai” is equivalent to English Mother
      “Amma” is equivalent to English Mom.

      The genetic mix in the SubContinent predates the Aryans but there was certainly mixing between intruding Aryans around 3500-3900 years B.P. and some minor input by all the invaders that followed.

      • 3
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        Let me add that: Mother is more formal than Mom/Mum . The former is technically a woman who has given birth while the later is a woman who raised a child and done everything she can to help this child.

    • 9
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      Sanskrit matru, which means “mother”.
      Bengali amma appa which means mom & pop.

      Bangaladesh and Lanka send their women to medieval middle east as maids as if they are not aware of white womans slavery during the 700 year rule of south europe.Visit Tanzania see the picture museum.
      Pakistan & India ban maids to medieval middle east.

    • 4
      1

      The Tamil word for mother is “Thai”. But, ‘Amma’ is how the child addresses his/her mother. There is no chance for a child to address his/her mother, ‘thai’. Those are two different words. However, a child might introduce his/her mother to a third person as, ‘She is my ‘amma” or even ‘She is my ‘thai”. But, the latter is almost never.

    • 3
      1

      Amma went to Sanskrit from Tamil. “A” is negative in Sanskrit. They had drop the “A” sitting in front of the “AMMA’ and made “mmatha”. Same case with Father or “Appa”. Cangam songs and Thevarams have “Amma” and “APPA”. That is 2000 years, if can not prove, it is coming all they way of the Tamils’ 9000 year’ old history. Certainly, When Sanskrit dropped “A” from Mma-tha, it took place in the captured Hindus Vally. So is well over 5,000 years.

      Malayalam did not existed even 800 years. It is absolutely silly to suggest that they both got the “Amma” at the same time.

      Annaye(annai), Aye(AAi), “Yaye”, Thaai all gives exactly the same meaning. These are unrelated words to Amma. Aachchi sometime means Amma. But if you like “Achchiyum, Apparum”, it is rigidly meaning only father and mother. (My younger bother used called our mother in his scholl days Achchi, because he happened read in a Tamil claiming Ayechchi is only “Amma” and “Aw-vaye [Auvai]” is the old woman.) This is coming from “Aye-chchi” But Aathye used both ways.

      It is noticeable the Sanskrit’s Ma-Aye (“Maya”- The Great Mother) went from Tamil “Aye, Ayechchi”.

      Amma,
      Appa,
      Acca,
      Annai,(elder Bother)
      Anni,(Could be a recent word)
      Aththaan

      all these “A” sound words are used for senior person only. Younger ones takes different route. I would guess(don’t know to prove), they are build in the same sense with Asirian(guru), Andavan(god) Arasan(King). In the former words “A” might have been inserted with the same sense of the latter ones, which are taking the “A” only to tell that the respect expected from that relationship which has the ruling capacity. The problem of Sanskrit which has negative meaning for “A”, resulted in modifying the words or completely drop off it from its list.

      Two funny things I see is “Arasan” went to Sanskrit as “Raja” and came back as “Irrasa” as “Raja” is an illegal from to Tamil grammar. Same with the “Perithu” and “Piramam”. The “Perithu” (still in English, it is maintaining the sound – Big) went to Sanskrit as “PPramam” and came back as “Piramam”.

      A little different case with Numerical. All world Languages still holing the sound of Tamil in their numerical.

      “Onru” – One,, une,,,
      “Trandu” – Two
      “Moonru” – Three
      “Aynthu”- “pancha” five

      ……..
      …….
      “Eddu” – Eight

      But it is not sure how Sanskrit, Pali and their follower Sinhalese lost the “Onru” from their vocabulary. On that only, they took a different direction and went for “Ekka”.

      Earlier, “Eha”, in Tamil is empty. When it came back from Sanskrit, it is single

  • 4
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    This essay is an outcome of the ignorance of the ground realities.

  • 3
    3

    Mano Ratwatte –

    RE: We Do Look Alike & Probably Are Both Dravidian

    “We all look alike, exclusionary rights, Language and the “R” word

    We do look alike and probably are both Dravidian”

    Correction:

    and are both Dravidian. Wals like a dravidian, Has words like a Dravidian, came by Kallthoni, Hora Oru, and cannot tell one from another..

    No Lion genes were found!

    Just analyze the DNA. It Shows.

    Genographic Project

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genographic_Project

    Field researchers at 11 regional centers around the world collect DNA samples from indigenous populations. The project also sells self-testing kits: for US$100 (with the advent of Phase II “Geno2.0” testing, the price has been increased to US$199.95 for a more comprehensive test). Anyone in the world can order a kit with which a mouth scraping (buccal swab) is obtained and analyzed, and the DNA information is placed on an Internet-accessible database. In the first phase of the project, genetic markers on mitochondrial DNA (HVR1) and Y-chromosomes (12 microsatellite markers and haplogroup-defining SNPs) were used to trace the participant’s distant ancestry, and each customer was provided with their genetic history via a secure website. With the new Geno 2.0 test, nearly 150,000 genetic markers from across the entire genome are examined, with the results delivered via an updated website. As of 2014 some 700,000 people have contributed their DNA for analysis. This element of success of the project has resulted in a broader interest in direct-to-consumer genetic testing.[citation needed]

    The Genographic Project is undertaking widespread consultation with indigenous groups from around the world. Genographic Project public participation kits are processed by Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) in Houston, Texas.

    The project is a privately funded, not-for-profit collaboration between the National Geographic Society, IBM and the Waitt Foundation. Part of the proceeds from the sale of self-testing kits support the Genographic Project’s ongoing DNA collection,[2] but the majority are used for a Legacy Fund to be spent on cultural preservation projects nominated by indigenous communities.

    In Fall 2012, The Genographic Project announced the completion of a new genotyping array, dedicated to Genetic Anthropology, called the GenoChip. GenoChip is specifically designed for anthropological testing and includes SNPs from autosomal DNA, X-chromosome DNA, Y-chromosome DNA and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). The design of the new chip was a collaborative effort between Dr. Eran Elhaik of Johns Hopkins, Spencer Wells of National Geographic, Family Tree DNA, and Illumina.[3]

  • 8
    3

    Sir, I am a Tamil and had to pass the Sinhala Proficiency exam. My Asst. boss at that time told me that in his childhood before 1945 Sinhala and Tamil were very similar. He said it was true and to watch Muwan Palessa an early Sinhala movie if I did not believe it. With the coming of Rupavahini “Aryan” words started replacing the common, Dravidian-root words, till people like him had to call the likes of us to come and explain the official legal letters in Sinhala that came to them! At the same time, for using high Sanskrit-sounding new Sinhala words in my conversation, I was filed at the spoken Sinhala exam, saying that the natives would not understand me.

    When the mind is blind, no philosophy or even the gods cannot help one, even if his/her head is held high.

    • 6
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      that is because when you use words: kumkumam (crocus;saffron) Candanam (sandalwood)
      both sanskrit but they would say that is tamil but you get it in greek origin too (400BCE Greeks at east punjab)
      You should add the 3rd one Sambhare (sambol) they would say I like it with dosa waddi waddi. if not veddi handde (gun shots)

      Sihala starts with Spanish Buro donkey. If you mix and match there is always a smile.

      if instead of `Snuff` we like to be Samuel Johnson: those minute pulverized particles of atoms- they call you pundit not for common talk for common people.

      Mouse Tes Tung changed the mind by fixing the language he wanted with a hammer blow to split the head and a sickle to cut the neck- butterfly fly.

      Lanka with outlaws need the law to drive it home against racial remarks- media by ranil is a step forward.
      Progressive nations study all the languages to be good neighbours.

  • 9
    1

    We Do Look Alike & Probably Are Both Dravidian, May be we do, but we don’t think alike, which is more important than the looks:

    Remember what Buddha said: We are what we think ……

    • 3
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      Thiru

      “We Do Look Alike & Probably Are Both Dravidian,”

      You are. The DNA in your bodies is further definite proof, and that is why you look alike.

      Further circumstantial evidence give below.

      1. Both Dravidians, Tamil Dravidians and Sinhala Dravidians, have low Average IQs of 79.

      http://www.photius.com/rankings/national_iq_scores_country_ranks.html

      2. Both more or less have about the same fraction of Fools/Common Sense like, the Mootal/Non-Mootal ratio, Modayas/Non-Modayas ratio.

      Want more evidence? Just the study the politicians and the people who vote for them.

      • 4
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        Mano Ratwatte,

        Enough is enough of your brain washing of Tamils:

        “We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.” said Buddha, the great thinker of all time.

        With their wretched thoughts the Sinhalese have made Sri Lanka a wretched place on Earth.

        So move on mate, Sinhalese think differently as we have found from their cruel actions to Tamils in the last 67 years.

        You are another crafty one like Dayan, using a different arguments of course, to fool people.

        Tamils beware!

        • 1
          1

          Thiru

          “You are another crafty one like Dayan, using a different arguments of course, to fool people.
          Tamils beware! “

          Yes.

          Tamils, call the Sinhala, Para-Sinhalas.

          Sinhalas, call the Tamils, Para-Dermalas.

          After all, that is what the Native Veddah Aethho call you, Para-Sinhala and Para-Dermalas.

          Can you Paras, please get back to India, Maha Bharataya, Dambadiva?

          The Vedda Tribe

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f89NuukY32U

  • 6
    2

    A very enlightening article to all those who are exclusivists- Sinhala or Tamil. A modern society requires that all people should have access to resources and the freedom to use them without being shut out on account of their race, ethnicity or religion. This is what human rights and freedom are about. This is what is required for both economic development as well as to safeguard the human rights of persons.

  • 8
    1

    Further, voices are sound modulations which are mere information carriers. All languages are sound modulations. Even the blood is a carrier of information and energy. Life could be defined as organised body processing information and energy.
    Whole universe is filled with life, by this definition. You can even call the entire universe as god since the universe appear to be organised, that includes you and me and all matter around us.

    It is the beliefs which cause misunderstandings. Instead of believing, it would be contributory if believing become understanding.

    Discrimination in Sri Lanka is purely due to deceptions by politicians.

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      In the early 20th century the Tamil elite, reacting against Sinhala ‘Aryanism’, began asserting the superiority of the ‘pure Dravidian’ Tamil race over the ‘hybrid mongrel’ Sinhalese (calling the Sinhalese “a race of hybrids” and an offshoot of the Tamils/converts). At a meeting in Navalapitiya in 1939, GG Ponnambalam attacked the Mahavamsa and the Sinhalese in such extreme terms that the people attacked him, and the first Sinhala-Tamil riots began.

      • 4
        5

        GG Ponnambalam was 100% correct.

        I used to wonder what the actual origin of the Sinhalese is, are they Dravidian, NegroidS, Mongoloid Bengalis, Malays or just a mixture of everything that landed on the Sri Lankan shore. The Sinhalese slept with everything that landed on the Sri Lankan shore and created this mixed race called Sinhala. Some Sinhala jokers still try to act like puritans.

        The Kandyan Sinhala Buddhist monks had to overlook every Sinhalaya in the country and imported a Tamil blooded Dravidian prince to sit on the Kandyan throne because the Sinhalese mixed up with everyone who landed in Sri Lanka and lost the ritual purity. So compared to the Sinhalese, the Tamils are not a mixed race of people at all. They are pure Dravidians.

        • 6
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          Ravi

          “the Tamils are not a mixed race of people at all. They are pure Dravidians.”

          Fellow forum sharers

          We should propose Ravi for the esteemed Darwin Awards:

          In the spirit of Charles Darwin, the Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives. Darwin Award winners eliminate themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species’ chances of long-term survival.

          What are they?

          The Darwin Awards commemorate individuals who protect our gene pool by making the ultimate sacrifice of their own lives: by eliminating themselves in an extraordinarily idiotic manner, thereby improving our species’ chance of long-term survival. In other words, they are cautionary tales about people who kill themselves in really stupid ways, and in doing so, significantly improve the gene pool by eliminating themselves from the human race.

          These individuals carry out disastrous plans that any average pre-teen knows are the result of a really bad idea. The single-minded purpose and self-sacrifice of the winners, and the spectacular means by which they snuff themselves, make them candidates for the honor of winning a Darwin Award. The terrorist who mails a letter bomb with insufficient postage deserves to win a Darwin Award when he blows himself up opening the returned package. As does the fisherman who throws a lit stick of dynamite for his faithful golden retriever to fetch and return to him. As do the surfers who celebrate a hurricane by throwing a beachfront party and getting washed out to sea.

          Named in honor of Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, the Darwin Awards represent examples of evolution in action by showing what happens to people who are unable to cope with the basic dangers of the modern world. These ironic tales of fatal misadventure illustrate some of life’s most important lessons.

          Most of us know instinctively that the words “trust me” and “light this fuse” are a recipe for disaster. We assume that basic common sense eliminates the need for public service announcements such as, “Warning: Coffee is hot!” and “Superman cape does not enable wearer to fly.” But the true stories you will read show that common sense is really not so common. No amount of overzealous caution would have helped the man who used household current to electrocute fish in a pond, then waded in to collect his catch without removing the wire. As you’ll see, there are even people who need to be told not to peek inside a gas can using a cigarette lighter.

          The Darwin Awards are macabre tales that make us laugh while instructing us in the laws of common sense. Consider the man who crawled under the roller coaster guardrail to retrieve his hat. When the next coaster came by, an unfortunate rider broke her leg on his skull. Ouch! From our point of view, the man who lost his head is a Darwin Award winner, and his story is just another episode in the saga of survival of the fittest.

          The Darwin Awards can be considered a rusty chromosome award for those who douse the gene pool with chlorine.

          http://darwinawards.com/rules/

          • 0
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            NV,
            Ravi has got pitted into vaiko Lungi,or sort of tam`ill mutti TN(they hat tn have lived negotiating with giant hindian neighbour for millennial why do they fall in that emotional of other component that is trying to ivolve like sach sihala buddhist.
            will darwin get that portugese bender off his shoulder.
            Dana gena giyoth kataragama and back as a pure breed rihno eating mindfully the vege and doing his ritual ; no donkey would bray to say they are just mules.

      • 1
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        Nimal Fernando, Never knew this happened. So that’s it! That’s the reason for all the strife- it was GG Ponnambalam who did it! Hope the UN sees this!

  • 3
    7

    Sinhalease are 110% Malayali origin which was a Tamil Sera KIngdom once….during 6th century due to some resons there was a high immigration from Kerala towars SL south coastal towns ..Sinhalese follow Kerala food,festival,dress even Magic above all Sinhalease worship Kannaki (Paththini) which originated from Tamil Sera Kingdom (Today Kerala)…

    Kandyan kingdom created by the immigration of Manawadus from South India ..when Chola empire lost power these Manawadus embraced Buddhism for political resons ….Kannusaamy became Sri Wikrama Rajasinghe..

    Mahavamsa is a fabricated book with lots of false information….it wanted to show Sinhalese are Arayans …even Dutegemunu was black this is a pure Dravidian identity…

    How on earth in deep Sinhala area Katragama Murugan temple came ? Only Tamils worship Lord Murugan….

    Buddhism is not a religion but a pure Philosophy ..even in Thailand Buddhists worship Vishnu and Pillaiyar…only these two gods seen in many temples.

    Ariyawathi..Nantha wathi…Leela ..names like these al came from Thailand these are very common names there……

    • 5
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      CHOLAn

      “Mahavamsa is a fabricated book with lots of false information….it wanted to show Sinhalese are Arayans”

      Could you cite the chapter, page and verse to support your comment.

  • 3
    1

    The basic fact is when communities live so close to each other,intermingling, intermarriages take place. Those together with children out of wed lock between ethnic groups exist in millions. OK, if Sri Lankans are too sensitive doing an introspect, take a look at border areas between China and India, or most countries in South America, Central America, Caribean, either side of silk route, Philippine etc etc. What they look like, how they relate amd what they eat or speak. Sri Lanka and South India are no exception.

    I also believe that large droves of Marati people came to Sri Lanka at the time of Devanam Piya Tissa, along with Arhat Mahinda as their supporters, and the long period afterwards. Why I said it? I have spent a lot of time in Indore, Bhopal, Sanchi region. To my amazement I found that I could understand the gist of a conversation between local people, though I do not know or speak their dialect Marati. In contrast to Hindi, Marati has many words very similar to our Sinhala that I found and learnt (in sunday schools) in the old style Sinhala and Pali literature. There are many similarities in physical features, people are very religious both Hindu, Muslim and Buddhists etc, and in Bhopal area there is a very large Buddhist population. It is not scientific research, just observations and common sense.

    Most of our problems related to ethnic separation and division etc come from pure greed for land and property, and power crazy politicians manipulating people’s sensitivities. It is nothing to do with social interactions. For example, fights over land and best position in the parent’s inheritance exist in every family, within the family, between siblings, no matter what ethnic group they belong to. In contrast When two people become friends for whatever reason, as a chance encounter or they have personality affinities, they stick together as long as trust is maintained between the two, or some jealous person comes and split them through tale-telling, no matter what ethnic groups they belong to. That is what power crazy politicians do.

  • 8
    2

    It doesn’t matter what we look like or even what we actually are. What causes problems is what we think we are. I’ve heard of Sinhalas who think they are ‘pure aryan’ and a Tamil who thinks he’s a native veddah!

    • 8
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      “”I’ve heard of Sinhalas who think they are ‘pure aryan’””

      Dr Mervin son married one and went to jail.

      Buro, burus bandas with stick tic,tic, ticks.

  • 2
    0

    If the Genome project is the standard, then our ancestors walked out of Africa a couple of Milleniums ago and we are what is left of that trip.

    The Aryan race Hilter so loved has now been discovered to be of Indian origin not European.

    I think our issues with racism and communal hatred are much more recent and an entire list of issues have rolled it into a simmering crisis. Of course cunning politicians know how to manipulate the labels for their advantage, from every community.

    There are no innocents in this race to the bottom. Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims ( this is a misnomer because they are not a unique racial group)are all guilty of exploiting advantages and crying only when they are taken away or lost.

  • 3
    1

    Much thanks to Mano Ratwatte for this piece. I have been echoing the same in some of my previous postings here on CT.

    There is genetic similarity between Israeli Jews and Palestinians – and between Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims. People in these regions had hoped that the results of these genetic tests would subside the animosities between the groups.

    The Turks aren’t from Mongolia even though they speak a language that has its roots in Mongolia.

    The Egyptians ,Tunisians,Algerians,Moroccans and Libyans aren’t from the Arabian Peninsula even though they speak a language that originated in the Peninsula.

    The bulk of the Sri Lankan Muslim population is not of Arab/Moor descent even though they identify with a religion that originated in Arabia.

    The Palestinians,Lebanese and Syrians are mostly pre-Arabian inhabitants of the region who lost their mother tongue.

    Sudanese by and large are not from Arabia even though most speak Arabic as their mother tongue.

    Sinhalese and Lankan Muslims are overwhelmingly native to the Indian SubContinent. This goes without saying : language shift and religious conversion did not change their genetics.

  • 3
    1

    Has anyone taken a good look at MR’s face, of Gota and Basil, as well as Namal and to some degree Yoshitha. Do they look like Sinhala or Malaccan faces? Why the yongest MR boy and MR’s big brother have long narrow faces. Where did their genes come from?

    • 4
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      where did their geni come from.

      mystic muslim mercenaries of kerala patnam.
      all except voc came that way from roman arab portugese english :
      that small state had all the pillows and when it lost it was the control and guard muslims who became mercenaries.
      dr mathir went that way but did you ask how well portugese took him there as they traded as far a maccau and nagasaki trading post.
      they traded in people of maccau to goa and spices and churches etc- there was a confluk of european activity too from danes french spanish dutch 1560 english from 1600.

    • 3
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      Rajapaksa’s are Catholics of Malaccan origin. Their Malaccan relatives were banished by Islamic Rulers of Malacca for helping the Portuguese conquest of Malacca. They converted to Sinhala-Buddhists for Political mileage. Mahinda Rajapakse’s ancestor became an informant to the British during the late 19th century anti-British local uprising around the Hambantota salterns. This information led to the capture of Karava Mudaliyar Amadoru and other leaders. The British rewarded the informant with the name Rajapakse (British gave special names to people in who helped them), appointed him as an Arachchi and granted him 600 acres of land at Hungama for his service. The area was a Veddah territory of Giruwa pattu and the name of the land was Degampotha. This land was sold off in stages by Rajapakse Arachchi’s descendants to finance their indulgences leaving only Medamulana.

      Later, the land owning Sinhala-Buddhist Rajapakse family hailing from the south joined the Govigama caste around 1930s, long after D. S. Senanayake and other aspiring political families acquired the Govigama identity created by the mudaliar families of the De Saram clan and emerged as the dominant political force in the Hambantota district. For the last 10 years, this family was controlling around 75% of the national budget.

      • 3
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        “by the mudaliar families of the De Saram clan and emerged “

        500 CE Andhra, bengali weaved into tamil sihala speaking Sarema culture??

        Whey, that is the only log distance to buddha gaya.

        there is a 60 foot tall giant hooka next to lankan guest house at lumbini which is refilled for buddha gathering by the biharis for centuries.

        Mooksha to the tree worshiping Hyenas.

        Buddha history, myth, Buddha is Opium for the masses.

  • 7
    2

    “Having lived for a few years amongst tall big made Sikhs, it is clear that the Sikhs, like the Pathans and Sindhis, Kasmiris and North Indians are of Indo-Aryan heritage.”
    Hinala
    Of the Hyena no lions except south africa a dutch and english colony.
    The term “Aryan” is used among Hindu nationalists to refer to the Hindu/Indian people as indigenous to India, in contrast to the Indo-Aryan migration-theory.
    Aryan means the place where the Iranian resides- i

    Tucking into street food is one of the joys of studying and travelling in India – When you sit at faridabad wet zone truck wallas cul du sac. that is where cultures mix and they have their own stupid story of greece, Mongol ruler Genghis Khan(ruled 1/2 earth up to eastern Europe, (see Taras Bulba acting) Turko-Mongol conqueror Timur whose blood strains and Sharia commerce law they still share.
    Except for the eastern Himalayas(Nepal, Nagaland Sikkim, Bhutan)& Tamil Nadu where the turks could not invade the ever negotiating state for several thousands of years with neighbours and traders for silk.(TN’s untouched Hindu temples of ancient speak for itself- north was raised to ground and just the Gupta Pillar (presently at delhi) which they tried but failed to destroy)

    So the north is chequered (pure is TWA syndrome harold robbins like parsi) just like you; nothing to feel ashamed you are what you are we can smell it when we eat and drink at the wadde)
    They have no hardware so they talk shit because they were mercantile and ended up with Iranian linked governments for 68 years now- sharia commerce Indira hubby)

    STIGMA:they Chinese are smart workshop and Jewish are smartest folk in the world-

    ______________________________________________________________
    So sihalese are muslim in thinking Aryan?? you had no iranian entry except for the guy went to jail after marriage and 30 families after partition 1947 citizens.
    You could easily go as Jewish as there are many vacant already being accepted is Mizoram- please apply

    north hindia hindi language is persian mix and from 1497 they use sharia law still for commerce at old Delhi- go to fruit market money changers etc plus government of India still does barter with Iran for oil under sharia law.
    You cant trek up and down then up the Deccan plateau to come to the island. Roma went up forward ended up in Spain and spread to Ireland too.

    In Iranian literature:
    Unlike the several meanings connected with ārya- in Old Indic, the Old Iranian term has solely an ethnic meaning.[27][28] That is in contrast to Indian usage, in which several secondary meanings evolved, the meaning of ar- as a self-identifier is preserved in Iranian usage, hence the words “Iran”/”Iranian” themselves. Iranian airya meant and means “Iranian”, and Iranian anairya [12][14] meant and means “non-Iranian”. Arya may also be found as an ethnonym in Iranian languages, e.g., Alan/Persian Iran and Ossetian Ir/Iron[14]
    The name Iran, Iranian is itself equivalent to Aryan, where Iran means “land of the Aryans,”[12][12][14][28][29][30][31][32] and has been in use since Sassanid times[30][31]

  • 0
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    Hey – is it only me or does the Sinhala script differ from all other scripts. to me all other scripts more or less look alike while Sinhala look totally alien. any thoughts any one ?- Our Ola leaf made the script more round or what ?

    • 1
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      When it come to scripts, have a look at the South Indian Kerela (Malayalam) script and Andara (Telugu) scripts. They are also circular in shape and very similar to the Sinhala script. I believe all these were adopted from Grantha script. Check for pronunciation from google, some of them not only look similar but also sound similar.

    • 2
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      Double standards

      There is a theory among epigraphists that shape of the alphabet of indian languages was influenced by what was used to write the scripts. Sinhalese and tamil as well as other south indian languages were written in leaves. This meant the letters were round ( round letters; vattezhuthu).

      North Indian letters were written in clothes/ bark of a tree according to my memory. This meant that letters were linear. Examples are the devanagari sanskrit script, hindi etc.

      There is evidence to say that sinhalese alphabet was heavily influenced by pallava grantha script of south India. However, majority of Srilankan ( sinhalese) academics like to think that sinhala script originated from brahmi script. This concept was first concocted by a German philologist Wilhelm Geiger. This was based on the Mahavamsa. However, some the sayings in Mahavamsa cannot be logically extrapolated to origin of sinhala script.

      http://www.icta.lk/attachments/article/1090/1090_Guide%20to%20creating%20Sinhala%20and%20Tamil%20Unicode%20fonts.pdf
      second chapter in the above link discusses on origin of sinhala script
      regards
      Ken

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        “There is evidence to say that sinhalese alphabet was heavily influenced by pallava grantha script of south India.”

        this was the hoodwinking period originating andhra bengal (since there were no relatives to rule but chieftans – a lull)
        the same time 500CE Sanskrit and Prakrit was the vogue in the Deccan – Buddha is Opium for the masses. So pallava followed suit. (same as franco played anti communism but fascist to the core to appease ronald regan bombing spain)
        (Harisena, also Harishena or Hirisena, was a 4th-century Sanskrit poet, panegyrist, and government minister”Harisena’s poem bears expressly the title Kavya,)

        Lankans are playing the maratha card but Maratha Hindu it is the giver of freedom for hinduism and sanskrit from all foreign invasions so far.
        Buruvas,

        Deshestha Marathi, spoken in Tanjore, Tamil Nadu
        Judæo-Marathi, spoken by the Bene Israel Jews
        The first Marathi translation of an English book was published in 1817, and the first Marathi newspaper was started in 1832. 1818 it fell fully to british same as kandy whole country.
        __________________________________________

        Chinese/Japanese script represents the object (forgotten terminology what do you call that script please??)

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        ken thanks for explanation- looking at all the scripts above, its obvious that they are all related( north and south)- my question is more on local & recent development why is it(Sinhala) more round than all others, it really look different – did we have a particular kind of writing material that made it easier to round the letters ?

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          Double standards
          This topic has been previously discussed in CT by Dr Rajasingham Narendran
          please see the following links

          http://noolaham.net/project/48/4736/4736.pdf

          https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/the-evolution-of-the-sinhala-language-an-important-reference

          The Influence of The Tamil Language in Sinhala Letters By Rev Dhammaratana Thero
          I could not get the above reference yet. I do not fully endorse the views expressed in the above links.
          Interestingly, first linguistics conference is going to happen in kelaniya university this august 2015. Hopefully more light should shed into this areas in the future.
          regards
          ken

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            but tamil look a lot like any other south indian script, Sinhala look different. I sure tamil and Sinhala has influenced each other but that is not my question

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              Double standards
              “that is not my question”
              Fair enough. I recently bought a book on evolution of sinhala alphabet by a previous prof sinhala from kelaniya university.
              I will see whether I can dig that book out.
              regards
              Ken

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    Javi
    interesting comment. I need to do research on it
    regards
    ken

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    7 or 8 times out of 100, I can make out a Tamilian from a Sinhalese. Take a trip to Colombo and a little North of Colombo, and you will always be able to pick the Tamil commuters ad shoppers from the Sinhalese! Even in India, it is easy to pick them in a crowd.

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      Rod,

      With such an extra ordinary talent, where were you during the war? You should have been helping the SL Army intelligence to identify those LTTE Tamil suicide bombers in advance to take prior action to stop them. You could have saved tens of thousands of innocent lives.

      Have another look at all those Tamil TNA parliamentarians, if they were taking a bath along with the Sinhala parliamentarians of the South, do you think you can identify them separately? I cannot and I am sure the majority of Sri Lankans will not.

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    I meant 7 times out of 10!

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    – The inhabitants of the Indian sub-continent ( including India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, B’desh etc ) are a result of heavy racial admixture. In Biological terms only 3 well defined major races can be identified ( Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid ). Admixtures of various degrees of these 3 can be found in the Indian subcontinent.

    – Aryan is a sub group of the Caucasoids ; the other group being the semites. Leading geneticists (eg :Cavalli Sforza of Stanford ) utilized genetic markers ( snp, satellite etc ) to trace the evolution of human races across continents and concluded that most populatons of Nothern india would fall under the caucasoid Aryan group whereas the southern Indian populations fall largely under the Caucasoid Dravidian branch.

    Cavalli relied heavily on two crietria for his analysis. Genetic markers of paternal origin (Y chromosome ) and linguistics.
    Those interested are referred to his ” History and geography of Human genes” and “The genetics of Human Population.” A basic degree in Biology wth at least a few coursesi n genetics is required to fully comprehend the text.

    – I see a lot of emotional comments that are devoid of a real understanding of human popuation dynamics. The Sinhala and the Tamil populations belong to a population that is caught in a “cultural and linguistic divergence ” pattern which may, in time, lead to genetic isolation and wider racial diffferences. Isolation which is a fundamental factor in Darwinian Evolution ( eg island effect, random genetic drift etc ) can occur by way of geographical isolation or cultural isolation ( as we see among various ethnic groups who prefer to inter-marry – within their own group).

    Therefore I believe that Mr Ratwatte is erroneous in concluding that similarity in appearance necessarily means similarity in racial grouping. For instance the R1a1 marker is a well known marker that identifies the R1a1 aryan haplogroups & can be used to trace Aryan origins which may or may not be masked by admixtures.

    I am not a geneticist and this is not an authoritative statement in anyway. Just an opinion.

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      American Mama

      “Therefore I believe that Mr Ratwatte is erroneous in concluding that similarity in appearance necessarily means similarity in racial grouping”.

      I believe you concluded that Mr Ratwatte made an erroneous conclusion that phenotypical appearance can be misleading because the genetic make up of Srilankans could be different. I think you support your conclusion by stating that Srilanka was being isolated from linguistic and geographical perspective, the so called sinhala is an indo aryan isolate which I think was initially proposed by a sinhala scholar named Prof Gair.

      However you failed to support your conclusion that the genetic makeup of sinhalese and tamils were different. There is enough evidence now to say that both sinhalse and tamils are similar in their genetic makeup.

      Here is the evidence to say that sinhalse and tamils are of similar genetic make up.
      http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/pdf/jhg2013112a.pdf

      I am sorry this is an abstract. I have the full article which I am unable to upload at present. This particular study was done based on mitochondrial analysis of sri lankans including the veddas. It demonstrates that genetic makeup of sri lankan tamils and sinhalese are similar. Not surprisingly veddas are a unique genetic isolate in comparison to tamils and sinhalese. However unsurprisingly sinhalese and tamils share majority of their mitochondrial genes with their south Indian brethren.

      There is an expert commentary in the above paper made by leading genetic researcher called Mr Gyaneshwer Chaubey. He suggests

      “to find out the signatures of ancient as well as recent admixture to reconstruct the demographic history for the Sri Lankan populations (including
      linguistic isolate Vedda), along with the complete mtDNA informations, high-resolution Y-chromosomal and high coverage complete genome resequencing data are essential”.

      In other words further studies are needed including complete mapping of mitochondrial genes as well as analysis of Y chromosome for SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) are necessary.
      link http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n2/full/jhg2013122a.html

      You based your conclusions on non existent Y chromosomal study in Srilanka!

      I have further concerns about on your comments below on archaeogenetics of India. I need to leave it for the time being
      regards
      ken

      “paternal lineages of Indian caste groups are primarily descended from Indo-European speakers who migrated from central Asia 3,500 years ago”.

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    this is one of the best article with truth which has been written by this gentleman.Two years ago a book called “PEOPLES AND CULTURES OF EARLY SRILANKA “based on genetics published by Dr Thiagarajah. This book also gives all the facts about early settlement of people in srilanka.
    unfortunatley most of singalese or tamils have not sofar evolved to understand the facts in science.It is a pity to see tamils are still maintaing their old caste system and the singalese showing their superiority to survive in this small nation.

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    Mixed marriages and therefore, mixed ancestry is a common feature in all neigbouring countries, including England, Russia etc. Does this mean there are no English people in England or Russian people in Russia? What differentiate nations today are their culture, history and language.
    Someone, tell me why on earth do the Sinhalese speak the unique language Sinhala, as old as Sanskrit, but not spoken in any part of India and also have their own culture and history, so much different to Tamils, if they were all from the same stock?

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      Raja,
      ” Sinhalese speak the unique language Sinhala, as old as Sanskrit, ” Could you please provide some evidence?
      Sinhala Language is not that old.

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    Ken

    Thanks for the response. A few quick points.

    1. “You based your conclusions on non existent Y chromosomal study in Srilanka!”

    I have not based any “conlusions on non-existent Y chromosomal studies in Sri Lanka.” If you care to read my post again you may notice that what I said was that IF NEEDED the R1a haplogroup and assoicated genetic distances may be studied to trace differences between Tamils and Sinhala populations. Nowhere did I say it has been already done.

    2. Obviously tracking genetic distances via principal component analysis (clustering) and other statisical methods is extremely complicated and tracing the roots of one haplogroup such as R1a1 which displays the M17 marker alone would not suffice. However it maybe a convenient and easy to use indicator of genetic trends between these 2 populations.

    3. I am unsure about the usefulness of mtDNA analysis in tracking genetic distances as Mitochondrial DNA is inherited through mmaternal lines and in male dominated scoities of the sub continent Y chrmomosome based FST values may be much more useful

    4 Lastly, homologous phenotypes do not necessarily indicate phylogenetic relationships. Bats maybe mistaken for birds and whales and dolphins maybe mistaken for fish because they LOOK SIMILAR. But as we know there are serious genetic distances between whales (mammalia) and fish( Pisces). Homology and analogy are evolutionary concepts important in any genetic analysis

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      American Mama

      Thank you for your clarification

      1. you did not mentioned any Srilankan study, However you argument that Mr Ratwatte made an erroneous conclusion was wrong.

      I showed you a study as a counter evidence to suggest there is no significant difference between sinhalese and tamils. I am disappointed you did not comment on that study, rather you choose to question the validity of that study. population genetics based on mitochondrial inheritance is a well established field . Of course this mitochondrial studies need to be supplemented with SNP analysis on Y chromosomal studies.

      Here is an article on deficiencies of mitochondrial analysis for your reference
      http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/272/1572/1525#sec-7

      2. “homologous phenotypes do not necessarily indicate phylogenetic relationships”, This a principle we learn in basic biology, I think your analogy is inappropriate given the morphological and genetic makeup look the same in both ethnic populations.

      3. You mentioned there was significant genetic influx into india in 3500 YBP. current evidence suggests that there were multiple genetic influx of eurasian gene pool from various periods as well as contribution from eastern gene pool as evidenced by India’ current population matrix. This was also addressed in the following articles, This area is in development and I would not want to be dragged for comments.
      http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0002929711004885/1-s2.0-S0002929711004885-main.pdf?_tid=e3357f8c-c584-11e4-a311-00000aab0f6c&acdnat=1425813706_35c44a127ae4ea2478d45cd7ff6209a6

      http://www.ias.ac.in/jbiosci/nov2012/911.pdf

      I found the second article by thangaraj more interesting.

      4. The logic of geological and linguistic isolation of Srilanka as reason for explaining arya identity has been used by chauvinists before i find that logic quite repulsive given plethora of evidence against it.
      thank you for your engagement
      ken

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