By P. Soma Palan –
P. Soma Palan
Pastor Jerome Fernando of the Glorious Church has exploded into the front page news in the Daily Mirror of 15th May 2023 and onwards, by his ignominious and inglorious utterances, derogatory of the Buddha and Buddhism, which has caused an uproar amongst the Buddhist majority of the country. The Government has reacted by asking the Criminal Investigation arm of the State to initiate inquiry into the matter. I do not know whether expressing a view on a founder of a religion is a criminal offence. I think it is more necessary that his views are rebutted on the Buddha and Buddhism by an intellectual response. To my mind expressing a true and objective view of a religious founder and religion does not amount to insulting and derogation. But if the views expressed with an intention of hate to vilify, disparage a religion, in comparison to one’s own, it is derogatory and insulting. In the latter sense, Pastor Jerome is disparaging and denigrating the Buddha and Buddhism, intentionally to elevate Jesus and the religion Christianity. In my view a critical response to counter the falsity of his statements is justified.
Jerome Fernando
1. The falsity of his view on Enlightenment: As per the news Report, Pastor Jerome has stated that “to be enlightened, you need light. The name Buddha itself means enlightened one. So, what is greater, light or enlightenment? Jesus said I am the light of the world. So, I tell you now, Jesus didn’t say I am the enlightened one. No, Jesus came from a different wavelength. Jesus said I am the light of the world. So, I submit to you, the Buddha was actually looking for Jesus. This is why every Buddhist needs Jesus”. Pastor draws a distinction between light and enlightenment. That is, the two are separate qualities. But this is an erroneous conception. Enlightenment per se is light. It is not light in its literal sense but in its metaphorical sense. In Hinduism and by extension Buddhism, light means knowledge (vidya) and darkness means ignorance (avidya). By dispelling and overcoming darkness of ignorance the light of knowledge is attained. This state of attainment is Enlightenment. Therefore in Buddha, the Enlightened One, the supreme knowledge and light is one and the same. Enlightenment is realized by deep meditation. So, enlightenment comes from within and not from an outside Agent, Jesus. Pastor Jerome saying that “Buddha was looking for Jesus” displays his ignorance of history. Jesus didn’t exist in 500 years BC. Pastor Jerome’s notion that” Jesus is the light of the world” assumes that the world before his birth in 1st century CE was in complete darkness. The wisdom of the Hinduism contained in the Vedas and the philosophy of the Upanishads of the incomparable Rishis, predates millennia before Jesus.
2. Jesus the Light: Jesus was not the “light of the world” but the harbinger of darkness to the world. The outcome of Jesus and Christianity plunged Europe for decades in religious wars, the Crusades, in the name of religion. In the name of religion thousands of human beings were killed. Ironically, the very Rome which crucified Jesus, hijacked the Judeo Christian religion of mid-Asia, and became the centre and repository of Christian religion, The rise of the Vatican Papacy with Popes claiming direct succession of Jesus. The vices, corruption, evils and abuses of the Popes and the Church of Christendom during the Renaisance period, led to the Reformation spearheaded by Martin Luther and the break-up of the Church and the rise of several Protestant denominational Churches. The Reformation did not result in reform, but only broke the monopoly of power of a single Church and created several independent Protestant Churches. The evils and abuses were only broad based and shared by the Protestant Churches. This tradition is manifested and continues even to the present day, in the form of Evangelical Churches like that of Pastor Jerome’s Glorious Church. The infamous Papal Bulls of Popes imploring Columbus and Vasco da Gama (the Conquistadors) for the discovery new lands, supported by military power and followed by Priests, to conquer and convert the so-called non-Christian heathens to Christianity. The rest of the story is common knowledge, the vandalizing of temples, conversion at gun point the natives, taking shiploads of Africans to America in Slaves trade etc. That is how “light of Jesus “ was propagated in the Latin America, Africa , Asia and far East, and its demographic and territorial increase and spread, worldwide.
3. The story of the Buddha which happened 500 years before Jesus is well supported by irrefutable, independent historical evidence, unlike that of the Jesus, which is based on the Gospels of his disciples, written many years after his crucifixion. Modern Researchers and Scholars have exposed the fundamental belief of Christianity, the Resurrection and his Ascension to heaven. They have supportive evidence that Jesus survived the Crucifixion and healed, and found his way to Kashmir in India, where he lived and died at the age of 86. His tomb is still extant and is a veritable proof of this.
4. There is a missing period of Jesus in his youth from 14 years of age in the Bible. This covers the period of his sojourn in Kashmir, India and Tibet. Hinduism and Buddhism had a great influence on Jesus. Therefore, contrary to Pastor Jerome’s view, the opposite is true that Jesus was looking for spiritual “light” in Hinduism and Buddhism in Kashmir and Tibet, and returned to Jerusalem and began his preaching, ending in his crucifixion by the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate.
I refrain from referring to other blind and irrational beliefs of Christianity as I have only responded to the specific statement of Pastor Jerome free of malice and hate.
old codger / May 25, 2023
Mr. Soma Palan’s critique of the fake prophet’s statement is commendable, but it too is based on religious faith. So, it is akin to the famous blind man in a dark room, looking for a black cat which isn’t there.
However, I believe from the way religious nuttery is gathering steam in the country, half the population, including the young Buddhist lady in the following video, will be locked up for insulting Buddhism in the course of pointing out its contradictions.
https://youtu.be/rl-BKFYt2cQ
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old codger / May 26, 2023
It seems that the young lady has covered up the video. Smart girl.
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chiv / May 28, 2023
OC seems Jerome has provided enough fodder for our Lankan politicians/ racist. Natasha Edirisinghe , reportedly a standup comedian, was arrested by CID at BIA for making insensitive religious comments . Whereas Law Breaker and smuggler, MP for Puttalam was allowed to leave country to Dubai, so that he can bring more contraband..
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old codger / May 28, 2023
Chiv,
As I predicted, Natasha was arrested. She did her talk show before a private audience which didn’t object but laughed all the way. Her mistake was in releasing it to YouTube, drawing the attention of hypocritical monks and opportunists.
The way things are going, soon we won’t be able to say anything about Buddhism even in private. Probably we won’t be allowed to mention child abuse in temples either.
I think it is time everyone started telling jokes about Buddhism. They can’t arrest all of us.
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old codger / May 28, 2023
Chiv,
There also the insinuation that she was involved in the Aragalaya. Let’s see what the JVP has to say.
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chiv / May 28, 2023
OC , amidst this sickening BS , few expect us, to give up our anonymity. Dont you think people with known identity should think twice , questioning “what Buddha achieved by sitting under a tree????
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old codger / May 29, 2023
Chiv,
Saying the wrong thing might even get CT banned in future.
Much of the BS is generated by Derana, which wants to present the Aragalaya as a foreign conspiracy.
Natasha didn’t really insult Buddhism, but commented on Buddha’s purported ability to walk immediately after birth.
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chiv / May 29, 2023
Sorry her name is Natasha Edirisooriya . Today Minister for Buddhism Propaganda Vidura told , soon stricter laws will be passed to punish people insulting Buddhism. SW, who insults every other religion, accused people of apologizing after insulting Buddhism. He also blamed Aragalaya for creating such toxic environment. Whereas our long lost hit man, Mervyn claimed, that he has put his goons on alert to physically manhandle Pastor, on his return to Lanka. You Tube activist Rajangana Thera was arrested following a complaint from another Thera for making statements harmful to religious harmony (reportedly insulted President in social media ????). Meantime another Ven . Thera was sentenced to prison for molesting the teenage daughter of his mistress. Hopefully the judge, will not be punished for alleged insults. Low and Odor.
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Ajith / May 25, 2023
Religious fundamentalism is a common weapon used by those who seek political power. It was used against Muslims and it was used Muslim bombers against Muslim community. Recently it is used against Hindus or Tamil community. Now this Christian pastor against Sinhalese community. The purpose is very clear. This will help to those who are in power now and their elections.
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SJ / May 29, 2023
You forgot Hindutva v. the rest.
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ramona therese fernando / May 25, 2023
Vast Western Plot to encourage money out of stupid countries such as ours, so global Westernized monetary system can survive and thrive.
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They found out that certain humans (and animals) have unique kinds of quantum- mechanic magnetic properties in them, enabling them to cure the sick and raise the dead, and many other things (irrespective of religion). So they made an industry of it.
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Analyzing the nature of our race, they found that our people being STUPID, hoard their wealth and are not intelligent enough to install a proper functioning capitalistic tax system for the better of our land, like the way their Western nations do.
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So they encouraged and invested a bit on Prophets such as Jerome to have their field day and glory be, and then actually convinced them that the proceeds collected are Holy, and will bloom supernaturally on the global markets.
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Human Touch / May 26, 2023
RTF Idiot
What money do we have
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Prosperity preaching is a thing.
It gives hope to desperate people and in return they make the preachers rich with their last dime.
Prosperity preachers fly expensive jets while their followers crawl.
This may be new to Sri Lanka, but this has existed in the US for ever.
Evangelicals are a biproduct of this type of preaching.
As you may know, most evangelicals are brain dead. There is nothing much anyone can do. There is not medicine for stupidity.
Leave them to their fate.
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ramona therese fernando / May 27, 2023
Human Touch,
–
What part of Hoarding and not paying Taxes don’t you understand?!!!
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Upper Middle Class (the business community who use almost slave labor of the Lankan worker) to Rich Lankans (Idle lot living off ancestral inheritances and property) to mostly the super rich Lankans (i.e. politicians who amassed the money of the hard-working Lankan workers + all the other aforementioned ways), reverently place their money on such Pastors so it can be placed on the global exchange so it can supernaturally flourish. They don’t pay or collect taxes and have no idea of using the accumulated wealth of the country on the suffering Masses for a decent functioning country.
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True, a few poor idiots also give their life-savings, but they are about 0.01%. Anyway, they supernaturally get better after the laying of hands, and can now work again to make up some of the money they gave with new increased vigor and shouting with joy. (all the sicknesses are psychosomatic illnesses that someone with a whip of a voice can chase away)
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In US, bad as it is, it’s ok as they are far richer than us. But imagine them doing it in poverty-stricken Sri Lanka?
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
Human Touch,
Indeed, all the aforementioned above are EXEMPT from the Ranilian tax brackets. They are supposed to build up the country with their excess money. This is the big investment they are indulging in! What a howling comedy! Now Evangelical Rosy is right-hand advisor to Ranil.
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old codger / May 28, 2023
Ramona,
The US may be richer than Sri Lanka, but is it really a better place for all its citizens to live? These are homeless people in Pennsylvania, your own state:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y&feature=share7
I can assure you there are no streets full of drug addicts or homeless in Colombo.
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
Old Codger,
That’s because Sri Lanka had a robust rural scene that our homeless and/or drugged can disappear into. Not so in America. And Rosy and Gota made sure they cleaned the streets of Cmb.
Anyway, US had always had a drug problem that no one knows how to handle – sitting above the traditional drug-producing countries of S America. And it has over almost 20X the population of SriLanka.
American druggies live in tents because of the inclement weather. Our fellows live in shacks which seem a normal part of the Lankan scene.
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old codger / May 28, 2023
“And Rosy and Gota made sure they cleaned the streets of Cmb.”
Surely the US has enough money to “clean the streets”, if a bankrupt island can do it?
I know you will waffle on and on. The fact is that there are no homeless crowding the streets in any SL city.
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
Old Codger,
Still Lanka spent all their money cleaning their streets to look good and have beauty contests and things. Hence the bankruptcy. As for America, all is due to the Ukraine war of which US is forced to do as Putin is intent on destroying America. America will be far worse then. Putin wants to gain absolute power- medieval concepts still happened now.
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leelagemalli / May 28, 2023
OC,
.
Unfortunately, Ramona doesn’t seem to know what she’s talking about. She may have lived in the US for ages, but she doesn’t seem to understand the issues in Sri Lanka at all….why?
Best example was Gota thought that even though he had been a refugee in that country for 15 years, he could become the president of the island nation. what happened is known to everyone as of today.
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However, it all ended with the buggers being driven out of the country by their own people.
Our people, a significant portion of them constantly overestimate their knowledge due to some genetic reasons. Mahinda Rajapaksa was the creator of all these disasters. He created a culture that we never had before.
.
How dare RAMONA compare an US style country with a country with more jokers like ” Sinhala_ man, culprits and high criminals?
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To be continued.
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
cont.
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This morning, I had time to watch some culinary-type programs on German television. I enjoyed it, I really did.
I knew that whenever they cook vegetables there, they think more about the compatibility of the mixture and how the food chemistry works so that the cooked vegetables are ready for easy digestion and reabsorption.
Do our people ever think about it? Today, many people, including children, suffer from gastritis (Magensäurebildung – acidity of the stomach) every second. God-given spices are common in Sri Lanka, but there should be an adjustment when using them together. They do not care about anything of our people and imitate the other. Most sensitive organ of the body is the stomach, however, our idiots fill it with irritating levels of hot foods, not knowing the damage they make deliberately.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scoville_scale
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This is very common to the region and they have little knowledge about the cross-reactions of what they cook. As a result they cause new types of gastro problems in an unknown allergic way.
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
RTF,
.
Our people dream of real change but when it comes to paying taxes they oppose any government. why ?
.
Anyone working in Europe is entitled to pay taxes deducted from their monthly salaries, whether they are white-collar workers or blue-collar workers. And so it is. Be it minor or major salaries, you are forced to pay them regularly. Why on earth are our well-paid doctors and other employed people in our motherland allergic to paying taxes to the government?
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I’m against the poor being oppressed, but the South Koreans were very clear that they even offered banks to mortgage their family’s wealth for real change in their economy.
We the culprits dominatied srilanka dreams of change, but we don’t contribute enough. It is no great mystery that our destiny is not as progressive as that of any comparable nation.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Alas, I am surrounded by imbeciles……
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
leelagemalli,
–
Points for your perusal before you make nonsensical comments:
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1. I didn’t compare USA to SL.
OC did. I was giving him corrective insight.
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2. Western places have a robust tax system unlike ours. We are trying to be like USA in not taxing the rich enough (SL doesn’t tax them at all) . USA maintains the world economy, so they need to some extent to maintain their billionaires. Absolutely no reason for our stupid country to ape the American system. We should follow the Scandinavian countries or Vietnam and have a flat tax for all.
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3. Doctors in SL do not get rs.250,000/mth, even with private practice. Only those above $250,000/mth need to be taxed. Maybe a surgeon or two can be taxed.
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4. Appropriate tax must be in place for business people and politicians who make large amounts on the backs of the hardworking-suffering-Lankan-worker and who usually place their money in foreign accounts, both mainstream and alternate.
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5. Current leaders are too stupid to implement appropriate tax laws more conducive for the Motherland.
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6. I agree that the food of Sri Lanka is of a high allergy-index, making people’s brains and bodies inflamed.
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old codger / May 29, 2023
Ramona,
“Doctors in SL do not get rs.250,000/mth, even with private practice.”
You don’t even live here, how would you know?
“Average Monthly Salary
237,016 LKR”
https://worldsalaries.com/average-doctor-salary-in-sri-lanka/
For your info, even a railway engine driver earns over 200,000. Even a coconut plucker charges 250 per tree. Go figure how much he earns.
Why do you think these people went on strike? You live in USA. We live here. Stop telling us what’s happening here.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Old Codger,
Oh well……let’s go up to the rs.500,000 tax bracket then, shall we? No, I am not exact on the salary scales of SL; it’s the concept that I am looking at. Yes, you will know better figures, but if a Dr. gets over 250,000 per mth, it is due to private lucrative business. Yes, they need to be well taxed. But our average Dr. Working in the gov. Hospitals get less than 100,000. They are the ones going on strike.
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ramona therese fernando / May 30, 2023
Correction : The average doctor employed by the gov. gets about rs180,000/mth. (below the proposed 250,000 tax bracket). The private business doctors are making 250,000 and more and are not appropriately taxed (or not at all), and are investing in offshore accounts including the Jerome Investment Fund, and/or spending on specialty foreign things like Louis Vuitton and fancy tourist restaurants which is totally unnecessary for the development of our country. No wonder the gov. doctors are on strike.
–
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Ministry-of-Health-Sri-Lanka-Sri-Lanka-Salaries-EI_IE580331.0,28_IL.29,38_IN45.htm
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old codger / May 30, 2023
Ramona,
You are wrong. The lowest tax bracket is 100,000.
“But our average Dr. Working in the gov. Hospitals get less than 100,000. They are the ones going on strike.”
The ones in govt. hospitals are the very same ones who run private practices. Didn’t you know that?
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
Dear RTF,
please don’t turn it to another angle now. Racism is the last place for any defeaters. To remind you again, I never represent the “Sinhalese race” but Sri Lanka and its poor people.
I will not support sinhala racists from my childhood on. I have no doubt, HUMAN TOUCH does the same.
In fact, you and many others were apologists for Sinhalese racists until recently. Today the very same you behave bit different. is not that shameless ?
I mean what you represent (you and your Bandarawella Siamese twin brother) seems to have a lot more in common than you think. Regardless of the topic, the two of you are arguing about something else.
Sinhala_man exposes everything about his and his family and has been adding his personal stuff again and again, as if a Mulleriya patient read CT articles and comments. He is more interested in NIC number of someone to the manner JVPrs did it in 89-92 brutal era.
.
Not against you both, if I may say so, if many scientists today find something and present it, if we compare it impartially, by going into history, everyone can find some sort of connection with India, Egypt, Ethiopia and other parts of this planet.
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
cont.
.
What is not inter-connected and inter-related in this world ??????
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When European scientists first introduced ASPIRIN as an anti-inflammatory, fever-relieving drug,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_aspirin
however, long before that, Indians and other alternative therapists were well aware of the relief plants. Long before penicillin was recognized as an antibiotic, some form of alternative medicine contained it long ago.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_penicillin That is the reality of most inventions today. However, if we hang on to fight its origins, it is only a few seeds for the wave of racism, which will have an effect that will kill everyone.
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wish you both a good day from Central Europe !
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Leelagemalli,
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Racism? I never said anything racist? You must never use ad hominem as a last resort for arguments.
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OC was speaking like an old colonial, and so i was enlightening him on what even the more educated whites acknowledge nowadays
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I am not a Sinhalese (just one grandmother is), and am of a large part Tamil, so I can give a more realistic picture of what I know and experienced in the Motherland. Sinhalese as the majority, need yet to be secured. They have suffered the most out of the other races. There was lot of hope and confidence in the Rajapsksas. But as time unfolded, they and their greedy advisers had not a clue on modern Democratic Capitalistic systems.
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But too many of our Sinhalese have sold off their properties, taken their assets and free Lankan tertiary educations and set up comfortably in the West as the Lankan epitome of success. My parents left our motherland due to poverty and to secure a decent livelihood for us.
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ramona therese fernando / May 30, 2023
And Leelagemalli, it is racism not give acknowledgement to the original people where great scientific and mathematical concepts originated from. It is racism to pretend that this knowledge came from a colonizing race that invaded these clever peoples’ lands. May of these colonizers and their cousins are freely acknowledging it now, however…at least the more intelligent ones.
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old codger / May 27, 2023
HT,
So you don’t believe “certain humans (and animals) have unique kinds of quantum- mechanic magnetic properties in them, enabling them to cure the sick and raise the dead”, as Ramona does?
Who is a “quantum mechanic”?
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
OC and HT,
.
This is why our grandmothers once said that if you know the subject, add something to it. If you don’t know it, silence is golden. ……RTF is twisting whatever she comes to tell us… why ?
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
aww…..poor leelagemalli…,you are having a hard time trying to keep up with rational argument, aren’t you; hard time going beyond your comfort zone isn’t it. Out of box thinking is exhausting for you, isn’t it. Alas, too many of our Lankans are like you. But our JVP boys ate extremely intelligent and should put the Motherland on a good path.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
~ But our JVP boys are extremely intelligent and should put the Motherland on a good path.
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davidthegood / May 25, 2023
P Soma Palan, Though Jerome could have avoided a controversy by not expressing his views on other religions and on Buddha, it’s now judicial. I write because of totally wrong facts about the historical Jesus. Luke 2 states a decree of Caesar Augustus required registration of all under Roman empire when Joseph and wife Mary went to Bethlehem and Jesus was born there, under Quirinius governing Syria. Also Jesus never left Israel and said so in Mat.15,24 “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,” as a woman of Canaan asked Jesus to heal her demon possessed daughter. She worshipped Jesus and pressed in till her daughter was healed. Resurrection from the dead is recorded in Acts 1 and 2, and after 40 days, his ascension to heaven was watched by disciples and numerous others. He is due to return to the same mount of olives, at the future battle of Armageddon. Kashmir, Tibet and India are inaccurate by unbiblical modern authors.
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ramona therese fernando / May 26, 2023
davidthegood,
From my own personal experience, Jesus (and his saints), have answered some of my main prayers and supplications in sometimes supernatural ways. Other times I have to suffer through things however much I pray. Meditating in the Buddhist fashion, and praying for Buddha’s support helps me to endure and undertake things that are not available from above. When Buddha attained Enlightenment, Enlightenment probably became personified and produced Jesus as a faster track towards It. And when that got out of hand, Mohammad came along to clean things up a bit. I don’t know about the Hindu Gods and Goddesses, but maybe they enjoy flitting and floating amongst sentient beings and vice versa.
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chiv / May 25, 2023
Looks like Pastor got all the attention he wanted to continue his show business. Never seen before this many authors paying attention to one stupid guy , making religiously insensitive comments. Goons like Ganasara were running around like Rabid dogs and not a whisper. Is it because, Pastor is not privileged and entitled like SB Ganasara. Pastor is now, a punching bag and all purpose scapegoat.
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Nathan / May 25, 2023
I believe that Religion is good for the Soul. I also believe that arguing over religion is not good for anything. If you truly understand Religion preach by deeds, not by words.
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Plato / May 25, 2023
The man has apologised; So the matter ends there in the true spirit of Buddhism.
If not it would confirm what is practiced in this country is Political Buddhism…………
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SJ / May 25, 2023
“There is a missing period of Jesus in his youth from 14 years of age in the Bible. This covers the period of his sojourn in Kashmir, India and Tibet.”
I suppose that tourism was a thriving industry at the time.
Did young Jesus fly El Al or Air India?
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davidthegood / May 26, 2023
SJ, Appreciate your humor on tourism, being today’s daily bread here. Jesus did more productive work and said” I do nothing of myself except what I see my father do ” Jn.5,19. Jesus obeyed the plan laid out for him in the land of Israel and said in Heb.10,7 “I have come to do the father’s will”. He did not need other gods in Kashmir, India and Tibet as these modern unbelieving authors did in addition to their search for income in writing inaccurate books
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SJ / May 27, 2023
dtg
There are many doubtful areas in the Bible.
The text itself has changed very much with time and translation.
I liked the Mormon Bible which I read more than 50 years ago for sheer creativity.
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ramona therese fernando / May 26, 2023
The Pastor needs to further enlighten himself to see the suffering of our Lankan race. He needs to place all this money he has collected, on the SME of the Motherland, i.e. if it is still available (and not gone on the Ukraine war). If, for example, a rich Saudi gave him that $350-thousand watch for supernatural blessings from Jesus, he needs to sell it off help the poor Lankans to gain industry. Western countries will understand that this is the new way of conducting business and adjust accordingly.
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Brantha / May 26, 2023
Mr P Soma Palan has proven that he also is as ignorant about Christianity as Jerome Fernando. The whole nonsense under point 2 is nothing but some figment of his imagination. Please do not show the lack of your knowledge to a readership as CT.
” A fool is seen as a wise person until he opens his mouth”
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ramona therese fernando / May 26, 2023
Brantha,
–
No. 2 is all too true – Historical facts! But I guess that (hope that) through all the horror stories of Christianity, a far greater number of people gained profound peace, humility, love, hope, and deliverance ( usually only sensational things are highlighted in history).
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 26, 2023
P. S. Palan:
“Enlightenment is realized by deep meditation. So, enlightenment comes from within and not from an outside Agent…”
The writer defines “enlightenment” as attainment of knowledge. But what sort of knowledge can be attained by sitting under a tree, closing your eyes and just “meditating”? Scientific truth can only be discovered by observation, experimentation, deduction, etc. Man can only discover what is sensible to his five senses. Anything beyond that has to be revealed to him. In the Christian worldview, the source of such revelation is God.
In the moral sphere, man, as opposed to animals, is created with a sense of morality. Not all develop it to its fullest potential and, in the biblical view, the embodiment of moral wisdom is Jesus, the source of which is ultimately God. In that sense he is called “the light of the world” (John 8:12).
Neither Siddhartha nor Jesus knew, for example, that the earth went round the sun. The difference between the two is that the latter didn’t stick his neck out on matters he didn’t know about and get it wrong.
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Human Touch / May 26, 2023
Mr. Plan
If I were you, I wouldn’t waste my breath on such triviality, who said what.
All I know is that people we voted to protect our interest have let us down for the past 73+ years.
Going after people like Jerome Fernando doesn’t solve our problems.
Let us focus on real issues instead please.
Rational, critical and logical thinking is the only way forward.
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davidthegood / May 27, 2023
Human Touch, True Jerome does not solve our problems, but those who robbed the nation and the LTTE gold have to use the created gold mafia Jerome got connected with led by his prophetic aspirations. Jerome could not wait to be accurately led, but rather hastily moved by prosperity.
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Buddhist1 / May 26, 2023
This issue lies not only with Jerome but with every single religious leader. They all twist the original teachings of each religion to their whims and fancies. It’s the failure of those who held the Minister of Education post and the Presidents who were in the past and at present. What they should have done is formulate a subject- “Religious Studies” where every religion is taught in one subject. This should be taught from Grade 5 to Undergraduate classes. If we can formulate such a system then every student in the country will learn about every religion and thereby will not follow the false teachings of the preachers.
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SJ / May 26, 2023
“But what sort of knowledge can be attained by sitting under a tree, closing your eyes and just “meditating”?”
Meditation is a process that helps in concentrating ones mind. there are many forms of it.
It could help one to bring together ones experiences to arrive at a scientific conclusion.
Food for thought:
“Vivid imagination was key to unlocking the secrets of molecular structure in the nineteenth century” [https://www.nature.com/articles/465036a].
*
Try it. It may clear the mind of rash thoughts.
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old codger / May 26, 2023
SJ,
“But what sort of knowledge can be attained by sitting under a tree, closing your eyes and just “meditating”?”
Depends on who the sitter is.
If Isaac Newton hadn’t been sitting under his apple tree, the world would have been a different place…..
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ramona therese fernando / May 27, 2023
Old Codger,
Most of the world always knew about gravity. Isaac Newton copied it from Hindu, African, and Aztec texts.
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SJ / May 27, 2023
rtf.
Very original.
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 27, 2023
OC:
To begin with, the story about Isaac Newton and the falling apple is now thought to be apocryphal. Even if this story is true, Newton, my scientific hero, sat under the apple tree just to chill out in all probability (not to engage in some kind of Buddhist meditation) and the falling apple just set him thinking about it.
/
old codger / May 27, 2023
LJ,
It seems Ramona has a different view…🤣
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ramona therese fernando / May 27, 2023
Old Codger, see this as one of them. There is enough evidence out there. : https://science-krit.com/ancient-science/knowledge-of-gravity-in-6-bce/
European colonists went all over the world and copied other countries’ scientific concepts.
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old codger / May 28, 2023
Ramona,
You really should not post dodgy religious websites to prove things you know nothing about. “The modern scientists credit Newton for the invention of gravitation.” says the website. Rubbish. Newton quantified it. He showed the MATHEMATICAL relationship between gravity and objects including celestial ones.
Of course everyone knew that gravity existed, before Newton. Easy enough to find out, by jumping off a tree.
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
OC,
–
This is from the University of Manchester:
https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/indians-predated-newton-discovery-by-250-years/
–
Why, you are really enamored by your European ancestors, aren’t you!
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old codger / May 28, 2023
Ramona,
Don’t change the subject. This is about calculus, not gravity.
Yes it is from Manchester Uni, but it is quoting an Indian who presents no evidence that math knowledge “may” have been passed on.
Show me a genuine research paper that the Indians, Egyptians or whoever worked out orbital mechanics, gravitational acceleration, etc. before Newton.
Well, at least you have come down to 250 years from 550…..
I am not saying Europeans invented everything . I know the Indians invented zero. But there is no need to create imaginary ancient Asian science.
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
Old codger,
Hindu gravity+calculus went together quite easily for the Indians. They created their calculus based on their concepts of gravity and other high-level understanding of the universe. It made Newton very clever indeed. He wouldn’t have had a clue where to begin otherwise. Likewise Darwin copied the local beliefs of the Galapagos people and then cataloged it…..being colonizers, they were able to spread these ideas around the world as theirs.
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ramona therese fernando / May 28, 2023
Old Codger,
–
A few more links for your perusal :
https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/09/21/ancient-indian-scientists-discovered-gravity-hundreds-of-years-before-newton/
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.iosrjournals.org/iosr-jhss/papers/Vol.28-Issue2/Ser-2/F2802025658.pdf
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SJ / May 28, 2023
OC
I am not subscribing to speculations on Indian theories of Gravitation, but wish to remember Aryabhata (476–550 CE), an outstanding contributor to mathematics and astronomy, based on texts that have survived, and covering vast ground in both mathematics and astronomy.
Arybhata’s main sources of knowledge include previous inventions by Greeks and Mesapotamians and the Nalanda University itself.
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leelagemalli / May 28, 2023
OC,
.
Very 👍.
.
LM
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
OC,
Remember my recent question about RAMONA and SINHALA_MAN, are they blood related? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Stumped for rational argument, aren’t you leelagemalli…..alas for our Sinhala people. Slim chance of our country prospering.
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old codger / May 29, 2023
Ramona,
How many times do I have to tell you that neither Newton or the Indians discovered or invented Gravity?
If you jump off a building, you’ll know gravity exists.
Newton showed how it works, mathematically.
Stop slinging Indian propaganda websites around . We are talking about the laws of gravity, not the earth’s diameter. Give me a scientific paper that says specifically that the Indians discovered “the force of gravity acting between the earth and any other object is directly proportional to the mass of the earth, directly proportional to the mass of the object, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance that separates the centers of the earth and the object.
Not a site which calls itself “myindiamyglory”.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Old Codger,
–
You are speaking like an old Colonial, and so i am enlightening you on what even the more educated Whites acknowledge
nowadays ( I have provided a few articles for your perusal).
_
Indian propaganda! Wow, in glorifying your colonial genes, you haven’t a clue that most of our Lankan blood comes from India! Modernize yourself, will you.
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old codger / May 29, 2023
Ramona ,
It’s actually Hindutva (BJP)
propaganda, the same as our Ravana theorists. Don’t blame me if you can’t separate fact from fiction….
And, for your info, I have consistently called for integration with India, unlike you.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Fact, Old codger, It’s Fact! Western scientists are now pulling their ears and grudgingly accepting the FACT, that they copied Math and Science from places like India. Before that, they were burning witches at stakes! But most White people are good souls, and give credit where it is due, leave hard feelings aside, and move on to work hard for their fellow man.
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
Old Codger,
_
As per integration with India, oh no, no, no, let’s not even consider that, shall we? We are quite different in the modern day from Indians…we have evolved exponentially differently ever since the Eelara conquests. Can’t encourage them too much. We thank them of course, for being so kind to us and giving us even more than the IMF, but we can’t destroy Ram Setu Bridge and things just to integrate with them. Even they don’t want it….just their greedy and stupid politicians like our Ranil who haven’t a clue on how to build up upon the riches they already have. Some integration is a good thing, but too much and can you imagine the soup our struggling masses will be in (have you seen the slums of India?….yes, we are far better…we encourage the rural scene, although Ranil will have us do away with it)?
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ramona therese fernando / May 29, 2023
And Old Codger,
–
Btw, your Europeans never knew anything about gravity till Newton educated himself on Hindu texts and also copied their Mathematics . They thought that jumping from a tree and falling down was inherent/immanant to existence and rested easy with that – what goes up must fall down was simply that.
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old codger / May 30, 2023
Ramona,
All hot air, but no specific reference, as usual.
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ramona therese fernando / May 30, 2023
Old Codger:
“Give me a scientific paper that says specifically that the Indians discovered “the force of gravity acting between the earth and any other object is directly proportional to the mass of the earth, directly proportional to the mass of the object, and inversely proportional to the square of the distance that separates the centers of the earth and the object.”
Yeah….it was written in Dravidian.
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ramona therese fernando / May 30, 2023
Old Codger,
Even been accepted by the Americans in scholarly articles:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.ajer.org/papers/Vol-9-issue-7/K09078792.pdf
/
old codger / May 30, 2023
Ramona,
What Americans? Fox News? And a fake link? You are so pathetic.
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
RTF,
please read my response to yours above. I have by mistake placed it above. Apologies for the confusion.
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old codger / May 29, 2023
LM,
At least Sinhala Man doesn’t talk about science.
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leelagemalli / May 29, 2023
OC,
.
He may be busy with NICs of CT commenters so that he does nt have any time left. Poor guy has now made me a German citizen, a lover of whites, a hater of srilanka. I really don’t know what goes through his little 😕 head. This time I m bit scared 😱 to travel back home🤔🤔🤔🤔
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 27, 2023
SJ:
I was referring specifically to Siddhartha’s supposed enlightenment attained through meditation.
True knowledge about the physical world is obtained through the scientific method: observation, formulating hypothesis, testing, studying other scientists’ work, etc. Obviously, deep thinking and imagination plays an important part in that process as in anything else. The example mentioned in the article you cited is the nineteenth-century German chemist Kekulé claiming to have pictured the ring structure of benzene after dreaming of a snake eating its own tail. I first learnt about it when I was doing AL chemistry.
But what has that got to with Buddhist meditation? Please name just one thing that is both original and true that Siddharth discovered about the world through just sitting under that famous tree, or anywhere else, and just “meditating.” On the contrary, his worldview (formed through meditation?) has been thoroughly discredited by modern science. For that matter, name any thing from Siddhartha’s teachings that is both original AND true on ANY subject.
(Of course, given my past experiences with you, I wouldn’t be waiting with baited breath for a concrete example from you.)
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 27, 2023
Sorry, “bated breath,” not “baited breath.” 😊
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old codger / May 27, 2023
LJ
“name just one thing that is both original and true that Siddharth discovered about the world through just sitting under that famous tree”
The problem with modern Buddhists is that they worship the tree more than the doctrine.
The pronouncements of religious leaders on physical things are usually couched in very vague terms. So, the Buddha can be said to have mentioned alien civilizations and quantum theory, and there are many Christian cults regularly predicting the end of the world. Nostradamus is an ongoing story. Interpretation is key.
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SJ / May 27, 2023
If each of your offensive sweeping statements requires long explanations, I think that some meditation before uttering things will help.
Who told you that meditation produced his knowledge? He had seen the world and sought explanations for questions that concerned him very much, suffering, cause of suffering and relief from suffering were central to his inquiry. He tried various other things before he sat down under a tree.
His meditation helped to bring together his thought and experience.
I will not waste time on what you think about his conclusions, but he was a lot more rational than any other founder of a religion.
Has science dismissed his motion of impermanence, and the absence of eternal soul and irrelevance of God to man’s salvation.
*
BTW
Has modern science affirmed the Judeo-Christian views of creation for a start?
/
SJ / May 27, 2023
…his notion of impermanence….
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
SJ:
“If each of your offensive sweeping statements requires long explanations….” [sic]
Is challenging you to produce any thing both original and true in Siddhartha’s teachings (or what is attributed to him since his teachings were put down in writing centuries later) offensive? Is it offensive to state that his worldview, with its innumerable world-systems, including our own (at the center of which is the mythical Mount Meru), floating in an infinite empty space, etc., has been discredited by modern science? Is the truth offensive?
“I think that some meditation before uttering things will help.”
Is to be offended so easily and for nothing one of the fruits of “meditation”?
“Who told you that meditation produced his knowledge?”
Knowledge about the physical world is gained through the scientific method. Knowledge of any thing that lies outside the physical realm has to be revealed to man. Anything that is true in Siddhartha’s teaching is not original and whatever is original is not true (see below).
Don’t get me wrong. If by “meditation” you mean, “thinking deeply about a subject with a view to gaining right understanding or reaching correct conclusions,” then I, too, meditate. But remember: garbage in, garbage out.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
But Buddhist meditation goes beyond that. “Buddhist meditation [is] the practice of mental concentration leading ultimately through a succession of stages to the final goal of spiritual freedom, nirvana” (Encyclopedia Britannica). The concept of Nirvana includes ultimately ending the cycle of rebirths. Do you believe in rebirth?
SJ:
“He had seen the world and sought explanations for questions that concerned him very much, suffering, cause of suffering and relief from suffering were central to his inquiry.”
You are referring to the so called Four Noble Truths and I knew in advance that, if at all, this would be all that you’d cite as Siddhartha’s “achievements.”
1. There is suffering. What fool does not know it? Read the OT book of Job if want to learn about extreme suffering.
2. Suffering has an identifiable cause: tanha (“thirst”). It covers the whole gamut from the gross forms like lust for money and sensual pleasures to even the desire to do good and even know the truth. Well, “Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life” (Proverbs 13:12, attributed to King Solomon [10th century B.C.]).
3. Tanha, the cause of suffering, is terminated by attaining Nibbana.
Continued.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
Continued from last comment:
“In this fathom-long body, with all its perceptions and thoughts, do I proclaim the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world and the path leading to the cessation of the world.” This from a man whose worldview included a world-system which had a non-existent Mount Meru at its core.
According to Sid, in order to avoid the cycle of rebirths, we have to get rid of tanha. But certain forms of desires are necessary to live at all. If farmers did not have the desire to grow and harvest, we would all die, including the parasitic Buddhist clergy (and in his time Siddhartha), who are busy ostensibly trying to get rid of tanha. Nibbana presupposes rebirth, but what if this is the only life we have and Sid was wrong about the wheel of life?
4. The Noble Eightfold Path, the way to achieve (3) above. Right thought, right action, words, etc. Where these make sense and are useful I agree. You can learn loads of practical wisdom from the OT, especially from the book of Proverbs, written before Sid.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
Continued from last comment.
SJ: “I will not waste time on what you think about his conclusions, but he was a lot more rational than any other founder of a religion.”
That is because the little you have said is all you have to say and “I will not waste time” is your way of avoiding having to say more, which you can’t. Don’t forget that you are the one who initiated this exchange and you habitually raise points in your comments not relevant to the thread. Sid’s rationality is evident in his scientifically debunked worldview. As for the wheel of life, etc., those are his delusions.
SJ: “Has science dismissed his motion of impermanence, and the absence of eternal soul and irrelevance of God to man’s salvation.”
The “motion” of impermanence, with regard to this world, is a self-evident truth and wise men of all ages would have realized it. The writer of the OT of Ecclesiastes (attributed to Solomon) understood it long before Sid. That is why opens his book thus: “Vanity of vanities… All is vanity” (meaning all things are fleeting or elusive)–Ecclesiastes 1:1. I would highly recommend this book for your reading and you’ll be a wiser man for it.
Continued.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
Continued from last comment.
“Eternal soul” is not a concept taught in the Bible but introduced to Christendom by the Catholic Church influenced by Greek philosophy. Please do your research before writing. Your “meditation” hasn’t helped you here.
SJ: “[I]rrelevance of God to man’s salvation.”
Now who is being “offensive” here? How can science say any thing about this? That is Sid’s own deluded, ignorant opinion, shared by equally ignorant, deluded people like you.
“Has modern science affirmed the Judeo-Christian views of creation for a start?”
If you will care to specify what “Judeo-Christian views of creation” you have in mind, I will comment.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
Correction of inadvertent omission: “The writer of the OT BOOK of Ecclesiastes….”
/
SJ / May 28, 2023
““motion” of impermanence”
I corrected it to notion of…
And you carefully missed it.
Pretty smart!
*
Say what you like, but the Buddha was way ahead of other thinkers of the pre Christian era and several centuries of the Christian era.
His rejection of a God creator, an eternal soul and the eternal changing nature of things place him many steps ahead of the rest.
*
Before trying to make people wiser by reading a work or two that you happened to have read, learn to appreciate other faiths and the wisdom of thinkers of other schools of thought.
/
SJ / May 29, 2023
His rejection of a God creator and an eternal soul and recognition of the eternally changing nature of things place him many steps ahead of the rest.
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
SJ:
““motion” of impermanence”
I corrected it to notion of…
And you carefully missed it.
Pretty smart!”
I saw your correction after I had posted my replies to you.
SJ: “Say what you like, but the Buddha was way ahead of other thinkers of the pre Christian era and several centuries of the Christian era.
His rejection of a God creator and an eternal soul and recognition of the eternally changing nature of things place him many steps ahead of the rest.”
Yeah, continue in your same old ways by resorting to arguing by assertion completely ignoring my rebuttal (as detailed as the word limit for CT comments permit) of your reply. There is no hope for you. You were quick to pounce on the only flaw you could detect in my five-part response to you, viz., my overlooking your correction of “motion of impermanence,” but left untouched all other points. Isn’t that revealing?
“Before trying to make people wiser by reading a work or two that you happened to have read, learn to appreciate other faiths and the wisdom of thinkers of other schools of thought.”
I can appreciate and acknowledge whatever is correct in the teachings or wisdom of any one, but do I have to “appreciate” their falsehoods too?
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
Continued from last comment.
I would take this opportunity to revisit an old point: your reference to Sid’s view that God is irrelevant to salvation.
Actually, “salvation” in Buddhism and Christianity (by which I mean BIBLICAL Christianity, not the erroneous traditional kind) means two different things. In Buddhism it is attaining Nirvana but in Christianity it means being saved from sins. Jesus was so named because he was to save his people from their sins (Matthew 1:21). I will not now go into how this is achieved according to the NT. The one so saved receives eternal life, which is devoid of the sorrows and pains such as we experience in this life. The fate of the unsaved is extinction at death (like animals), since man has no immortal soul as per the teaching of the Bible.
Finally, unless you make at least an attempt to address the specific points of my fairly detailed rebuttal of your original reply, this exchange is at an end as far as I am concerned.
/
Human Touch / May 26, 2023
This is a business.
Jerome has just brought it to Sri Lanka.
Watch and see.
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DrfaKo9_IC4&feature=share9
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leelagemalli / May 28, 2023
HT,
Not many of our CT viewers give a damn to even such videos base on facts.
Thanks for the link.
.
May our punnakku drinkers dominated nation be blessed with brains.
Jerome Fernando or the like were easily bred in the criminal culture made by Rajapakses. 🤔
.
I wish I could hear what brother Charles has got to say about joker Jerome Fernando.
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RBH59 / May 27, 2023
To my mind To my mind expressing a true and objective view of a religious founder and religion does not amount to insulting and derogation.
But Jerome is expressing a not true objective other people religion That why you look by yourself and 99 name Allah and dis cover the word Al wadood it is love, in Islam Jesus highest level in the highest wave length, Jesus came after Buddhism Enlighted the then people.
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 27, 2023
Palan:
“Enlightenment is realized by deep meditation.”
Also Palan:
[Modern Researchers and Scholars] have supportive evidence that Jesus survived the Crucifixion and healed, and found his way to Kashmir in India, where he lived and died at the age of 86. His tomb is still extant and is a veritable proof of this.
All I will say is that, if Palan meditates, it hasn’t helped him toward “enlightenment,” for if he cared to do proper research using the reliable sources, the four canonical Gospels in particular, which are the earliest records we have for the life of Jesus, he would reach a different conclusion. No respected scholar to my knowledge will concur with the above view and the “modern researchers and scholars” that he refers to belong to the lunatic fringe in the field of Bible study, and they have no recognition in the scholarly community.
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Paul / May 28, 2023
Leonard Jayawardena,
.
‘1. There is suffering. What fool does not know it? Read the OT book of Job if want to learn about extreme suffering.’
.
You really need to understand what the Buddha was referring to before you start typing. https://www.dhammatalks.net/Books3/Ajahn_Sumedho_The_Four_Noble_Truths.htm
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 28, 2023
Paul:
Instead of referring me to someone else’s talk, please explain why you disagree and, if possible, summarise the talk. Just referring to some other source is usually a sign that the referrer is does not know the subject properly.
/
SJ / May 29, 2023
“Just referring to some other source is usually a sign that the referrer is [?] does not know the subject properly.”
Nice to know.
/
Paul / May 28, 2023
As you wish. ‘There is suffering’ the First Noble Truth is not a metaphysical statement saying that everything is suffering.
There is a difference between a metaphysical statement where you are making a statement about an absolute and a Noble Truth which is a personal reflection. A Noble Truth is a truth to reflect upon; it is not an absolute. People get confused about this because they interpret this Noble Truth as a kind of metaphysical truth of Buddhism and say that the Buddha taught that everything is suffering.
.
The First Noble Truth is phrased in a very particular way: ‘There is suffering,’ rather than, ‘I suffer.’ Psychologically, that reflection is a much more skilful way to put it. We tend to interpret our suffering as ‘I’m really suffering. I suffer a lot — and I don’t want to suffer.’ This is the way our thinking mind is conditioned.
.
But as a Noble Truth it is not personal suffering anymore. When we see it as ‘There is suffering’, we are just admitting that Dukkha is present in the current moment. We we are not trying to identify with the problem but simply acknowledge that there is one.
.
This recognition of the situation, without any personal involvement or underlying assumptions, is the start of the process of mental training that leads to the recognition of non-suffering.
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SJ / May 28, 2023
P
You are wasting your breath.
Is there a brick wall nearby?
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
SJ
You are impressed with Paul’s “reply” to my comment to him?
I am stonewalled against crap but your pol kudu brain …
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SJ / May 29, 2023
I think that you are a waste of time.
That is all.
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
There is a typo in your comment: “I am” should be substituted for “you are.”
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
Paul:
“‘There is suffering’ the First Noble Truth is not a metaphysical statement saying that everything is suffering.” [sic]
Who said “everything is suffering”? Did you even UNDERSTAND my point? The fact that you right off the bat say something irrelevant to my point signals to me that you are about to mindlessly parrot something you have picked up from somewhere.
My point is that the reality of suffering, whether experienced personally or observed as being part of the human condition, has been appreciated by human beings before Siddhartha, so there is nothing new in the first “Noble Truth.”
Is this all you have to say in response to my five-part reply to Silly John? What about the other points? Anyway, congratulations, you have done better than him (which is not difficult to do anyway).
/
Paul / May 29, 2023
SJ, you are right, pearls and swine.
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Leonard Jayawardena / May 29, 2023
“pearls and swine.”
You are addressing these words to yourself and your side kick Silly John, right?
/
Leonard Jayawardena / May 30, 2023
Paul, let me try again. Whether the reality of suffering as experienced personally, as seen part of the human condition or in the abstract sense that you seem to describe, that is, as being inherent in human existence, was it not seen and appreciated by wise men before Siddhartha?:
/