Statistics have shown that a large majority of victims are Muslim. However, Islam teaches that consent from both man and woman is a must before a marriage can take place. The Qur’an states “O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion…” (4:19). The Sahih al-Bukhari, one of the most revered sources of hadith (Islamic practice) amongst Islamic scholars, reports the Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) as saying: “The widow and the divorced woman shall not be married until her order is obtained, and the virgin girl shall not be married until her permission is obtained.” (Bukhari, 67:42). The next chapter of the Sahih al-Bukhari states: “When a man gives his daughter in marriage and she dislikes it, the marriage shall be repudiated” (Bukhari, 67:43), with further hadith providing examples of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) cancelling such marriages in which the daughter’s consent was not sought.
See: Al-Sahih al-Bukhari, by Abu ‘Abdallah Muhammed, Ibn Isma’il al-Bukhari.
Therefore, a forced marriage is not an issue of religion, but it is a cultural practice that violates your right as a woman and as a Muslim. The act of forcing someone to marry is in fact an act that is against the practices and teachings of Islam.
gamini / August 29, 2012
It is hillarious to note the Old Devil preaching the scriptures of marriage after himself keeping a young girl of nine years in his custody and consumating her at fourteen, merely because the father of the girl handed over her custody. What Justification can there be, when villany is committed by the Preacher himself?
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Mohamed Marzook / August 30, 2012
Why hide behind an unspecific generalized statement. Be straightforward and say to whom the reference is to, who the father and the daughter are, when and where it happened. Then there will be a clear response.
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Lanka Muslim, UK / August 30, 2012
The Prophet’s Marriages and Wives
One line of hostile argument against Islam and the Prophet begins in the following manner: he married multiple times, which proves he was a voluptuary! The argument then goes on to conclude that any serious study of the religion of which this licentious person was the primary spokesperson would be worthless. Even a cursory examination of Muhammad’s (S) marriages however destroys these widely held myths. I will list Muhammad’s (S) marriages in chronological order and describe the rationale and circumstances surrounding them.
1. Khadijah bint Khuwaylid
Khadijah , his first wife, was a widow who was much older than Muhammad (S) when she proposed to him. Because of her success in business and lineage, many of the wealthy among the Quraysh desired to marry her. She, however, was impressed by Muhammad’s (S) character and so she initiated the marriage proposal. She was his steadfast supporter in extremely trying times and always provided wise counsel and solace. She was the first person to accept Islam. Khadijah died approximately twenty-five years after they married, and Prophet Muhammad (S) continued to revere her memory for the rest of his life.
2. Sawdah bint Zam’ah
After Khadijah’s death, the Prophet married Sawdah. She was also a widow. She and her husband had accepted Islam very early in the mission and had been among the migrants to Ethiopia. She was a tall and rather heavyset individual. She was also very well known for her charity. The marriage of Muhammad (S) to Sawdah set the trend of the Prophet marrying widows of Muslims who had died of natural causes or during one of the many battles. The social structure of the time was not conducive for widows or women living singly. One could argue that today, in societies like Bosnia and Chechnya, where large members of men have become the victims of genocide, multiple marriages to widows would be a reasonable remedy for these women living in dire poverty and destitution, or turning to prostitution to survive.
3. ‘A’ishah bint Abu Bakr
It was customary in the Arab society for close friendships and bonds to be strengthened by marriage into the family. Muhammad (S) married the daughters of his two closest associates, Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, the first two Khalifahs (successors of the Prophet) of Islam. In turn, three of the daughters of the Prophet were married to the other two companions who became the third and fourth Khalifahs, Uthman ibn ‘Affan and ‘Ali ibn Abu Talib. The youngest of his wives, ‘A’ishah , Abu Bakr’s daughter, was a remarkable woman. Her lively personality comes through in the quotes attributed to her in the Sirah and Hadith literature. Muhammad (S) took permission from his other wives and spent the last days of his life with her and he died in her arms. She was extremely intelligent and erudite. Much of the stronger Hadith literature is attributed to her. Many of the companions would seek her help in resolving difficult legal problems.
4. Hafsah bint ‘Umar
When Hafsah became a widow, her father ‘Umar, one of the great Khalifahs of Islam, started looking for a husband for her. He initially asked Uthman . Uthman’s wife, Ruqayyah, one of the Prophet’s daughters, had just died. However Uthman demurred. ‘Umar then asked Abu Bakr to marry her, but Abu Bakr also declined. He then finally asked Muhammad (S). Sensing what was going on, the Prophet readily agreed. Later when during Uthman’s caliphate the authoritative version of the Qur’an was redacted Hafsah would be the custodian of the manuscript.
5. Zaynab bint Khuzaymah (The mother of the indigent)
Zaynab’s husband ‘Ubaydah was killed in the battle of Badr. Muhammad (S) immediately offered to marry her. She had the reputation of being extremely caring toward the needy and the indigent. She was known as Umm al-Masakin (The mother of the poor). She died within two or three months of her marriage to the Prophet.
6. Umm Salamah bint Abu Umayyah
Her real name was Hind, but she was known as Umm Salamah. Her husband, Abdullah bin Abdul Asad was known as Abu Salamah. They had migrated to Ethiopia, and Abu Salamah was well known for his courage and prowess as an equestrian. He died from injuries sustained during the battle of Uhud. Umm Salamah was pregnant at that time. After waiting the period, Muhammad (S) proposed marriage to her. She initially refused, citing reasons of being old and having children from the previous marriage, but Muhammad (S) insisted. She was with Muhammad (S) during the trip to Makkah from the pilgrimage, which resulted in the Hudaybiyah treaty. Her advice and counsel proved crucial during those very critical days.
7. Zaynab bint Jahsh
Zaynab (ra) had been married to Zayd bin Thabit. Zayd was Muhammad’s (S) slave before the advent of Islam. Muhammad (S) appeared to set a precedent that slaves should be freed and should carry no stigma from their past. Zaynab, who was Muhammad’s (S) cousin, may have married Zayd under moral duress. The exact rationale behind the marriage is unclear. The marriage did not last long. It is possible that the Prophet felt some responsibility about the failed marriage and therefore the necessity to marry her. The Qur’an offers an additional explanation for the marriage. Two of the prevalent customs in the society were to banish “wives” into limbo by declaring them to be their husband’s “mothers,” (as discussed earlier, the practice was called Zihar), and to declare foster children as one’s natural children. The Prophet’s marriage to Zaynab (ra), who was divorced from Zayd, abolished the latter practice. Zaynab was known for her extraordinary piety and righteousness. She was in her late middle age when she married the Prophet.
8. Juwariyah bint al-Harith
The prisoners of war captured after the defeat of Banu Musta’liq (sub-tribe of Khuza ‘ah) included Juwayriyah .She was the daughter of the defeated tribal chief. Her husband had been killed in the skirmish. She would have become a companion’s, Thabit bin Qays’, slave. She found that unacceptable and petitioned the Prophet. He freed her by paying Thabit her ransom and offered to restore her prestige by marrying her. She accepted, and an important byproduct of the marriage was that the entire over seven hundred prisoners of war of the tribe of Banu Musta’liq were freed.
9. Umm Habibah bint Abu Sufyan
Ramla (mother of Habibah) was initially married to ‘Ubaydullah bin Jahsh The two migrated to Ethiopia, and after the migration ‘Ubaydullah converted to Christianity. Ramla remained a Muslim, resulting in a separation and divorce. Muhammad (S) sent an envoy to Negus with a proposal that he should conduct his marriage to Umm Habibah “in absentia.”
10. Safiyyah bint Huyay
Her real name was Zaynab, but she was known by the nickname of Safiyyah. She was a prisoner of war following an assault on Khaybar. Both her father and brother had died during the war. She was initially assigned to a companion, Wahyi Kalby, but when it was realized that she was the daughter of a tribal chief, other companions objected.
11. Maymunah bint al-Harith
Maymunah’s first marriage resulted in a divorce, and her second husband died, making her both a widow and a divorcee. One of the Prophet’s close companions, Abbas proposed that Muhammad (S) should marry her. He agreed, demonstrating that it was no longer a stigma for a woman to be both divorced and widowed. They felt it would be inappropriate for her to be assigned to anyone other than the Prophet. She was occasionally the subject of sarcasm because of her Jewish parentage. Whenever the Prophet became aware of this, he showed his annoyance.
12. Mariyah
Muhammad’s (S) last son was born to Mariyah, the Coptic. She was one of the two slave girls presented to the Prophet by the Archbishop of Alexandria. She gave birth to a son, Ibrahim, who, like the other two sons born to Khadijah died in infancy.
The Rationale Behind Prophet’s Marriages
The rationale behind these marriages is clear. Many were performed to rehabilitate divorced and widowed women, especially widows of companions who had been killed in the early battles. Sometimes, Muhammad (S) had to go to great lengths to persuade the women to marry him. Other marriages were done to strengthen bonds between friends and tribes. Some were done as an act of compassion toward a conquered foe. In the society of those times, they were regarded as acts of nobility and kindness. With the exception of the marriage to Zaynab bint Jahsh, none appeared to create any controversy. The controversy surrounding Zaynab’s marriage soon dissipated as the motive behind it became clear. All of his wives distinguished themselves in some area of charity, kindness, or, as in the case of ‘A’ishah , erudition and knowledge. They were held to a higher standard and were informed that both their rewards and punishments were greater than of other women in the society. The Qur’an honors them as the “Mothers of the believers”. Their marriages to the Prophet were voluntary and they could initiate and ask for divorce if they so desired. The Qur’an and Muhammad (S) made revolutionary changes in the status of women and his wives were in many ways exemplars of these changes. As the Prophet’s dealings with his wives were based on love, affection, respect and dignity, others in the society were expected to follow his exemplary behavior. Men and women were declared equal in the eyes of Allah. Compassion, equity, and justice were mandated. Rules were laid down for marriage and divorce. Laws regarding ownership of property were promulgated. The notion of the moral superiority of men over women was shot down. Men were told they had the duty to protect women and children. As mentioned earlier the Qur’an stresses the moral and spiritual equality of men and women in emphatic and unambiguous language.
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gamini / August 31, 2012
I have been accused, though not Judged, but condemned and convicted for questioning the TRUTHFULNESS of not only Islam but all Religion for that matter. Fortunately this questioning is possible in todays context, in Forums as these, read by a wider circle of people of mixed faith, some of whom are blind to faith and others, those of whom who are on the fence unable to decide. Religion had been strong without allowing any to question from the time Religion has been found. In Islam, leave alone questioning, so many have been killed through Fatwa, a process of juristic ruling by the so called fanatical Islamic Scholars. Fortunately for people like Salmon Rushidie, Taslima Nasareen, who are of Islamic faith itself have managed to escape in exile not for questioning Islam, but for commenting on the teachings of islam accused for Blashphemy. However so far, for years nothing bad has happened to any of them as a non existent God can not do any harm or good. Imagine what these innocent Fanatical Muslims would do to me, for exposing the BLUFF in the name of Islam they have adopted? They would make minced meet out of me for sure.
One Iithi has posted a comment under another thread, that I have insulted Prophet Mohamed as a cradle snatcher. Now Prophet Mohamed as a mortal, like any one of us, not conceived through Immaculate Conception, is subject to, and answerable for his actions in his life and not free of comment in todays context. Please read the above post of Lankan Muslim from UK about the narration of Prophet Mohamed’s ‘harem’. He has had over twelve women as spouses, good many being widows, naturally Islam adopting Jihad and getting the men to fight Holy Wars, where a good number of men died in battle. I would not put past these Prophets who would have seen immense opportunity to keep more than one spouse as generally permitted in society, to have more spouses by committing the men to fight Holy Wars. The Muslim population would have dwindled if not for this facility afforded to the males to have seven wives legally and much more in the case of Prophet Mohamed as a special privilage for having permitted others. Not bad eh! to entice adherents and boast of a following of over 1.6 billion claimed by one and according to another as over 2 billion? Coming back to the Cradle Snatching, this Prophet has been in his sixties the time he consumate the young girl of fourteen. What would be the reaction of the society, had this been committed today? In general parlance, is this act not one of cradle snatching? Iithi and for others who are offended, I am sorry, but this is the fact and not my invention.
Then as for Immaculate Conception. Iithi goes on to mention according to the ‘Unholy Quoran’ a number of 24 Prophets that God has send from time to time to this world, from Prophet Adam to Prophet Mohamed the last one and God has exhausted of Prophets. Surely being the God, all powerful, why can he not create at least one more, for the present world where there is Inequality, Indifference, Hypocrisy and Conflict as never seen in the history of civilisation as happening today? All these Prophets God have sent in the past, have come when the societies the world over have been generally illiterate and naive. What better proof for this God’s existance, so as to shut all of us critics for him to send another Prophet or for him to appear without playing hide and seek. Coming back to Immaculate Conception, of all except one, Jesus Christ is the only one who has had an Immaculate Conception. Why only in the case of Jesus? Afterall it is God who is supposed to have created man, Adam the first Human being. Surely then he could have created his son Jesus and the other Prophets as well? Iithi accuses me of having introduced Joseph to Mary. Sorry Iithi I was not the broker. Christianity reveals Joseph’s role as the partner of Mary, the day they were looking for a place to deliver the baby. What I asked was, could anyone vouch for these two, after having been living together, whether they would have not copulated? Just as simple as that!
Further Iithi claims that I am heaping insult on the beliefs of others. Certainly not. I am only questioning the veracity of facts stated. If not for the advancement of knowledge of mankind, the people will be still believing the World is flat and not a Globe. Lastly I would like to touch on a comment made by Iithi that Prophet Mohamed recognised the equality of men and women. Did He? Is that why till recently, the women folk were not allowed anywhere near the Mosques? Today the women folk are allowed to pray separately in an area abutting the main Mosque. Is this not discrimination? If only one reads the above post of Lankan Muslim on the Merry Wives of Prophet Mohamed, one can understand the equality meted to women being traded as pieces of merchandise to satisfy the lust of the old and the fickle, sending the young men to die in Holy Wars. Iithi you are offended when I state ‘Unholy Quoran’. Can you kindly explain how a War that destroys human lives as Holy?
Mohamed Marzook, the character that I refered innuendo in my earlier post under this thread was that of Prophet Mohamed very clearly. You state that if I am specific, there can be a clear response. Why, do you have anything to defend other than claiming he is a Prophet sent by God and should not be a subject of discussion, because it will hurt the feelings of many who hold him in ‘Hgh Esteem’? Why don’t the entire Muslim Population get together and pray curses on me continuously, to inflict a calamity to show you tangible results? I am sad a nation over a few Billion who believe in a non existent God, when pointed out the irrational are offended by rational arguments forwarded. I am not trying to disuade you from your faith, as you are free to do so. I have only explained what I think as Rational. Anyone is FREE to disagree and ignore me. But if you come forward to debunk what I state, then you should be prepared to counter. I am only THINKING ALOUD for the consumption of those who hold similar views as this is a forum to interact ideas and beliefs.
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Mohamed Marzook / August 31, 2012
Dear Gamini, we do not believe in praying curses on you for your ignorance on Islam, your hatred and insinuations; but we pray to the Almighty to bless you with the positive characteristics to be a good-thinking human being.
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Seyed / August 31, 2012
Dear Mr.Gamin,
According to you there is no God, can you please find me an answer to the following:
What section of the human genes decides on the finger prints?
Pl take this in to consideration, “No two finger prints are alike” today we have 7 billion * 10 finger in the world and we do not know how many came and how many to come? but not two were same! Just imagine 3 babies born in 3 different parts in the world at the same time and “Who” decides which finger print to which child? (pl forgive me for my English I am not a learned like you people- my argument is just on a sq.cm. of the human body, pl think about the whole body!!!)
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gamini / August 31, 2012
Mohamed Marzook, I have no hatred towards Islam or to any Muslim. Why should I and what for? I have so many friends who are Muslims and I am no fanatic of any Religion. I have only highlighted the distortions by the overzealous adherents in their act to propergate the faith, that is all.
Seyed, you are talking of finger prints which never matches of any two individuals nor the lines of the palm for your information. There are so many things in life and in this world and outside that we only know a minute fraction although some profess to know everything. Our learning procees continues till we die. Although we are adults there will be so many things that a little child may know, that we adults are unaware. Now see the children of one family, coming from the identical genes of the same parents, yet they differ in appearence, complexion, ability, intellect, achievements in life and positions they hold in society. There are many things that we strive to understand and very likely we never will. That does not mean there is a Particular God responsible for all this. A few weeks ago, some one posted an article that had appeared in a Readers Digest some time back, about the clock work precision of events around us. It was indeed the marvells of Nature. You may believe in a God being responsible for all this. I will not and even ridicule the concept of God. I have been so like this, right throuh life and have been healthy and quite successful in life without pleading for mercies from any God or Religion. I have a family of two children grown up married and having children of their own and none of us are Religious, who are very healthy and with no sicknesses. and eat well. At the same time we do not practice Hypocrisy or lead deceitful lives either. We enjoy life in moderation and are never over ambitious. On the other hand I know some who are highly Religious, faced with absolute misery with sicknesses and financial worries. Living this life of theirs is a curse for them. So can you explain God to me?
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Mohamed Marzook / August 31, 2012
Ones words reflect his mind. In public discourse, if it is expected to be a healthy one with the intention of convincing one or the other the words and language used should be decent and cordial. It is then that ones views would be given serious consideration. Reasons given should be given due consideration than harping on the same conclusions made beforehand. Let us promote that culture so that discussion will be useful to those who read.
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gamini / September 1, 2012
Come, come Mohamed Marzook, there is nothing disparaging or indecent language I used to describe the questioned issues. How serious are you that you will give due consideration to a dignified debate to consider what has been said, as your opening stand does not see an old man consumating a young child as improper. Is it not news today, had it happen anywhere? Then as for the Miracles mentioned, I’ll leave it for the general public to judge.
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Pinhamy / September 1, 2012
I wonder why you exlain totally different to what you yoursef had been explaining a couple weeks ago – itwas you who said to a questions David raised then, that you are not aware how many days you would survive – because of the cancer that you have been suffering from….. or not ? Having closely studied the comments since then- now I feel that you just try to drop some comments to Lith´s focusing attacks on them. I have been noticing it , that you always chased after muslims adhehrents to argue them about the relationship between Prophet and God … etc.. so these kind of chasing could be evident that you are bit fear of your life – though continued to explain the opposite… It is common to many who re either dead sick or highly disspoinited of the life .. only chasing after the religions (gods or any other powers).
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Pinhamy / September 1, 2012
this was addressed to the Gamini´s comments
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gamini / September 1, 2012
Pinhamy or Pauhamy, if you had followed my comments, you would have surely read reference the Dambulla incident, my posts in favour of the Mosque and I still stand by that. As I have stated, I am not against Islam or the Muslims. The discussion here has been the essence of Islam and the repressive manner the adherents are treated, like Salmon Rushidie and Taslima Nasreen on the freedom of expression. I have no qualms in dying as I have lived my life and the cancer whether arrested or not is not a bother for me. There has to be a cause for man to die. Surely we have not come here to live for ever and ever. Why are you frightened of death?
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Ilthi / August 31, 2012
Here you go again, typical of you with your hate mongering, attacking the Prophet of Islsm, with cruel name calling and insults, unable to control your hatred towards those of Muslim faith. Woe be unto you. Surely, you can say what you want without the name calling and insults, and debate or clear all doubts and issues without triggering animosity. Your thirst for answers is marred by your character assassination, insults and false insinuations laid on the leader of 2.4 billion people, and it is for us to defend him and expose to the world the best of his qualities, which makes him (our Prophet) so unique, and way, way above what you perceive him to be. You ask why God (who is supposed to be Mighty) cannot send another Prophet, and if He has ‘run out of Prophets’. The answer is that there is no need, since the last Prophet did such a good job, the people learnt, brought into practice, taught others, and thus passed on his teachings and practices throughout the generations that followed. It is now in our hands, which we will teach to our off springs to carry the message forward to the future generations, without any distortions. since we will read the Prophet’s Hadiths and Sunnah’s (teachings and practices) only from what is recorded in Books either Buhari, Muslim, Thirmidhi or Hanbali, and further, receive divine guidance from reading and understanding The Holy Quran. Nothing else will qualify. All others will lead us astray.
Either you are thoroughly confused, or adamant as hell to influence the thinking that marriage to many, or having many wives is either obscene or downright vulgar, bad practice, illegal or a filthy act.It may be difficult for some to digest that both men and women were created for each other, and further, for one to be comfort to the other (Holy Quran). Tell me what religion in the world today, leave aside the atheists, have the solution for solving social issues in societies having female population in excess? None, except Islam, where it is permissible to have upto four wives, with the added clause that they must all be treated equal, if not, marry only one. It can happen in any society where there can be more male infanticides, leaving a surplus of girls who will need husbands. Also it can happen in war situations, men die leaving a surplus of women without husbands, sons, fathers or brothers. Women are never sent to war, nor are men sent to war to get killed in order to reduce their population in order for the living to have more spouses, as you articulate so sickly and cruelly.
In Islam, it is incumbent for the husband to provide for food, clothing and shelter to his wedded wife, expecting only love, devotion and loyalty from her in return. Adherents of all other religions have no solution to the problem of excessive women, with the rule of one man one wife until death do them apart, this problem can only escalate with no solution in sight. Islam and its laws (Shariah) are designed for yesterday, today and tomorrow, to withstand the test of time.
When you consider the lifestyle during the time of the Prophet, and even previous prophets who had many harems, it was quite common to marry more than once, unlike the customs and practices in modern lifestyles. These factors need to be taken into context as well. In this instance, after everyone realized there was a God sent Prophet in their midst, who was so kind, loving and just, had much desire for them or their daughters to become a wife to the Holy Prophet, and thus it so happened in the last stages of his life, that the Prophet’s best friend Abu Backr Siddeeq (First Caliph of Islam after the demise of the Prophet) proposed his young daughter Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) in marriage when she was just 9 years old. But the marriage was consummated only after she attained age at 12 years. The Prophet thus fulfilled his best friend’s (disciple) desire, and further left a legacy behind, as she, Aisha (Ral) was able to record the most number of authentic traditions and sayings of the Prophet, long after the Prophet had passed off, which we are able to read today in the mentioned Books. You refer to this marriage as Cradle Snatching.How very cruel. The Prophet did not marry out of lust. A very exhaustive narrative of each of the Prophet’s wives has been given by ‘Lankan Muslim, UK’, which should be interesting reading for the many students of Islam to understand the various circumstances of marriage, whom you are allowed or prohibited to marry, what constitutes a marriage – like Mahr transaction etc. These are some of the facts that should be searched out (googled) from internet, before displaying your ignorance and hurting the sentiments of all Muslims in one go.
I think the people at CT are also to share blame for the mischievous intent of bringing such Muslim religious news into focus, since such fanatics are waiting to maul or character assassinate the religious leader of whom they know nothing about. What I like to tell them is just let Muslims be at peace with themselves and their religion, and may be even focus on other religions and issues for these fanatics to feed on.
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gamini / September 1, 2012
Iithi, when you find difficult to defend the conduct of your Prophet and your Imaginary Religion Islam, you try to blame CT for mischevous intent. Is it not you all who tried to advertise that Islam is the fastest growing Religion and tried to woo others under the fold of Islam? When things get hot for your ilk, being exposed the bigotry and no where to hide, you cry and complain like little children. Be man for once and stop blaming CT which is a medium for open debate and discussion and we live in present times where you Muslims have taken residence all over, trying to propergate your faith, whereas earlier you all lived in the deserts, under the scortching heat unable to think for yourselves.
To quote you, ‘Tell me what religion in the world today, leave aside the atheists, have the solution for solving social issues in societies having female population in excess?’ Now who created this imbalance between sexes to have more women than men? Us? For your information it was your Prophets who created this imbalance as I clearly stated by introducing ‘Jihad’ to Islam and sacrificed all the able bodied young Muslim men in society and I can only think they would have done deliberately to indulge in their carnal desire to their hearts content. Have you all ever wondered why none of the other races in the world have this unique problem peculiar only to the Muslims, where one man takes one woman till death do part? or Divorce? At least now is it clear?
You reluctantly admit that this Prophet of yours took that child of nine years and no sooner she attained puberty married her, merely because her father handed her over. You state, ‘The Prophet thus fulfilled his best friend’s (disciple)desire’. What a character your Prophet is and how generous to commit sex on this child just to satisfy his friend and deriving no pleasure for himself? Then why did he plead with other women to marry him as stated in the above post. Is it also to satisfy others? Were there no other men at that time or did all the old codgers behave like this? I won’t put past him, that he would not have otherwise molested her before that?
Had he been living today he will be charged for ‘Child Abuse’. The good Muslims you all are, why is it that the majority have shunned marrying more or keeping only one woman, is it not because of the balance thanks to modern civilisation? Iithi you can write till the cows come home, but the facts remain, which I have quoted from your ‘Quoran’ to expose the fallacies. You can stand on your head and try to defend but you have no escape from the FACTS in your own Quoran. The language is very clear of the writings and any fool can understand,except you fanatical believers, although you try to twist and turn to interpret otherwise. By the way, check whether George Bush, Tony Blair, Mahinda Rajapaksa, Gotabhaya Rajapaksa’s names are mentioned as Prophets in the Quoran somewhere in small print, like in the Insurance Covers?
The only thing that I am happy and welcome in Islam is preventing the Muslims from consuming Pork. If not we lesser mortals will not have even a piece of bacon or a sausage.
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Ilthi / September 1, 2012
In further reading, you question the prophet’s judgement regarding equality status for both men and women. To tell you in plain english, there is no such thing as equality status, which is a modern farce of the West which you too have latched on to. Both, men and women have their own unique characteristics, in regard to their duties and responsibilities in maintaining peaceful coexistence within the family unit, without one trying to outdo nor do the others job. One is neither superior nor subservient to the other. Mentally both may have equality in faculty for purpose of making fair judgement, but physically, they are created differently. Basically, a woman’s Masjid is in her home, while a man’s is out in common gathering like the local Masjid. Men are women are not permitted to intermingle in Masjids (like as in temples and churches), since this promotes promiscuity, through unnecessary eye, or physical (touch or body) contacts from either sexes, thus causing distraction from the main purpose of the visit, which is concentration, fervency in prayer and worship. The Masjid is a place for religious observances, and should remain so forever. Men and women, when put together in one place, is like petrol and fire close together. Anything can flair up at any time, and Islam recognizes this fact, and the laws are crafted around these basic known facts. In Islam, sexual intercourse is permitted only after marriage. and only with ones married partner/s, otherwise it becomes unlawful and is a punishable offense under Islamic Law.
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Riyas / September 1, 2012
@ gamini, I was born to a Muslim family in Sri Lanka and now resident overseas. There are no Mosques around close by here where we live and have not been that religious also. My wife is the samw and dresses as a Westerner and will be horrified to be dressed in a hajib. We are well settled down here with our children. Both my parents are dead and so my wife’s. I have been a silent reader of CT for some time and I never fail to read your posts, well written on Politics or Religious. I find your posts more interesting than some of the news clips. I did not give that much thought on Islam but after reading your posts I have my doubts, and I find difficult to believe what is said in the Quoran. Thanks for the education for many like me.
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gamini / September 1, 2012
Riyas, I appreciate your candid sentiments and I feel flattered. As Whywhy said there are many who Independently think but all are frightened to talk. What I am wondering is whether I have opened the flood gates.
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Mohamed Marzook / September 1, 2012
Gamini, you get flattered and enjoy when you find that someone supports your views on the subject under discussion but show hatred and anger and not accommodative to reasons strong however they are when someone contradicts you. Reading your comments on the subjects of ‘Kissing Buddha’s Statue’ and ‘Is Ranil Gay’ you seem to be soft and calm and even accept others reasons. Why is this difference? Is this not because of your negative attitude towards Islam and Muslims?
On the subject of belief in God and Prophets I note that you are of the negative thinking. To be frank, although coming from a Muslim background my association with rationalists, followers of Philosophers, Marxists adherents and such kept me away from strictly following my faith. I found it to be alright then. But in later stages when I had to face challenges those associations were not giving confidence and peace to my inner mind which is more important than the satisfaction achieved from material availabilities. Searching for a source to have the former more engagements revealed to me that it could be found only by strengthening my belief in God and the Teachings of the Prophets. So already being some sort of a Muslim I strengthened my belief in the Al-Mightly Allah and the Teachings of the last Prophet, Muhammed (Peace be Upon Him). Darwin and scientists, Bertram Russell and Philosophers , and the like would have and would talk of evolution and nature, and if they are asked about the performance of a pen; would say the nib writes as there is ink filled in the pen and it flows, the body of the pen moves as the fingers operate it, the fingers functions because the muscles move, the muscles move as the brain directs, the brain directs as the cells function, but they will not be able to answer the final question: How did the cells come into the brain? The answer is God. May the Al-Mighty guide you in the correct path.
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Mohamed Marzook my friend, you say I am flattered and enjoy when some one acknowledgs what I say, while I am soft on issues as Kissing the Buddha or Is Ranil Gay. Marzook re-read my posts I have shown the mockery on both posts. What harm can result, simply kissing an object, man made that is supposed to represent Buddha? Even if someone keeps a statue in bed and goes to sleep with it, that is his or her business. As for someone trying to insinuate RW or even you for that matter, I will stand by and strongly condemn and object slander. On the other hand if you indulge publicly, there is very little I can do. Similarly if someone brings out irrefutable evidence to prove RW is Corrupt and Dishonest as the other Jokers. That is it. No longer I will defend RW but treat him with the contempt he deserves. I have never sought accolades or recognition in life but I stand for TRUTH, HONESTY and JUSTICE, and it applies equally to anyone, whether a family member or not.
Marzook, I have no objection for you being Religious, If you derive some kind of solace and comfort to meet the uncertainities of life, to give you that required confidence. As for me I have that confidence built within me and I do not require man made Religions with absurd magical fete, with no credible evidence to prove. As I have said before, there are many things around us hapenning without explanation. Truely marvellous. That does not mean, it is the work of a man made God. I live the same or better than many who do believe in a God, without believing so. So there is no Logic why I should. Then again I see some of whom who are fanatical believers, suffering physically, mentally and financially. WHY?
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asif / September 1, 2012
Gamini, man, amazing, how Ilthi has tried his level best and gone to great lengths to expound, explain and clear misconceptions to you, but it seems like you have closed the door and thrown away the key to your upstairs, therefore leaving all of Ilthi’s explanations stranded. How sad! All what we are asking you to do is light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.
Anyway, man, am I delighted to learn that you have finally managed to open the flood gates for people like Riyas who have lost all hope, goal and direction to embark on this long journey with you for which you don’t have a map? Great! I have no doubt that you will be accompanied by your two buddies Salman Muttdie and Taslima Nuttrine. You mind inviting the Al Qaeda guys, Taliban boys and more Hypocrites to join you? We truly have no vacancies for them in Islam. Man, the way you bash Islam north, south, east and west is incredible. These guys would be of great help and would provide you with more ammo for bashing since they are also spending every minute of their life destroying Islam from within. You know like birds of a feather flock together. You may keep them forever and guide them to attain Nirvana! Phew! Some relief.
Talking about Nirvana, I heard that God’s Laundry Manager or somebody promised you Nirvana? Man, that’s a bucket full of snake oil the guy is trying to sell! There’s no Nirvana or Iguana, believe me. There is this one road that leads to an extremely hot place and the other goes directly in the opposite direction which will take you to your ultimate abode of eternal bliss, joy and happiness. Hmm, feels like Heaven. Care to join us? You are welcome! In fact, that is the destination that is waiting for each and every one of us. But where on earth have you decided to go? Come back!
PS. gamini, man, I can’t fight this Islam bashing anymore. I was wondering if it was possible for all the forces of this world to get together, all the armies, all the governments and all the technologies and let them wipe out the 1.6 billion Muslims from the face of the earth! Let there be no traces of Muslims left anywhere and let us fade away from the minds and memories of people like footprints in the sand. End of story, and we’ll score a direct entry into the books of history. Happy?!
The most powerful nuclear weapons will no doubt succeed in BLOWING ALL OF US TO SMITHEREENS BUT THEY CANNOT KILL OUR SOUL!!! Period! Alhamdulillah! I wish you all the best and someday hope to see you again in Heaven!
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Brother Asif, I like your humour without remorse and hatred as others do in discussing a very very touching issue, Religion. Please read my response to Mohamed Marzook above, so that I do nat have to repeat again of my stand on Religion.
As you suggest what I believe is that with or without a map, we will all end up at the same place or who knows whether there is any place at all? It can not be different to you or for myself, or for that matter for one who did good or bad in this world? This Myth of Hell and Heaven is good for children now, although it meant for mature adults as well, in the past. I have read parts in Mihraj, that how those who have done wrong being burnt and again they are born only to be burnt again and the process is continuing. There is nothing mentioned as to how they are born and to whom they are born. With this kind of description of Hell described, the question is that why with all such punishment meted to the wrong doers, if one take stock of Muslims, the villany committed by them is no different to the rest? There is rape, murder, robbery, lieing, adultry, slander, cheating Financially and Politically, committing Terrorism which is common to Muslims as it is Common to others. So there is a clear case that although all are pious Muslims, still felony exists among them.
Islam was born in the Middle East at a time there was rampant poverty and mass illiteracy. Most Muslims were living in tents a Nomadic life. There was no prosperity as seen today, thanks to the wealth from the Oil found. As it had been, the habit of all mankind had been for people to opt to believe in the unseen God rather than on another fellow Human Being and so with Islam. It is for this reason that Buddhism did not flourish in India, but took root in Sri Lanka as a Religion, in the hands of a Clergy who projected Lord Buddha as a colossus, with miraculous ability. In other words as a Super Human Being, for the Clergy to thrive using Buddhism as a Religion with a gullible society.
Asif, I am amazed at your self as a devout Muslim, taking umbrage with Taslima Nisreen and Salmon Rushidie to introduce them as Salman Muttdie and Taslima Nuttrine for me to take them to Nirvana. Nirvana, is as bad as God and is only a figment of imagination of the myopic. There is no such place as Nirvana or an entity as God. Why is that you Muslims try to herd all virtually by-force through Islam. Why don’t each of you look after your self and leave the rest of Muslims to do as they please in following Islam without trying to force Islam down the throats of others. This is only with Islam and the other Religions do not practice such. The adherents are free to believe but not forced on them.
Asif you say you just simply can not take this Islam bashing any more. I never bashed anyone or anybody. I only questioned how a person in the calibre of Prophet Mohamed being an old man consumate a small child fit enough to be his grand daughter. Whether such act is socially, ethically or Religiously acceptable? You tell me that? Possibly you might say that they were the customs then. Canibalism was also a custom then. Surely Mohamed being more intelligent, to be a Prophet, even if his friend handed her, he should have found a young Muslim as a suitable partner for her or should have looked after her as a child of his, but not resort to taking carnal pleasure out of a innocent, helpless child? This is my question to you Asif? As for the miracles of seeing knowledge and Wisdom in basins concealed in his chest, please refer it to all Muslims and for those Non Muslims who want to embrace Islam.
As for your suggestion to annihilate all Muslims, there has been such God Cults who have committed mass suicides in the past, because some cranks thought similar action would take all to the Creator. Asif redemption is within you, not outside. Look for it my man and enjoy life, in moderation and you will have no regrets, I assure you.
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Ilthi / September 1, 2012
This is no forum to take you on a fair discussion, since you rant on and on, steeped in ignorance. You claim to be an atheist, but to me you are more like Islam basher, with no respect nor courtesy to what all Muslims hold dear and near to their hearts. Only a fool will argue with a fool, and thus, I refuse to rebut your many maligned and vituperative assessments, and leave you to your elements. May Allah grant you Hidayath.
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gamini / September 1, 2012
Iithi, why is this Forum not suitable to take me on for a fair discussion? If you have your facts and figures in place? The problem is you can not commit Jihad in a forum as this. When utterly absurd things are said in the Quoran, like Knowledge and Wisdom filled in basins, where even a child will laugh at. Without side tracking, explain to the readers how one can see Knowledge and Wisdom and how it could be filled to a Basn?
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Seyed / September 1, 2012
Dear Mr. Gamini
I am happy that you took time to reply and it will be the answer from all the people who does not believe in God. I put forward the question, to get the reply from you that, “there are so many things we do not know”. My dear sir, when I read your comment on Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) it was very clear that, you hardly knew him. “There are so many things we don’t know”. Accepting it is the door to knowledge. I refer two books please go throw them, next time your comments will be solid and more convincing.
1. Family of the Holy Prophet by S.M. Madani Abbasi This book will answer to your entire question on Prophet, Woman in Islam, Polygamy etc.
2. The Sealed Nectar – This will give you a very thorough knowledge of his life from birth to death.
Living happily and prosperously in this short life is not for believers. Prophet said: “for believers this world is a prison and for the nonbelievers this is the paradise”. So please do not judge things by this material world. The real life for believers is hereafter.
“So can you explain God to me?” For this request, neither me no anyone else can convince there is a God unless you have an urge to find the truth. For this, the best example is Prophet’s uncle Abuthalib (Means father of desire). If Prophet had the power to enlighten, he would have definitely made this uncle embrace Islam. (This uncle was the guardian from childhood to maturity). Well Allah never enlighten him because he never had the desire, whereas Umar (may Allah be please with him) actually went to kill the Prophet but had the urge to learn the truth Allah has enlighten him and elevated him to be the second Caliph of the Islamic world.
With two verses from Qur’an I would like conclude,
Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.
Holly Qur’an (2: 6 & 7)
Thank you Colombo Telegraph, and dear sir, if you really have the thirst to find God, May All Mighty Allah guide you and your loved ones to straight path.
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whywhy / September 1, 2012
My dear Seyed,
Believing something with your eyes closed and ears shut is one thing and these parts opened is another thing.I believed it because my father
did and led me to believe what he and his father believed.They are not
here to tell me why they believed though I,you and Gamini know why.It’s
very foolish to expect someone of Gamini’s ilk to accept what you and me accepted blindly.Gamini has not rejected his religion to accept Islam.Now your job is to prove,people like you,lithi and Marzook are right and Gamini is wrong.It’s mammoth task for you but much easier for Gamini because you solely depend on quran and hadith while Gamini is equipped with more sophisticated knowledge and experiences of which more than fifty percent is our own negative inputs coming back to haunt us.For me,Muhammad was a great reformer of his time and beyond, without question and his prophecy aside.His message of Allah aside.You can’t be sleeping while the rest of the world is waking up.You don’t want to be in the dark while there’s ample light.You are asking Gamini to read “Sealed Nectar” but you got no idea that your advice is “king of bitters”(kohomba)for him.Say something acceptable to one of his complaints,like “child snatcher”.Quoting from quran and Hadith won’t work here.This guy lithi can’t cope and trying quick exit giving false excuses.
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Whywhy, nice to hear you. I must correct you that I have no Religion to reject nor one to accept. My Religion is my ‘Conscience’. All Religions were born due to the fear man has of death and what happens after and for the misery one may have to face during one’s life. Life is not miserable to all, but for some, for some unknown reason, without exception and not peculiar to one Religion, a race or colour. Seyed says, for the believers this world is a Prison and the Non Believers it is Paradise. He also says that the real life is after death for the believers. Seyed have you heard that a bird in hand is worth two in the bush? Seyed first enjoy the life you have, within limits without being a nuisance or a hinderance to others. That is all to life is, not the unseen nor the unheard as you will never see or hear ever, as there is none who has. Whywhy I truely ADMIRE you. Take care.
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whywhy / September 3, 2012
Sorry Gamini,that was a mistake waited for deletion bu forgotten.
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Seelawathie / September 4, 2012
when I read your comments, I think majority of lankens are just buddhists, because their parents pursuaded them to be Buddhist adherents not by conviction.
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Seelawathie / September 4, 2012
that is the reason why many just exist – not reacting today… bending their heads to MR and thugs…. ours are more passive than any other folks in the regions.
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gamini / September 4, 2012
Seelawathie, you are absolutely spot on. All the Buddhists in this country are Labeled Buddhists only. There is no Clergy nor a Laity through conviction. Buddhism as a Religion serves the purpose of being identified with the rest who claims to be the Majority. Buddhism is a means for individuals to feel they are not isolated and all alone.
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Jamal / September 2, 2012
The subject of the discussion is “Forced Marriages”. The writer expresses the fact that even though the Tenets of the religion is against forced marriages some peoples’ practices go against this teaching.
Gamini straying from the subject, in his first reply disparages and vilifies the character of the Prophet Muhammed calling him names in violation of condition 1 of the terms of the comments policy. His repeated calling of names in different manner to rouse the feelings of the adherents of Islam amounts to persistent trolling and mindless abuse in violation of that same condition.
To quote his psychopathic charge, he states and I quote “It is hillarious to note the Old Devil preaching the scriptures of marriage after himself keeping a young girl of nine years in his custody and consumating her at fourteen, merely because the father of the girl handed over her custody. What Justification can there be, when villainy is committed by the Preacher himself?” unquote.
I state that this marriage was one of the greatest blessings for the adherents of Islam. It is from the Lady Ayesha, who gamini refers to as a child bride, that we have compiled much of the Hadith to guide the Muslim faithful. Her scholarly verdicts, her contribution to the advancement of Islamic knowledge, and her service to the religion is un-paralled among the women in Islam. It is the belief of the Muslims – whatever gamini’s warped and demented mind ascribes it to be – that this was made possible due to the early companionship the Lady Ayesha enjoyed with the Holy Prophet of Islam. If gamini has any other lecherous explanation, then he does so without adequate proof and he should refrain from slander .
Gamini’s diatribe against the Prophet amounts to rabble rousing and comes only from one used to gutter language, a charlatan masquerading as an intellect but a very sorry one at that. In another thread I reminded him to keep the level of discussion at an intellectual level. The debate between atheists and theists is quite an old affair. One’s belief is one’s own based on each individuals experience and rationale. You cannot force your views on others as much as you desist from accepting the other’s point of view. Is gamini challenging the fact that the tenets of Islam do not permit forced marriages? It is apparent that he wishes to portray the Prophet as lecherous, and hence he does not accept the conclusions of the writer of the article. I have noted that in all discussions pertaining to Islamic topics, gamini strays away by not focusing on the subject. He always wanders away to do some Islam and Prophet Mohamed bashing. The reader is invited to go through other threads of discussion on Islamic topics and you will find the wandering psychopathic mind of gamini detouring away from the subject to do some Islam bashing. When I stated previously that there were large numbers of people accepting Islam in spite of his vile rhetoric, including people at all levels, priests of other religions, PHD’s, top celebrities amongst others, his reply was I quote “For your information many of those converts are turning to Muslims, because of wanting to marry the second or third time as other Religious Orders do not permit so. These old codgers are merely following your Prophet Mohamed trying to satisfy their lust and nothing else.” Unquote
This gives an insight to gamini’s warped thinking. The likes of Goethe, Davenport, Sarojini Naidu, Mahatma Ghandi Thomas Carlyle, Annie Besant, Gibbon, Bernard Shaw, Napoleon Bonaparte amongst a host of others, who praised the character of the Prophet of Islam must be turning in their graves to be challenged by this charlatan.
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Jamal, I understand your ire in the presence of your Blind Belief and all those who do so except some. What I have raised is a matter of Common Social Etiquette, in sellecting a partner in life. There is no dispute now of the age factors of the Prophet over sixty and the bride at twelve years no sooner she attained puberty. You go on to claim that this Lady Ayesha has been a great source of inspiration to Islam that have helped to compile much of the Hadith to guide the Muslim faithful. Her scholarly verdicts, her contribution to the advancement of Islamic knowledge, and her service to the religion is un-paralled among the women in Islam. Yes definitely, this would have been so, had Prophet Mohamed brought her up with care and diligence and endowed her with the knowledge of Islam, what you claim. Yet the position of Ayesha being used by Prophet Mohamed, young enough to be his Grand Daughter is not acceptable to any common decent person, although the likes of names of people whom you have mentioned from Goethe to Napoleon Bonaparte to have praised Prophet Mohamed, the act of child seduction is not acceptable in todays context with Laws on Child Abuse. Advertise this fact to the present day Society and see the response you receive, leave alone my warped thiking.
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Ilthi / September 2, 2012
I wish to apologize to all Muslim readers of this Forum, for displaying my ignorance by portraying my own personal opinions and views, in trying to rebut some of the wild and scurrilous accusations made against the Prophet of Islam. Sometimes, I feel quite guilty for not doing enough, and for walking away in the heat of it. I cannot bear to read the baseless and vicious attacks made against Islam, and I recognize that I was partly to blame, for bringing up those contentious issues. I am sure there are more highly learned Ulamas and Mufthis amongst your midst, more capable of laying out the facts, in order to address the issues raised. But I can assure you that my resolve and my Imaan has not dimmed a single bit, and I shall strive in future to avoid getting into such religious discourses with the little knowledge I possess, and for ‘letting the side down’. aPlease bear with me and forgive me on my shortcomings. Allahumma Maghfiathuka.
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Mohamed Marzook / September 2, 2012
Brother Ilthi, it is a well-known fact that ‘Islam and Muslims’ has become a widely discussed and debated subject since 9/11 when all ‘anti-Islam-Muslims’ fearing the growth of Islam, which is becoming a strong detergent against all the ills caused to humanity by every such thinking that have only material objectives. It is the advocates and promoters of such objectives, who stand to lose benefiting from those, have launched attacks of various forms on Islam and Muslims. When such attackers are numerous who make use of all avenues available in the public domain we Muslims are only a few who engage with them. However, it is heartening to note that more Muslims, like you and Jamal, are emerging and devoting your knowledge and time to make those who are misled about Islam and Muslims understand the truth. But it is difficult to deal in these columns of the vastness of knowledge imparted by the Holy Quran and the Sunnahs of Holy Prophet (Peace be upon Him) which are again numerous guidance for the well-being of the human race. As such it will be only fair and reasonable for those who have negative views about Islam and Muslims and are misled to take time
and effort to educate themselves more on the subject than expressing pre-determined and objectionable views picking-up a verse of the Holy Quran here and there or an odd practice of the Muslims. Yet, let us make our efforts for the sake of humanity in the name of Allahuthlah who has cast on every man the duty of leading another on the right path. Still, THOSE WHO HAVE CLOSED THEIR MINDS COMPLETELY TO PREVENT EVEN A BIT OF LIGHT TO ENTER WOULD CONTINUE TO LIVE IN DARKNESS.
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Iithi there is nothing for you to apologise to any or to feel dejected. Stand up for what you are worth. Knowledge is a process of sifting fact from fiction. To acquire Knowledge see through your own eyes, hear from your own ears, feel from your own pulses, use your own intuitive mind. Your life is not someone else’s, to be dictated for you to live according to another, because then why were you born at all? Give meaning to your life.
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Ilthi / September 2, 2012
gamini, the only common factor between us Muslims and you as Athiest, is we both say ‘There is no God’, we Muslims add ‘but Allah’, whilst you add ‘at all’. So you probably have our Allah’s grace to some degree, since you don’t profess to believe in any God, which is better than believing in any other God besides Allah. Everything else is poles apart.
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asif / September 2, 2012
Ilthi, if your sole intention and objective in life is to seek only the pleasure of Allah Almighty then why sit and worry about what others say or think about you? Given up already? Man, just do your job!! No body could have done it better than you, jamal, marzook or lanka muslim. Some of these Ulama and Muftis in our country, believe me, they are worse than those jokers sitting in our parliament and calling themselves rocket scientists!
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Ilthi / September 2, 2012
Thanks Asif for the compliment, but it is difficult to reason out when someone has so many issues ranging from the mundane to the sublime. I know it is a ‘war crime’ to quit the battlefield and desert your friends. But the situation here is more like mad men shouting and arguing making no sense to each other, in the midst of haranguing the Prophet of Islam (who isn’t here to defend himself). Of course it falls on us to defend his actions including Allah’s Deen, with the limited knowledge we possess. May Allah be pleased with our efforts. What I say is, saner counsel must prevail if we are to get anywhere with this, and therefor I reiterate, a Forum of this nature will not suffice. The issues are wide ranging and cannot be dealt with in just a few words or sentences. Those on the periphery are bound to be influenced by what they read, and this dialogue in no way helps their cause, except create confusion and more questions. Ultimately, Out of fear myself, or, I don’t want to be a reason, nor a part of it, for anyone to leave Islam, but rather, enter into the fold of Islam. If I cannot quite see that happen, I will chicken out.
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Ilthi / September 2, 2012
Jazakalla brother Marzook for the encouragement. I usually can maintain my sanity even under pressure, but when someone attacks the bedrock of my faith, Deen-ul-Islam and Prophet Muhammed (PBOH), I cannot bear it anymore, and feel guilty if I am the reason for writing something to bring it on. Once it gets on this public forum for the world to see, it mskes it worse, since whatever that is written negative of Islam and its viewpoints in such derogatory manner, will only exacerbate the issues by inhibiting doubts into the minds of those with lesser or weaker Imaan (on the fence). I fear Allah and don’t want or intend to be a reason for causing this situation. Okay, I accept, we all need to do our part for the sake of Islam, for if we don’t, who will do it? After more careful and further consideration, if I do wish to contribute again, it will be possibly under a different pen name.Please include me in your Duas.
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Jamal / September 2, 2012
Gamini, how on earth could you state that I am a blind believer and you are rational? You do not know even my background. I have had a wonderful education, worked abroad and moved with people of many cultural backgrounds, of different ethnicities and religions at various social and intellectual levels. With this background I have had many very interesting discourses with various personalities. I have never ever had anyone tell me that I am a blind follower of my faith. I have never heard any one talk of any religious leader disparagingly. Again it is with this background I pleaded with you to make our discourse at an acceptable level of decency without calling people names. If you do not understand something in Islaam which might look abhorrent to you – that’s fine. You got to respect other people’s cultural norms and accept them even if it does not fall in line with your standards. Marriage customs vary from country to country and from age to age. You cannot use your yardstick of today according to western norms and lay down a hard and fast rule so that anyone falling short is termed “uncivilized” or “barbarian”! Do you know that polyandry the practice of one woman having many husbands was practiced in the Kandyan areas not very long ago? That Mahatma Ghandi slept with naked women to practice brahmacharya? We cannot blame Lord Buddha for the Kandyan practice nor the Hindu deity for Ghandi’s experiment. As for the standards of the West, please do not preach to me or anyone about their moral standards. They will cry themselves hoarse against polygamy but cheating on their wives and having myriads of lovers is acceptable for them. Similarly to many of us in the East, gay marriage is reprehensible but the West is slowly accepting it as “progress”.
You say and I quote” “Yet the position of Ayesha being used by Prophet Mohamed, young enough to be his Grand Daughter is not acceptable to any common decent person”.., “, the act of child seduction is not acceptable in todays context with Laws on Child Abuse. Advertise this fact to the present day Society and see the response you receive, leave alone my warped thinking.”
Gamini, you are old enough to know the difference between marriage and seduction. What people think in this age about their marriage does not matter especially of those whose prejudiced agenda is to blacken the name of the Prophet. The people of the Prophet’s (On whom be peace) time, including his erstwhile enemies accepted it, so why should you worry? As for decency and your crusade for it I would like to you to spend your energy to reform the Pahalagama Somarathana’s of Sri Lanka. There are quite a lot of misguided ones who do not respect the robe they wear.
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Shahul / September 2, 2012
Dear Gamini, first of all I like to congratulate you for denouncing your born religion which you found not worth. Really it is a big achievement. I know you have gone through some of major religions including Islam. I have a doubt whether you have gone through Islam with a proper channel. As an atheist you say “There is no God” and as a Muslim I have to guild you to say “But ALLAH”;
a) Atheists think they are very intelligent and use today’s science and laws to prove their point, but they CAN NOT prove there is No God. Can you?
b) While Islam is with vast knowledge and guidance, the haters/bashers are trying to find some pebbles out of a big mountain to attack Islam.
c) Most of the Islam hate sites are with full of lies and out of context. Most of Islam bashers getting points from these sites to attack Islam.
d) You were asking why God is not showing himself or why not sending other prophets. The answer to this question is what Islamic “shahada”. You have to BELIEVE there is no god but ALLAH and Prophet Muhammad is the LAST messenger. (I hope you know the meaning of “believe”) This world itself is a test. If he shows himself where is the test?
e) The God (Allah) created the earth and the human, to guild the human he send lots of messengers and last of them is Prophet Muhammad.
f) The religion is what taught the human what is good and bad, not the today’s laws
g) You are hell bend to prove the point by comparing present day society and the (Government) law with the 15 hundred years ago society and the law! It is like asking Why Prophet Mohammed didn’t use a BMW instead of Camel…
to be cont…..
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Zulfee / September 2, 2012
Prophet’s Marriage to Aisha (Ral.) is becoming a famous topic amongst the critics of Islam. Whilst discussing this, they completely ignore the traditions at the time and the fruits the blessed marriage brought.
The Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)
Morality is relative not absolute, it varies from culture to culture and society to society. What is perceived to be moral in USA may not hold to be true in other parts of the world, such as Africa and Asia. Morality is also relative to time, fornication/dating little time ago was regarded as taboo and a matter of shame for the family. However, now this is a common habit, dating could start as early as at the age of 10. Another example would be dress code, which was very modest in history but not so now.
Therefore, we need to analyze the age of marriage in history and judge Prophet’s marriage from there. Historically, the age at which a girl was considered ready to be married was puberty; this also was the case in biblical times. In an article called “Ancient Israelite Marriage Customs”, by Jim West, ThD – a Baptist minister writes:
“The wife was to be taken from within the larger family circle (usually at the outset of puberty or around the age of 13) in order to maintain the purity of the family line. It should be noted, however, that in biblical times females married at an early age.”
Even in our times in certain parts of the world the age of marriage is still relatively low. According to a survey done recently on the age of consent in Mexico and Philippines is only 12. In Guyana, Japan, South Korea, Spain and Swaziland the age of consent is 13. Hence even in ?Today’s Times’ a young marriage is not abnormal, as some critics think.
Should the people of United Kingdom, where the age limit is higher, be correct in slandering the people of Philippines/Mexico where the age limit is much lower and thus married at young age? Of course not! Or if within few centuries the age of marriage rises up to 20, then should those people have a right to slander those who lived at our times and married before 20? By the same token, we should not criticize the marriage of the Prophet based on the norm of our time.
It ought also be noted that Aisha ( RA) was engaged to Jubayr son of Mut’im before Prophet Muhammed. This indicates the age of marriage and engagement in Prophet’s time. However, the engagement was later nullified by Jubayr’s parents due to Abu Bakr (RA) embracing Islam.
Thus the history demonstrates that the age of the marriage was lower and relative to olden times, the marriage of the Prophet was not abnormal and there was nothing immoral about it. It was a norm at biblical times to be wedded at puberty or earlier, the age of consent one century ago in a ‘modern country’ was as low as 10 or 12, even in USA – Delaware! Even in our times, in certain societies, the age of consent is as low as 12 or 13. In the light of historical evidences, the marriage cannot be criticized.
In addition, Aisha (RA) was exceedingly intelligent and had a formidable memory. She had profound knowledge of Quran and Sunnah She narrated over 2,000 hadith (at least 2,210). Abdul-Hamîd Siddiqî writes in a book entitled Sahih muslim
“She [Aisha] developed into a spiritual teacher and scholar, since she was remarkably intelligent and wise. Her qualities help support the Prophet’s work and further the cause of Islam. Aishah, the Mother of the Believers, was not only a model for wives and mothers, but she was also a commentator on the Qur’ân, an authority on hadîth and knowledgeable in Islamic Law. She narrated at least 2,210 ahâdîth that give Muslims valuable insights into the Final Prophet’s daily life and behaviour, thus preserving the Sunnah of Muhammad(P).”
Abu Musa al-Ash’ari says:
“Never had we (the companions) had any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her”.
It is commonly accepted by Muslims and non-muslims (un-biased) that Prophet in no sense indulged in “exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape” or even came close to it. There is not a single reference to indicate that prophet was involved in any such act. In addition, Prophet waited for Aisha (Ral.) to mature and reach Puberty before the marriage was consummated, this obviously is contrary to the characteristics of a pedophile.
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whywhy / September 3, 2012
Zulfee,you provided the most fitting defence though everything you said
was not really needed or arguable which I don’t want to go into detail But you started brilliantly.This is what’s expected to make a sensible point.You saved my time and thank you for that.
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gamini / September 3, 2012
Zulfee, so you are the smart one who manged to counter how and why, Prophet Mohamed contracted marriage in the bibilical times. You even succeeded in saving the day for Whywhy, as otherwise he also would have got riddled.
Zulfee all what you say is accepted. According to you, this Ayesha has been betrothed to Prophet Mohamed at six years, three years younger than others did, and Prophet Mohamed consumated her at nine years, again five to six years younger than others claimed her age, where it was said, she was consumated at fourteen or fifteen. Now tell me when Prophet Mohamed consumated marriage with Ayesha at nine years had she attained puberty? Possibly you will say yes. However, be that as it may, you also stated that this same Ayesha was engaged prior to Jubayr, son of Mut’im, possibly when she was four or five years. Zuflee I agree that not only in the Bibilical times, even now there are child marriages fixed between families around this age of young children or even younger. They are child to child marriages and certainly not to old codgers over SIXTY to SEVENTY years old. Whywhy is this your fitting defence, which you applaud Zulfee for, in your post above? Good you did not come out with it as I would have had to shoot you down.
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whywhy / September 3, 2012
Gamini,first of all I thank you for your admiration of my stand
on many posts.My lines,I made very short to thank Zulfee of his time, at a time others were just wasting time with typical boring and irrational defence.My few lines indicate I’m not in line with everything said by Zulfee.Most striking lines of Zulfee that caught my attention are, para three,five and six.Very simple and historical facts.I wanted to get your attention on a similar line but with different quotes and evidence.For instance,according to William M Watt, the British historian,Muhammad was looking to strengthen ties with his friend Abu Bakr through the marriage of Aisha.And another British historian,Colin Turner goes a step further to say that child marriages such as this were relatively common in Bedoin societies and he suggested that such marriages were not seen as improper in a historical context.Edmund Leach argued that no one definition of marriage applied to all cultures.
You must be knowing Gamini that King Senerath married Kusumasana devi the widow of Wimaldharmasuriya,for the Kingdom.When Kusumasana Devi first married Wimaladharmasuriya,she was under thirteen.This is four centuries back.Just in the 20th century Kennedy’s widow Jacqueline married Onassis for security reasons. These incidents clearly show that marriages didn’t happen solely for sex.
So Gamini relax and read my lines to Zulfee carefully before you try to waste your ammunitions.Again,thanks for your time.
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whywhy / September 3, 2012
Gamini,one correction to your post to Zulfee.Muhammad was not in
his 60 or 70 when wedded to Aisha,he was 49 0r 50.Thanks.
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gamini / September 4, 2012
Whywhy could you kindly let me know at what age Prophet Mohamed died, and how he died? Besides the marriages you mention of King Senerath or Jacqueline to Onassis would have been driven through other extranuous reasons, more than the physical desire. But never a similar situation parallel, where a child at six years to be betrothed and consumated the moment she attaines puberty. The act is akin to receiving a gift of a pet and once the animal is big, kill it for food.
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whywhy / September 4, 2012
Gamini,Muhammad died at the age of 62 or 63,most believe 63 and he
died of illness which lasted three to six days according to various sources.His first marriage was when he was 25 and Aisha
lived with him for 12 to 13 years,to his death.Can I also please
ask you to read my lines again to get the right picture I tried to
give you.Kusumasanadevi reference shows you two causes for her two
marriages.One for her age and the other for the Kingdom.Originally
she was brought to Senkadagala to be married off to a Portugese
Army General,at the age of 12 but Wimaladharma killed that plan
and took her hands.In Jaqueline’s case I very clearly state that
it was for security reason and not based on physical desire.So the point I make is,marriges can and do happen for reasons other
than sex since times before history recorded and up todate.But
usually any interpersonal relationships,intimate and sexual are
acknowledged.I think Gamini I have provided enough reasons for you to have a better view.These are not from quran or hadith but
different cultures at different times.Western boys and girls want to taste as much as they can before and sometimes even after
marriage.And they start at the age of 11 or 12 while there’s law prohibiting the act.Thanks Gamini take care.
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gamini / September 4, 2012
Whywhy thank you for the trouble for finding the information. I googled and read through Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthell’s Biography on Prophet Mohamed. No comments, lest I stir a Hornest’s Nest. Your years seem to vary a fair bit, then again you say you have provided without reference to the Quoran. Fair enough. Thanks once again.
I understand the point you are trying to get across, it is one off incidents but not as many as here. So if I go to explain makes no difference and it is not worth it. Let bygones be bygones. Take Care!
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Krish Vandort / September 3, 2012
Zulfy,
I was wondering why Mohamed got married to such a young child, knowing very well she will be widowed soon after his death… Isn’t it contradictory when you guys say Mohamed got married to many widows as he wanted to help them?
Last point, it was said Mohamed allowed men to get married to many women as long as he can treat them all same…Fairenough & commendable !
But how on earth he said to be staying last 9 years of his life away from other woman but with Aisha ?
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Shahul / September 2, 2012
h) From your point of view I am still at safe side, I believe in God and pray to him so after my death I am safe, even there is no God still it is ok. (Astahfirulla) But after your death if the god is there, you are gone….
i) As per your rational thinking I can use even 1000 girls with their approval but can not marry 4 of them?
j) Also I can do whatever I want without getting caught to the government laws (like most of Sri Lankan politicians today) and I am not answerable to anyone, even after my death?
k) What about Hitler, Pol Pot and peacefully dead dictators? No need to answer?
l) You mean to say us “give up the religion and enjoy life”. I am more enjoying than you. Can you tell me what you are doing what I am not doing to enjoy?
m) (This is not to offend you, sorry) Did you ask from your mother and father DNA certificate or did you provide them to your children? Rational thinking also has a limit. Some time we must go through trust and belief in life, always not with logic and evident.
to be cont…..
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gamini / September 2, 2012
Mohamed Marzook, Iithi, Asif, Jamal, Shahul, Zulfie, Seyed and Lanka Muslim, thanks for the brain storming. I believe address should be to one’s reason and not to one’s sentiments.
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Mohamed Marzook / September 3, 2012
Thanks, let us all remember the words in your second sentence.
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Jamal / September 3, 2012
Gamini, as a parting repartee, we agree! My belief is based on not only reason but on research, authenticated evidence and personal experience.
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gamini / September 3, 2012
Jamal, authenticated evidence is not possible in any Religion but only Belief. Personal experiences as in Superstition can only strengthen Belief.
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gamini / September 3, 2012
Superstition, is strengthened through co-incidence and so is Belief.
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gamini / September 3, 2012
If as claimed that Prophet Mohamed is the Icon of Putiry, the Muslims the World over respect and obey him faithfully, all Muslim Societies should be the most Virtuous and the most Orderly. Is It?
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Mohamed Marzook / September 3, 2012
There need not be an ‘if’; he is certainly the ICON OF PURITY. Perhaps, may be, that all Muslim Societies are not yet Virtuous and most Orderly; for which there are numerous reasons. But the process has begun and the day is not far away that not only all the Muslim Societies but every society in the world would become so based on the principles of Islam.
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gamini / September 3, 2012
Mohamed Marzook, you reluctantly admit that none of the Muslim Societies anywhere, are virtuous or orderly, although boasts off, the Islam Faith. You also state that the reasons are numerous and many. Also you state however the process has begun and the day is not far away that every society in the world would become based on the Principles of Islam. What is the purpose of the whole world being based on Principles of Islam if there is no Virtue nor Order? What makes you believe so that it would, if for the last Two Thousand years there is no semblance and that there will be in the future, leave alone the aspect of the whole world being based on Islam? Anyway Hope springs eternal in minds in the sublime.
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Mohamed Marzook / September 4, 2012
Sorry, if you are deliberately attempting to change the sense of my comment by introducing your word ‘none’ replacing ‘all’. Believe it is a mistake. However, the world is not just an island where a few hundreds inhabit. The world is vast and the human race is vast and keeps growing in number. For this vast humanity all over the vast world to accept a belief within a set period of time is not a possibility. Within the vastness of the human race every individual, every group, and so on have since the human race was created have different beliefs (including God sent ones from time to time for the benefit of man) different thinking different habits, etc. Experiences and lessons learnt from such differences lead to correct thinking and acceptance of the right path which takes time, sometimes long. In the circumstances to claim Oh..it has not happened so far and will not happen will just be an stubborn argument put forward without seeing reasons.
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gamini / September 5, 2012
Mohamed Marzook, the word ‘none’ or ‘all’, virtually denotes the same meaning here. Whether you say all the Muslim Societies or none of the Muslim Societies ammounts to the same. There is no deliberate attempt on my side to change the sense of your comment. You say the world we inhabit is not an Island with a few hundred, but a vast place where the Human Race keeps growing in numbers. We all know that. What is not clear is when you say that, ‘the vastness of the Human Race, every individual, every group and so on have since the Human Race was created have different beliefs. How could this be if the Humans were created by God? because then all will have the same belief? Therefore it is very clear that this God whom you reffer to, has had no hand in creating any Human Being and further the munltiplication of the Human Race is in the hands of the Humans? Then as for your belief that just because, for two thousand years there is no reconcilliation, to believe that it will not happen is wrong without seeing reasons, you can wait another million years even, their will never be any reconcilliation among humans, judging from what is happening. What I foresee is that all Religions will lose it’s glimmer in the very near future, may be within the next fifty to hundred years.
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Jamal / September 3, 2012
Gamini, here we go again! Don’t forget we are on different wavelengths. OK my concept
of authenticity is any report of a saying or action of the Prophet (on whom be peace) has to have a chain of reliable narrators from the Prophet (on whom be peace) to the stage of final scripting. The narrators must be known to have an unblemished record of character and erudition. The narrative has to pass this stringent test and be classified on its level of authencity by a highly qualified specialist in this field. I believe no other religion has a test for authenticity as Islam does and so your ignorance is understandable. As for experience then no one can explain except the one who goes through it. Your intuition might lead you somewhere perhaps in your case up a gum tree!
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gamini / September 3, 2012
Jamal, earlier when I spoke of your blind faith you tried to explain your upbringing, your credentials, employment here and overseas, associations with men of emminence, your discourse with intellectuals of high calibre and none had spoken of you as a blind believer. If you are not a believer blind or otherwise, is it that you personally knew Prophet Mohamed or God Allah? The answer is no. Then you like any other has to rely on Belief and belief alone. There is nothing concrete that you, nor anyother can offer as evidence on Belief or for that matter there is none, none whosoever, who has ventured to the unknown, departing from this life has contacted or come back to confirm your belief. In such a scenario, I may use my intuitive knowledge to rationalise but as to who will be up the Gum Tree is not difficult to fathom. As for the different wavelengths, the twain shall never meet. Good Day to you.
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Prophet a Polygamist / September 4, 2012
Prophet married 12 women, hence a polygamist. If he had lived with them for 60 years, giving equal time to each of them , each woman would have had seen Prophet for only five years. Is that fair? Abolutely not, total adulthood is wasted of these women.
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gamini / September 4, 2012
It is difficult to calculate the time allocation for each wife, in the manner you have suggested, without knowing exactly how old he lived, and also without knowing at what age he married first. Further according to the list of Prophet’s Wifes and Marriages forwarded by Lanka Muslim, you find under list 3. Muhammad (S) married the daughters of his two closest associates, Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab. Therefore there are two wives here and the total number adds up to thirteen in that case. According to the information of above, the Prophet had lived with his first wife for a period of twenty five years, thus the time periods for others have to vary accordingly, unless all stayed together.
In an earlier post when I commented that Prophet Mohamed had considered the males and females as equal and why the females are treated differently not allowing to participate at prayers in Mosques then, and now are accomodated on a side, Iithis had this to say in his post of September 1st 2012 at 7.12 a. m. ‘In further reading, you question the prophet’s judgement regarding equality status for both men and women. To tell you in plain english, there is no such thing as equality status, which is a modern farce of the West which you too have latched on to. Both, men and women have their own unique characteristics, in regard to their duties and responsibilities in maintaining peaceful coexistence within the family unit, without one trying to outdo nor do the others job.
Now I will quote from Lanka Muslim’s post on top of the Wives and Marriages, where Prophet has categorically stated so. ‘As the Prophet’s dealings with his wives were based on love, affection, respect and dignity, others in the society were expected to follow his exemplary behavior. Men and women were declared equal in the eyes of Allah’.
The last sentance, ‘As mentioned earlier the Qur’an stresses the moral and spiritual equality of men and women in emphatic and unambiguous language’.
What I find is that many who come forward to defend Islam seem hardly knowledgeble and will find very difficult in the future, when more and more start to question Islam, leave alone any embracing other than those who convert for convenience as mentioned already.
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Jamal / September 4, 2012
Gamini, your last reply is a rather puerile attempt at rhetoric. The concept of God is that no human can see him. Buddhists by your logic cannot believe in the Buddha since they have not seen him. If you were at the receiving end of police beating and suffered pain, would you not expect the any judge hearing the case to accept your pain on the evidence of your bruises? If the judge were to say I cannot see any pain so I cannot accept your complaint what would your reaction be? So pain is something you experience and cannot see. Still people will believe you on sight of other evidence. So sight perception is not a necessary sine qua non for belief. The sun to the onlooker is slightly larger than a football but would you not accept that it is many times larger than the earth and extremely hot? You would not want someone to go with a measure tape and a thermometer before you believe? Or would you ??
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gamini / September 4, 2012
Jamal, with due respect, I am not trying to belittle your knowledge as you have already stated that you have had a wonderful education and have worked here and abroad having mingled with the Best of Intellectuals, that your comparison of trying to base that according to my Logic that if one can not believe in the unseen God then similarly Buddhists can not believe Buddha as well, because the present day Buddhists have not seen him. Jamal, the fact remains that Buddha was a mortal and is part of Human Civilisation and God is not. I trust at least now you understand the difference between Buddha and God?
Your hypothetical position to explain God, your parallel indicates your inner desire, if I happen to be beaten by the Police, thankfully not by the fanatical Muslims as they would not only stop at beating, but would kill me with relish. The Judge to go by evidence of Pain and not by evidence of injury, how in the world according to your Logic that Judges decide on Police Assaults on pain rather than on evidence as bruises and broken limbs, baffles me. May be because I am not that intelligent as you are. However your equation that ‘Pain is something that can not be seen but only experienced is equal to, belief of God who can not be seen but experienced, is way out. Therefore your other parallel of the Sun is more comic than the last, hence I’ll spare the reader.
In a post above I have requested, for some one to reveal details of Prophet Mohamed, as to his age at the time of his death and as to how old when he got married first. I doubt very much whether any one will volunteer, due to the turn of events. Therefore I Googled an article, a Biography of Prophet Mohamed by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthell. According to this article the time of the 1st Revelation He has been 40 years old. There after he has lived for another 10 to 12 years, where he dies of food pisoning. According to rough calculations, Prophet Mohamed as a young lad serving in the Merchants Carvan of a wealthy widow Khadijah 15 years his senior marries her. Prophet Mohamed when he marries Khadijah should be around 16 yrs. and Khadijah should be around 31 yrs. and a further 26 years where they stay married, means Khadijah when she dies should be around 57 yrs. Prophet Mohamed was around 40 years when he receives the first Revelation, Khadijah should be around 55 years. It is said after the 1st Revelation Khadijah took Prophet Mohamed to see an uncle of her’s and there is no mention when she dies. Obviously a couple of years later as 12 years later Prophet Mohamed dies. Accordingly Prophet Mohamed dies between 52 to 55 years old. Yet again Prophet lives for a period of 9 years after consumating marriage with Ayesha. So he would have consumated Ayesha when he was around 47 years and does not make much of a difference on the age factor between a 47 yr marrying a 9 yr old. What is relevant is that Prophet Mohamed marries the balance twelve within a period of 10 yrs. Of the balance 12 wives, the 11th reproduced below shows something not compatible with a Prophet being ‘annoyed’ realising that both her parents were Jewish.
11. Maymunah bint al-Harith
Maymunah’s first marriage resulted in a divorce, and her second husband died, making her both a widow and a divorcee. One of the Prophet’s close companions, Abbas proposed that Muhammad (S) should marry her. He agreed, demonstrating that it was no longer a stigma for a woman to be both divorced and widowed. They felt it would be inappropriate for her to be assigned to anyone other than the Prophet. She was occasionally the subject of sarcasm because of her Jewish parentage. Whenever the Prophet became aware of this, he showed his annoyance.
I will not comment further on Islam but would leave it for others to read and digest, not for those who wants to convert themselves for convenience but for those inspired on faith.
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Jamal / September 5, 2012
Dear Gamini,
Really in the midst of a very busy schedule I have taken a lot of time to scotch mischievous and wrong beliefs and slanderous statements about Islaam and its last Prophet. Notwithstanding this you have hurled various accusations, perhaps based on your ‘intuition’ that I am a blind follower among other charges. Before you allow intuition to take over your mind, and analysis, you need to study the facts of a person you are trying to confront. To help you I gave a little background of myself. I posted those comments about me which you are harping on repeatedly. Please do not waste space and time as it is there for anyone to read. As regards my example and your conclusion of my inner desire (based on your intuition perhaps) you are way off the mark Gamini, I do not wish you any harm. This I say from the core of my heart! The example was apt I thought as we are living in the era of the “White Van”. Yes fanatics might relish on their “kill” be they Muslims or Buddhists. Fanatics are outside the pale of Islaam and Buddhism. It is inconceivable that the Prophet Mohamed or the Lord Buddha will allow what is being happening in the name of their Religions. As regards Buddha and God – to the best of my knowledge this was never under contention or mention. Why try to infer a connection where none exists? This is another sad diversionary tactic of yours.
As regards the facts you requested I will let you know soon. However your last para on the Prophets ‘annoyance’ bewilders me. Please remember that the Prophet and his wives and his companions were all human beings. They had the same feelings and emotions that you and I have. Their superiority over normal human beings was that they could control emotions better than we do. Their sense of Justice, compassion Honesty, Truthfullness, charity was legendary and that was their outstanding quality. As regards Maimunah being referred to as a Jewess, the Prophet comforted her and told her that she was of a lineage of bibilical prophets and the wife of a Prophet which gave her very good credentials! So that comforted her.
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gamini / September 5, 2012
Jamal, what we write here as posts are read by many others and mere denials or trying to offer different interpretations afterwards, will have little effect. You say you have taken time off from your busy schedule to scotch mischievous and wrong beliefs and slanderous statements about Islaam and its last Prophet. Yet you go further to establish the fact as to who you are, to remind me that you are not just a person, when I address you. But when I mention, who you are in my response, you say that I am harping on it and I need not waste space and time to do so, as it is there for others to see. So then why bother mentioning about it at all? Why did you feel shy and embarassed that I mentioned? As for the parallel you drew, you say that I am way off the mark and you do not wish me any harm, from the core of your heart and that you were prompted merely because of the present culture of the ‘White Van’ era. Jamal, it was precisely due to such mind set prevelant that I questioned you on those lines? However if you assure me there is nothing of that sort, I take your word for it. Thanks!
It was a redeaming feature, of your acceptance that there are fanatics of Religion, in relishing killing, in both Islam and Buddhism, in this day and age, in this so called civilised society which is very sad. If Religion being pratised for the last two millenia and yet the human problems and attitudes remain the same, to expect all to embrace Islam as the only Religion that is true and for society to be virtuous and orderly is nothing but a pipe dream, where even among the Muslims there are many name sake Muslims as stated by Hade Sheriff in his post below.
To a question that I raised in general why God sends no more Prophets now and the last was 1400 yrs ago, is it that God no longer cares about his subjects or the God was unaware that humanity will continue? This is the ideal time for a Prophet to descend as the entire human race is so curious. Unlike in the past today Prophets will be tested and they will not be just believed. Therefore is it any wonder why there are no Prophets today as there are no valid reason to offer.
Hade Sheriff, is it only the non believers who commits, incest,sodomy, homosexuality, Consume Alcohol and all the vice? Shows your level of intelligence and knowledge.
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Hade Sheriff / September 5, 2012
I wish to remind all atheist (Non Believers of God), Islam has fine set of rules & regulation for Human beings to lead a honest life, the fear of God is watching our move is laudable for mankind its the non believers who commit incests ,sodomy, Gay, Lesbianism, Consume Alcohol & molest their own daughters & sisters, murder , robbery, greed for power & prestige, cheat, & usury which is forbidden in Islam, most sins are committed by hypocrites who has doubt about God including name sake Muslims.
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whywhy / September 5, 2012
Sheriff,Have you ever heard that Saudi Arabia itself has got around nine hundred thousand Atheist among its population?Can I also ask you to go and check the mosque that you belong,to see how many Allah sake
muslims come for Subah (morning)Jamaath prayer or at least Subah prayer
Sheriff,can you please enlighten us of your yardstick which serves you to identify the Allah sake muslims?Another simple basic question,who do you think introduced or revealed Allah to you and to this world?The topic being discussed and seeing a comfortable end is,FORCED MARRIAGE AND ISLAM and you completeley failed to contribute an iota on the topic and instead trying to display a swollen head.
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Hade Sheriff / September 6, 2012
@WhyWhy
You have trampled your tail accusing me of swollen head which is out of context.
I was referring my comments to Atheist like Gamini, Saudi Arabia having atheist, People attending Subah prayers is irrelevant it depends on their ability & belief (Iman), Religion is belief on Allah or Jesus Whatever it is,
My point is Islam guides humans for good conduct, healthier life, coming to the subject which you have blown it as big issue, ISLAM NEVER PERMIT FORCED MARRIAGE, AntiIslamist always cling to the underage theory Aysha given in marriage to Prophet Mohamed SWT.
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gamini / September 6, 2012
Hade Sheriff, what is out of context is your inability to understand that the present day Muslims see through Blind Belief, propergated by the Blind like you. I know it is hard for your ilk to stomach. But that is the Reality. Leave alone the whole world embracing Islam, as I said elsewhere all Religion will be history in another Hundred years or so. This world ending as prophesied by some Prophets is like waiting for the Sun to burn out.
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whywhy / September 6, 2012
Sheriff,just look at your post on the 5/9/12.You landed on atheist
hypocrites and called upon, name sake muslims.I can see your anger
at criticism of our religion and its prophet and in the chase you forgot to stay within a limit.There were already more than sixty
exchanges and reaching a better understanding of the focal point.
The more you try to say you are the best and the rest is less or
not at all,the more tests you must be ready to face.I can only tell you that my questions are highly relevent to whatever you have stated on your comments.I give you only one example.”Saudi
itself has got around nine hundred thousand atheists”.You can ignore this if you want to.But the intelligent world looks at it
with greater interest because it’s the land of the prophet of Islam and if you are not a name sake muslim,you must be worried too.Sheriff dear,you are saying that I have trampled my tail.I am
not going to take you to task but only asking you to find answers
and keep them to yourself.Look at how Gamini is responding with all fexibility where necessary and the way you tried to start back from page one.We had already gone the distance.Look after your long tail Sheriff.
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Simon / September 5, 2012
I wonder why you guys have only been busy with arguements based on a god..
So long no sufficient references are available, why to bother with proofs –
Every religion is based on beliefs..
I guess, Gamini might be confused in his post malignant phase… …
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gamini / September 6, 2012
Simple Simon, your ire is understandable judging from your name. All God believers are in the same boat without exception. But at some point or other, Reality has to be faced. Then you will know who is confused whether it is myself or yourself.
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Jamal / September 6, 2012
Dear Gamini,
Adherents of every religion believe that their religion is the most perfect ! Otherwise they won’t adhere to their religion. This is fait accompli. So Muslims like wise believe so. No harm in that too. Now to answer your dilemma and I quote “
To a question that I raised in general why God sends no more Prophets now and the last was 1400 yrs ago, is it that God no longer cares about his subjects or the God was unaware that humanity will continue? This is the ideal time for a Prophet to descend as the entire human race is so curious. Unlike in the past today Prophets will be tested and they will not be just believed. Therefore is it any wonder why there are no Prophets today as there are no valid reason to offer.”
Our belief was that every nation had its Warner or Prophet. These prophet’s were parochial in their mission. They had initial success but as you pointed out in another thread personal opinions took over down the line and corruption set in to such an extent that it virtually changed the whole complexion of the original message. Muslims believe that the world will end sometime. Hence their was a final Messenger whose mission was Universal and that was Prophet Mohamed. Hence after his arrival the count down started for the end of the World. Here I must point out that the same feature of personal opinion and corruption set in giving rise to schism. The Prophet foretold that Islaam will be split into 73 sects and 72 will be doomed to hell as their concepts will be corrupted and they will stray from the pristine teachings. The Quran states ( THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION Surah 2 v 256) so no one can compel anyone to believe in Islam period. We believe that the moral teachings in Islaam are sufficient for salvation till the end of this world and hence the finality in Prophethood. Of course you are at liberty to believe or reject – that is your prerogative. I can neither say that you or for that matter myself are doomed to hell as that is the prerogative of God ( whom you disown and I wholeheartedly believe). One final statement, Muslims believe Jesus did not die on the cross but was raised to heaven and he will come back ( Christians refer to this as the second advent ) to confirm the message of Islaam at a time chosen by God. All this is our belief and I presume conjecture to you. So as the Quran says ” unto you your belief and unto me mine” Surah Kafiroon.
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Jamal / September 6, 2012
Dear Gamini, as History tells us no leader has had followers practicing according to his guidance. From the Lord Buddha down to the Prophet Mohamed inspite of the moral code or sublime philosophy they preached there were people who rejected them even in their own lifetimes. Whatever opinion you may hold, at least we must give them credit for giving us a structured code of behavior to improve the people’s intellectual or spiritual well being. But the drunkard will cling to the bottle and fornicator to his weakness and only motivation could change their habits. Their message therefore provided that motivation.
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gamini / September 6, 2012
Jamal I am not trying to flatter you, but I truely mean that I am happy to see your transformation in attitude and stance from someone who was not willing to accept any critisism on Islam at first, to accept that there are fanatics in all Religions who not only oposes any one who question but also distort the very faith of their belief thinking they are doing a greats service. In reality they are doing more damage than good for their own belief. I certainly concede that I have no right to move you away from your faith, which was not my intension, merely because I have a different view point, as such, each one of us have the freedom to choose one’s faith. What I believe is, leave it in the hands of Time, and things will be resolved.
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Jamal / September 7, 2012
Gamini thank you for your comment. However if you go through my replies I never took cudgels with you for your critism of Islaam but only that you chose to call the Quran and the Prophet ( on whom be peace) names. If I took up the cause for Islaam then it was to show that such a noble person who sacrificed so much for his people, nay for mankind as a whole, could not have any base or vile qualities. I hold the same view for the Lord Buddha, for Jesus Christ, for Moses too. The belief in God necessitates a priori that he must be the same God of all, even of you whether you believe in Him or not. So when we show our love and extend our mercy it must be to fellow human beings: not Muslims to Muslims, Buddhists to Buddhists etc. So even though the atheist and the theist differ, there are common grounds to unite. If this can be achieved people of different religious beliefs can also find areas to unite instead of probing differences that give birth to conflict. I believe that you are not racially motivated and you took umbrage against Islaam because of the very un-Islaamic practices of some of the radical and misguided elements of Islaam. Anyone has the right to criticize but let us do so on un-shakeable facts and without unnecessary offence to others.
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Hade Sheriff / September 7, 2012
Hey why why
Why are you hiding under a nick name like a coward, gentlemen’s never hide their nationality, it confuses me to judge you, it looks you are annoyed at the word name sake Muslims, there are millions of name sake Muslims in the world which we don’t care you may be one of them, including Arab & Muslim leaders in the world, we plead to Allah to reform them & make them practicing Muslim , with the preaching of Ulamas & Islamic scholars many are practicing Islam the proper way mashaAllah.
For your ignorance about the attendees for Subah prayers just go & check it out in Colombo Masjids around Grandpass , Maligawatte, Madampitiya, Bambalapitiya,Wellawatte , & Dehiwala, area, it looks you live in faraway cuckoos land with Munafiques & Infidels which has made you to doubt the creator Allah, our prophet has predicted anyone mingles with infidels for more than 40days he becomes one of them, we can excuse your God like icon Gamini but not you if you have betrayed Islam.
Though our Prophet Muhammed SWT was born & bred in Saudi Arabia we don’t follow the Monarch or that country as role model for Islam, it should be practiced with Ihlaas in any part of the world, thousands of Atheist living in Saudi is immaterial to the true believers of Allah, we need Saudi to perform Hadj only, very soon we will get rid of all power hungry leaders in the Muslim world & establish Khilafah starting from Syria (see Khilafah,com) or English hizb ut-tarir.org. Your Icon Gamini is predicting like a soothsayer as all religion will evaporate in hundred years, well I challenge him within 75yrs whole world will become Islam (Its our prophets saying too.) just look at the world now itself Islam spreading like wildfire.
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Hade Sheriff / September 7, 2012
Every action & every subject has critics in this world, just like the Donkey tale where Father, son & donkey got criticized when passing village after village.
There are critics in Islam too, we are unmoved neither fear, Religious arguments has no end I am not an Islamic scholar or Mufthi, people like Zakir Naik is the best choice to face Atheist & nonbelievers of Islam he too is banned in many countries as his speech is converting thousands to Islam.
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whywhy / September 7, 2012
Hey man Sheriff,
Come out of your precipice slowly like Saddam did.I’m living in cuckoos
land or Dengue land,is not the issue here man.The issue here is answer
my questions with responsibility.Yes true man a new Islam is emerging
killing practising muslims in Beruwala and last month even destroyed properties in Gintota just for saying Kalima in funeral.Who are you man to judge who’s muslim and who’s not?Anyway how does anyone know that you are Hade Sheriff?At least I made it known I’m under a pen name and that’s accepted and published because it’s allowed.You are trying to hide your stupidity by making the whole issue personal.The best joke one can ever here about Srilankan muslim’s piety is that Colombo has the most pious muslims.When was that survey taken man?What else colombo muslims are well known for?I don’t want to come down to your level of belittling my community where ever they live.You are without doubt a super idiot to imagine that living in Colombo is not living with non muslims.Someone else will appear with nice suggestions with their original name and stamp against stirring up hatred among communities in the name of religion while living among non muslim majorities.The doubt must be, not about me being a muslim but about you hiding in a muslim name.
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Hade Sheriff / September 7, 2012
@Why Why
Come out with your Identity then I can show who I am you damn coward
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whywhy / September 7, 2012
There you are, the real coward,admitting to disclose his stupid real name.Now get back to your Dengue base.Yes man you must be in need of lot more IDs to live in your Dengue den.
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