3 March, 2024

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Genocide Of Palestinian Began Since 1948

By Latheef Farook

Latheef Farook

The ongoing United States – European supported Israeli genocide of Palestinians and destruction in Gaza is not the first of its kind. These war mongers  committed similar  massacres in Deir Yassin and Kafr Kassim in 1948  to drive out Palestinians from their homes and lands to  plant Israel  there.

Since these war crimes continue unabated from time to time.

In the case of Israeli occupied Gaza too US, Britain,Europe openly supported  earlier  Israeli genocides  as part of their overall programme to ethnic cleanse Palestinians and annex Gaza with Israel to create Greater Israel to control and loot the Middle East.

As it is happening  now  in Gaza Arab tyrants, installed in power and protected by US and Europe, have sided with Israel by turning blind eye.

For example on 27 December 2008 Israel, using the most sophisticated and most destructive fighter planes and weapons supplied by United States and Europe, committed genocide of Palestinians in Gaza .

United States, Britain  and Europe fully supported Israel then as they are doing in the on going Israeli barbarity in Gaza which began in wake of Hamas attack on Israel on 7 October 2023.

During the 22 days of carnage, Israel killed 1,334 Palestinians  one-third of them children ,injured 5,450, displaced 100,000, made homeless 50,000 ,destroyed 4,100 residential homes and buildings, damaged 17,000   buildings,,destroyed 29 educational institutions, including the American International School, destroyed or damaged 92 mosques,1,500 shops, factories and other commercial facilities,20  ambulances, ruined 35-60% of agricultural land  and caused an estimated damage of  $1.9 billion .

The destruction was suspended only in time for President elect Barack Obama to take his oaths as the new President of the United States. The response of the world then to this Jewish barbarity was same as it is now INDIFFERENCE.

Then US President George Bush who spent his entire eight-year term invading Muslim countries and killing Muslims , supplied Israel with the latest destructive weapons, in the same way President Joe Biden is supporting Israel with military, political, diplomatic and financial support in its on going genocide and destruction  now.

Then British Prime Minister Gordon Brown blamed the Hamas, but failed to see anything wrong in the Israeli barbarity. He refused to call to halt the massacre leave alone condemn  or deplore. He and his government stood fully behind Israeli crimes as British Prime Minister of Indian origin Rishi Sunak is doing now

European Union also supported Israel, Russia, failed to take any active part in saving the Palestinians from Israeli bombs. China was no different to Russia.

India, once the so-called friend of the Arabs and Palestinians, abandoned the Palestinians and the present BJP Hindutva government support Israeli genocide in Gaza.

The so called Arab heavy weights, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, were hand in glove with Israel to please their  master in White House. George Bush  thanked both Egypt’s Hosni Mubarak and Saudi Abdulla for their support to Israel in slaughtering Palestinians in Gaza  to eliminate Hamas and install Palestine Authority, quislings in power. With  Egypt and Saudi Arabia turning a blind to the sufferings of Palestinians Israel had a field day to continue its genocide in Gaza.

There are 22 Arab countries with a population of around 325 million. They have unlimited economic and military power with an estimated $ 400 billion worth of weapons that made the weapons industry in the West flourish. Yet when the Israeli genocide began, no one lifted a finger to save the Palestinians.

Instead, some openly and others secretly, collaborated with Israel. For example, President Hosni Mubarak openly declared that, “Egypt will keep its border crossings with Gaza closed until  Hamas was removed and Mahmoud Abbas enthroned in power. He told a delegation of European foreign ministers that Hamas must not be allowed to win its conflict with   Israel.   

Blackmailed by the United States  and  Europe the developing countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America remained helpless spectators. Only Venezuela and Bolivia condemned the Israeli genocide, closed the Israeli diplomatic missions and expelled the Israeli ambassadors there.

Aid convoys came from London. It was the people from the West who challenged Israel when they brought the much-needed food, medicine and other supplies to the Palestinians. The British Parliamentarian George Galloway, British journalist Yvonne Ridley and numerous others travelled  more than a month with an aid convoy of more than 100 vehicles carrying food, medicines and other essentials to Gaza. However there were no Arab aid convoy.

A four member Fact Finding Mission headed by Justice Richard Goldstone, former judge of the Constitutional Court of South Africa, was appointed by the President of the Human Rights Council to “investigate all violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law during military operations in Gaza during the period from 27 December 2008 to 18 January 2009″.

In September 2009, the 575-page Richard Goldstone report that documented evidence of shocking Israeli war crimes  on the Gaza Strip was released. Israel was rightly terrified of the report, mobilizing all its diplomatic and political resources to discredit it.

However that report is still gathering dusts  .

Mahmoud Abbas sold the Palestinians by helping Israel to bury its crimes in Gaza. The PA helped Israel wash its hands of the blood it spilled in Gaza for financial gain of businessmen closely linked to Abbas.

However exposing even more insidious form of Israeli blackmail Shahab news agency, reported that PA/PLO representatives in Washington were persuaded to drop their support for speedy action on Goldstone report after they were played a videotape and an audiotape, reportedly recorded during the war, in which Abbas and a key security aide, Tayyib Abdul-Rahim, both urged Israel’s leaders to continue and even escalate their attack on Gaza.

Fifteen years later today Israel  is committing worst type of genocide and destruction in Gaza with the full support of US and Europe while Arab dictators  side with Israel. Despite ICJ ruling Israel  continues to slaughter Palestinian  new born babies, children, teenagers, men, women and the aged with the full support of so called champions of human  rights and democracy in Washington  and Europe.

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  • 13
    25

    Thank you Latheef.
    When did Tamil Genocide start?

    • 12
      26

      Anpu! Tamil soft genocide was started by DS.Senanayake in 1948 with the colonization scheme at Amparai which was continued by all successful Sinhala governments without exception. Even the so-called leftists cried from the rooftop two languages one nation and one language two nations, succumbed initially by soft logical means to Sinhala only as an official language and Sinhalese only for colonization of the Tamil areas. Subsequently, all political leftists LSSP and Communists included) became the joint architects of the Constitution to deprive the Tamils of their rights by soft genocides. In between, physical genocides commenced in installments from 1956, 1958,1961,1977, 1983m and the final genocides

      • 10
        23

        (Continued from above). Commencement of large genocide started during the civil war( suspended in 2009), supported by India, Pakistan, and China. Not excluding the West by their silent observation, without any protests, against the war without witness. Once again silent genocide has commenced using Soft Colonization and the destruction of Hindu temples. What Next?

        • 1
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          KV
          Remember that only Indian troops killed Tamils in Sri Lanka.
          Why have you left out the US and Europe? Did they not support the war?

          • 1
            13

            Please read the 2nd part of my comments.

      • 10
        16

        Thank you Kanapathy. I asked the question to see if Latheef noticed what is going on for Tamils in Ceylon and then in Sri Lanka.

        • 10
          14

          I am sure Latheef may be aware of the double dealings of the Tamil-speaking Muslims from the time of Kariapper of Kalmunai followed by many others. They contested in the Eastern province on the I T A K ticket and immediately after being elected by the votes of the Tamils changed over to the government side. Even though they are Tamils practicing the Muslim religion they seldom accept it. Please note that Muslims all over Sri Lanka speak Tamil at home- Point pedro to Hambantota. They pray in Tamil and Allah understands it.

          • 3
            13

            Latheef Farook is an Islamic fanatic, who is blind to atrocities committed by Muslims on others. Worst racists in the world are Muslims and the worst racism in Srilanka is the claim of Muslims to eastern province where they went as refugees. Muslims committed murder and ethnic cleansing of Tamils and appropriated the lands. Palestine belongs to Cannans and not Arabs or Jews. Present day Arabs are facing divine retribution for the crimes of their ancestors. Most of the Muslims want Israel destroyed. Arabs tried thrice and failed and this time Iranians are at it. Israel came into existence according to Biblical prophesy and as such Jews will get divine help to defeat Muslims. This is a fight to finish and though Israel will suffer death and destruction, will emerge victorious with Muslim countries in shambles and ignominy.

  • 5
    6

    Latheef Farook,

    Genocide in the present Palestine, commenced a couple of Thousand years ago, long before the land became Palestine after repeated Genocide on the Jews, starting with the Romans expelling them and a thousand five hundred years ago when Mohammad began to spread Islam in the region killing all Infidels..

    • 5
      3

      When were Jews targetted by Muslims?
      Targetted killing was entirely by Europeans.
      Jews who remained in Palestine after mass exodus, lived in greater harmony with Christians and Muslims,

      • 12
        3

        Can those who supported the ethnic cleansing of Sinhalese and Muslims in the North and East side with Palestinians? It’s rather comedic. I exclude SJ from this equation.

      • 4
        14

        Sivasegaram, Muslims did not target Jews directly, but aided and abetted Romans in driving Jews out of Palestine. Thus Muslims are guilty of genocide. Due to divine intervention, Jews had got their lands back from Arab criminals. Jerusalem is the birth place of Judaism and quite rightly should be in the custody of Jews. Muslim claim to Jerusalem on a false pretext as the place where Mohamed went to heaven in a chariot, amounts to racism. Al-Aqsa mosque which is a symbol of aggression and provocation should be demolished. Jews believe that it will happen due to act of God such as earth quake or misguided Iranian missile. They can make it quicker by employing Hindus of India who have expertise in demolishing mosques.

        • 4
          2

          Dr Gnana,
          There were no Muslims anywhere in the world in Roman times. Islam began with the Prophet Muhammad in around 610 AD. This kunu of “divine intervention” has no basis in reality. Do you have any objective evidence for anything that you claim ( and that does NOT include the Torah or the Bible)?
          Calling for the destruction of Al Aqsa mosque is redolent with RSS Hindutwa policies. Maybe you can call on Hanuman to leap from the Himalayas and destroy Al Aqsa with one blow from Thor’s hammer Mjölnir?
          Best regards

  • 15
    14

    Muslims should distance themselves from Hamas. Most Westerners and even Easterners do not know the difference between Sunni and Shia, or even Al Qaeda, Hamas, and ISIS. The biased Western media and Netanyahu portray them as one and the same, so the viewer reaches an obvious conclusion. The problem with Hamas is not that they oppose Israel. The problem is that they oppose the existence of Israel. That is not a starting point for productive negotiations. How can I negotiate with you if I don’t want you to exist?

    The author is right about the 22 Arab countries. They have been bought over with Western money, especially the Saudis.

    “India, once the so-called friend of the Arabs and Palestinians, abandoned the Palestinians and the present BJP Hindutva government support Israeli genocide in Gaza.”

    Yes, India is the loudest cheerleader for Israeli aggression in Gaza. India is cheering louder than the Zionist Jews. It shows that India has no moral standards. This is the same India that facilitated terrorism in S. Lanka until their PM was assassinated.

    • 9
      1

      Hello Lester,
      Hamas is a Sunni organisation similar to the Muslim Brotherhood. Hezbollah is Shia as is Iran. Most Arabic Muslims are Sunni although I met a number of Shia Muslims in Qatar. I didn’t see any discrimination against the Shia Muslims and during the blockade of Qatar, by Saudi, UAE and others, they received a great deal of help from Iran and Turkey. Over the years Qatar has helped the Palestinians and has brokered deals between Hamas and the Israeli Government. Before you decide to condemn Hamas outright, there are a couple of things to consider, first the history of Palestine and the Nakbah
      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/27/palestine-and-israel-brief-history-maps-and-charts
      The second thing to consider is what Hamas actually says in its Policy Document -A Document of General Principles and Policies – May 1, 2017
      “16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.”

      To be continued

      • 9
        0

        Continued
        The English and Scottish Nations had their beginnings as Independent Monarchies in the 9th and 10th Centuries. The Romans occupied England from around 43 AD until 410 AD and the Anglo Saxons from the 6th Century followed by the Danes in the 9th Century. The Border between England and Scotland was much disputed until the Union of the Crowns in 1603. The city of Berwick changed hands many times. A thousand years ago Berwick was Scottish.
        https://www.berwickfriends.org.uk/history/berwick-upon-tweed/
        What do you think would happen if the Scots took over Berwick and expelled all of the English claiming it as a traditional Scottish homeland?
        Nowadays we are bound by the Laws and Conventions agreed by the United Nations following the 2nd World War
        Israel is committing Genocide against the Gazan Palestinians – Gaza was never part of Israel, it was the Philistines that lived there. The killing of Civilians, by Hamas or the IDF, are War Crimes (as are assassinations) and the perpetrators must be brought to Justice. The countries that are supporting Israel are also criminally responsible if the ICJ finds Israel guilty of Genocide.
        Best regards

        • 4
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          Thanks LS
          But sorry to say that it will be water on duck’s back.

      • 11
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        LankaScot,

        Thanks for your input. I agree with you in principle that what Israel is doing amounts to something resembling genocide. Even though there is a clear threat to Israeli security, a threat which Israel says is “existential.” Also keeping in mind, there was a Six-Day War. Had the Arabs won that war, there would be neither an Israel nor Jews in that part of the world. You might argue that the very existence of Israel is illegal. Again, I agree with you. Historically, all of that land belongs to the Palestinians.
        The problem is that Israel has 300 nuclear weapons. It cannot be defeated militarily. Hamas fights very well, but end of the day, Israel has the upper hand. There are tens of billions in monies backing Israel. The only path to liberation for the Palestinians is for the Arab countries – especially OPEC – to use diplomacy. If this doesn’t happen, Israel will continue fighting in Gaza until Hamas is gone, then create a buffer zone there to prevent further resistance.

        • 1
          0

          Lester you agree that the very existence of Israel is illegal. Gen.35,9 says God appeared to Jacob and said ” Your name shall be called Israel” This land was called Palestine by the Romans who wanted to mock Israel with the name of their enemies who invaded the mediterranean coast called the Goliath giant producing Philistines. The Six Day War established the final home coming of the jews to Israel, never to be expelled again until Jesus the messiah comes back in God’s kingdom and the promise to redeem is fulfilled.

    • 9
      12

      Lester

      “Most Westerners and even Easterners do not know the difference between Sunni and Shia, or even Al Qaeda, Hamas, and ISIS. “

      So do the armed forces and bigots of this island who do not know the difference between innocent people and combatant (terrorists).

      What can we do?

      • 10
        8

        Native
        Reminder to help clear your confusion between combatants and terrorists.
        Definition of Terrorism:
        Killing, maiming or otherwise threatening of innocent civilians in furtherance of a political or a military objective.
        .
        (Feeling uncomfortable?)
        .
        Soma

        • 2
          12

          Soma
          “Killing, maiming or otherwise threatening of innocent civilians in furtherance of a political or a military objective.”
          Is Deshabandu a terrorist?

          • 0
            1

            OC
            No, a criminal. Every criminal is not a terrorist.

            Soma

        • 2
          11

          Soma, according to your definition, Srilanka government is a terrorist organisation. Also if you apply the determination of ICJ, Srilanka has committed genocide of Tamils.

          • 0
            4

            Dr.GS
            I have given you the definition. Up to you to find out if a particular organisation fits in as a terrorist outfit. Discuss with your friends.
            .
            Migration is not genocide.

            Soma

    • 1
      4

      “Muslims should distance themselves from Hamas. “
      Is it because Hamas is standing up to the sworn enemies of Muslims?

      • 12
        5

        Hamas cannot win (militarily). Israel will not give up. Do you know the story of Josef Mengele? He went to Brazil after WWII, but had no peace of mind. Mossad followed him until his dying breath. The man nearly went insane, fearing he would be caught. That is the fate of the Hamas leadership. Israel (Mossad) will follow them wherever they are and do targeted assassinations. Two Hamas commanders were already taken out through drone strikes in Lebanon. It’s only a matter of time. The technology and networks are much better now than in the last century.

        • 3
          1

          Hello Lester,

          What you have said begs the question – “Why did their superior intelligence networks not give prior warning of Hamas’ attack on October 6th” Even their infamous Pegasus software failed miserably. I know why but do you?😉

          Best regards

          • 12
            2

            LankaScot,

            I heard a theory that Netanyahu allowed the attacks so that they would lead to a wider war between the US and Iran in the future. In my opinion, preparation is already underway for the latter. If you are familiar with AIPAC, they have been pushing for a US-Iran war, for 20 years. I recommend you read Mearsheimer’s excellent book “The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy” to understand just how influential this lobby is. Mearsheimer predicted Russia would invade Ukraine long before it happened. The West has largely failed in their Ukraine ambitions, to offset that, Iran can easily be the next target, especially given its nuclear and ballistic missile ambitions.

  • 14
    21

    “During the 22 days of carnage, Israel killed 1,334 Palestinians one-third of them children ,injured 5,450, displaced 100,000, made homeless 50,000 ,destroyed 4,100 residential homes and buildings…”
    Up to date figures are available here https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker

    • 8
      11

      At this moment thumbs up 2 and thumbs down 10. The people who voted for down want Palestinians to be wiped out. What a world we are living in. What Hamas did is horrible. Why Israelis are punishing innocent people including children?

      • 1
        0

        Anpu
        Re your: “During the 22 days of carnage, Israel killed 1,334 Palestinians one-third of them children ,injured 5,450, displaced 100,000, made homeless 50,000 ,destroyed 4,100 residential homes and buildings…”
        I was not at all sure whether to post Up or Down. I think that may be the case with many who “voted”.
        I am sure…well, I HOPE, that most people on CT are utterly horrified by and against the massacres in Gaza.

        I am also appalled by people who stand back and say “this has nothing to do with me”. They neither concerned or try to inform themselves about the history of this latest round of death and destruction by Israel.
        /cont.

        • 1
          0

          Cont. 2
          I have just come upon another genocide that I doubt many readers have heard of – The genocide of Ethiopians by Mussolini’s fascists in 1937. The victims there, too, were occupied being slaughtered by their occupiers. An excellent book by Ian Campbell in 2018 estimates 19,000+ were killed in 3 days. And when Haile Selassie approached the UN to investigate, he was shunted away.

          And today, Italy, once again contributes to another genocide — like so many Western powers it ceased funding UNRWA the minute Israel produced yet another round of lies.

          Remember the “40 beheaded babies”! The “multiple rapes” & “other horrors” — all these have been shown up as lies. And yet we still hear them bandied about like truths.

          It is unbelievable that Biden still refrains from calling for a ceasefire. Is it just the shared guilt of the holocaust? or is it because Israel — “westernised” Israel — Israel’s presence in the ME is so crucial for the West? I have finally come around to the belief that the Zionist presence in Palestine is a huge crime. Nothing justifies it.

    • 2
      3

      Why don’t you give some recent numbers, which the author has pathetically missed?

      • 3
        3

        A,
        I am sorry that you have been badly misunderstood by all those sore thumbs.

      • 4
        10

        Recent figures available on the link given
        Here are the latest casualty figures as of February 9 at 11:30pm in Gaza (09:30 GMT):

        Gaza
        Killed: at least 27,947 people, including more than:
        12,150 children
        8,300 women
        Injured: more than 67,459, including at least:
        8,663 children
        6,327 women
        Missing: more than 7,000
        The latest figures from the Palestinian Ministry of Health in the occupied West Bank are as follows:

        Occupied West Bank
        Killed: at least 390 people, including more than:
        102 children
        Injured: more than 4,450
        In Israel, officials revised the death toll down from 1,405 to 1,139.

        Israel
        Killed: about 1,139 people
        Injured: at least 8,730

  • 8
    4

    Since when Allah switch sides?

    Soma

  • 2
    1

    Speech constitutes an important victory in the battle against old restraint. A historic and principled move by South Africa to hold Israel accountable as fighting terrorism is not Flattening Palestine, (ICJ) issued provisional measures,also exposing the truth of history.

  • 1
    3

    LF, It is wrong to kill Palestinians or any others for that matter. It is when terror strikes that Israel becomes violent. Now we are in the thick of this terror situation and Israel will defend its citizens as there is a promise in the bible that Jesus will return to Jerusalem described in Zechariah 14,3 to the mount of olives. If nations lay siege to Jerusalem (not Mecca) the war will destroy them Zechariah 12,2 Many scriptures show the connection of Jerusalem to Eden, garden of Jehovah God where man was created for a purpose to nullify the curse on earth instigated by Lucifer’s lies. Israel was reestablished in 1948 never to be scattered again from this promised land. Bible ends by saying “I am coming quickly” Not war but God decides that date. Looking to Jesus fulfils promise.

    • 2
      0

      Hello davidthe good,
      I don’t know which version of the Old Testament you are reading, but at school we read the King James version. Jesus is not mentioned anywhere in Zechariah or even by name anywhere in the Old Testament. The Aramaic version gives the name as Yahweh or Jehovah in Zechariah.The Jewish prophecies regarding a Messiah are mostly from the writings of Maimonides in the Mishneh Torah, where he describes Jesus as the failed messiah foreseen by the prophet Daniel. This was written in around 1180 AD (or CE if you prefer). By the way most Biblical scholars believe that Josephus’ mentions of Jesus are later insertions. The last book of the New Testament was written around 100 AD so I am afraid someones idea of “I am coming quickly” is obviously optomistic.
      Best regards

      • 0
        3

        LankaScot, Prophet Daniel interpreted King Nebu’s dream to which the king replied in Dan.2,47 “Your God is the God of gods, the Lord of kings, and revealer of secrets” and made him ruler and administrator. In King Nebu’s 2nd dream, his arrogance drove him to behave like a beast. Then he proclaimed in Dan. 4,35 that the Most High (Jehovah) does according to his will in the army of heaven and no one can restrain him. Jesus is mentioned by name in Heb.7,22 with an unchangeable priesthood, ever interceding for us thus making His new covenant not with animal blood of old covenant but his sinless blood offered in the heavenly altar. Heb.9,14. All 4 gospels describe what Jesus did on earth. Jesus did not fail, but humans fail to believe his deeds. The last book “Revelation” shows his coming in our present journey now as we go through it. With kind regards

        • 2
          0

          Sillara David. Here’s some wisdom from someone who was born and raised to be a devout Christian, who subsequently tried many religions.
          This was learned. You will die David, as all mammals do. Your flesh will rot, putrefy, become dust, mingle with the atmosphere. There’ll be no spirit to continue life after you. There’ll be no god and angels to welcome you. No Devils to torture you. No afterlife.
          The wild imaginations of superstitious and illiterate ancients whose fears and hopes were scribbled down centuries later, are just that, wild scribbled imaginations, fears and hopes.
          Now in the time of the internet, smart phones and a whole world of information, it is incumbent that you – and everyone else – educate themselves.
          There’s an all-powerful god in the palm of your hand.
          Pass into Nirvana, or Nothingness, without becoming a silli-silli bag, polluting the world.

        • 2
          0

          Hello DTG,
          Hebrews is New Testament, now where in the Old Testament is he mentioned by name?

          Best regards

          • 0
            1

            LankaScot, OT prophets received from God, all details of the coming Son of the Most High God, but in his geneology in Matthew one as the son of David and the son of Abraham, he is named as Jesus, the son of Mary whose husband was Joseph. Strange that Joseph believed what was in the bible in Luke 1,31 where Mary too believed God that she would conceive and call his name Jesus. If his name was revealed in OT, I am convinced that some usurper would

            • 0
              1

              LankaScot, Sorry… To continue the last, … Some usurper would arrive and call himself Jesus. We too are expected to believe the biblical record and accept Jesus before death.

              • 0
                1

                LankaScot, The meaning of his name Jesus as Yeshua means that Jehovah saves.

  • 0
    2

    LF, You say that palestinians were driven off from their homes and lands in 1948 to plant Israel there. At the beginning of the bible in Genesis 35,10 God told Jacob, that He is God Almighty and is changing his name to Israel. The land given to his ancestors, Abraham and Isaac was given to him too.. Jacob set a pillar and poured drink offering and oil and called place El Bethel. Later the jews were in captivity to Pharaoh of Egypt and gathered by Moses to return through Red sea and Mount Sinai, to their promised land. Later, Israel was in captivity in Assyria and returned. Much later they were in captivity in Babylon and finally returned and got established in 1948 with the promise that they would never be uprooted again. Jesus would finally return to Jerusalem, where the jews will accept their messiah who would redeem them as he had already been crucified for their sins and sicknesses. The war of armageddon and Jerusalem we are now moving into, defeats all who reject the judgement seat of Jesus and hence go into another future destiny.

  • 4
    0

    South Africa speaking for Oppressed
    And the international community joined in for international solidarity
    As it is happening now in Gaza
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win

  • 0
    1

    LankaScot, Sorry… To continue the last, … Some usurper would arrive and call himself Jesus. We too are expected to believe the biblical record and accept Jesus before death.

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