20 July, 2024

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Buddhist Revolutionist In The Making – Kekirawe Sudassana Thero

By Vipula Wanigasekera

Dr. Vipula Wanigasekera

Religions across the globe have historically undergone significant economic and social transformations, adapting to evolving circumstances and aiding in the progress of societies. However, in Sri Lanka, Theravada Buddhism has largely remained static, entangled with political influences that benefit a select few monks while wielding considerable influence over the masses. Unlike the vibrant evolutions seen in other countries, Sri Lanka’s Theravada Buddhism has yet to undergo a transformation that aligns it with contemporary social and economic development needs.

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero

The Theravada tradition, predominant in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, and Laos, has traditionally been seen as the oldest and most orthodox form of Buddhism. In contrast, Mahayana Buddhism, practiced in countries like Tibet, China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and Mongolia, often incorporates a broader range of teachings and practices. In Sri Lanka, the Theravada tradition, while maintaining its historical roots, has failed to uplift the country from poverty and improve its social indicators significantly. It is within this stagnant backdrop that Kekirawe Sudassana Thero has emerged as a revolutionary figure, poised to reshape the Buddhist landscape in Sri Lanka.

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero has become a prominent and controversial figure, often mischaracterized by those with vested interests. Two years ago, he was labeled a supporter of the Janatha Vimukthi Peramuna (JVP), a leftist political party, after he spoke on the reasons behind societal divisions in the country. This was followed by allegations that he was attempting to introduce Mahayana Buddhist traditions into Sri Lanka. Both accusations are unfounded, serving more to discredit his revolutionary ideas than to reflect his true intentions. The politicized and traditional monks, who benefit from the current status quo, fear Sudassana Thero because he represents a challenge to their influence and a potential catalyst for change.

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero’s revolutionary potential is rooted in several key factors:

1. Extensive Knowledge of Buddhist Traditions

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero is exceptionally well-read across various Buddhist traditions, enabling him to present and elucidate complex aspects of Buddhist philosophy with ease. His profound understanding allows him to bridge the gap between ancient teachings and contemporary issues, making Buddhism relevant to today’s socio-economic context. His knowledge stands in stark contrast to many monks who have become complacent and primarily focus on maintaining traditional practices without addressing modern challenges.

2. Highlighting Socio-Economic Realities

Unlike many traditional monks who avoid confronting the harsh realities of Sri Lanka’s socio-economic conditions, Sudassana Thero does not shy away from these issues. He frequently cites economic and social indicators to highlight the challenges faced by the country. By addressing these pressing issues, he brings a pragmatic approach to Buddhism, encouraging its application as a tool for societal improvement and individual well-being.

3. Rational and Convincing Arguments

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero is known for his rational and compelling arguments. In numerous debates and discussions, his logical reasoning often leaves his opponents with little room for rebuttal. His ability to articulate his points clearly and convincingly has earned him respect and a growing following, both among the general public and within intellectual circles.

4. Rising Popularity Through Social Media

In the digital age, Kekirawe Sudassana Thero has adeptly harnessed the power of social media to spread his message. His increasing popularity on these platforms has made it difficult for traditionalists to suppress his revolutionary ideas. The reach and influence of social media have allowed him to connect with a broader audience, particularly the younger generation, who are more open to progressive ideas and change. His current interviews with multifaceted Sannasgala will fast reaching across the island

Kekirawe Sudassana Thero faces significant risks in his quest to educate the public on true Buddhist philosophy and its potential to foster socio-political development. His path is fraught with challenges, including threats to his personal safety and relentless opposition from those who benefit from maintaining the status quo. Despite these dangers, his dedication to transforming Buddhism into a force for positive change remains unwavering.

Thero’s revolutionary approach aims to adapt Buddhist philosophy to address contemporary societal needs. His vision involves leveraging Buddhist teachings to promote socio-political development, thereby improving the overall quality of life for the people. By doing so, he seeks to demonstrate that Buddhism is not merely a static tradition but a dynamic and evolving philosophy capable of guiding societies towards progress and prosperity.

While the road ahead is undoubtedly challenging, his efforts hold the promise of a Buddhist renaissance in Sri Lanka, one that aligns ancient wisdom with modern realities to create a more just and equitable society.

*The writer is former Diplomat, Head of Tourism Authority and currently a Lecturer for ECU and Meditation teacher 

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Latest comments

  • 7
    8

    During the Cold War Buddhism was Weaponized to confuse and divide National Liberation and anti-colonial movements led by socialist and communists.
    The CIA weaponized Buddhism in Southeast Asia including Sri Lanka to Divide and undermine leftist governments and Buddhist nationalist movements including the staging of the killing of SWRD Bandaranike.
    Please read the book “Cold War Monks: Buddhism and America’s Secret Strategy in Southeast Asia” (Yale University Press).
    The Weaponization of religion/s to Divide and Rule and set up foreign military bases in Sri Lanka, purportedly to fight ISIS Islamist Terrorists in the Indian Ocean region was also evident in the CIA’s ISIS claimed hybrid economic war Easter attacks in 2019. Please be aware that attempts are ongoing in the New Cold War to once again weaponize religion and Divide and Rule Sri Lanka by Western intelligence agencies and their allies.

    • 4
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      “During the Cold War Buddhism was Weaponized”
      The only place where it really mattered was Tibet. But DL made little impact.
      There have been plenty of saffron clad god-men of India who made a fast buck, but they owe it to the popularity of the Beatles and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi whose fans they became. George Harrison took a little longer than john Lennon to be cured of the addiction.
      Islam was far more useful to the US against the USSR and a less extent China.

      • 3
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        Thank you for yoir input

    • 10
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      Hello Dinuk,
      I have read Eugene Ford’s book which was his PhD Dissertation for Yale. As far as I know he hasn’t written any other books. He mainly concentrated on Thailand and said nothing on the CIA’s involvement in Sri Lanka. There is a brief mention of the Asia Foundation but nothing else.
      He did say that unlike Thailand “A parallel system of control was not in place in such countries as Sri Lanka. Partly as a result of lax supervision, monks in Sri Lanka and elsewhere were able to run amok, as it was perceived, in the political arena”.
      So where is the evidence for the CIA’s involvement in the assassination of SWRD or the Easter Bombings in Sri Lanka?
      Best regards

    • 5
      1

      Thank you for shedding more light to the article

    • 4
      4

      Dinuk,
      .
      “Please be aware that attempts are ongoing in the New Cold War to once again weaponize religion and Divide and Rule Sri Lanka by Western intelligence agencies and their allies.”
      .
      Can you enlighten us a little more on the above?
      .
      TIA

  • 13
    20

    The first thing any “revolutionary ” monk should do is to discourage people addressing him with the feudal title “hamuduruwo ” (master) or even worse “swaminvahanse”( overlord?).
    The monk is supported and fed by the laity . It should be the other way around.

    • 5
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      Yes you got a point

      • 7
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        Vipula – you’ve said: “Yes you got a point”. Do you realy think so?

    • 4
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      OC, translating the terms into English give them greater value than they actually have in practice. Regarding the monks being supported by the laity, see my comment below.

    • 14
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      “It should be the other way around.”

      Isn’t that why you go to the dana? Why should monks be required to feed lazy people?

      • 10
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        Lester the fake Buddhist,
        It is laity who feed monks at a Dana, not the other way around. Do they do it differently in the jungle?

        • 12
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          Old,

          As a Muslim, you are breaking the tenets of your religion by attending the dana. As my Pakistani friends would say, “lanat on you.”

          • 10
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            Lester the fake Buddhist,
            Anyone can go to a Dana. It bestows merit on the deceased and the alms-giver, as well as the attendees.
            But someone besotted with Ipads and AI wouldn’t know that.

            • 12
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              Old,

              True. And any tuk-tuk driver can enjoy the leftovers after the monks leave. No need to buy old chicken at Cargills.

        • 11
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          OC,
          .
          Lester recently reiterated that he is an agnostic. How do they become aware of the basics of SB rituals? about me, I was born a Sinhala-Buddhist but later converted to “True Buddhism” led by “Meditation and Dhamma”.
          Every time I am forced to read SB texts, I believe, every buddhist in Sri Lanka (our Sinhalese nation) is trying to be a scholar if they have a smartphone, laptop or any other device. This is very common to the “Sinhalese nation”.

          • 10
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            LM,
            Lester is a theoretical specialist in everything. In Sinhala, “pothe gura”. 🤣🤣🤣

  • 7
    0

    So, Sudassana Thero was branded as a JVP supporter in the past but isn’t the JVP the darling of the NPP &, largely, the public now? Is he, by any chance, a member of the NPP Bhikku Front?

    If he is ”exceptionally well-read across various Buddhist traditions, enabling him to present and elucidate complex aspects of Buddhist philosophy with ease…” & with his ‘profound understanding’ of Buddhism, he should, fist of all, reflect why he became a monk because in my understanding, monkhood is all about rejecting the material world with the objective of providing spiritual guidance to those in need, not dabble in politics. What is his ”revolutionary approach” for ”a Buddhist renaissance in Sri Lanka”? Does he reject the current role of Buddhist monks interfering in the governance of the country? Is that the ”Buddhist renaissance” he wish to inspire? If he is passionate about addressing social needs from a political perspective, he should give up robes first. Isn’t he aware that monks who truly follow Buddha’s teaching live a simple life with no attachments to the material world?

    • 3
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      Bikku can take up a realistic role in mundane terms. Giving up is not A theory in buddhist philosophy. Even a person with material success can see the reality of life.

      • 11
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        I do not agree Vipula, because ‘giving up’ is a significant theory in Buddhist teachings. Greed (thanha) in human minds causes sorrow, despair and grief which stands in the way to attain nirvana. Giving up concept leads to dissipate those feelings, clearing the pathway to be free of greed and making it easier to attain nirvana. The very purpose of alms giving (dana) is to ingrain this giving up concept in human brain and lose the tentacles of greed. If this monk tries to gather popularity or build a certain movement by doing what he does, then it is greediness as well and the very purpose of giving up theory is lost too. That will not free his mind of ‘thanha’ element and will not help to achieve nirvana. I would invite you to read more of Rerukane Chandawimala Thero’s writings on ‘dana’ and giving up.

        • 2
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          so be it. In spirituality it is beyond concepts. Please watch my youtube channel for more advanced spirituality

          • 9
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            You don’t even have the faintest idea about ‘ath hareema’ (giving up) Vipula!! Sorry I dont want to watch your tubes which I believe loaded with ‘spiritual’ crap. Gautama Buddha never preached magic but tried to teach people to emancipate from misery. For your information, there are no ‘spirits’ in Buddhism – so ‘spiritualism’ has no place in Buddhism (Fyi, there are spirits in Hinduism). Gautama Buddha did not believe in spirits but strongly focused on Mindfulness. He prescribed the way to nirvana lies on understanding Four Noble Truths and practicing the Eight-fold Path. If you understand the causes of grief, and if you are willing to give them up, then you will attain the eternal peace. As simple as that!!
            Unfortunately, the Hindu Brahmin turned Buddhist – the “almighty” Buddhagosha who came to Thambapanni in the 5th century changed all those great serene teachings. He loaded the local Buddhism with Hindu and Brahmin rituals such as spirits, pooja, revering and submission. Amisa pooja (rituals) invaded over the noble ‘prathipaththi pooja’ (principles) and blindsided Buddhists with superstition.
            What you and this monk (and hundreds of others too) preach is a continued phase of that epic Buddhagosha saga, which unfortunately has blinded 99.99% Buddhists in this island!

            • 2
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              Jit,
              .
              I can’t say I am all that well informed of the topics you have addressed above, but I however don’t think the term spirituality necessarily refers to a belief in spirits as such.
              .
              It I believe has a more general meaning that imply aspirations and endeavours that are non worldly and are pursuits of the human mind. For example meditation is a spiritual practice. Therefore mindfulness is about spirituality.
              .
              That said what do you know of the three “Mara Dootheeyo” or the agents of devil?
              .
              Were they real physical people that Buddha or Bodhisatva encountered or were they psychological phenomena?
              .
              Thank you.

              • 2
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                Ruchira, the main problem with the concept of “Spirituality” is that it involves the recognition of a feeling or sense or belief that there is something greater than myself or yourself. Which means an external superpower is taking charge of you. That was essentially dismissed by Gautama Buddha who preached that you are in charge of yourself! And your ‘mind’ is primarily what leads you! The concept of ‘mindfulness’ is the pathway to one’s nirvana which is absolutely monitored by your own mind! So there are no external powers that can lead your own thoughts defined by ‘spiritual’ That is against Buddhist teachings!
                .
                **It I believe has a more general meaning that imply aspirations and endeavours that are non worldly and are pursuits of the human mind. For example meditation is a spiritual practice. Therefore mindfulness is about spirituality**

                Not at all! Meditation is the complete opposite of ‘spirituality’!! Read my reply above.

                **That said what do you know of the three “Mara Dootheeyo” or the agents of devil? Were they real physical people that Buddha or Bodhisatva encountered or were they psychological phenomena?**

                They were just symbols of evil parts of the human mind. Raga (desire), Dvesha (anger) and Moha(delusion)

          • 6
            0

            Hello Dr Vipula Wanigasekera,
            Speaking about Buddhist Spirituality and Philisophy way back on October 31st 2023 in CT I asked a number of questions related to your Article on Buddhism being Scientific, https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/buddha-the-scientist-of-suffering-existence/
            I asked “if you examine critically what the Buddha outlined in Anattalakkhana Sutta (SN 22.59) you may come to the conclusion that it is mostly mumbo-jumbo”.
            No-one answered my questions. Buddhism is no more scientific than Shamanism, Jungism, Confucianism or any other Mystical Philosophy. The clever use of Sophistry, Casuistry and other forms of dissembling will never make them Scientific. Karma doesn’t exist and when you are dead, it’s final.
            Apart from the above, keep Religion out of Politics.
            Best regards

      • 4
        1

        Vipula

        You are off the subject. I am talking specifically about monks giving up materiel wealth. Your version of Buddhism is the typical SL interpretation where even monks with hardly any education are trying to advise the govt. & living a relatively comfortable life, contrary to Buddhist teachings. Illiterate SL Buddhists are led to believe they are the guardians of Buddhism, not knowing that Buddhism has spread from Australia to Alaska, particularly, now with the internet & thanks to dedicated foreign monks but that doesn’t mean monks should be carrying mobile phones in their daily life. Monks should ‘uplift’ the masses spiritually, not in the material sense. That is up to the govt.
        Anybody who considers him (or her) self as a ‘patriot’ can engage in politics for the betterment of the country & it’s people but for a monk, ‘patriotism’ does not apply. There is no ‘bond’ & everybody is equal.

      • 4
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        Vipula – Re: “Giving up is not A theory in buddhist philosophy.” I tend to agree with your idea that material possessions are not hindrance to see the reality of life. I thought it’s detachment that matters not giving up. Detachment is about giving up of being possessive. You could possess material things without being possessive about them? Is that right?

  • 8
    4

    Thanks Vipula for the valuable article. This is very important for many of us who are inclined to look critically at the practice of Sinhala-Buddhism today.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO5O7AwXJRA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V56GhMRtrEQ

    I have heard the discussions of the monks several times. I don’t usually respect Sri Lankan monks, but I have respected this monk for some time now.

    He has a good knowledge of Buddhist languages ​​so he can explain things using Abhidharma rather than being bound by “Jatakas or fables”. Most of the other monks seem to have no basic knowledge of the true Buddhist way of life. Bowing to the privileges given by politicians. If you look at it this way, the fake monks of the Kelaniya temple have misled the people for no reasonable reason by saying repeatedly that “they came out of the Kelaniya river after taking the stolen relics”. People join pilgrimages without thinking twice.

    • 7
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      Agree. This is why we need more of sudassana in the country

      • 11
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        The myth that “If you sacrifice a child to the Sinhala Buddhist temple, few generations of you can enter nirvana ” has taken precedence in the society.

        As many of us are aware, child abuse is common among Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka.
        I have read this many times. Some paediatric clinics have exposed the truths about rectal bleeding related information in the medical records of the child monks who were caught in this prey in temples across the country. However, this is buried under the carpet since it is still big taboo in that primitive society.
        That is why I believe, Most of them in many temples are sinners and hypocrites.

        • 11
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          cont.
          .
          Even some highly educated monks, often with doctorates, behave as medieval analysts. As I observed how the head monk of the most sacred temple in Kelaniya acted on ” teledrama” being close to a mental retarded Kapuwa – a fake relic, I thought that these fake-monks are real criminals (today this monk is naked in front of us, isn’t he?), but continues as he did nothing wrong ??????.
          https://www.adaderana.lk/news/78204/ven-kollupitiye-mahinda-sangharakkhitha-thero-appointed-new-chancellor-of-kelaniya-university

          What happened to their human shame?

          Do you think that Reverend Kollupitiye Mahinda did not know about those false stories? These were undoubtedly caculated crimes.

          Their reward was getting chancellor positions to two universities.
          https://cmb.ac.lk/chancellorCan the people forgive criminal politics of Rajapaksas ?
          Muruthettuwa Palhora became the Chancellor of chancellor of UOC. To me, Abhayaramaya where Rajapaksas mobilised to their politics is similar to Rapebahn in Hamburg, Germany.

          Tbc

          • 9
            0

            Cont.
            I don’t invite “monks” to celebrate the death annivesary of our parents today like then. I have removed it from my own principles. Today I respect only the learned and honorable Lords.
            .
            The estranged monk of Kiribathgoda (Gnanananda Thero of Kiribathgoda
            A Sri Lankan monk who is misleading people from dawn to dusk, insisting that our health problems are entirely based on “demons”.https://mahamevnawa.lk/
            Unfortunately, poor elderly mothers easily fall for the easy tricks played on them. They spend their savings to do any kind of events the monk has been introducing them. I think today’s crafty religious devices have become opiates.
            As society becomes overrun with idiots, the space for them to breed and destroy the rest grows exponentially. All these happened not within a few months but on long run.

            Such myths existed those days when people were not aware of microbiology, biochemistry or related sciences, but today people’s health is being shaped hour by hour with the blessings of new discoveries and inventions in the field of medicine and psychology.
            Today we know that we are more microbes than humans.

            There are millions of microbes inside and outside our body..

  • 8
    0

    ‘In Sri Lanka, the Theravada tradition, while maintaining its historical roots, has failed to uplift the country from poverty and improve its social indicators significantly. ‘
    .
    It is not the job of the Sangha to do anything like this. This monk is ignoring the Vinaya, described by the Buddha as ‘the lifeblood of the Teaching’ (Vinayo sasanassa ayu). In the Vinaya rules, monks are forbidden from any lay activity including politics, social activism and attending parades, let alone ‘uplifting the country’. It may well be that traditionally monks have taken part in this sort of thing, but that is no excuse for continuing it.
    .
    The Sangha are not meant to be social workers. They are not even a priesthood. The Sangha is actually meant to be a group of alms mendicants embedded in the lay community, dependent on them for its existence, and returning the favour by teaching (when asked) and by leading an exemplary life that leads to liberation. In Sri Lanka only a few hundred monks live such lives. That is the real tragedy of Buddhism in this country.

    • 2
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      Thats naturally your version. In that case why did Buddha preached singalovada, parabava, wasala, mangala sutras. To uplift people economicaly and spcially. Besides a monk can playan effective role in mundane terms to help people from alchoholism, corruption etc which in turn will bring people out of poverty. We had a committee of sangha advising then president gotabaya rajapaksa. Not a word on corruption was discussed. Country must economically sustain itself even to feed monks. Today its a business serving politics hence the need for personalities like Sudassana thero as most laymen have become either slaves or stooges to politicians

      • 6
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        Vipula,
        .
        “Not a word on corruption was discussed. Country must economically sustain itself even to feed monks.”

        Vipula, I as one in late 50ties, in my childhood ((mid-seventies to late-eighties) ), I thought that good monks would act like psychologists to their contributors, whatever the problem it arose.
        In fact, I knew good examples where they really helped people. Unfortuatnely for today, temple monks are seen as parasites that entered to temples because of their hidden propensities.
        .
        I believe today that Sri Lankan monks and their “general knowledge” have become very questionable over time.

        Most of them do not respect any discipline.

        In recent ast, we could see how Ghanasara led the violent monks on the television screen. We also saw, politicians and media Fraudsters supported crimes committed by SINHALA BUDDHIST monks in public.

      • 3
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        Hello Dr Vipula,
        “We had a committee of sangha advising then president gotabaya rajapaksa.”
        So you admit it, you’re responsible for the mess Gotabaya got us into?
        Best regards

  • 7
    0

    Vipula the suttas you mention were preached for the benefit of laymen. I don’t deny that socially active monks can do an enormous amount of good for the people and the country. But by so doing they are sacrificing the very thing that they ordained for in the first place i.e. liberation from samsara. Nobody awakens to Nibbana by being socially active.

    • 2
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      Today , spiritualty is discussed at different level Paul. I appreciate your feedback regardless

      • 12
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        Vipula,

        I agree with your statement: “spiritualty is discussed at different levels.” Monks should have access to technology (smartphone, ipod, social media, etc.) to stay in touch with current developments. Particularly if they want to connect to the younger generation. They can increase their knowledge as well, by having access to material written in Pali & Sanskrit. Regarding politics, in the past, monks advised kings. Advising politicians is not a big deal.

        • 7
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          Lester

          I frequently visit Amaravati temple in UK & offer dana in memory of my parents. It was initiated primarily by an American monk, Ven Sumedho, & originally funded by the Thai govt. back in the late 70s. Ven Sumedo can be attributed for introducing Buddhism to wider UK, the weekly sermons, meditation class & ‘retreats’ being oversubscribed by even non Buddhists. The monks at Amaravati are mostly European who have embraced Buddhism after a deep study on the subject. They do not handle money & live a simple life with no material passions. I have not come across a SL monk, apart from a nun, in all my time associated with Amaravati. In fact, some years ago, a SL monk who insisted on having a radio was asked leave the temple.
          Monks at Amaravati are educated with successful careers before monkhood & are able to relate Buddhist teachings in the current context, which is why the ‘Dhamma days’ are so popular with even non Buddhists. That is what I expect from Buddhist monks, not dabbling in politics in the pretext of uplifting the poor or advising on the governance of the country & travelling in duty free SUVs.

          • 10
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            Raj-UK,

            Buddhism (and Hinduism) for many Westerners is just another exotic trend. They might understand a few things like meditation or yoga, but the cultural significance is elusive. Buddhism has been around in Asian countries for thousands of years, and the impact on corresponding cultures is obvious. It’s unfortunate that anyone would go to Europe for a serious study of Buddhism. It is equivalent to visiting China to study Judaism.

            • 3
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              Lester
              Maybe rock & pop stars in the 70s who ammased enormous wealth overnight found something missing & turned to the ‘mystic’ East for solace & answers from their world of drugs & hedonistic living but that is not the case any more, the conduct of militant & racist Buddhist monks of Myanmar & Sri Lanka being ample evidence. In fact, it is Tibetan Buddhism & the Dalai Lama that most Westerners associated Buddhism with now. Westerners need not come to Asia anymore, the internet provides the opportunity to ‘enlighten’ themselves by sermons from Ven Sumedho & others without leaving the home. In UK, the monks at Amaravarti are educated & have access to 21st century technology (provided by the trustees of the temple) & many non Buddhist, curious about Buddhist teachings are able to visit the 2 monasteries to ask questions directly. In my opinion, SL temples are way behind, the congregation being social than ‘spiritual’. Western monks take up monkhood after studying Buddhism & found answers to their questions unlike SL monks who are Buddhist from birth.
              Cont.

              • 1
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                Cont
                A Buddhist monk is expected to provide solace & ‘inner peace’, guided by Buddha’s teachings, to a trouble mind & that can be done without political involvement & fanfare. The head monk in my temple back in SL may not be university educated but in his simple way, he does exactly that & I respect such monks. If Kekirawe Sudassana Thero wants to ‘foster socio-political development’ he should do the good work after giving up the robe.

                • 8
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                  Raj UK,

                  Fair points, but the Internet is not a substitute for culture. Meditating in a temple or forest in Anuradhapura is very different from meditating across the street from Goldman Sachs in London. Environment conditions the mind. Also, in London, you don’t have Poya days or Buddha statues all about. These are common in East Asia, including Japan and Korea. In Korea, on Buddha’s birthday (national holiday), thousands of people visit the monasteries for a family outing, even if the family is not Buddhist. And then something like an alms-giving or pirith is very natural in Asia. In London, it is an exotic event. Lastly, your European monk friends in London probably don’t speak Pali or Sanskrit.

            • 4
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              “Buddhism has been around in Asian countries for thousands of years, and the impact on corresponding cultures is obvious.”
              So, what is the religion you think, hasn’t been around in Asian countries for thousands of years, and the impact on corresponding cultures is obvious.
              Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, Islam, Saivism??? Pick your take? All have been, with no difference whatsoever 2000 to 3500 years!

        • 7
          2

          Lester,
          .
          What does it mean to call someone a buddhist monk?

          A monk is a man who has dedicated his life to religion, partly by giving up some aspects of regular, worldly life. Many monks live together in a religious community. To a greater or lesser extent, a monk has chosen to leave society and devote his life to prayer and service.

          But the life of a Sri Lankan monk is quite different. They define things in terms of “V8 and other favorites”.

          What is a monk in Buddhism?
          Bhikku | Buddhist Monasticism, History & Practices | Britannica
          monk, man who separates himself from society and lives either alone (a hermit or anchorite) or in an organized community in order to devote himself full time to religious life.
          .

          • 10
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            Leela,

            This is what Buddha told a Brahmin once: “A wise person, when he is in the midst of a doctrine, is not simply content with hearsay and agreement, but he personally attains to the truth by penetrating the doctrine with wisdom.” It means true understanding and enlightenment only come from personal experience and verification. So if a monk is interested in atoms, he should study atomic physics, even at university level. Similarly, human emotions – study psychology. If you know about පඤ්ච නීවරණ, doubt is in that category. A mind that is not clear will never reach Enlightenment. To give you one example, Western influence is pervasive in Sri Lanka today. Whether through the Internet or contact with foreigners via tourism. Western psychology is different from Buddhist psychology. This monk studied psychology at the level of a master’s degree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvi-VbpJGoQ. He was able to understand the differences (East/West) and help people overcome their mental problems.

            • 1
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              Hello Lester,
              Of the 5 (pancha nivarana) number 5 (vicikicca) is in contradiction to what the Buddha said about not taking the word of those in authority at face value.
              It’s like Maslow’s 7 levels of Comfort and his Hierarchy of Needs (5). Why not 10 or 4? These Pop Psychologists pick things out of the air and make a pseudo-scientific law out of them. Buddhism is no different.
              “A mind that is not clear will never reach Enlightenment”. So what is this Enlightenment that we are supposed to reach?
              Try applying Karl Popper’s approach to the vast majority of Religious tenets and beliefs and see how far you get. Buddhist ideas about Nirvana and Karma cannot be “falsified” and according to Popper are not Scientific.
              “For the ordinary householder, Nibbana is a goal to be achieved through a gradual process of evolution extending over many lives, and therefore until he achieves that sublime state at some future date he continues to perform these acts [punna – pin] in order to lead a happy life. All merit-generating rituals are performed mainly with this end in view” The Catholic “Indulgences” were similar.
              Best regards

            • 2
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              Also, self-proclaimed experts such, ‘Athana, Methana, Hithana, Nattana, Ratana’s advised all Senior most Politicians that Dr Shahab or whatever his name was – the Muslim Gynecologist at Wayamba NH has successfully crimped the Fallopian Tubes of Buddhist women, who underwent C- section surgery during their pregnancy, as if he was a first-hand eye-witness to such acts and went on a FAST in the park opposite the Hospital until the doctor was suspended from work!!?? He also claimed hundreds of such women near 400+ made them complain to Police and Health authorities!!?? The fact is more than 2/3rd of such complainants became childbearing and have successfully given birth to healthy children within the next 2 years!!?? Did we get accountability for misdemeanour!!?? ALAS, he wouldn’t have been enlightened as to the vicissitudes encountered by Men and betrothed women in Populating this world with Children!!?? He is pardoned for the false belief pursued by him and insult, inuendo caused to the learned Medic and also to Muslim community at large!! We as Sri Lankans were the Butt-end of that Joke!! The greatest relief was that he was following the Theravada Buddhist ‘EDICT of CELIBACY’, undoubtedly to the letter, very comforting indeed
              (TBC)

            • 2
              7

              (Part 2/2)
              – Amidst stories to the contrary in the community that some don’t – and we salute him!!?? OVERLOOK HIS IGNORANCE ON THE MATTER OF MARRIED LIFE AND PROGENY!!!??? THEREFORE, deserves due MERIT!!??
              The greatest relief was that is AMPLY EVIDENT by these INCIDENT is that he was strictly following the Theravada Buddhist EDICT of CELIBACY, undoubtedly to the letter, the reason he made that ERROR OF JUDGEMENT AND THEREFORE, excused for the “ACT OF MISDEMEANOUR”, in the LIGHT OF HIS UPHOLDING THE THERAVADA BUDDHIST PRACTICE of “CELIBACY TO THE LETTER”, which is ‘very comforting indeed in this stone age’ – amidst stories floating to the contrary within the community that some Robbed do not follow, strictly!!??? We salute him resolutely for his upstanding of Buddhist Values, with great Esteem which caused, IGNORANCE ON THE “MATTER OF MARRIED LIFE AND PROGENY”, which he had no OPPORTUNITY AT ALL!!!???
              THEREFORE, deserves DUE MERIT FOR FOLLOWING THE THERAVADA BUDDHIST EDICT to the letter!!??
              WE salute profusely FOR HIS UPSTANDING of values!?
              “Buddham Saranang Gachchami”!!??

        • 5
          6

          Yes, see effect of it very well – 2020 to 03/2022!!?? Many ‘Athana, Methana, Hithana, Nattana, Ratana’s advised all Senior most Politician – Agriculture, Soil-Mechanics, Fertilisers, Ground Water, Gas and fuel distribution, Pardoning of Convicted Criminals, Murderers and Rapists – Executive presidents!!?? Adverse results were all seen by us!!?? Led to Aragalaya, chasing the “6.9 million elected” through “back-doors of Janadhipathi Mandhiraya” to evacuate, escape, searching Asylum in Asian countries! Poor Gota, whom I would say wasn’t corrupt as an exception to the NORM in Sri Lankan Leadership since Independence!!?? Made him the “scape goat and butt-end of Jokes”!!??
          Least but not last, deprivation, Starvation that followed, by their fertiliser and agricultural policy??? NO RICE to eat?? Bankruptcy!!??
          Because they went the Pirivena and became Buddhist Monks, they cannot become KNOW-ALLS!!!?? That occurrence in 2020 to 2022 is the best process of educating, those who claim the Monks advised the Kings has any MERIT!? Because we don’t know, HOW MUCH of that advice was accepted and used by the Kings/Rulers!? We could only assume or take what is written in Mahavamsa or Buddhist Chronicles or Scripts, which in the main done by the clergy!? “ALL MYTHS ALL AROUND”!?

          • 2
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            Mahila,
            You figure Glyphosate Ratana has achieved enlightenment even now?

  • 4
    4

    *iPod

    • 7
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      Hello Lester,
      “Regarding politics, in the past, monks advised kings”. Tell that to Thomas Becket and King Henry II.
      And by the way, you have to keep up with Technology, the last Apple iPod was discontinued in 2022 – the iPad however is still going strong.
      Best regards

      • 7
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        LS
        As usual our Lester tells only half the story.Here is the rest:
        “During the time of Rajasinha I the chief monks of Sitawaka and Kandy helped their relations to ferment rebellion to thwart Rajasinha’s siege of Colombo, to expel the Portuguese and win back Sinhalese independence. Rajasinha was furious and had them executed mercilessly.
        King Kirti Sri Rajasinha punished monks who helped the conspirators who planned to kill him in the Malwatte Temple at Kandy. Sri Wickrema Rajasinha executed Paranatala Thero found guilty of treason.”
        “https://www.infolanka.com/org/srilanka/hist/83.htm”

      • 12
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        Hello LankaScot,

        Apple products have a very long use life. A lot of “upgrades” are just cosmetic. With iPod touch, you can still listen to music, read books, do podcasts, use Airpods, etc. Good for young children too. Those who do “creative work” such as video editing are better of with a MacBook than an iPad. The iPad has a better battery life & larger screen size than the iPod, but most people won’t notice the former. If you have a MacBook, you don’t need an iPad. Apple marketing is designed to lure people into their “ecosystem.”

        • 11
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          LankaScot,

          The situation is dire in the UK. Children are being brainwashed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHWXRTHbCAc. Poor sod has to fight on his own. This would never happen in S. Lanka. The parents would show up with a monk and the principle/teachers would resign.

          • 7
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            Lester, Thank the Lord that our schools don’t have principles!

            • 6
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              Nathan,
              Good catch.😄

            • 11
              6

              Nathan,

              Didn’t the LTTE forcibly recruit children from families? That is what you call a culture/society in moral decay, not some monk driving a car.

          • 4
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            Hello Lester,
            Every year in the UK there were Christmas shows called Pantomimes like e.g. Jack and the Beanstalk, Aladdin, Cinderella and many more. All of them had leading Characters, with men dressed as women. Do you think we were all being “Groomed”?
            My Grandmother warned me at an early age to beware of Religious Men in Garb. She said that if any Priests or Ministers made any advances (she was quite specific as to what she meant) that I should tell her or my mother and they would sort them out. My Grandmother didn’t discriminate, she told my sisters the same thing.
            Our Local Vegetable Seller that used to come round our streets with his Horse and Cart was very effeminate and obviously “Gay” (we used different words back then). The local parents were quite friendly towards him, because they knew he had no interest in Children. Being gay does not necessarily make you a Paedophile.
            Best regards

            • 10
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              Hello LankaScot,

              I don’t think you quite understand how the LGBTQ agenda is being pushed on the unsuspecting, particularly young children. This is not the effort of a single vegetable seller, but the government itself, backed by powerful donors such as George Soros. Individuals are free to choose their sexuality as they please. However, to try to normalize the practice by way of the school curriculum – this is another level of indoctrination. It is unprecedented.

              • 6
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                One who has been given colonic irrigation by an Indian can never forget the experience . So, he is obsessed with what happens to other people’s children.

        • 1
          0

          Hello Lester,
          I haven’t ever bought an Apple product since they stopped IT Technicians from repairing their products back in about the time of the Apple II and the disaster called the Apple III.
          Apple products appeal to an elite mentality and are pushed towards those in the Creative Professions. Apple took a long time to enable networking on their Computers which is why you see Dell and HP workstations in the vast majority of Corporate Networks. And also this – “One of the main advantages of PC workstations is the ability to upgrade components as technology advances. But with the new Mac Pro, you’re essentially stuck with what you buy. The Mac Pro does not support GPU upgrades, limiting the machine’s future-proofing”
          When I asked my sister’s granddaughter a couple of years ago, what were the advantages of her iPhone she replied snobbishly “I can do mash-ups”. When I showed her my Samsung Galaxy Note 20 doing the same, silence. I showed her Audacity and Flowblade on my Linux PC for editing Videos and Music etc. (a 24″ screen makes things much easier). The Apple crowd (Cult) have a limited view of what’s outside their world.
          Best regards

          • 4
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            Hello LankaScot,

            The dominance of Dell and HP workstations in corporate networks is more due to other factors, e.g cost, compatibility with enterprise software, and historical market positioning, rather than a delay by Apple in enabling networking on their computers. In fact, Apple has supported networking features since the early days of macOS (previously Mac OS X) and even earlier with classic Mac OS. Regarding the MacPro, it allows It supports GPU upgrades through its PCIe slots.
            I agree that Apple has a cult following.

            • 2
              0

              Hello Lester,
              I networked many businesses back in the late 80s and early 90s using Co-axial Cable and Novell Netware. Back in those days Certified Novell Engineers drove Porches (not me😢) and looked with disdain at Microsoft. Then came NT and Novell lost out big time. Apple did have early networking functionality but it was abysmal. I know because I installed a Microsoft NT system in a large Newspaper company in North Wales (early 90s) that used Apples for their Desktop Publishing (QuarkXPress) but had great difficulty networking them or connecting to the NT Servers. As for the GPU Upgrade “The GPU is integrated into the M2 Ultra chip and doesn’t support additional graphics processors such as PCIe graphics cards or MPX modules”.
              Over many years I learned that Salesmen often tell their Clients “yes that is simple on our system” only to find later on that it either can’t be done or involves more expensive purchases. Many times I have said to Engineers “show me how to do that” when they say it is simple. After they have tried and failed, do we find out that they have never tried it for themselves. As they say “the proof of the pudding….”
              Best regards

  • 0
    0

    Buddha taught in Pali, and Jesus is believed to have spoken Aramaic, but these languages are either not widely practiced today or are only spoken by small, isolated groups. On the other hand, Allah is believed to communicate in Arabic, and according to Islamic beliefs, he can read minds and hear words. Yet, followers still pray in Arabic rather than their own languages. Similarly, many forms of Hindu gods do not specify a particular language. However, people following the faith often argue over who is superior between Shiva and Vishnu, or attribute linguistic identities to gods, such as Murugan being considered a Tamil god.

    What all of these examples tell us is that the spiritual leaders of their times were trying to convey the knowledge required to understand ourselves and the purpose of our existence on this planet. Unfortunately, due to the maturity of the followers not being equal to that of their preachers, followers end up giving their own interpretations to the wisdom imparted. Consequently, we end up fighting to make sense of these teachings, forgetting their original purpose.

    What is required is not the pathway, teaching, or determining which spiritual leader is the best. All you need is whatever way works for you to understand, at some point in your life, the very purpose of your existence. Look within yourself rather than everywhere else.

    • 2
      0

      Hello Dayan,
      There is no purpose. If you have evidence please show everyone on Earth.
      Best regards

      • 0
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        The Brahmin would make stronger claims about Hindu sacred texts and Sanskrit.
        Where does all of this get us to?

    • 0
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      Is Arabic an unchanged language?

  • 14
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    Dear Vipula –
    .
    I haven’t been here for too long but during my brief stay I’ve read few of your essays published addressing Buddhist themes.
    .
    Have you written anything on the caste factor in Buddhism in Sri Lanka – a favourite topic among some of the participants here in the comments section?
    .
    Also what are your views on ‘Mindfulness’ a concept that is essentially rooted in Buddhism, but is increasingly becoming popular in many other domains with no religiosity attached to it?
    .
    TIA

  • 1
    0

    “… So, your majesty, it is the business of the princes of this earth to know all about elephants, horses, chariots, bows, edicts and seals, to be well versed in the textbooks of statecraft, in its tradition and custom, and to lead people into battle…..the Tathagata therefore urged his disciples to devote themselves to their own work, and not that of others.”
    .
    Nagasena to Menander, Greek king of Bactria..from the Milindapanha, Khuddaka Nikaya

  • 13
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    Hello LankaScot,

    Looking at an earlier post, you stated that Sigiriya does not show evidence of advanced hydrology (your exact words). Unlike OC, I don’t put words into people’s mouths or misquote them.

    Either this is a misunderstanding or there is a strong lack of knowledge here. Or else you are not in fact who you claim to be, but just another “Ddian”. Leaving that aside, there are actually numerous research papers that go into detail about the hydraulic and other engineering aspects of Sigiriya. Here is one such paper from the Netherlands:

    “The flow of water in the serpentine stream is canalized into a pressure chamber
    to activate the fountains. The water that sparkled from these fountains flows westwards
    and cascades into an elongated pond. The large bathing pools of the four-quartered
    feature fed by a system of underground conduits are located on a lower level to that of
    the elongated pond. The excess and flushed water from these pools then finds its way
    into the inner moat (figure 5.71). These hydraulic elements, which create audio and
    visual effects, therefore give water a different form and movement within the axial zone.”

    https://journals.open.tudelft.nl/abe/article/view/cooray/pdf

    • 5
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      “Or else you are not in fact who you claim to be, “
      Look who’s talking 🤣🤣

      • 5
        12

        Plus, why hide at the bottom of the page? To get the last word in, obviously. So immature.
        More on “advanced hydrology”:
        “Beginning around 2000 BC, the Minoans and then the Mycenaeans developed incredibly advanced techniques for water supply, water transportation, drainage, storm water and sewage removal, flood protection, and irrigation. By the Hellenistic era, the Greeks had invented easy-to-use devices like the water wheel and the force pump – an instrument that enabled the user to raise water from the ground and was used by Rome’s fire brigades.’
        Using such systems 2500 years later is hardly “advanced”, is it?

    • 6
      1

      Hello Lester,
      Before I comment on the Interesting Article/Dissertation please explain “Or else you are not in fact who you claim to be, but just another “Ddian”.
      1 Who do I claim to be?
      2 Who do you think I am?
      Best regards

      • 3
        1

        Hello Lester,
        I have read the Article and as I said it is very educational and interesting. Basically what the Author is looking at is the overall meaning of the Landscape and Buildings in and around Sigiriya. The part that is interesting and applicable to your comments mainly concerns the Landscaped Water Gardens at the foot of the Hill. Yes they are intricate and well planned, but I can see no evidence of advanced Hydrology. From yourLink –
        “Ellepola (1990:183)
        The water distribution through the complex was caused by gravity action, which created a gently flow into the successively lower areas where the supply was required”.
        Even the Fountains were Gravity fed from what were called “Pressure Chambers” (basically Storage tanks to create a “head” to feed the fountains)
        Aside from that in my original Comment I was referring to the Bathing Pool on the Summit. I saw the rock cut channels that funneled the water down the sides of the Cliff face but no evidence of pumps, lead pipes or valves (which I would consider Advanced). Have a look at what the Romans did more than 500 years before Sigiriya – https://books.openedition.org/pcjb/405?lang=en
        Best regards

        • 5
          10

          LS,
          Watch this page tomorrow. Comments end, and Lester will be up at 2 a.m to get in a last word to which you can’t reply. He’s so childishly predictable, behind the faux-educated verbiage. 🤣🤣

      • 5
        10

        LS,
        “Who do I claim to be?”
        You’ll have to wait until he gets himself drunk tonight.

  • 8
    3

    Hello LankaScot,

    “but no evidence of pumps, lead pipes or valves”

    You cannot obtain a continuous water flow at an elevation of 180 m without some kind of pump mechanism. Without valves and some kind of drainage system, the pool would have been flooded during the rainy season.

    • 4
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      Some people forget that Sigiriya was built by an Indian contractor. The locals were still in the Stone Age.

      • 10
        4

        “Some people forget that Sigiriya was built by an Indian contractor.”

        The “true Buddhists” have spoken. This guy doesn’t want to use the title “Hamuduruwo”, but he will bend wider than Kim Kardashian at the dana for extra protein.

      • 1
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        OC, it never been built by anyone not even Kashyapa. All he done is re-purpose the rock and built only his palace on top the rock and decorated with colourful frescoes. He would have only built the enomerous lion only. Therefore, probably no need for Indian Contractors. The stone age people good enough to deal with these stones :)

        • 3
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          Dayan,
          That was just bait for the jungle economist, you know who. 🤣🤣
          The fake “Sinhala Buddhist. “

        • 0
          0

          Hello Dayan,
          Despite my comments to Lester about the lack of Advanced Hydrology, the building work and Water Garden Features are very impressive. I am sure that the famous English Landscape Gardener Capability Brown (mid 1700s) would have been impressed. The evidence is that the Buildings on the Summit were made of wood, however the Terraces, Pools and staircase were either stone or brick and would have to be hauled up to the top. Having a staircase that went up the sheer cliff face was impressive on its own. The Lion’s Paws carved from the rock are also very impressive and very labour intensive.
          The remains of a Roman Town in Wroxeter, Shropshire have been excavated mostly in the 20th Century. It was one of the largest Cities/Towns outside of London. I visited it many times whilst I lived in Shropshire. I couldn’t believe how similar the stone work in Sigiriya was to Viriconium (Wroxeter). The Roman Town even had underfloor heating (not necessary in Sri Lanka).
          Best regards

        • 9
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          Dayan,

          Unfortunately, many Tamils like OC believe Sigiriya was built by South Indians and not any other group, e.g. Sinhalese. That is their genuine belief. People don’t make such statements unless they have a strong conviction.

          • 9
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            These jokers are landless and stateless. After losing the fake freedom struggle, they are bashing Sri Lanka and especially SB’s 24/7. It’s comedic to watch. Their average net worth is probably less than $100 USD. For some reason, they think India (biggest beggar nation in the world) and RSS Hindutva fanatic Modi can give them a fake state.

            • 9
              4

              “Old Codger” belongs to the above category.

              • 4
                9

                ““Old Codger” belongs to the above category.”
                There are those who are so insecure that they stay up all night giving themselves upvotes.
                There are those who stay up all night downvoting others.
                There are those who claim not to be racist, but blame all Muslims for the 2019 attacks.
                There those who claim expertise in meditation, but cannot control their language.
                Old Codger is glad he is none of the above categories.

            • 2
              9

              Bashing SB is a no-brainer He does it himself. 😄

            • 2
              9

              “Their average net worth is probably less than $100 USD.”
              “They spent millions of USD per month on the war”
              At the very least, learn to be consistent.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
              PS. Why does a nut who claims to live in UK do his sums in USD?

              • 1
                9

                BECAUSE HE IS “MORE SRI LANKAN” – OFFICIAL CURRENCY OF EXCHANGE IS USD!!! BRITAIN IS POUND STG!!! SIMPLE WATSON!!??

    • 2
      1

      Hello Lester,
      After reading a number of Archaeological Reports and Descriptions I reckon that much more investigation is needed. The Rock (Natural Formation) was in use before Kasyapa, however there hasn’t been much Published about this. The Water Features (Pools etc.) on the summit are all Gravity fed and the pools were dependent on Rainwater to fill them.
      To pump water up a distance of 180m (590 feet) requires pipes capable of withstanding a pressure of around 300 psi (Mains water can be from 30 to 80 psi) or a staged system with storage tanks, at intervals, all the way to the summit. There is no evidence of either.
      An overspill system dealt with excess rain, hence the rock cut channels which possibly fed into the Tank system at the foot of the Rock, however the Reports make no mention of exactly where the rock cut channels led to..
      The lower Water Gardens at the foot of the rock were NOT fed from the rock above but came from the Sigiriya Wewa and Tank adjacent to the rock. There is also evidence of some Terracotta channels, but no details in the Reports. Most of the Excavations and Reports were overseen by Professor Senake Bandaranayake.
      Best regards

  • 9
    3

    Hello LankaScot,

    I agree with your figures regarding the pressure. My calculations come to about 256 psi.

    P=1000 kg/m3×9.81 m/s2×180 m
    P=1,765,800 Pa
    P=1,765.8 kPa
    P≈256 psi

    “or a staged system with storage tanks, at intervals, all the way to the summit.”

    There are cisterns at the top of the summit and terracota pipes at the base of the rock formation. We know these pipes were not used merely for decorative purposes, since we can actually see pools filled with water elsewhere at Sigiriya. In fact, the pool at the top is also filled with water:

    https://srilankainstatours.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Sigiriya-Rock-Pool-696×364.jpg.webp

    According to the guides there, the pool at the top is always full, even during the dry season. The pool at the summit does not contain just rainwater. If it was just rainwater, the water would dry up during the hottest parts of the summer. The primary source of water comes from natural springs.

    • 9
      3

      *not full, but the pool at the top always contains at least some water

      • 4
        9

        “1 Who do I claim to be?
        2 Who do you think I am?
        Those are the questions.

    • 4
      9

      ” If it was just rainwater, the water would dry up during the hottest parts of the summer”
      Consider the other option: aliens installed pumps inside the rock. They had nice knockers too, as seen in the frescoes.

    • 2
      1

      Hello Lester,
      There are no springs at the top of Sigiriya a Syenite granite rock. If you know different show me the location and I will go and look.
      ” since we can actually see pools filled with water elsewhere at Sigiriya”.
      You didn’t read what I said “The lower Water Gardens at the foot of the rock were NOT fed from the rock above but came from the Sigiriya Wewa and Tank adjacent to the rock”
      As for the pressure as a “rule of thumb” we used 1/2 psi per foot so 600 ft approx = around 300 psi
      Best regards

    • 4
      9

      Lester,
      ……………..“Pressure of around 300 psi” says Lanka Scott!!??
      (Lester’s)
      “My calculations come to about 256 psi.
      P=1000 kg/m3×9.81 m/s2×180 m
      P=1,765,800 Pa
      P=1,765.8 kPa
      P≈256 psi”
      You say after complicated using ‘QUANTUM PHYSICS LIKE’ calculations; you have arrived at a 4 PSI difference!!!??? Great!!??
      SUCH GREATNESS demands that this scenario must progress from “WITHIN THE CAVENDISH LABORATORY AT UNIVERSITY OF CAMBRIDGE”, the only suitable venue to diffuse your innate knowledge on the matter and also for us ‘SIMPLETONS’, to fully absorb the evidence, understand how advanced our fore-fathers were 1000s of years ago!!?? Though exceptions are RECENT IMPORTS, who cannot under any circumstances claim their ‘Fore-Fathers’ being involved in such feat; Would have been born elsewhere – not in Sigiriya or 200-300 Kms from that vicinity and beyond!!?? ‘HOO KIYANA DURA’!!?? NO. NOT AT ALL!!??

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