26 October, 2020

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Cattle Slaughter And Self-Immolation

By Laksiri Fernando

Dr. Laksiri Fernando

From a long term perspective, cattle slaughter or animal slaughter in general is something that not only Sri Lanka but also the whole world should get rid of while finding sustainable alternatives for protein or nutrient intake in human diet. There is more awareness in the world today on the subject of animal rights or animal cruelty than any time in the past, for example two decades ago. Sri Lanka and India are best positioned to embrace this understanding than many other countries thanks to their Buddhist and Hindu religious traditions. But this understanding should not be applied superficially or for narrow political purposes.

One of my granddaughters, just nine years old, was showing me recently the similarities between the human face and the faces of many other animals highlighting that we all have similar face parts such as two eyes to see, a nose in the middle and a mouth underneath and two ears on both sides and asking me the question whether the animals do have a brain behind. My answer was instinctively affirmative. This was just few days before the dramatic self-immolation of the Buddhist monk, Bohowatte Indraratna thero, demanding the prohibition of cattle slaughter in Sri Lanka.

Consumption and Restrictions

The World Food Organization (FAO) says that “meat consumption is based on availability, price and tradition.” Meet consumption is held in high esteem in some countries while others deride the practice while indulging in it in some form. When I first went abroad to Canada in 1974, the welcome party for the postgraduate students was flanked by a decorated roasted head of a pig with an apple in its opened mouth. It was despicable to see and many Indian students could not partake in the dinner with disgust. This has become a common practice in some tourist hotels now in Sri Lanka at buffet dinners, I understand. In Japan, many people try to avoid eating meat but don’t have any qualms in approving whale hunting. The world seems to be more complex than what we are willing to admit.

Sri Lanka is amongst the lowest ranking countries in the world in terms of meat consumption along with India and Indonesia, estimated 10 grams per head per day while countries like Australia, Argentina, Uruguay and New Zealand ranking the highest consumers around 300 grams per day. But I have seen many Australian youth, particularly female, becoming vegetarian among the traditional white settlers and not necessarily the migrants. Ironically, however, India is one of the foremost beef exporters in the world. It is obviously not correct to say that India has completely prohibited cattle slaughter.  It varies from State to State, however there is a Directive Principle of State Policy in the Constitution which says the following in Article 48.

“The State shall endeavour to organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle.”

While there are some States that completely prohibit cattle slaughter, others do allow with some restrictions. There are no restrictions at all in States like, for example, Kerala. Most of the restrictions are in line with the directive principles quoted above and the transport of cattle from restricted states to non-restricted or less restricted states is a major problem of law enforcement.

Rules on Slaughter

Almost all democratic countries have adopted rules governing animal slaughter to prevent what is called ‘animal cruelty.’ In recent years Australia suspended live cattle exports to Indonesia and Egypt several times when it became revealed to the outraged public that the cattle slaughter methods in those countries have been cruel. Several media outlets frequently reveal these incidents of animal cruelty to the public.

There are some people who consider the above to be hypocritical, arguing that what is the point in preventing cruelty or having laws governing, if the cattle are anyway slaughtered? The argument is very much similar to the arguments against the ‘laws of war.’ If the war is inevitable and even justified then what is the point in having rules governing human rights or humanitarian concerns during war, or having any breaches or accountability investigated, they argue. It might be important to quote a section of the FAO guidelines on livestock slaughter to understand the underlying logic. This is only a segment of guidelines.

“At the time of slaughter, animals should be healthy and physiologically normal. Slaughter animals should be adequately rested. They should be rested, preferably overnight, particularly if they have travelled for some times over long distances. However, pigs and poultry are usually slaughtered on arrival as time and distances travelled are relatively short and holding in pens is stressful for them. Animals should be watered during holding and can be fed, if required. The holding period allows for injured and victimised animals to be identified and for sick animals to be quarantined.”   

When you go through those concerns very carefully as stated above, it is obvious that we have to admit that animals do deserve their welfare and wellbeing. See the words: ‘animals should be adequately rested’ and “should be watered during holding and be fed.’ Of course, some of these guidelines are for the sake of human and consumers’ concerns, such as hygiene and disease prevention. But if the main concerns are logically extended, we are not far away from preventing slaughter or limiting it first. This is similar to the laws of war, incorporating human rights and humanitarian law and the prevention of war crimes. If these concerns are logically extended and the meanings are properly grasped, then we are on our way to prevent wars altogether and limiting them first.

Both Judaism and Islam have religious laws governing ritual slaughter of animals; nowadays used for slaughter for food with much controversy particularly among other religious believers. The solution may be to have secular laws appeasing these controversies but without imposing other religious beliefs. A major issue in Sri Lanka is the lack of clear secular laws or guidelines in livestock slaughter.

In the United States, the Department of Agriculture specifies the approved methods of livestock slaughter. In the United Kingdom, the matter is governed both by its own laws as well as EU rules. In both systems, inversion of cattle is completely prohibited as it amounts to extreme cruelty and stunning is mandatory before slaughter. These are some examples about how to deal with the issues progressively without resorting to extreme measures overnight creating displeasure and conflict among different communities and also preserving the rights of consumers to continue with their desire to consume meat, if they so wish.

Concerns in Sri Lanka

It was undoubtedly during the Portuguese period in Sri Lanka that the meat consumption greatly spread particularly in the western (maritime) provinces. Northern and Kandyan areas were largely unaffected and the discrepancy still seems to remain. Even within the traditional Hindu-Buddhist social settings, however, the craving for meat consumption remained at least as a human deviation.

During the revival of Buddhism and Hinduism in the late 19th and early 20th century, the issue of cattle slaughter took prominence along with temperance movement. Anagarika Dharmapala and Colonel Olcott were two prominent leaders on the Buddhist side. However, there is no evidence that they or their followers went into the extremes as Indraratna thero has resorted to. In the ‘Buddhist Catechism’ written by Olcott, the importance of the first precept was highlighted to “refrain from destroying the life of [all] beings” including cattle of course and one’s own. Quoting the Dhammika Sutta he further noted:

“Let him (householder) not destroy, or cause to be destroyed, any life at all, or sanction the act of those who do so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature.”                 

Therefore, there is no question that the cattle slaughter or the way the cattle are slaughtered is undoubtedly a major issue for the Buddhists and even for others. It is not completely an exaggeration to say that the newspaper story that the then Prime Minister John Kotalawala indulged in roasting a calf in a barbecue party cost him his position at the next elections in 1956 among other related issues. I also remember the public outrage created when a professor at Vidyodaya (University) proposed rabbit breeding for meat consumption as a solution for the protein deficiency spreading in early 1970s. These issues are undoubtedly sensitive.

However, there has always been some hypocrisy attached to the agitation for the prohibition of cattle slaughter, particularly launched by political parties or leaders. They usually come and go. They are emotional and do not address to the rational mind. One day they propose overnight drastic changes and then all slogans are dropped when other inflammatory issues are picked up. There is no consistency. Worst of all is that these agitations are usually aimed against some ‘others.’ This is particularly the case at present.

During the last one and half years, two extremist groups, the Bodu Bala Sena (BBS) and Sinhala Ravaya (SR), with clear political impunity from authorities, have been engaging in ferocious campaigns against the Muslim religion and the Muslim community, one issue after the other, and the present agitation against the cattle slaughter should be viewed in that context. As a result of this sectarian intention, the universal appeal of the issue of cattle slaughter is almost lost.

Self-Immolation

When Thich Quang Duc, a Vietnamese Buddhist monk set himself on fire against the Dinh Diem regime in 1963, although it could not be condoned, it was understood as a desperate situation given the political oppression in Vietnam at that time.

However, there is no justification for such an act at all in the present situation in Sri Lanka for the cause of Buddhism or any other matter while one may feel troubled by the disorientation of Indraratna thero and agony he must have gone through with his wounds. He didn’t die instantly although over 90 per cent of his body was burnt. It was simple self-torture, quite unnecessary and sad.

Self-immolation is a primitive ritual, the practice of which for political purposes should be condemned as it borders on political violence and even terrorism. It is not personal suicide or simple self-sacrifice. It might be left for the psychologists to analyse the motives behind such an act and it should be done beyond simple condemnation. The danger of such an act is the possibility of others trying to emulate it. It highlights the complexity between the objectivity and subjectivity of human existence particularly in confused political circumstances such as the present situation in Sri Lanka and the danger of the spread of ‘true believers.’ It is a ‘sin’ if not a crime to encourage those people in society.

As Eric Hoffer said, all ‘True Believers’ are characterized by:

“Their readiness to die and a proclivity for united action; all of them, irrespective of the doctrine they preach and the program they project breed fanaticism, enthusiasm, fervent hope, hatred and intolerance; all of them are capable of releasing a powerful flow of activity in certain departments of life; all of them demand blind faith and single handed allegiance.”    

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    Dr Jayasuriya,
    Correct me if I am wrong. Human beings started evolving from Apes when they started eating meat. Before that, all Apes, Monkeys etc were vegetarians and fruit eaters. It is questionable whether Human Beings are on a higher evolutionary level than Apes, and other Living beings including Fish, Dolphins etc, judging by the way that WE are bent on destroying one another. Food for Thought?

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      Sorry I meant Dr Fernando!

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        Sanjay Karuna,

        Let me quote a view from Robert E Krebs (Scientific development and misconceptions through the ages, p. 104) since I am not an expert on the subject.

        “The DNA evidence and comparisons of blood proteins indicate that modern man did not evolve from apes, but rather split off from a common ancient ancestor, most likely by genetic mutations.”

        As far as I am aware, Darwin’s theory of organic evolution does not say that higher animals were generated from lower animals and humans evolved from apes. But if your question relates to the brain development of Homo sapiens, I believe (1) balance diet with protein and (2) involvement in labour must have played a role.

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          “The DNA evidence and comparisons of blood proteins indicate that modern man did not evolve from apes, but rather split off from a common ancient ancestor, most likely by genetic mutations.”

          If Krebs had studied later theories of Evolution, he would have found out that this “Common Ancient Ancestor” evolved in Africa, from the “Great Apes”. Later, Due to a Climate Change that required Hominids to disperse and scavenge for sources of Nutrition other than vegetation alone, enabled them to develop into modern Homo Sapiens with a larger Brain Capacity. I am not advocating a Meat based Diet, because I don’t think that is altogether a good thing. But in Modern Society, the Meat eating West seems to have a ‘Higher’ accepted State of “Development” than the more Vegetarian East.

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            a more vegetarian east, i think, is a wrong conclusion. there are more ‘animal lives’ consumed to sustain the typical easterner than the westerner.

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            and it’s a generally accepted idea that modern apes and humans are cousins in the evolutionary tree. If you would like to call the common ancestor ‘the great ape’ then it’s fine too.

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          Dr. Laksiri Fernando,

          Thanks for gradually educating the people on the facts and Myths.

          Regarding, life, evolution, and survival of the species, a lot of information is hidden in the fossils and in our living bodies,in the DNA.

          Analysis of our DNA, by following the Y Chromosome and mitochondrial DNA, we can trace out ancestry, to 70,000 years ago, about 2,000 generations ago at East Africa. All religions are speculations and myths, not fully substantiated, but there is good moral component to it, and has gone Viral.

          Actually, Humans diverged from Chimpanzees and Gorillas, about 3.5 million years ago,as the weather changed, and with the changing environment, adapted and progressed. Humans still have about 99.7& of the genes in common with the Chimpanzees and Gorillas. In the Caribbean, when Columbus came, the Caribs were eating other Indians from other Islands.The were herbivores and carnivores for survival. The early natives of Lanka hunted for survival, so did the American Native Indians. Now, the humans are doing that on an industrial scale.

          https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/

          Since its launch in 2005, National Geographic’s Genographic Project has used advanced DNA analysis and worked with indigenous communities to help answer fundamental questions about where humans originated and how we came to populate the Earth. Now, cutting-edge technology is enabling us to shine a powerful new light on our collective past. By participating in the latest phase of this real-time scientific project, you can learn more about yourself than you ever thought possible.

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      Why are you always talking abou cows, talk about pigs, birds fish, eggs, plants etc. they also living creature. Logically tell me how somebody in Scandinavia or Alaska can eat survive if they don’ t eat fish or meat.

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      Tigers,lions, hyenas eat meat.

      I can not understand why they did not evolve to humans ?

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        Jim Softy, These animals you quote as examples of human evolution, do not belong in the same branch of evolution as the Apes. If you look at the evolutionary tree, the Big cats etc branched off very early and specialised into a different form of Life, as did dinosaurs, fish, birds, worms and others!

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        Fools like Darwin will believe this. But there is another evolution preached by Buddha: Mann-> Monkey-> Donkey-> Junky-> Man-> Bitch-> Pig-> …..

        Darwin said Man came from Monkey! BUDDHA SAID MAN WILL BECOME MONKEY!

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    Per Day 6000 or more kettle slaughtered, have anyone heard that is shortage of cows.. if they dont Slaughtered then what would be the result? its a Cycyle. if you dont want to eat, let not others to eat, being a doctor you cannot say to be a Vegitarian, then you are killing a Tree as well. Look, its a waste of time for sll of us.

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    Mahayana Buddhism did allow for the self immolation of monks. The Avatamsaka Sutra of the Mahayana school compared that to the lighting of an earthen lamp in honor of the Tathagatha. This explains the tradition in Vietnam and Tibet where it also became a symbol of protest. The Jains had a similar practice of sallekhana – of starving oneself to death. Hinayana or Theravada Buddhism does not have this and would condemn it as it implies the defilement of aversion – of hatred or irritability. The fact that this monk burnt himself to death to protest cattle slaughter was very un-theravada by doctrine. According to Theravada doctrine, he will likely sink into a lower birth at the next round given the aversion that he had experienced in his last thought moment.

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      What you are righting is BS.

      Buddhism main theme is non-violence.

      that is non-violence oneself and everybody including even the microscopic animals.

      Monks are supposed to filter water several times, in order remove microscopic organisms, before drinking.

      but, every where buddhism reached it mingled with the country’s culture and created it’s own version of buddhism.

      For example, chinese buddhism mingled with Taoism. Japanse buddhism led to Samurai War tradition.

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        You idiot if you filter the water for microscopic organisms they will die without water, and you will do with those microscopic organisms. Keep inside lab. Ha ha .

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        Sotty is is giving a new explanation for violence in Buddhism! Anyway He could not hide the fact now! All these days they were telling Buddha never preached violence and Buddhists never practice violence. When they were proved wrong, they are trying to find reasons! What a shame. The fact is Buddhism preaches violence and it is practiced by Buddhists all over the world irrespective of country, sect and culture! Buddhism is polluted water and there is nothing to filter in it!

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    I don’t understand how they will stop cattle slaughtering in long term perspective. So if this is stopped in biologically cows will be over populated than human or it will be extinct. Nature has design the animals like Cow, Fish, goat to be eaten. No matter whatever the population is they are still alive in large numbers while animals like tigers, lions, elephant are facing threat of extinction. my view is people should see these things in a practical way not from a eyes of Racist… or blind religious way..

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      Quite right Sameer, and further, slaughtering cattle makes an ecological balance. If no slaughter is allowed and it is banned, then culling will need to take place, which is also killing (like in Australia culling of Kangaroos). So where has Buddhism got the solution for these issues? They simply say ‘ban cattle slaughter’ but what is the solution for excess cattle that will create food competition, obstruction to vehicular traffic, the air filled with dung stench and a fake demand for meat even though cattle is available in plenty.

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        There is always a natural solution to these problems.Natural disasters! Tsunami is an example.

        What are you going to do about the overpopulation of the planet by humans? Family planning does not work.It is only a short term solution.

        If there is over breeding of a species there will be competition for food and the ‘survival of the fittest’ will apply and the ecological balance will prevail.Buddha knew this before us!

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      This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn’t abide by our Comment policy.For more detail see our Comment policy
      https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/comments-policy-2/

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    Buddhist Tibetan monks unable to bear the cruelty of their Chinese oppressors have often resorted to self-immolation. It puzzles me as to why the JHU or BBS or any other of its supporters never bothered to take up the cause of the Dalai Lama or his oppressed masses. Where were the protests, the speeches of hate, the violence and anger when hundreds of Tibetan monks set themselves on fire from time to time. Are the lives of Tibetans less valuable than those of cattle here.

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      Leave alone their not being bothered to take-up the cause of the Dalai Lama or his oppressed masses, are they at least little concerned of the various vices that are taking place in Sri Lanka that are violations of the basic principles of Buddhism. It can be clearly understood that they resort to all these actions, each time on a new issue which have no connection to one and another, with political motives. They do not want to hurt China on the Tibetan issue and they are propping-up Buddhist sentiments to keep their political representatives in power who are fast losing their popularity.

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      China annexed Tibet for political reasons and security. That history has nothing to do with Buddhism!

      Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia never allow other religions. If a Buddhist worship or have a picture of buddha, he will be given 200 lashes in public.

      Will the Sri lankan Muslims voice against the Arabs to stop punishing other people for their religious beliefs? How many Lankan muslims went against the beheading of people?

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        that’s why you should read news. a whole lot of lankan muslims went against the beheading of rizana nafeek.

        in saudi arabia even vesak is celebrated. in dubai there is a hindu temple in operation. anyway, the question had nothing to do with arabs or islam, why did you pick on islam :D

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          Rizana was a Muslim. So, few Muslims cried but not condemned the practice. But maintained silence when a Buddhist or Hindu get lashed for praying! That is the question! I think you too believe the non-muslims must be punished for their religious beliefs!

          In Dubai Pakistani girls are dancing in night clubs too!

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            one instance where Buddhist or Hindu get lashed for praying?

            In Dubai Pakistani girls are dancing in night clubs too!
            how does that support your islamophobia?

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            Do send your maharanis (princesses)to wash the dish and ..to a Muslim country. Shameless fellow.

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            Buddha started to dance with Topless Hot Sexy Girls at the age of 8 or 9. His father provided him with this comfort to keep him focused in the Kingdom!

            God (?) Krishna had 16,008 wives and in addition to this huge number he had the habit of looking at the young girls who bath in nude! Anee, What a naughty fellow is he?

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        So you wanted all the Muderers, rapists, child abusers. Kasiippu mudalalis to be freed? It is the law of that country. One of your singhalsese fellow has mudered another Singhalese in Abudabi and the muderer’s ahead is going to be chopped there on 30th of this month. The victim’s, Buddhist, family does not wanted to take the blood money ans free the Buddhist Muderer. This news was in yetedays Daily Miror. So where is your Philosophy? You wants murders Drug dealers out, like Duminda Silva ! If you have the guts ask Duminda to take just 5 grams of drugs to Saudi and come back with his head!

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          A Canadian Muslim of Saudi Arab origin killed a man in S/Arabia but he was released after five years jail term!

          Where is your “head chopping” philosophy?

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            Moda Thakkaduruwa, Siva,

            If it was Saudi his head would have been chopped. Not even his, if it was you, your head would have chopped and you will be without a head now!

            Dumida Silva, after killing (?) 4 in public, never went to remand prison even for a day!

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        Even if you become a Buddhist your payments will remain the same.

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          No one in this world will like to re-born as an anima!

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        “China annexed Tibet for political reasons and security. That history has nothing to do with Buddhism!”

        But the fact of the matter is that the people in “the Tibet that China annexed for political reasons” are persecuted to the point of their immolating themselves. And these people are Buddhists, dont forget. Then why are the Buddhist monks in Lanka immolating themselves over cattle-slaughter here when their own kinsmen are being slaughtered almost daily by the Chinese aggressors in Tibet? Are their lives less important than those of cattle in Sri Lanka? That is the point.

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          Tibetans kill themselves for a LAMA Politics and not for Buddhist beliefs. But Rev.Indurathane died for his religious belief!

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            So, Buddhist are killing. They are not killing for nothing. They are killing as preached by Buddha in the Nirvana Sutra!

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    How about Killing PIG and Eating?
    How about Killing Chick Birds and eating.
    Why BBS not talking about this ?

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      Benedict,

      “How about Killing PIG and Eating?
      How about Killing Chick Birds and eating.
      Why BBS not talking about this ?”

      BBS, J Harak U, Sinhala Ravaya do not love them?

      1. BBS, JHU, and Sinhala Ravya are Racist Organizations. Currently, their racism is directed against Muslims, and therefore, the Cattle, is the excuse. Chicken, pigs, etc. do not count in this racist and religious discrimination equation.

      Religion is the opium of the masses- Karl Marx. Myths.
      This is called the religion virus. Once infected, creates chaos, like rabies.

      What we have is rabies infected Buddhist Monks and some Buddhists. Fortunately not all are infected with this rabies. The society needs to immunize the people from this rabies spread.

      If the Muslims were Sinhala, would this stop? No. Because, they were attacking Sinhala Christians.

      2. However, like wolves in sheep clothing, they have crept into Sinhala Buddhism, that was imported from India. Actually, the roots go back to the Monk Mahanama Myths and Racism of 5th Century, which most, not all, Sinhala are fed at home, at School, at Daham Pasela, at the temple and exploited by the politicians.

      Lanka was Jain, Animist, Hindu, Veddah, Yakka and Naga, before the advent of Sinhala and the Buddhism.

      You can compare this to the Madrassa Problem of the Wahhabis in Pakistan an some other Wahhabi infected countries.

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        You became “Amerasri” to Amarasri. What is your problem?

        COW is a holy animal to Hindus/Buddhists. That is the only reason. That is based on the contribution of the animal which gives milk and the cow’s milk is the only substitute to mother’s milk!

        Politics is a different issue!

        If Muslims want to identify themselves under their religion, why cant others? BBS or JHU do it!

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          You eat cow dung as holy (shit) as vibuthi

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            He is a Buddhist, coming in Hindu name to insult the Hindus. Buddhists are like this. followers of No kill but Eat Philosophy. Always try to put the blame on others.

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    How about this evil Sinhala Buddhist killing follow humans. Sending their wife to middle east. What load rubbish. Sinhala Buddhist, are they all vegetarian. Only solution let encourage all budshits monks follow this mad monk, srilanka will be a peaceful country…

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      “Encourage all Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka to follow this mad monk” then Sri Lanka will be a peaceful country…”

      What a statement! It is true but I would like to modify it to “.. all monks except Rev Maduluwave Sobitha thera….”

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      From your name, you should be tamil origin.

      Are u all LTTE terrorists ? No.
      So are all sinahala buddhists no fanatics.

      This single incident of suicide of a monk ( mad or over sensitive to killing animals) should not be an example to anyone.

      And all sinhala buddhists cant be mad as you say- to leave you the country sinhalayas being extincted. Hatred of your sort can bring us no where.

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    All Life are sacred in the sight of the one and only Creator, however there is difference between human life, plant life and animal life. For some plant life is permitted to sacrifice and some others it is permitted to sacrifice animal life HUMANELY. Sacrificing Food for human consumption is a Divine Decree. One is free to accept or reject but not to Ban it. THIS IS PART OF AN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT IN EVERY CONSTITUTION. The beginning of conflict when mutual rights of one another is violated. (SriLanka paid the price for more than 30 years) So your philosophy is for you to practice and mine is my right to practice for the sake of Peace between each others beliefs. This is the essence of a true philosophy or a religion.

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    Dr.Fernando, your statistics on cattle slaughter in India is wrong. Click link. :)

    http://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=cattle&graph=total-slaughter

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      PresiDunce Bean,

      I cannot be wrong since I didn’t give statistics for cattle slaughter in India!

      I gave a figure for meat consumption based on FAO estimates. Your source is also correct, but India exports beef instead of consuming locally. That I have mentioned.

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    Man from time immemorial have been eating flesh of animals and sometimes of fellow humans as cannibals have done. Today some abhor eating animal flesh because of the killing involved. All those vegetarians who boast today have had their supplement of animal protein in their formative years. Therefore it would not matter these individuals becoming vegetarian in their adult life. However if children are raised from birth without animal protein, has any Organization done research as to how the bodies would react in sight, hearing and coordination in later life. It is well known that old feeble are fed on animal protein as nourishment to revive their vigour. Therefore, it is prudent to do a proper study before the habit of eating flesh is kicked aside all together.

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      In order to save the nation from being fallen much deeper, one should persuade MR (current most corrupted, unfair leader that the country ever produced) for self immolation.

      IF ANYBODY WOULD SUCCEED THIS- THE NATION, COUNTRY AND FUTURE OF US ALL WILL BE SAVED.

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    This is most certainly a grievence which I know for sure that many moderate, fair minded and non-racist sinhala buddhists have in this country.

    There is certainly a need to modernize this trade. Regulatory guidelines is definitely required and to this end, all segments of society (not only Muslims) and government needs to bear responsibility for absence of same. Example of United States Department of Agriculture specification for the approved methods of livestock slaughter is something to be noted and explored.

    I’m sure if the right guidlines were in place, we would not be in this state. Considering that much of this trade is managed by Muslims, they have faced much of the brunt. First step is for them to realise. We Muslims need to put a side the sectarian sentiments that are prevailing at present and look into this matter with an open mind and welcome any proposed improvements in this area.

    Like Buddhism and perhaps most other religions, Islam preaches against cruelty to animals. I may highlight one famous hadith from Sahih Bukhari as follows; Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.” (Book #54, Hadith #538).

    There are several other hadith on kindness and cruelty to animals, but this particular one is dramatic because this is after all a prostitue; and she happened to have died shortly after this incident and went to Heaven after the forgiveness she received with this good deed.

    I hope atleast (weather right or wrong)the dramatic act of self-imolation of this monk triggers a rethink of what has gone wrong and necessary action taken to redress the situation.

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      But Buddhism/Hinduism never ask to kill humans because they are KAFFIRS. In hardiths lot of venom against non-Muslims. Quaran simply asks to kill non-muslims. So, better come out from the Islamic cocoon!

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        Then check how Krishna’s 1000 wifes were slaughtered

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        All Bull…

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        Buddhist kill as preached by Buddha in Nirvana sutra! They are doing it even now!

        Hindus kill as preached by Krishna in Mahabaratha! They are doing it even now.

        But you are a Buddhist!

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    It is truly a waste of a valuable life, which could have been channeled to create goodness and benefit for humanity. What is the merit that he would accumulate after his death by sacrificing his life, for the cause of saving animals from slaughter? Animals are meant to be consumed as food as we see happening throughout the world. Man has been hunting animals for food from very ancient times and has not stopped the practice throughout history. How can anyone even think of let alone attempt to ban slaughter. Narrow minded and shallow thinking – as usual, without the proper understanding of world reality and no help from his fellow think alike tribal monks.

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      Hunting for food is different from killing for sale!

      Why dont you ask Muslims to eat pork products if your statemets are honest?

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        How much different is it? The issue here is killing animals for food. Hunting or sale of slaughtered meat it not the issue, but the act of killing itself, or taking a life, which is common in both instances. May be a little too heavy for Sivananthan to digest, so he resorts to his favourite pastime. Insulting and inciting to shore up his inadequacy.

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        Mulims will never eatpork even you give them your M—-R

        But I Have senn Buddhist eating , Dog Meat, Crow Meat, Snake, Worm,….

        If you would like to taste them go to Cambodia, Thailand, Korea or China – all are Buddhist countries – minus one – China!

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        Budda Siva, why don’t you eat dog meat? Your Buddhist in Korea and Cambodia are eating this!

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    A good article, but it does not talk about the barbaric practices of halal and kosher. It is these outrageous practices that we should get rid of. In addition, fattening cattle with excessive hormones should also be stopped. Getting rid of all meat consumption is an extreme. It is not necessary; thanks to science, there are humane ways to slaughter cattle.

    Sri Lanka is amongst the lowest ranking countries in the world in terms of meat consumption along with India and Indonesia

    Maybe that’s why the average male height in Sri Lanka is 1.636 m and for females, 1.514 m. Surely there is a correlation between protein consumption and growth, especially during the developmental years.

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      Lester,
      As usual you bring in your islamaphobic lies;

      Since Dr Laksiri talked about refering to regulations from western countries, let us consider what the United States Congress resolved on HUMANE METHODS OF SLAUGHTER (section 1901 and 1902 (b), Chapter 48, Title 7):

      No method of slaughtering or handling in connection with slaughtering shall be deemed to comply with the public policy of the United States unless it is humane. Either of the following two methods of slaughtering and handling are hereby found to be humane:

      (a)in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or

      (b)by slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering.

      You may find the source for this at the Cornell university Law School website: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/7/1902.

      Note how (b) clearly describes the Halal and Kosher method of slaughter.

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        Yes, science = Islamaphobic lies. Science says that cutting the throats of cattle causes more pain than stunning.

        Brain signals have shown that calves do appear to feel pain when slaughtered according to Jewish and Muslim religious law, strengthening the case for adapting the practices to make them more humane.

        “I think our work is the best evidence yet that it’s painful,” says Craig Johnson, who led the study at Massey University in Palmerston North, New Zealand.

        The team first cut calves’ throats in a procedure matching that of Jewish and Muslim slaughter methods. They detected a pain signal lasting for up to 2 minutes after the incision. When their throats are cut, calves generally lose consciousness after 10 to 30 seconds, sometimes longer…

        Cut-throat practice

        The researchers then showed that the pain originates from cutting throat nerves, not from the loss of blood, suggesting the severed nerves send pain signals until the time of death. Finally, they stunned animals 5 seconds after incision and showed that this makes the pain signal disappear instantly.

        http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17972-animals-feel-the-pain-of-religious-slaughter.html

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          ah.. the science that attempts to resolve the mysteries of the universe, the existence and everything and always fails at it!
          then it’s time lester teaches these americans about the scientific discovery of measuring pain and happiness from brain signals.

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          before lester begins his response let me add this too: i don’t agree to the findings that measure the pain and pleasure of plants using electrochemical signals too.

          what was ones the metaphysicists domain was leased out to the scientists and the result is more questions than that were attempted to be answered!

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            and re-inventing of the ancient wheels of philosophers and theologians and patenting of them by theoretical physicists and roboticists cum cognitive scientists.

            “For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” – a wise man

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            Science seperated from metaphysics (philosophy) for good reason. Philosophy relies on speculation not necessarily backed by any experimental proof. Without experimentation, there is no way to establish the practical limitations of a theory. This leads to blind belief and decreases the likelihood of future discoveries.

            Now, this experiment to test whether cattle suffered more due to stunning or halal/kosher can be repeated by anyone. That is why it is called an experiment; the results can be empirically verified.

            Whether you agree with the results of this experiment is irrelevent until you perform your own experiment to test the same hpothesis, and reach a different conclusion that is empirically verifiable.

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              there are three kinds of science i see:
              1. one that attempts to unravel the mysteries of universe and existence and always fails at it. producing more questions that it originally attempted to answer, bringing us all the way back to the square one. a decent one with purely good motivation.
              2. another that makes computers a reality and lands man on the moon. it’s the science that leads to technology for the better or worse of humanity. a pursuit that’s worth.
              2. and then there is the third hilarious one in which you study some 30 or 32 people lifestyles and conclude that mobile phones cause brain cancer.

              now will lester explain us about how he was convinced that the correlation between pain and those brain signals mean they are one and the same? i guess lester is one of those undergrad kids that are dogmatically inflicted with the belief that there is an answer with science for everything. and then i wonder why he is on a mission to back up buddhism which isn’t quite in agreement with fighting for what appeals to logic, much less the senses. lester should put away those programming textbooks and science outreach articles on vitamin D and pick up some books on basic mathematics and learn all the way up to a point where he understands the works of Godel and others. it will help him with the intellectual deficiency the pseudo intellectuals typically suffer from. then he will understand philosophy and metaphysics aren’t kids play.

              the brute force empirical science is the last resort people attempt when they feel the exact scientific results are far complicated for them with their tool chest.

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              if lester finds himself in shortage of supplementary material for his arguments in his islamophobia handbook, i would like to direct him to the works of dawkins and sam harris whose inflated egos in their narrow specializations also make them believe that there are scientific solutions to even social and metaphysical questions and that metaphysics is a bankrupt field of knowledge! In the meantime he should also check out what responses these individuals received from contemporary philosophers and theologians and even mathematicians and Higgs!!

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              also lester should take up some general classes in scientific methodology and history of science in order to understand that there are avenues which exclusively for speculative and constructive theorizing and there are avenues exclusively meant for experimentation and then there is the little portion that lester knows of where theories can be put in the test tubes. does lester have any idea that most of the science he reads now didn’t originate from experiments and that mathematical theories are founded on axioms?

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              There is only one kind of worthy science. It is science based on experimentation. Even though Einstein preferred theoretical physics to experimental physics, all of his predictions have been experimentally or otherwise empirically verified. Einstein did not like quantum mechanics, given its reliance on probabilities (“God does not play dice”); nevertheless, quantum mechanics has been validated over and over again, in everything from semiconductors to electron guns. Nanotechnology is the latest application of quantum theory.

              now will lester explain us about how he was convinced that the correlation between pain and those brain signals mean they are one and the same?

              “nobody” does not understand how science works. The study I gave was performed in a university and published in established research journals. If “nobody” knew how to read professional papers, he would know that in the abstract of this paper, are references to previous studies which corroborate the findings of the investigators.

              and pick up some books on basic mathematics

              I am sure that my level of mathematics training far exceeds “nobodys.” After all, nobody, being a Muslim, believes in “miracles” and that an illiterate Bedouin barbarian camel jockey in the desert talked to an invisible creature named “God” in the sky. Anyone with an ounce of mathematical training would reject such rubbish as speculation.

              most of the science he reads now didn’t originate from experiments

              The origin of science has nothing to do with the end result. If a theory cannot be tested, then science holds no opinion of it. In the case of a cow having its throat slit, however, there are easy, objectivee ways to analyze the level of pain the cow is experiencing. One only has to analyze the pattern of brain signals.

              and that mathematical theories are founded on axioms?

              Every system of logic has certain axioms. It is the only way to avoid circular reasoning. You cannot have logic without axioms.

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              oops sorry i posted the comment in another place :(

              Your comment is awaiting moderation.

              There is only one kind of worthy science.
              Sorry, you need a long way to go, lester. a shortcut to appreciating the fact otherwise is to read some history of science. Hawking compiled a bunch of historical work which he put in two books for you: “On the shoulders of giants…” and “God creaed the integers…”.

              Einstein…predictions have been experimentally or otherwise empirically verified. shows how much lester knows science than searches “about science” for his war on islam. even path finder missions to future space missions to valid some of his theories are still at their technical qualification stage. ground based experiments are still being calibrated.

              quantum mechanics, …has been validated over and over again :/ well, there is more going on lester. you hear that from the quantum physicists camp. the peak was during feynmann’s time and now people getting saner by the day.

              The study I gave was performed in a university and published in established research journals. lesters ‘established’ research journals (i believe he sure went to the reference at new scientist :D ) do publish mutually contradicting theories. it’s the practice in science. As lester likes to quote a bit of popular culture quantum mechanics news, let me remind him that the EPR paradox first made popular by established peer reviewed journals. What lester needs is a common academic practice of making an impartial search on arguments from all sides, which he will learn when gets some training professional research practices in literature survey. one abstract from one side isn’t enough. Maybe lester can take a look some science outreach effort by the cybernetics, neural nets, robotics and intelligent systems research groups? And i don’t understand why massey university in NZ needs a bold highlighting :D lester considers his university entrance the biggest achievement of his life?

              I am sure that my level of mathematics training far exceeds “nobodys.” lester’s lack of training in mathematics was rather deduced from the previous comments – sorry. being able to perform arithmatics doesn’t amount to being trained in mathematics.

              being a Muslim, believes in “miracles”
              well, who doesn’t in believe miracles now lester? :D i don’t think it anything more than being a macroscopic version of asking to believe that the cat is both dead and alive until the box is open and that even whole atoms are now passing both slits :D Lester is directed to the writings of Bertrand Russell on philosophical implications of the results in quantum mechanics for a quick, but short-lived, recovery if that just confused him of his own ‘beliefs’. btw, i also heard of an enlighten man millennia ago was having conversations with what an apostle of science like lester would now call voices in the head? :D Even men and lions gave birth to human kids lester – An experiment that was never tried again!!

              barbarian camel jockey
              oops, that’s a symptom of islamophobia, for which professional assistance is now available :D

              invisible creature named “God”
              Lester needs to look at the more grown-up definition of God with a capital G. A basic reading on the works of number theory, or even the dialogo by Galileo Galilei, would be of some help.

              Anyone with an ounce of mathematical training would reject such rubbish as speculation.
              I would like to ask lester to take a look at the last words of principia.

              If a theory cannot be tested, then science holds no opinion of it. yeah, that sells very well in some observational biologist circles. the failure of alienating some science kids from mathematics (mathematicophobia? :D ). a wise man once said “All science is either physics or stamp collecting”.

              One only has to analyze the pattern of brain signals. lester still doesn’t answer ‘the question’!

              You cannot have logic without axioms. good. next lession: now not all axioms in mathematical theories are empirically observed.

              Finally,
              i accept defeat by lester on one thing: that i can’t be an internet warrior 24/7 to come back to this page on a daily basis. i have to put my effort to generate science. so go on lester. read more than you write. God bless you.

              I would have felt sorry for the Lord. The theory is correct. – a wise man

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          Lester,

          Good exhibit, but I still hold my contention that you are an Islamaphobic liar; and here’s why.

          The measure of pain in this experiment is ‘relative’ and cannot be taken as conclusive that the religious method is ‘inhumane’. Infact there have even been experiments (despite its flaws) which have showed results to the contrary (Wilhelm Schulze (1978) of the University of Hanover, Germany), shedding doubt as to really weather these two methods are so much different in terms of ‘pain’.

          You have quoted Craig Johnson as saying ‘I think our work is the best evidence yet that it’s painful’. If that is so, it would take me much PLEASURE to invite both you and Craig Johnson over and I shall electrocute both of you (of course making sure you stay alive) and YOU tell me if stunning is a ZERO pain procedure!

          Final and most important point is that, before the invention of electrcity or other relevant technology (gassing etc), can we say that EVERYONE in the past 70,000 years of human existence was in the wrong MORAL end? Certainly not, humanity couldn’t have surely waited till electricity was invented to start consuming meat. So you and your animal rights activitst have no right to get on that moral high ground. In fact, ALL proof is to suggest that the religous method of slaughter is the MOST humane way of slaughter without luxuries of modern science (which is still subject to debate).

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            In fact, ALL proof is to suggest that the religous method of slaughter is the MOST humane way of slaughter without luxuries of modern science (which is still subject to debate).

            Only fools will believe such nonsense. Science has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that halal/kosher causes much more pain than stunning. Wilhelm Schulze’s study is outdated and the methods he used are flawed:

            However, the study notes that the “objective results presented for the captive bolt application in sheep (..) rather (..) indicates that the captive bolt device used is suspect” and that these initial “scientific findings and the results presented are only a very first contribution” and that they “need to be followed as a high priority by further investigations in the continuation of the scientific clarification of the issues of loss of pain and consciousness during slaughter of this kind with and without stunning using the same experimental approach with a representative number of grown cows of various breeds.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Schulze

            The only liars are you, your Prophet, and your silly holy book.

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              You haven’t answered all my questions. Yes, I admitted that the 1978 study is inconclusive. If you read my statement which you quote – tell me what is the more humane way of slaughter without these modern luxuries???

              So you are still the liar :). Slandering other religions will not help and I will not stoop your level

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              what is the more humane way of slaughter without these modern luxuries???

              Why not ride on the oxen then, since cars emit harmful gasful into the atmosphere?

              If you prefer Sharia Law and a life without modern luxuries, there is a home for you in Afghanistan.

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              *emit harmful gases

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              Lester, you still didn’t answer all my questions (to post on 11:47am on May 31 2013) and now you are deviating from the point.

              This is the same islamaphobic bias and selective interpretation of texts which result in your misquote the quran and hadith?

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              I have answered your question in the form of another question:

              – Why not ride on the oxen then, since cars emit harmful gases into the atmosphere?

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          There is only one kind of worthy science.
          Sorry, you need a long way to go, lester. a shortcut to appreciating the fact otherwise is to read some history of science. Hawking compiled a bunch of historical work which he put in two books for you: “On the shoulders of giants…” and “God creaed the integers…”.

          Einstein…predictions have been experimentally or otherwise empirically verified. shows how much lester knows science than searches “about science” for his war on islam. even path finder missions to future space missions to valid some of his theories are still at their technical qualification stage. ground based experiments are still being calibrated.

          quantum mechanics, …has been validated over and over again :/ well, there is more going on lester. you hear that from the quantum physicists camp. the peak was during feynmann’s time and now people getting saner by the day.

          The study I gave was performed in a university and published in established research journals. lesters ‘established’ research journals (i believe he sure went to the reference at new scientist :D ) do publish mutually contradicting theories. it’s the practice in science. As lester likes to quote a bit of popular culture quantum mechanics news, let me remind him that the EPR paradox first made popular by established peer reviewed journals. What lester needs is a common academic practice of making an impartial search on arguments from all sides, which he will learn when gets some training professional research practices in literature survey. one abstract from one side isn’t enough. Maybe lester can take a look some science outreach effort by the cybernetics, neural nets, robotics and intelligent systems research groups? And i don’t understand why massey university in NZ needs a bold highlighting :D lester considers his university entrance the biggest achievement of his life?

          I am sure that my level of mathematics training far exceeds “nobodys.” lester’s lack of training in mathematics was rather deduced from the previous comments – sorry. being able to perform arithmatics doesn’t amount to being trained in mathematics.

          being a Muslim, believes in “miracles”
          well, who doesn’t in believe miracles now lester? :D i don’t think it anything more than being a macroscopic version of asking to believe that the cat is both dead and alive until the box is open and that even whole atoms are now passing both slits :D Lester is directed to the writings of Bertrand Russell on philosophical implications of the results in quantum mechanics for a quick, but short-lived, recovery if that just confused him of his own ‘beliefs’.

          barbarian camel jockey
          oops, that’s a symptom of islamophobia, for which professional assistance is now available :D

          invisible creature named “God”
          Lester needs to look at the more grown-up definition of God with a capital G. A basic reading on the works of number theory, or even the dialogo by Galileo Galilei, would be of some help.

          Anyone with an ounce of mathematical training would reject such rubbish as speculation.
          I would like to ask lester to take a look at the last words of principia.

          If a theory cannot be tested, then science holds no opinion of it. yeah, that sells very well in some observational biologist circles. the failure of alienating some science kids from mathematics (mathematicophobia? :D ). a wise man once said “All science is either physics or stamp collecting”.

          One only has to analyze the pattern of brain signals. lester still doesn’t answer ‘the question’!

          You cannot have logic without axioms. good. now not all axioms in mathematical theories are empirically observed.

          Finally,
          i accept defeat by lester on one thing: that i can’t be an internet warrior 24/7 to come back to this page on a daily basis. i have to put my effort to generate science. so go on lester. read more than you write. God bless you.

          I would have felt sorry for the Lord. The theory is correct. – a wise man

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            “nobody” has lost the argument and is now wandering in circles like a wounded dog.

            Hawking compiled a bunch of historical work which he put in two books for you: “On the shoulders of giants…” and “God creaed the integers…”.

            Hawking is an atheist and is a physicist, not a mathematician. According to Hawking, “Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” As for the integers, they are just a subset of the real numbers. When uneducated buffoons read quotes like “God created the integers” they suddenly feel special, without realizing the triviality of such statements.

            even path finder missions to future space missions to valid some of his theories are still at their technical qualification stage

            Science took man to the moon, Islam did not.

            the peak was during feynmann’s time

            The peak of quantum mechanics has yet to be reached; quantum computing and nanotechnology are still at their early stages.

            ‘established’ research journals (i believe he sure went to the reference at new scientist :D ) do publish mutually contradicting theories. it’s the practice in science.

            Of course there are competing theories. Science is not like Islam, where you bend and blindly accept the next dose of stupidity like a heroin addict. But there is also something called a consensus . The consensus in science is that halal/kosher causes more pain to animals than stunning. Since you have obviously never read a professional paper, the abstract usually explains what the consensus is, and the extent to which the findings of the investigators deviates from the latter .

            well, who doesn’t in believe miracles now lester?

            Science does not believe in miracles. You can spin it any amount you like, but that’s the bottom line. Once you accept one miracle, it leaves open the possibility of an infinite number, distorting the possibility of objective results.

            o the writings of Bertrand Russell on philosophical implications of the results in quantum mechanics

            The philosophy of quantum mechanics and the theory/application of quantum mechanics are two different things with zero overlap. Philosophy is nothing but speculation with zero proof. Quantum mechanics works , at a mathematical level, and at an empirical level. It does not need “philosophical justification” to work.

            look at the more grown-up definition of God with a capital G. A basic reading on the works of number theory,

            The definition of God: a non-existant being who appeals to weak minds. There is no connection between God and number theory. Unless you want to suggest that the illiterate Bedouin camel jockey was also a number theorist. Did “God” reveal to him the number of underage girls he would abuse the next day?

            now not all axioms in mathematical theories are empirically observed.

            Mathematics does not need empirical justification. Although this justification is observed, indirectly, in the successful application of mathematics to science.

            i have to put my effort to generate science.

            You mean you have to pray 4 more times, and read your book of mythology. One should expect no less from a weak mind.

            The Jews have seen through Jesus and Mohammed. In retrospect, many of them have also seen through the mythical, primitive, and cruel figures of Abraham and Moses. Nearer to our own time, in the bitter combats over the work of Marx and Freud and Einstein, Jewish participants and protagonists have not been the least noticeable. May this always be the case, whenever any human primate sets up, or is set up by others, as a Messiah.”
            ― Christopher Hitchens, Hitch-22: A Memoir

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              Good morning Lester,

              Here are my responses to your quick response:

              What is epic is when you try to prove your absurd metaphysical jibberish by bringing up Hawking, who is a die-hard atheist. Equally laughable: when you try to showcaste the “metaphysical” aspects of mathematics with idiotic references to “God created the integers.”

              Super-Epic Lester. a clever one, wasn’t it? here is the full title :D

              “God Created the Integers: The Mathematical Breakthroughs That Changed History, edited by Stephen Hawking” is the book i told you about. Btw, when you say “God created the integers”, a lot of Hawking’s readers would already recognize the book. and almost all historians of science would recognize the infamous statement by Kronecker. It has nothing to do with promoting God nor does it have anything to do with showcasing any metaphysical aspects of mathematics ( what the hell is that? :D ) . Go back to my comment on ” May 31, 2013 6:32 pm” to see why you were referred to those books.

              Hawking being a die-hard atheist doesn’t matter because it doesn’t matter who compiles
              history of science and makes it popular. Those were suggested for you not because of Hawking’s summaries or introduction therein. It’s for the actual content that Hawking tries to present to people like you who think science is done in test tubes and with compound microscopes :D .

              You think you cleverly dropped the title of the other book because it didn’t have God in the title? :D
              It’s “On the shoulders of giants – great works of physics and astronomy by Stephen Hawking” if i remember correctly. Again anybody who knows ‘enough’ of science would recognize Newton’s statement there.

              What is laughable Lester is that you have so much of an issue with your ego that you think people would have simply judged a book from its cover and would have asked you to read. I read first and then i tell others to do Lester, unlike you google-search or scan through your islamophobia database and boast about your islamophobic understanding.

              btw, a die-hard ( :D ) atheist and agnostic and an ordinary atheist aren’t the same lester. If Hawking was a die-hard ( :D ) atheist, what title people like Dawkins deserve? And you who is using atheism as a front cover for your racist chauvinism?

              That point was to tell lester that his idea that everything Einstein has been experimentally verified is incorrect.

              Except that you cannot name even one such thing. what a coincidence!
              I thought Lester, with google in your next browser tab, why should I not let you do your own homework. And in the meantime your response demonstrates how much science you are in touch with. So drop that vitamin D science card and play your plain chauvinist racist card. I already gave you a clue in my response on May 31, 2013 6:26 pm. and ironically you thought you had responded it with your hate for islam on May 31, 2013 9:32 pm. Let me give you another clue. A friend of mine is a researcher in a ground based facility and works on tuning up the adaptive optics instrumentation required to verify a certain crucial prediction by Albert Einstein. Another friend of mine experimentally characterized a certain rocket propellent for a future experiment that would attempt the same in the outer space to a greater precision. now go to http://www.google.com/ncr. but you can freely choose to bury your head again in the sand as usual, everyone knows the pain the little kid that you go through. Are you the one that told David Blacker that North Korea isn’t a member of the UN? and that in the time of google? on a non-instant internet conversation? :D :D time to find another fake name Lester (and make sure you inform your paymasters in advance so your performance appraisal isn’t affected).

              Oh wait, there are no coincidences in this Quranic universe, only miracles
              No Lester, a lot of stuff in the Quran are ordinary things. Miracles are miracles, if you get what i mean. In the life of Moses as reported in the Quran, miracles happen in only a countable number of times. Ask your superior for a break and read the Quran from the front cover to the end. Try telling them you are doing it to compensate for the lack of knowledge for your online islamophobia rants, next thing you will see is a letter of termination from the enterprise de islamophobia :D and welcome lester, there is always room for you in islam :)

              So the lion-man joint venture lester?

              No Sinhalese believes that a human and a lion actually mated. On the other hand, practically every Muslim believes in the following fairytales: “Adam and Eve”, “Noah’s Ark”, “Muhammed’s Night Journey.”
              So Lester, where can i find the meta text in Mahavamsa that tells me which part to believe and which to ignore, still maintaining the credibility of the whole text so that it may still be quoted in the history textbooks for sri lankan school kids? btw, It’s not the only myth i asked you about Lester. let me remind you of another question carefully skipped: Do Sinhalese also not believe “an enlightened man millennia ago was having conversations with what a self appointed apostle of science like lester would now call voices in the head” Lester? Ostritch burying its head in the sand? :D

              Or if you like playing your new apostle of science role Lester, then do you believe in the irony that probabilistically there exists another universe with a Lester that’s defending islam? and another universe with prince sidhartha being addressed by all the derogatory terms that you use on the prophets of other religions by a Lester there? and another universe where mythology ‘works’ and science fails? :D wow, this miracle of yours is in action every instance in the life a universe!!

              Now the Muslim genius brings up Hardy. That’s atheist number 3. ..bla bla bla gay bla…
              Again it doesn’t matter what Hardy was Lester. In science it doesn’t matter who says, it matters what they say. Has Lester the self appointed apostle of science not been taught that yet? Now Lester should understand it’s insane to retaliate with “In islam it matters who says, not what they say” :D

              Having trouble finding a famous mathematician/scientist who actually supports your metaphysical babble?
              Oh the kids of today who go to science schools! Why don’t they teach science with some perspective and history anymore so that these kids will appreciate the way science was developed and understand the that there is more in science to do with foolish wand-waving or silly incantations than the the subtle science and exact art that is potion-making? :D

              As for names, there are plenty that i can help you with Lester, but i think it might offend your mind to know that other races also had contributed to civilization. Btw, Lester the wise men i was quoting were non-athiests (and non-muslims which should make you less pissed off :D ), a trivial fact I’m mentioning because Lester fails to read in between the lines. But I’m still searching for Lester’s ancestors to quote, in a hope that it might make this conversation more pleasant to Lester :D However, a lot friends of mine are doing better now, so one day somebody can help Lester’s grand kids ( if they inherit all the memes from Lester :D ) with Sinhalese/ Portuguese names too.

              Hardy was also a closet gay, not exactly your ideal Islamic role model.
              Nice job with google Lester. But with Hardy I wasn’t trying to teach you islam :D . At May 31, 2013 11:54 pm, I asked Lester to read Hardy’s Apology because Lester had said at May 31, 2013 9:32 pm, “Mathematics does not need empirical justification. Although this justification is observed, indirectly, in the successful application of mathematics to science.” in an attempt to show Lester “how much mathematics lester is introduced to”. So there was no need to look for my ideal islamic role model :D

              And yes, Hardy would support everything I have said here, not least of all the fact that mathematics creates its own reality and hence needs no empirical justification. Being the genius you are, you might want to actually open a book before trying to use it to support your already distorted arguments.

              Good job with the homework Lester. Google’s existence is justified, i believe. Now lets review our conversation: please go back to my comment on May 30, 2013 10:21 pm in which i ask ” does lester have any idea that most of the science he reads now didn’t originate from experiments and that mathematical theories are founded on axioms?” for which you reply on “May 31, 2013 4:30 am” with “Every system of logic has certain axioms. It is the only way to avoid circular reasoning. You cannot have logic without axioms.” for which i say on May 31, 2013 6:26 pm, “good. now not all axioms in mathematical theories are empirically observed.” to which you respond on May 31, 2013 9:32 pm with “Mathematics does not need empirical justification. Although this justification is observed, indirectly, in the successful application of mathematics to science. ” for which i said “Shows how much mathematics lester is introduced to :D Go read a book called ‘a
              mathematicians apology’ by G.H. Hardy.” in an attempt to get across my original point that a whole lot science exists which shows least interest to experimentation and realization, which you hail as the only and unique identity of science. Now you may say the mathematics that Hardy referred to is not applied math, but then i would ask Lester to ask someone to help him review the applications and motives behind the modern efforts in pure mathematics. So when you read a comment, read the whole conversation. It’s not your fault, because I see you are too overloaded with assigned tasks to cover multiple articles at multiple sites :D Again let me tell you Lester, I read first and then i tell others to do Lester, unlike you who demonstrated to being what would the internet dwellers call an epic fail by your ignorance about the contents of Quran and the two Hawking’s books. But, I appreciate the time spent on searching ‘about Hardy’s Apology’. And yes, I mentioned Quran, so I am expecting your classic aggressive diversion tactic in your response :D

              Under one article in a single day!! How many other pages are there where I see you
              you forgot to delete the above leser? :D I’m afraid i’m embarrassed looking at your record on CT :D or are you a Mr. Smith that replicates?

              All those smiley faces… is Allah not helping you out with the diarrhea? Science has a solution for that too, btw.
              Is that your way of expressing anger Lester? What, are a 12 year old kid? Then you must be one of those child prodigies, looking at your google skills. Or is it sort of an anger management issue or psychological growth deficiency? is vitamin D not helpful? Do you notice an opportunity for diversion here? :D

              when are you enlightening the mass about the mahavamsa mythology

              As soon as Sinhala-Buddhist suicide bombers start exploding like firecrackers, in their desire to consummate with 72 houri in Buddha’s heaven, I shall gladly enlighten you.
              You should have already begun it Lester. I will save the space here considering redundancy and at it’s actually below my dignity on the internet ( :D ) to detail 1983 and 2009.

              all what you could find was Hitchens?

              Hitchens actually has a point, considering how your Hamas brothers are committed to the full and total destruction of Israel, as they state in their charter:

              On the Destruction of Israel:

              —————————–

              ‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

              obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.’ (Preamble)

              https://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

              Hamas learned well from the illiterate camel jockey, although the method of “fighting back” has hardly improved. A sword vs. throwing rocks; then again, Islamic innovation is an oxymoron.

              Ah…Lester’s epic diversion :D as always! coz it sounded like “Having trouble finding a famous mathematician/scientist who actually supports your metaphysical babble?” firing back at you Heshan? :D

              And you coudln’t find anyone decent having a phobia for God or Abrahamic religions, or islam for that matter? At least I expected Dawkins from you :D is it because i already suggested him to you? :D

              Ending the comment with that rant pleases your masters and earns you a bonus Lester? Is Lester unaware of the God believing Jews that continue to oppose Zionism? They might have a point too, no? Oh, Lester belongs to a group that’s well known for its inferiority complex and going onto suppress and oppress the other by means of ugly force and blaming the sane ones of its own race for what they call ‘paavaa deema’!!

              At least they fight back in retaliation Lester, don’t go aggressive on the others like in 1983, 2009 in 2013, to mention a few from a little patch of land on the surface of earth.

              Finally,
              You think you have cleverly skipped a lot of questions i asked you by throwing your random islamophobic hate rants that you repeatedly use under almost every article you comment on CT. I’ll see if i can compile the list of questions i gave you here in another comment. Have a nice adrenaline filled weekend :)

              My worthiness is all my doubt –
              His merit – all my fear –
              Contrasting which my quality
              Does however – appear.
              – a wise man

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            i learned that lester replied. let me try. but it’s already turning out to be fruitless talking to lester.

            Hawking is an atheist and is a physicist, not a mathematician. According to Hawking, “Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” As for the integers, they are just a subset of the real numbers. When uneducated buffoons read quotes like “God created the integers” they suddenly feel special, without
            realizing the triviality of such statements. in an attempt to educate lester, let me tell him that those two phrases are popular statements in mathematical sciences that Hawking (or anybody that knows a bit of history would have) wanted to use in his title.

            ‘Nobody’ asked you to check out those books not to preach you religion :D that’s what happens when you are prejudiced.

            Epic lester!

            Nobody: even path finder missions to future space missions to valid some
            of his theories are still at their technical qualification stage

            Lester: Science took man to the moon, Islam did not.

            That point was to tell lester that his idea that everything Einstein has
            been experimentally verified is incorrect. Can’t help an out and out islamophobe. The job of
            a religion is not to take lester to the moon :D

            Nobody: the peak was during feynmann’s time

            Lester: The peak of quantum mechanics has yet to be reached; quantum
            computing and nanotechnology are still at their early stages.

            Lester could have taken some time to understand the flow of the argument. The
            ‘peak’ meant theoretical glory. Not the realization of technical applications.

            Of course there are competing theories. Science is not like Islam, …

            That’s this kid’s islamophobia speaking for which professional assistance is
            now available. ‘Nobody’ didn’t say it was wrong. Actually ‘nobody’ attempted to
            help lester deduce :D the fact in science there are competing theories
            presented side by side.

            abstract usually explains what the consensus is, and the extent to
            which the findings of the investigators deviates from the latter
            .

            So that’s how abstracts are written? :D

            Science does not believe in miracles.

            In science when you find absurdities you take some time to call them the ordinary :D

            Once you accept one miracle, it leaves open the possibility of an
            infinite number, distorting the possibility of objective results.

            So the lion-man joint venture lester? :D an experimental observation that
            went never reproduced :D and Buddha’s hypotheses of heavenly beings? you may choose to bury your head in the sand thinking nobody notices.

            Quantum mechanics works, at a mathematical level, and at an
            empirical level. It does not need “philosophical justification” to work.

            ‘nobody’ helped lester for his retaliation with Russells notes actually :D Russell doesn’t philosophically justify as Lester presupposes.
            so lester wants to say the cat was both alive and dead? :D because the math
            went fine? Maybe then there is a lester in a parallel universe that writes in
            defense of islam :D btw, confined to their domain, a lot of crackpot science
            models ‘work’ too :D fudge factors ‘work’. Order of magnitude cancellations ‘work’.

            Nobody: look at the more grown-up definition of God with a capital G. A
            basic reading on the works of number theory,

            Lester: The definition of God: a non-existant being who appeals to weak
            minds.

            That’s why ‘nobody’ asked lester to read a grown-up definition :D

            There is no connection between God and number theory.

            ‘nobody’ didn’t imply a connection. ‘nobody’ wanted to help lester broaden
            his mind to help it understand the grown up definition :D sometimes it demans a lot of patience to educate some kids.

            Did “God” reveal to him the number of underage girls he would abuse the
            next day?

            Diversion? Ok, lets hear how old lester’s grandpa and granma were when lester’s mom or the eldest aunt/uncle was born? if the smallest of those numbers is anything greater than 14 (or any number that would make the women in concern fertile), then please go one step above in the family tree and perform the same search and repeat this step until you get to 14 and report us with how many nodes you had to go up and the average life of a person in the part of the tree you traversed :D

            Mathematics does not need empirical justification. Although this
            justification is observed, indirectly, in the successful application of
            mathematics to science.

            Shows how much mathematics lester is introduced to :D Go read a book called ‘a
            mathematicians apology’ by G.H. Hardy. Now don’t tell us there was an attempt
            to teach you religion like in the case of Hawkin’s books :D

            … Christopher Hitchens, Hitch-22: A Memoir

            Come on lester, all what you could find was Hitchens? :D I thought with
            google, the reason why you enrolled in your online islamophobia mission because
            you were void of reasoning in real life conversations, you could do better
            heshan.

            Look at you lester:

            Lester – May 31, 2013 4:30 am
            Lester – May 31, 2013 4:54 am: after a break of 24 mins
            Lester – May 31, 2013 12:07 pm: after a 7 hrs
            Lester – May 31, 2013 1:59 pm: 2 hrs later
            Lester – May 31, 2013 2:00 pm
            Lester – May 31, 2013 9:32 pm: 7 hrs later
            Lester – May 31, 2013 9:40 pm: 30 mins later :D

            Under one article in a single day!! How many other pages are there where I
            see you :D Are you on a paid mission dude? At least reimbursed? :D another
            comment: Lester – May 31, 2013 3:59 am, 30 mins before the first one, under another article where on the same day you post 3 comments :D so goes lester’s legend!

            So lester, now that you have carefully been turned into an internet apostle
            of science, when are you enlightening the mass about the mahavamsa mythology, the
            belief on experimentally unobservable karma, the Buddha’s revelations about
            enlightenment and his conversations with heavenly beings and the lion-human interbreeding? :D :D :D  Btw, it’s gonna take a lot more work than quoting vitamin D stories from
            newscientist and your computer programming skills :D so instead of wasting your
            energy like writing islamophobic rants 24/7, selectively omitting questions
            thrown at you, and diverting the conversation to random points of islamophobia
            from your handbook and eventually contributing to the spread of islam, you
            should, as ‘nobody’ suggests, read more than you write :D

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              to end with a quote:
              Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and everywhere, could produce no variety of things – a wise man

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              Epic lester!

              What is epic is when you try to prove your absurd metaphysical jibberish by bringing up Hawking, who is a die-hard atheist. Equally laughable: when you try to showcaste the “metaphysical” aspects of mathematics with idiotic references to “God created the integers.”

              That point was to tell lester that his idea that everything Einstein has been experimentally verified is incorrect.

              Except that you cannot name even one such thing – what a coincidence! Oh wait, there are no coincidences in this Quranic universe, only miracles .

              So the lion-man joint venture lester?

              No Sinhalese believes that a human and a lion actually mated. On the other hand, practically every Muslim believes in the following fairytales: “Adam and Eve”, “Noah’s Ark”, “Muhammed’s Night Journey.”

              :D Go read a book called ‘a
              mathematicians apology’ by G.H. Hardy.

              Now the Muslim genius brings up Hardy. That’s atheist number 3. Having trouble finding a famous mathematician/scientist who actually supports your metaphysical babble? Hardy was also a closet gay, not exactly your ideal Islamic role model. And yes, Hardy would support everything I have said here, not least of all the fact that mathematics creates its own reality and hence needs no empirical justification. Being the genius you are, you might want to actually open a book before trying to use it to support your already distorted arguments.

              Under one article in a single day!! How many other pages are there where I
              see you

              All those smiley faces… is Allah not helping you out with the diarrhea? Science has a solution for that too, btw.

              when are you enlightening the mass about the mahavamsa mythology

              As soon as Sinhala-Buddhist suicide bombers start exploding like firecrackers, in their desire to consummate with 72 houri in Buddha’s heaven, I shall gladly enlighten you.

              all what you could find was Hitchens?

              Hitchens actually has a point, considering how your Hamas brothers are committed to the full and total destruction of Israel, as they state in their charter:

              On the Destruction of Israel:

              —————————–

              ‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

              obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.’ (Preamble)

              https://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

              Hamas learned well from the illiterate camel jockey, although the method of “fighting back” has hardly improved. A sword vs. throwing rocks; then again, Islamic innovation is an oxymoron.

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              *showcase

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            Hi Lester,

            Just in case you couldn’t find, I wrote a response on May 31, 2013 11:54 pm, starting with “Good Morning Lester”.

            As for the compilation of all my questions that you skipped with your ostrich technique, i will see if i can do it during this weekend. have a nice weekend. holidays on weekends? :D

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      Full of lies and rubbish. Waste of time.

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      I am sinhala buddhist.
      We dont have any problem with halal food labels, so long non-halal foods are also usually available on the markets.

      Secondly, radicalists like you will only help idiotic segments like BBS to turn our peaceful buddhists into criminals of all forms. Unfortunately, the rulers are not capable of seeing the danger of BBS^s emerge at this critical juncture of the country^s politics.

      By listening to DJ ^s speech to Boston lanka, I fully agree with him reiterating that current rulers have no foreign policy and now Mahinda chinthana is becoming GOTA chintana – turning our society into a lybian style one. Day to another, it is becoming more brutal than peaceful.

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        respect!

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        @ Sun,

        First the Muslims will ask for halal. When their demographic numbers reach a certain level, they will start asking for other things, like Sharia Courts, as they have in London. If they become a majority, they will enforce hijab and barbaric punishments like stoning/beheading. This is why you have to say “no” at the earliest stage.

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          What BS are talking ? Is Sharia law in action in Malaysia and in the largest islamic population -Indonesia ?

          If any authorities would implement Sharia or any other laws to the rule of law in SL, Rajapakshes will be the first ones to be beheaded or stoned or executed. Check the recent incidents and get the facts – since Rajapakshes and their henchmen are behind all those crimes. Today srilanka is a crime state – not a peaceful nation to many countries.

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            Only a Muslim would support Sharia Law. Most non-Muslims don’t even know what it is. Thank you for exposing your true identity.

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              now i that i said it, i can get some sleep too :)

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              Not a justification, but the truth.
              My previous comment was SOLELY based on what you had commented on adding -SHARIA LAW AND THE RELATED STUFF. fYI, I am a born buddhist BUT AN ANTI BBS by all means and will also die as a buddhist. Further to this, I would not support anyone who bend on to sharia or any other primitive laws and rituals either. I was very against beheading of that innocent muslim girl in Saudi lately. SLGO could have saved the life of poor girl, if they paid genuine efforts in that regards. Shame, that we have a muslim minister of the JUSTICE – but he stays as if he is hallucinated.

              Your arguments are comparable to that of Rajapakshe Regime, they just accuse the western nations when they criticise MR policies calling them as imperialists are a great threat to country^s sovereignty. But truth as everyone can see it – there is no rule of law in SRILANKA today under MR rule.

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              In Sri Lanka,
              Muderers are free and someVIP murders fly to Singapore!
              Rapist are free some are close to Royal Family!
              Drug Dealers are free, they will bring the stuff in containers without fear!
              Brothel Houses are common and own by VIPs!
              Casinos are own by Big Business Magnets!
              Gamling Joints are everywhere to swindle the poor!
              Race Bookies are owned by Parlimenteriens and are the chiefs of Buddhist organizations!
              Robery and House Breaking are occurring daily!
              Child Abuse by Buddhist Monks rarely comes to light!
              Sexual Abuse by Monks and Elders are minor offense !
              Swindlers of Public property are Leaders!
              Swindlers of poor are Crowned (honored) with Deshamanya!
              Interest Madams who eats a pound of flesh from each and every poor are Crowned (honored) with Desha Bandu and Desha Shakthi!
              ……….
              ……….

              All the above are allowed in Buddhism and are not even considered as MINOR OFFENSE, in fact some are HONORABLE in Buddhism!

              In Sharia Law these are all PUNISHABLE OFFENSE! And no mercy shown to the accused!

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        If the Buddha was living today and you offered him the option of selecting between halal and non-halal what is the probability that he will not select halal ? and if so why ?

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      Lester, soon Saudi Aramco is taking over the Sapugaskanda. what is your plan and idea of this? dont you think that this is dangerous for Sinhala Budhist? DODU comment please as I like your straight comments

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    self immolation often happens in India; when film actors (like MGR when he died or Rajinikanth was taken ill briefly), but in Sri Lanka this is the first for cattle slaughter done by a monk….whoever does and wherever this happens, it is just stupid and weird. Especially the priests are supposed to guide and put people on the right track, this doesn’t look civilized nor a Buddhist teaching sad to hear these things now happening in Sri Lanka.

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    WHY NOT BODU BALU SENA TAKING NO ACTION TOWARDS THIS KAAMADURU ??…….NEWS UPDATED …

    A Buddhist monk residing in Padukka, Wataruka area has been arrested for sexually abusing an under aged boy.The alleged monk is 48 year old, while the boy was 17 years of age.

    The monk has allegedly abused the boy when he took Dawal Danaya to the temple with his mother yesterday (28).

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      In Islam, rape charges need four eye witnesses. That means women were raped in public during the days of Mohamed and still continue. Mohamed abused a six year old Ayesha and became the GOD of Muslims.

      What are you preaching here?

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        Buddha started to have sex with girls at the age of 8 or 9! his father provided him this great facility to keep him focused in the Kingdom!

        At the age of 16, he is still a minor according to Sri Lankan Law, he married and by this time he had sex with over 40,000 girls. At 30 he got fed up of Sex and went to forest! There he attain Nirvana(?) and asked his fellow monks not to marry!

        Now the monks are not getting married, tbut hey are sexually abusing children all over the world!

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    Let them ban it for ever. I can tell you more singhale eat meat today than any one else: all singhale who came to Europe eat meat and chlldren are used to it. more singhale but it in Srilanka otherwise there would not be bussines : i bet you if the government can do it let it do it. See what will happen to tourism and it is not obledged to any Muslim to eat meat. It is mere mubah and may be we do our religious duties only :

    Singhale are in need of meat more than Muslims do your home works first and then come to us: who sell cows to Muslims:
    Who get tender with big amount of money: Pradesha Sabawa:
    Who eat more meat: percentage wise : singhale
    Why is this fuss about it now?
    Why not 30 years ago?
    Why is not hunedn years ago?d
    Why wisdom come just now?
    Some singhale did not come out of euphoria of Victory over LTTE?
    That is why these try oppress minorities to take the country back to where it was before 10 years ago
    Is this patriotism .

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    With all respect to Dr Laksiri Fernando. Please do conduct a I depth study or even library search, if cattles are not slaughtered or banned in Sri Lanka or even India, what would be the impact to the society?. What are the social costs? Do not look through the Buddhists perspective. Be beyond it. We like to know the outcome of it.

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      Ayaha,

      Impacts?

      1. Farmers crops will be damaged and destroyed. Food production will go down.

      2. Less meat, less calories and proteins, need to be substituted with other sources such as grains.

      3. Healthy. Less overweight people, and more healthy people.

      4. Cattle populations to be cut down.

      5. In the USA grains are grown to feed cattle.

      6. The economy needs to be adjusted.

      7. We all ate meat, when we were in Africa and when we came out of Africa. Make Veddahs not eat meat?

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      How about sterilization instead of slaughter ??

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    Who can tell the physiology of human & relation of foods.

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      What do you mean by this kind of questions ? Is that physiology or human psychology ?

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    Let us do it for some time and we consequences. Let the world do it and see what change will be there:

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    From Dr laksiri article a quotation says “Let him (householder) not destroy, or cause to be destroyed, any life at all, or sanction the act of those who do so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature.” If we like to live according to quote we should not only banned cattle slaughter but also banning fishing, slaughtering pigs, chicken and dry fish. this is actually not practicable. If we try to do it with force we will be Buddhist Taliban. If we are only try to arise chaos on only in cattle slaughtering it is very clear racism. Because muslims and jews do slaughtering according to their religion. I hope in buddhism there is no prohibition in slaughtering cattle. it came from Hinduism. where Hindus believe cow as a god. in the information era talking about cattle slaughtering is just a politics and to express the hate against a group of people that we dont like.If Buddhism says not to kill animal for food our religion become unmatch with this era. otherwise we have to to some manipulation as catholic do in the bible

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      Buddhism came from Hinduism and not from islam or Chiristianity. COW has a special place over the other animals because of the milk which is the only substiutute for human children for centuries.

      Commercialism and consumerism are not parts of Hinduism/Buddhism!

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        Hindus eat Cow Shit and some make juice out of it and drink!

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    All fuss is to import expired meat from abroad in the name of self immolation. Currently Srilanka is a landfill from cheap import. All rubbish is dumped in Srilanka. we can sell our offshore territory too for dumping rubbish.

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    Gents, lets me practical. Don’t deny other people what they like to eat. Let them eat what they want not what you want.

    Jaffna has big potential to become the beef producer to the entire island. Cattle industry is wide spread in Jaffna with plenty of grazing land and cows. I hope the government will look into it.

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    Mad cow disease, foot and mouth disease and hoof and mouth disease are affecting cows abroad. If we import meat that will come to SL.

    Instead if we develop beef industry in SL, it saves SL.

    Jaffna peninsular has the highest beef potential. It must be reached.

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    Buddhists-Self immolation etc.
    Dr.Fernando says the ritual is primitive. Another says Mahayanism allows it and cites Avatantika Sutra. What about the Jataka stories which all Buddhists read with delight without exception -Mahayana and Theravada.Sarifice is one of the major Paramitas which is also part of Theravada, and more so of Mahayana.What about the Sirisangabo story which is very popular among Theravada Buddhists?
    Do not all these extall the virtues of sacrifice? In other religions there is the principle of martyrdom. On the facde of the Northre Dame church in Paris there is a statue of one Saint holding his head in his hand. Sri Lankans visting the place call him “Siri Sangabo’.
    There is also non-voluntary forms of sacrifice as offered to Kali. (see Killing for Kali in Time Magazine).
    In India,womeen performed ‘sati’ on the funeral pyre of their husbands.That was for honour and fidelity.
    Does this mean all religions accepted immolation as a form of sacrifice? Prabhakaran too made it into a cult. The “Last Supper” with him was part of the ritual.
    So where are we? Primitive or noble Sacrifice? Opinions differ.

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    Here is a argument against taking animal life ( except in self defense ) that I wrote in response to MR david Blacker on the thread by Mr Tissainayagam on the subject of cattle slaughter

    QUOTE//

    There IS a moral argument against killing any animal ( and I am talking about all animals – not only cattle ).

    1. Humans are also animals.

    2. Animals feel pain & fear death just like us.

    3. If we fear PAIN and DEATH, why cause the same to others.

    4. Why is cannibalism NOT OK ?? Because we fear death and pain.

    4. As they say “Do unto others as U would to yourself” U may say that this applies only to humans but that is just “self serving” and “self interest” at work based on a theory that humans consider themselves more important than animals. I would like to remind you that humans are not the most successful species on planet earth from a biological point of view

    As a Biologist I understand that carnivores survive on meat.
    My main criticism is not about eating meat ( which will never stop I guess) but using GOD and Buddha and other religious excuses for indulging in a savage act that nature has forced on us.

    /END QUOTE

    This may not be practical , BUT nevertheless this is the MORAL ARGUMENT against taking life ( whether humans or animals )

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      what American mama says isn’t wrong. but i would rather go for the moral argument against ‘inflicting pain’ than ‘refusing the right to live of the cattle’.

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        Real Pain is rebirth! A Buddhist re-born as an animal will get killed by a Lion or a Tiger!

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      American Mama,

      Interesting points you raise.

      As a Biologist I understand that carnivores survive on meat.

      Yes, mammalian evolution would not have been possible had it not been for consumption of meat. This is particularly in the case of harsh climates, such as were experienced during the Ice Age. On the other hand, given advances in genetic engineering and advanced farming techniques, meat is no longer necessary for human survival. However, I cannot think of a much more worthy substitute for protein and calcium, than that found in meat. So while it would be possible to survive without meat, there would likely be some adverse impact on development (height, weight, musculature) etc. when looking at a population over time.

      Humans are also animals.

      Humans can rationalize their wants, needs, and desires beyond that which is necessary for mere survival. Non-human animals are an integral part of the ecosystem, but their primary purpose is to reproduce. Whereas, humans can alter the environment in much more radical ways, such as building artificial lakes or planting trees.

      Animals feel pain & fear death just like us.

      This is true. But most of them, with the exception of domesticated animals, have a different kind of “memory” than do we. Much of what we associate with pain and fear has to do with how we process memories.

      If we fear PAIN and DEATH, why cause the same to others.

      Well, we are at the top of the food chain now. So, it is a question of competition. When dinosaurs were at the top of the food chain, did they care about how those at the bottom of the ladder felt?

      Why is cannibalism NOT OK ?? Because we fear death and pain

      A good observation. Again, we are at the top of the food chain. The other animals don’t have much chance against us. Also, if we started eating each other, it would raise other issues, such as the method of slaughter.

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        Lester

        A brief point.

        “Well, we are at the top of the food chain now. So, it is a question of competition. When dinosaurs were at the top of the food chain, did they care about how those at the bottom of the ladder felt? “

        Dinosaurs were not capable of reasoning and also were not omnivores.
        We have a choice. They did not.

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          @ American Mama,

          I see your point. It is a valid one. Whether it can take fruition is a problem of its own. I would argue that humans have depended on meat for so long that consuming it is probably instinctual at this point. On the other hand, what do you think about the lifespans of animals, which in most cases are significantly shorter than that of humans?

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    Please find the chapter of Halal/Kosher slaugther in FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United States):

    http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6909e/x6909e09.htm#b5-Religious%20or%20ritual%20slaughter%20(Halal%20and%20Kosher)

    Religious or ritual slaughter (Halal and Kosher)
    Most developed and many developing countries of the world require by law an animal to be rendered unconscious before it is slaughtered. This is in order to ensure that the animal does not suffer pain during slaughter. However, exceptions are made for the Jewish (Kosher) and Muslim (Halal) slaughter of livestock. Here stunning generally is not allowed and the animal is bled directly using a sharp knife to cut the throat and sever the main blood vessels. This results in sudden and massive loss of blood with loss of consciousness and death. However, many authorities consider that religious slaughter can be very unsatisfactory and that the animal may not be rendered unconscious and suffer considerable discomfort and pain in the slaughter process.

    A number of factors must be given serious consideration before this type of slaughter is acceptable: –

    1. Animals that are slaughtered according to Kosher or Halal requirements should be securely restrained, particularly the head and neck, before cutting the throat. Movement results in a poor cut, bad bleeding, slow loss of consciousness (if at all) and pain. This has serious implications for animal welfare. The knife that is used to cut the throat and the carotid and jugular blood vessels must be razor sharp and without blemishes and damage. This is to ensure a swift, smooth cut across the throat behind the jaw and to ensure immediate and maximum gush of blood. Poor bleeding causes slow loss of consciousness and reduces meat quality.
    2. Animals should not be shackled and hoisted before bleeding. This causes them severe discomfort and stress. Hoisting should be done only after the animal has lost consciousness Restraining equipment should be comfortable for the animal.

    3. Operator competence is of great importance in order to carry out satisfactory religious slaughter, and the authorities should license all slaughter personnel. A poor technique will result in great suffering and cruelty to the animal. Religious slaughter should be carried out paying attention to detail and ensuring the method, equipment and operators are correct. The slaughter process is slow.

    The captive bolt gun is suitable for this stunning when using the mushroom shaped head of the bolt (Fig. 55). The mushroom gun is an improvement on the plain bolt, as this bolt does not penetrate the brain and cause death. This should be more acceptable to the religious authorities, and its use would encourage more humane slaughter amongst Muslims in developing countries, thereby improving animal welfare.
    Fortunately, many Muslim authorities accept some forms of pre-slaughter stunning. Many Muslim authorities permit electric stunning of cattle, sheep and poultry, whose meat is destined for Muslim communities, because the animals subjected to this stunning method would recover if no bleeding was carried out. Electric stunning is also the method of choice in meat exporting countries where stunning of slaughter animals is required by law, for export to Muslim countries. Similarly, Muslim minorities in countries with stringent animal welfare regulations are allowed to use Halal slaughter methods, but in combination with electrical stunning.

    Any kind of prestunning for livestock to be slaughtered according to the Jewish Kosher method has not yet been accepted.

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    Lester is not your real name, you are a coward. next your rebirth wish you a bull. and your m**t will be sold in the m**t shop in Srilanka.

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