26 May, 2022

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Does NATO’s Eastward Expansion Threaten Russia?

By Kumar David –

Prof. Kumar David

My question in the title is not framed in relation to Putin, his KGB-inherited thinking or his authoritarian mould; it is framed in relation to the ordinary Russian citizen. The answer is a resounding YES; Russians feel threatened and there are good and justified historical reasons. I have no access to special news sources in the country but the sense I get from what all the world’s news-networks including Western sources is that Russian’s pro or anti-Putin fear eastward expansion of NATO; they perceive it as a threat. There are three reasons.

Three, four if you include WW1, European invasions inflicted cataclysmic suffering on the Russian people; a Swedish invasion in 1708-09, occupation of European Russia by Napoleon’s Grand Army and occupation of Moscow in 1812 and Hitler’s invasion and destruction of Russia from its Western border all the way to the gates of Leningrad and Stalingrad. The invasion by Charles XII of Sweden during the Great Northern War, a monarchical contest between the sovereigns of Russia, Poland, and Denmark in 1707-09 was against Peter the Great’s Russia. It began in January 1708 and ended with the Charles’ defeat at the Battle of Poltava in July 1709. Russia carried out its famed “scorched earth policy” used again against the Grand Army and the Wehrmacht, one and two centuries later, respectively at enormous cost. In WW2 the USSR lost 20 million men and women, more than all other combatants in the European theatre combined and suffered catastrophic devastation.

Shrinking USSR brings Russia’s borders into the home

Nothing brings all Russians together more than the Great Patriotic War. Are the Russian people (forget Peter, Alexander I, Stalin and Putin) willing to mobilise against NATO’s eastward creep? I think yes. I think under no condition will the Russian people allow NATO to reach its Ukrainian border. If Ukraine is draw into NATO the Russian response will be strong and rightly so. Remember how Kennedy and the US, kicking and screaming, brought the world to the brink of war in 1962? Positioning nuclear missiles in Cuba it seemed was too close to the American mainland? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The end of the USSR shrank Russia’s European border with the loss of the Ukraine, Belarus and tiny Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. The really frightening thing for any Russian is the vast grassland plain, through Belarus and northern Ukraine right into the heart of Russian influence, to Moscow and Petersburg. It’s the road that Charles XII, Napoleon and Hitler’s armies trod. No Russian leader can compromise on this and survive public outrage. If Putin allows NATO to approach Russia’s borders on such a scale it will be curtains for him at home.

There are two other more complex reasons. A stable but democratic Ukraine whether capitalist, social democratic or a member of the EU (later on) will be uncomfortable for a Russian autocrat. This for Putin is good reason to oppose the Ukraine getting too friendly with the West. A democratic Ukraine will inspire internal protest against Russia’s Putin-autocracy. Note that Russia is bordered in Central Asia, Europe, Mongolia and China overwhelmingly by de facto authoritarian polities. And an even worse scenario; what if Ukraine were to sprout a dangerous, reactionary right-extremist state like Hungary today? It will create border tension and instability since such a Ukraine can be adventurous as it will enjoy the “an attack on one is an attack on all” NATO guarantee.

The third problem is the ethnic Russian and pro-Russian minorities who live in the border region between Russia and the Ukraine – the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces, portions of which are already held by separatists demanding autonomy or independence. Do they have a right to self-determination? A Ukraine with a NATO guarantee behind it will never allow it. If Russia permits the Ukraine to join NATO it will be seen as a betrayal by the separatists who currently enjoy substantial Russian support.

By far the status quo is the best; let sleeping dogs lie; keep the Ukraine out of NATO but otherwise let it do as it wishes. Just like keep Sri Lanka out of any defence pact with the QUAD, China or India; nonalignment has worked best. Clearly the Europeans and America understands that Russia cannot allow NATO to creep up to the Russian border, but the nigger in the woodpile is the desire of the present regime in Kiev to apply for NATO membership. The members of NATO can’t say “no” because that would appear to giving Russia and Putin a veto over NATO policy; they are in a quandary. Putin seems to be toying with a palace coup in Kiev toppling President Volodymyr Zelensky and replacing him by Yevheniy Murayev, Mykola Azarov or Andriy Kluyev, all linked to the former pro-Russian president Viktor Yanukovych. NATO cannot classify this as an act of invasion but no one seems to know what will happen next.

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Latest comments

  • 5
    14

    The Finns were smart not to join NATO, but the Ukraine was not. It makes sense for Ukraine to follow Finland’s example. Ukraine has paid a high price for its miscalculations. I would add that the Tamils also made a similar mistake. The humiliation and defeat suffered by the Tamils were a result of another miscalculation. Creating a conflict on the island only helped one cause. It created a diversion so that an international secret would remain hidden forever. Conflict was a distraction to hide the hidden history of the Buddha. Tamils should reverse fortunes by doing the opposite. They should unravel the island history of Buddha. While it will be challenging in the short-term, it will bring long-term benefits to the entire Tamil culture.

    • 1
      3

      I’s refering to the 1890 period here -> https://qr.ae/pGBSJR

      • 5
        0

        Jambu,
        “Tamils should reverse fortunes by doing the opposite. They should unravel the island history of Buddha”
        I always suspected that the Buddha was a Tamil.

        • 1
          1

          old codger

          just because Lord Bhuddha lived in northeast you can’t jump to conclusions.

          • 3
            0

            Shankar,
            Is Kapilavastu the old name for Jaffna?😁😁

            • 0
              1

              old codger

              you got to ask wiggie.He is the expert on ancient tamilakam.

              • 0
                3

                There are too many experts on the subject whose sole asset is absolute ignorance.

          • 0
            3

            S
            “…Lord Bhuddha lived in northeast “
            Of which country?

            • 0
              0

              sj

              eelam.

              • 0
                1

                now the name has changed to peelam

        • 0
          0

          He had to be, OC.
          Tamil has the greatest collection of Buddhist classics in India, and Tamilnadu was the last bastion of Buddhism in India.

      • 4
        3

        Hey KD: Remember the Ukraine “tourists” , Digital Nomads and digital terrorists who spread Covid in Sri Lanka last year? Forgotten Ukrainan arms deals with Udayangana and US citizen Rajapakse brothers all American Proxies? Are you Part of the Dead Left?

        Yes, the Cold War is back and its a HOT WAR in the Global South, once again, albeit with a Covid mask. How come you don’t mention AUKUS – Australia, UK and US that is weaponizing the Sinhala Buddhist and Tamil Diaspora to Divide, Distract and Rule, promoting ethno-religious conflict narratives and violence in Lanka and Indian Ocean region to stage a clash between Buddhism and Islam?
        The imploded Empire and its NATO AUKUS side kicks are desperate for a War in Asia to take down Russia, China’s BRI and working on their Indian puppet Moda Modi at this time.
        The Deepstate hates Congress and loves the BJP and its US DIASPORA which they manipulate to control Modi just as they do US citizens Basil and Goat Rajapaksa though the Lankan AUKUS diaspora ethnic and religious Networks!

        • 0
          2

          And BTW KD: French Colonialism of the Indian Ocean where France has claimed huge areas of he Sea bed and minerals and the Western Indian Ocean where French Distant Water Fishing Fleets have looted the fish catches and beggered Somali and East African Fishermen is reaching new heights in Sri Lanka at this time.

          Sri Lankan fishermen in the Southern seas like the British Fishers in the Norht Sea will have to torpedo french vessels soon and of course cut those Submarine Data Cables that are digitally colonizing us all!

    • 3
      0

      What is the difference between NATO member states and ist partners ?
      **
      The member states of NATO are:
      Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.
      **
      In the order of joining NATO:
      1949 – Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, United Kingdom, United States.
      1952 – Greece, Turkey
      1955 – Germany
      1982 – Spain
      1999 – Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland
      2004 – Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia
      2009 – Albania, Croatia
      2017 – Montenegro
      2020 – North Macedonia
      **
      NATO partner countries are:
      Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finland, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Georgia, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Kyrghyz Republic, Malta, The Republic of Moldova, Russia, Serbia, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan.

  • 6
    4

    It was the political philosophy of LSSP genre of Prof. KD which resuscitated the savage instincts of the Sinhalese Buddhist leading this country to the bosom of ruination and still been kept alive by JVP/NPP. CTB was formed to spite the private bus owners and the tea estate owners spoiling the great cup of quality tea which was the Chardonnay of the masses. It had nothing to do with the Marxist Philosophy. It was a thriving economy then and not a Nation going around with the Begging Bowl in hand.

    • 1
      1

      hp
      “It was the political philosophy of LSSP genre of Prof. KD which resuscitated the savage instincts of the Sinhalese Buddhist…”
      Have you any evidence for this?
      Can you identify the said ‘philosophy’ in any specific way?
      *
      The LSSP made compromises with the SLFP, and that has been roundly criticised. But it never did anything to ‘resuscitate the savage instincts of the Sinhalese Buddhist’.
      The LSSP and CP were understandably bitter about the FP aligning with the UNP and thus erred in joining the January 1966 march led by the SLFP
      But they were not communal the way the UNP or SLFP or FP was.
      Philip fell victim to his political opportunism of 1956.

  • 7
    2

    “Remember how Kennedy and the US, kicking and screaming, brought the world to the brink of war in 1962?
    “Positioning nuclear missiles in Cuba it seemed was too close to the American mainland? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”
    *
    On 26 October 1962 Khrushchev sent a message to Kennedy offering to remove the Cuban missiles in exchange a promise that U.S. will not invade Cuba. The next day, he sent a letter proposing USSR dismantling its missiles in Cuba if the U.S. removed its missile installations in Turkey.
    [source History.com]
    Let us be clear the placing nuclear missiles on Cuban soil was pure adventurism risking Cuba’s security. It was not to protect Cuba. Khrushchev did it fir other reasons as evident from above.
    He did not consult Cuba about the deal with the US. Khrushchev saved face in his retreat, but Cuba was humiliated.
    *
    With imperialism what is sauce is always decided by the stronger.
    I hope that the author will apply the reasoning “Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander” to all human rights concerns of the West.

    • 11
      0

      SJ

      Also US promised it would remove all its missiles from Turkey.
      It never happened.

      ” With imperialism what is sauce is always decided by the stronger.”

      True, we see it in and around China, which is a piece loving country pieces from Afghanistan, Bhutan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Myanmar, Mongolia, Nepal, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, Tajikistan, Vietnam, large piece from India and Tibet.

      Now China the peacefully rising middle kingdom has started nibbling small pieces out of Sri Lanka.

      China is not yet an imperial power however it has claimed parts of various countries, imagine if and when it qualify as one.

      When will we see a robust review of Chinese foreign policy and land grabbing.

      • 4
        7

        “When will we see a robust review of Chinese foreign policy and land grabbing.”
        When you stop hallucinating.

        • 3
          0

          SJ

          “When you stop hallucinating.”

          You are rest assured. I don’t take drugs.
          However in some cases the names such as Marx, Mao, China, Stalin, … Pol Pot , Abimael Guzmán, Banda, SiriMao, … alone make them merry, alter sensory perceptions, cause selective amnesia and hallucination, …….

  • 8
    2

    We have forgotten the US experience not too long ago when it attempted to get Georgia into the NATO.
    The big loser was Georgia It lost territory to secessionists to its north.
    Ukraine has already lost Khrushchev’s little gift of a peninsula to his homeland by taking a hostile stand to Russia. It has also created for itself a secessionist problem on its east.
    *
    The US and allies would not care a toss if Ukraine gets crushed in it renewed Cold War (or proxy wars?) with Russia ans China.

  • 5
    0

    It will take much more than an application form for Ukraine to join NATO. A nation has to show a commitment to democracy, individual liberty and support for the rule of law for it to be admitted. Many in NATO do not think that Ukraine has achieved these goals. Besides, although Biden has been keen on turning ex-Warsaw Pact enemies into allies, he would not want to overreach himself and upset the Kremlin. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/us/politics/nato-ukraine.html

    • 7
      2

      Paul,
      “It will take much more than an application form for Ukraine to join NATO. A nation has to show a commitment to democracy, “
      On paper, true, but NATO got along quite well with Spanish, Portuguese, and Greek dictatorships. Russia nowadays is more Christian than the US, but I doubt the US will get along with with any nation that can’t be bullied.

      • 2
        2

        “I doubt the US will get along with with any nation that can’t be bullied.”
        That sums it up well.

  • 2
    3

    It seems this is a war of words and rhetoric than anything else. NATO tried to get as close as possible to the Russian border but that was met with a strong response. So they will back off. Ukraine will not be made part of NATO.

    The Russians will not attack as long as there are no foreign elements in Ukraine and as long as Ukraine is not part of NATO.

    But Russia has a lot to gain with nothing to loose if they can orchestrate a coup in Ukraine. And that is a real possibility.

    • 2
      2

      RSP,
      “The Russians will not attack as long as there are no foreign elements in Ukraine “
      The only significant foreigners in Ukraine at present, other than the tourists are the RUSSIANS in the eastern enclave!!!!
      You are right.
      No fight!!!!!

  • 5
    3

    Truth is, Ukrainians want to join NATO. All surrounding countries of Russia want to join NATO. NATO is a common socialist hedge-fund of capital. It’s high time Russia puts away its glorious thought-bubbles of Russian historical glory, and join NATO.
    *
    US hegemony over NATO does not matter. Unlike Russia or China, its recent history does not matter. No, US is a conglomeration of citizens of the world, showing a better way forward out of Historical Mania that constitute certain countries of origins. Just look at our little Motherland – fellows trying to undercut the global economic system to dance in glory on Sinhala ancient histories (and also Tamil). Buddhism based on realism is naught. Shame, shame!
    *
    https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/591036-invite-russia-to-join-nato

    • 1
      4

      RTF

      “US is a conglomeration of citizens of the world”

      Does the US koolaid taste great?

    • 3
      2

      Is not NATO an irrelevancy in a post Cold war world?

      • 2
        3

        SJ,
        Now it’s a fine expansive socialized egalitarian economic system.

        • 0
          2

          Really?
          What have they done with their weapons?

          • 1
            0

            ” Really? “

            You means NAaaaaaaaaTO arms? You really didn’t know that? It was long time ago; all the bombs were dismantled in Ukraine, Plutonium was sold to Taliban for scrape metal and Taliban delivered them in Pakistan and Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan made fresh bombs out of them. That was long long ago? You rally still didn’t come to know about that? (Real nincompoop)

          • 1
            0

            Halved them since the cold war…..newer technologies to ensure global democratic
            economic rights.

            • 0
              2

              NATO technologies for what did you say?
              I cannot stop laug……

      • 3
        0

        Do you understand what is Cold War means and what is NATO means? . How do you connect Cold War to NATO and you are asking to dismantle NATO and lopsidedly declaring that Cold over? Is there any documents saying that President Putin has conceded that Russia defeated and/or Russia subdued so Cold war over? I had asked many time a question when to demonstrate such inability to understand things, how have you been explaining subjects to students? Just fooling them the same way you are attempting in CT?
        So who snatched Crimea? Who is invading Ukraine. What happened in Belarus? What made Russia to invade Belarus? Had a Gentleman deed with Belarus? Would you like to become a Plutonium Tea salesman in Britain, to put Russian Journalist out of job?

        • 2
          1

          What happened in Belarus? What made Russia to invade Belarus? Had a Gentleman deed with Belarus?

          Please read “Belarus” as “Kazakhstan”. Sorry for misrepresentation with wrong name.

          • 1
            2

            “What made Russia to invade Belarus? “
            *
            I agree that you are not a clever liar

  • 2
    4

    This is the fate of every small nation next to giants.

    Remember what happened in wadamarichihi . I think Sri Lanka learned a good lesson then.

    I suppose Ukraine will too.

  • 1
    4

    Russia is sending troops through the border and making them Ukraine citizens. Russia need not war with Ukraine, but Ukraine will be converted to Russian majority land and with another referendum will be attached to Russia. In Russia a wild cat (Kaattu Poonai) has the taste of sitting on 22 Eastern European Nation’s stomachs and sucking the food through umbilical cord. Unlike Prof Kumar’s Marxism politics, and bogus history, NATO was created in end 1940s, to save Western Europe from Stalin’s aggression. But too late anyway. Russia has planted 50% of East German Communists inside Germany. So, Germany will join hands with Russia to create the third world war. Unless somebody captures modern fascist Germany once again and releases it as a democratic nation, Ukraine being swallowed cannot be stopped. Once Ukraine is captured by Russia, Germany will go for gas exploration in Ukraine. After hearing China hacking the Lankawe computers, in 2013, here we said here that China is here in Lankawe to stay permanently. Whatever President Putin lies, but the Ukraine is gone. Give time for me to work out the correct date.

  • 3
    5

    Russia is becoming the cancer of the earth. Hindutva India renewing its relationship with Russia. India wants to allow China to control South China sea. So, it thinks China will not challenge India in the Indian Ocean; Naive! Hindutva PM Modi is nothing but Moda in international affairs. He has had not taken any outstanding decision on any international Issue. Male Model Modi is busy manning the Delhi cloth show runways while his accolades are busy 365/24/7, negotiating to have released whatever China soldiers are capturing on the borders for breakfast, lunch, dinner. Do you understand that why never in history that India fought and won a war that came from outside? Bag Lay saying he will be standing with the upcountry Tamils, but not with North East Tamils. The Chinese ambassador is saying that Jaffna is not south of any country but in the North of Lankawe. Shameless Demulo Pariah Dr. Jayanagar only working for Gopal BagLay, the Indian Ambassador, because Aanduwa will not entertain any Demolu Parish within Buddha’s Holy land, SinhaLE, but ok with Hindi extremists. (Comedy Thamai -Chaffs).

  • 4
    1

    There is already an agreement (Minsk Agreement – interested readers could google it) to end the war in the Donbas region. Ukraine is not willing to implement the agreement and Russia is justified in suspecting that some members of NATO may have encouraged Ukraine not to implement it. Arming of Ukraine before the current crisis is evidence of such encouragement.
    One could argue that what is unfolding now is a well thought out strategy to trap and diminish Russia.
    The question is whether it is too late for Russia to respond now!
    The USA, along with the UK invaded Iraq without explicit sanction of the UN. Contrast that with the Ukraine – clear evidence of double standards.

    • 4
      3

      SA
      Putin is a bad boy because he is not like Gorbachev who could be taken for a ride or like Yeltsin who will surrender to the Empire.
      With all his faults, he knows what he wants and does not vacillate. As long as the US is what it is, Russia needs someone of his calibre or even tougher on US imperialism.
      The US is taking on too many foes (some its own creations) at the same time.
      It was beaten in Afghanistan, is on the run in Syria and soon Iraq. Iran is not yielding. To take on Russia and China at the same time is pure folly.
      Biden is worse than Putin in international matters.

      • 3
        0

        SJ
        Thanks.
        The expansion of NATO, after the collapse of the Soviet Union is covered in several articles (refer to The Telegraph UK, BBC News and The Financial Times). The Western press is totally biased.
        In the comments section of the FT, I reminded a reader of the agreement (verbal) between Jim Baker and Gorbachev that NATO would not expand towards the East. I was branded a Russian troll!
        Its a unipolar world since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Yeltsin was a total disaster for Russia and the rest of the world.
        Sadly, it is not easy for Putin.

        • 2
          1

          Please, Please, Please

          NATO was created with one sole object of defending Western Nations from USSR. Period. Russia can demand to dismantle NATO if Russia had made NATO a purposeless organization, here after. But what happened was opposite of what President Gorbachev promised. Gorbachev himself could not remain as president. You are demanding Sec Jim Baker to honor his promise. Could you name a person from whom Jim Baker can make the same demand? President Putin? You have any idea who abandon President Gorbachev’s written agreements in arm control and restarted the arm race again? Do know one atomic powered missile can fly in the space for centuries gaining speed faster than light and come and destroy the country targeted? Just don’t read some junk favorable to you and rewrite them here.

          • 0
            0

            “Do know one atomic powered missile can fly in the space for centuries gaining speed faster than light and come and destroy the country targeted?”
            Now, that’s really interesting. But will Putin be around in a few centuries?

            • 1
              0

              Old,
              Those atomic powered hyper-sonic missiles, theoretically & practically do not run out of power. Once launched, they can hang in space for centuries until the fuel rot lose radioactivity. On its first test Russia lost four of its super scientists and unknown number other hi-fi military guys. But it got it polished in the subsequent tests.
              ” But will Putin be around in a few centuries? “ That is question I am raising in Putin’s endeavor in manufacturing those missiles.

            • 1
              2

              OC “on “Do know one …”
              I thought that you were satisfied with being amused by granma.
              Granma in fairness knows her grammar.

              • 2
                0

                ” Granma in fairness knows her grammar.
                She claims she is coming from different cultures & she is fairer. But I know she cannot match your fair. But still she is not a Savam. Does she?
                You ran out of your angel Putin’s Respectability to continue your Pillaiyar Kathai. So, Come out and show not how deep, but how lower you can sunk in cesspools, deeper than Marianna Trench!

      • 4
        1

        SJ,

        Putin is an ex-KGB thug who became a billionaire via fraud and blatant corruption. If he is the standard-bearer for Marxism, then little wonder that the ideology will remain thoroughly discredited. This has nothing to do with imperialism.

        • 0
          4

          Agnos
          Where has anyone called Putin a Marxist?
          People who hate Marxism need no excuses, yet they will not miss an excuse when they find it.
          *
          Call Putin anything, but he put Russia back on the global political map in the face of ceaseless efforts by the US and allies to humiliate and destroy it.
          Peter the Great was a cruel tyrant. Very few talk about it.
          *
          I will add the following to my statement:
          Why Putin has a bad press in the US is not because he is or was a thug. The US cannot tolerate anyone who can stand up to it

          • 3
            0

            SJ,

            It is not just the US press. Putin is widely known as a killer. His killings and disabling of his critics, including by poisoning and radioactive substances, are not denied by Russians themselves. One doesn’t need to depend on the US Press to know that.

            As for putting Russia on the map, that brings up echoes of many Tamils who claimed, “yes, we don’t support everything the LTTE does, but they put us on the map, and we respect that.” We all know how that ended up.

            FYI–Russia’s GDP is smaller than even Italy’s, so Americans often dismiss Putin’s bombast. His brinkmanship will create more misery to the Russian populace, and his action has strengthened Ukrainian nationalism and hardened anti-Russian sentiments. If he invades Ukraine, he will face a quagmire worse than what the Soviet Union faced in Afghanistan.

            • 4
              0

              Agnos

              Please stop arguing with SJ.
              He does not like facts.
              He blames western media for reporting facts.
              SJ has his own rules and ways of collecting, interpreting, repeating, reproducing …. facts.

              Basically as far as he is concerned China, Mao, SiriMao, Pol Pot, V Prabaharan could make no mistake.

              Ask him a simple question such as whether China grabs land all over the world, icluding in Sri Lanka? Did SiriMao aid and abet genocide, committed war crimes, ….. whether Sri Lankan police was guilty of causing death of 11 people in January 1974?

  • 1
    0

    The Russian invasion of Ukraine has already started. The Russians have annexed the Crimean region after a fake referendum and are fomenting dissent in Eastern Ukraine. They are already arming pro-Russian terrorists. In the war in Donbas about 14,000 people have already been killed. Unfortunately the Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons after the break up of the USSR so it has little to threaten the Russians with. Putin is behaving like Adolf Hitler. How many people will die because of one man’s ego.

    • 1
      0

      Svenson,
      “The Russians have annexed the Crimean region after a fake referendum”
      The fact is that Crimea was Russian before it was given to Ukraine in 1953. Remember, the Charge of the Light brigade took place in Crimea. Neither Russians or Ukrainians are original inhabitants. Those were the Muslim Crimean Tatars, who were banished by Stalin. The western parts of Ukraine belonged to Poland pre-1939.
      It’s not as simple as it may seem.

      • 0
        0

        OC
        There is an important correction:
        In April 1944… the Soviet forces regained control of Crimea. The reconquest was hardly completed when the Crimean Tatars were deported en masse on the false accusation of having collectively collaborated with the Nazis. This Muslim Turkic-speaking minority then represented 19.4% of the population of the peninsula, where Russians represented over 50%.
        [https://www.sciencespo.fr/mass-violence-war-massacre-resistance/fr/document/suerguen-crimean-tatars-deportation-and-exile.html]
        Interpretation of events apart, the demographic data seems correct.

      • 2
        1

        OC it doesn’t really matter that the original inhabitants were Tartars or that a part belonged to Poland pre-1939. What matters are the wishes of the people who inhabit the country right now, and those people wish to be free of Russian domination.

        • 1
          0

          Svenson,
          Which people? The ones in the Eastern parts are mostly Russian. That’s why there is an insurgency.

    • 2
      2

      S
      Crimea held a referendum and the vote was overwhelmingly (90%++) for secession.
      It was held with no foreign presence. Russia was nowhere near.
      What is fake is the West’s reporting of the event.
      Let not flights of fantasy cloud the issues.

      • 3
        0

        SJ

        “What is fake is the West’s reporting of the event.”

        Did you consult The People’s Daily (人民日报; pinyin: Rénmín Rìbào) if the news item was fact checked by official newspaper of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)?

  • 2
    0

    Old,
    I don’t see any reason in your explanation why Russia snatched Crimea from Ukraine. Sorry! It seems simply Russia is looking to restore Stalin’s lost (barbaric) glory in the USSR’s Communist era, nothing else. The gained freedom through toppling the USSR cannot be just lost because German General and UOJ Saddampi are thinking that President Putin is a Respectable Gentleman, seeking respect by invading Ukraine, but no one else is respectable. Putin snatched Crimea. Sanction flew. Now he’s threatening that if severe sanctions come out of this, he will start a war. Is there somebody honestly believing that Putin is expecting that he is going to get respect in return to his invasion of Ukraine? Then why is he threatening with escalated war? Come on guys; he is 100% sure that he is playing a dirty game and he is well aware that what is going to be the world’s response. So, he is trying to bully the whole world and get away with his theft. Wait and watch if Putin is getting respect as “neo Napoleon” or labeled as “War Criminal” like Hitler.

    • 1
      1

      Malli,
      Did you believe Bush and Blair when they said Saddam had WMD’s? Putin is just as respectable as those two gentlemen.

      • 1
        0

        I don’t believe in Putins that should be born only in Russia or Langkang or Germany or Iraq or China. But I agree it is possible they be born in USA, Canada, New Zealand…. But the other side of my believe keep failing is what my astonishment. How many of Colin Powell or Alexei can survive Russian Plutonium Tea or Langkang prison riots Tienanmen Square crack down? The inverse my belive so far proved to be good only in Canada or USA or New Zealand…..That is where I am too disappointed, as much as you.

      • 1
        0

        Old
        Myth busting is free world media’s jobs. Plutonium tea drinking Russian journalists don’t get a share on that. Sorry man, I am being too rude to Russian Journalists, though have no personal grudge against them !

        • 0
          0

          Malli,
          “Myth busting is free world media’s jobs”
          Which media do you consider free? The ones who told you that Afghans bombed the Twin Towers? Or the ones who talk about Iran’s planned nukes, but not Israel’s actual ones.
          Don’t believe everything you read.

          • 1
            0

            ” Which media do you consider free? “

            I agree with your question’s subliminal message that it cannot produce a concrete answer.
            But,
            Don’t believe everything you read.
            Why are you rescinding your part of this free media? Take responsibility & Play your part!

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    President Putin has made 200 times of economic swindling of Russian oil money, like whatever our Old Rowdy King did in Langkang. It is so idiocy, if not real crookedness & hypocrisy that one compares the US going in Iraq to remove Saddam, and Russia snatching Crimea.
    We recognize the MultiPolar world order. But every pole must demonstrate its little philosophy to the wellbeing of the world. Anarchy, communism, dictatorships, monarchies cannot be one of them. Here, anything done for the duck will not be done for the gander. Democracy is the only path. There is no acceptable Ethir Kadai for Democratic Keerai Kadai because democracy has its own built-in opposition. Otherwise, the Ethir Kadi will be playing double jeopardy. Please accept the fact that world security is determined by five dominant nations, it is not a process decided by 8B world population. These five nations have an extraordinary responsibility to think and act, before they run over a country to rule it over saying that country is a threat to them. When one of these countries invade another country, the threat perceived has to be to world peace, cannot be the greed to rule another country.

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    This is not my position, but I cite here only as a piece of logic. If Crimea voted for referendum and Russia snatched it, then why is Russia not withdrawing its planted rebel from eastern Ukraine and back off to Moscow after Ukraine elected a pro-western government? Is that because Russia can see only the referendum it conducted but not the free voting of the Ukraine people? Is Russia ready to conduct a UN sponsored referendum in all countries? It’s bullying now and then allows them to join NATO or EU for their defense and economic needs? If Russia is ready, let us run a referendum in Chechnya that if they want to go under Afghan or Saudi or under Iran or be just freed from Russia? Remember, sooner or later Germany will be pressured to shut down all heat generating resources, including gas plants & atomic reactors; that time Germany will revise its support to Russia. Further, by this madness, if President Putin had thought that he has earned any respect from any corner, that is really dumbfounded; but rather he reserved a place for him in line with Gadhafi, Saddam and Langkang’s Old Rowdy’s.

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      Malli,
      ” Germany will be pressured to shut down all heat generating resources, including gas plants & atomic reactors”
      It’s already doing that without pressure:

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/3/germany-calls-nuclear-power-dangerous-rejects-eu-plan

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        OC
        You are incorrigible.
        At your age granny is just about enough pain that you can take.

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          ” Granma in fairness knows her grammar.
          She claims she is coming from different cultures & she is fairer. But I know she cannot match your fair. But still she is not a Savam. Does she?
          You ran out of your angel Putin’s Respectability to continue your Pillaiyar Kathai. So, Come out and show not how deep, but how lower you can sunk in cesspools, deeper than Marianna Trench!

          You are incorrigible.
          EPDP’s achievements in PTA prison cell are not surmountable. But in fact it will be won in your life and needed people will face criminal Investigation in Chennai Courts..

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    If Germany don’t want to give arms to Ukraine, can it ask Putin to release Alexei Navalny. It is widely accused Putin fed him with Plutonium tea (may be something else) and when the family sent him unconscious to Berlin, Putin accused him of running away from parole. I believe now Alexei in Russian torture camps for hard labor.

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    who cares about what is threatening russia.We are being threatened by everything possible,corona,dengue,dumb unedcated politicians,corruption ranked 102 nd in the world,hub of this and hub of that but so far only a hubcap,powercuts,water cuts because of excessive reservoir consumption for power, additional 2 years for gota, potential military takeover like in thailand etc,etc.

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      “who cares about what is threatening russia”
      That has been the Tamil attitude all along.
      And now who cares about them?

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        SJ

        what about muslims.They did not care about what is threatening tamils.Then what happenned to them.Now look what is happening to the sinhalese who did not care about what was happening to the tamils and muslims.An autocratic persident is making arbitary decisions without consuting the experts and sinhalese are finding it hard to put food on the table for their families.

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    Mallaiyuran. Try not to write after you have been smoking strong stuff. Especially on international affairs. You get everything mixed up when you do.

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      ” Try not to write after you have been smoking strong stuff. ”
      Man what to do now? Rapist Army, to some pocket money to South, kept beating us northerners’ and taught that. If I quit, can some UOJ Saddampies will mage with the pension to feed their needs?

      Leave it there. But can I negotiate IMF loan for Appe Aanduwa? How useful is that to relief from your rumbling stomach for Biriyani and Arrack? Sinhala Buddhist’s high understanding of International affairs made Communist Denesh withdraw from UNHRC resolution. So Hitler King now replaced him with GLP to with hope to fool the whole world.

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      sarath

      or maybe it is only a mixed up muddled mind writing strong stuff.Don’t jump to conclusions that he is a kudukaraya.

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