By Darshanie Ratnawalli –
“May you live in interesting times”- An obscure Chinese curse.
What makes certain social sciences scholars of Sri Lanka interesting is a strange fallibility in acquiring the basic text book information on subjects they write about. Even a cursory trawl through academic writings falling under Sri Lankan studies will flush out scholars, some of them quite high profile, who have left for posterity, evidence of this fallibility. Ranjini Obeyesekere, a medievalist scholar in Sinhalese literature wrote (A Survey of The Sinhala Literary tradition[i], 1979); “It can be claimed that the introduction of Buddhism to Sri Lanka in the third century, B.C., resulted in the creation of the Sinhala language, literature, and nation.” What causes such sentences to be written is the erroneous belief that in the third century BC, missionary monks from the Mauryan Court arriving in Lanka in shiploads, brought with them a language which they taught to the inhabitants in order to enable them to use the new language to dedicate caves to the newly established monastic Buddhist Order; and that it was this new missionary language, which eventually spread to the masses and evolved into the present Sinhala language. What could have helped Ranjini Obeyesekere to avoid such an error is the information that by the time Buddhism was introduced to Sri Lanka, the Sinhala language had already undergone several centuries of ‘creation’ within the shores of Lanka and the ‘creators’ were the pre-Buddhist teeth, palettes and the tongues of the island population. The easiest way to acquire this information would have been through a tete-a-tete with a friendly linguist or a competent ancient period historian. A more hard-working way would have been to plod through texts.
Around 1960, specialist in the making, Saddhamangala Karunaratne made a certain remark in his Ph.D. dissertation[ii] approved by the University of Cambridge that may have caused R. Obeyesekere to imagine a fusion between the language of the Buddhist missionaries and the language of the 3rd century BC Lankans out of which(according to her conceptualization) emerged the Sinhala language. The remark was; “The earliest inscriptions of Ceylon are short records containing stereotyped phrases of the Buddhist monks. The language of these records may well reflect, for some time at least, the language of the Buddhist missionaries, and not the original Sinhalese.”
This remark is not exactly on the ball because it was made on insufficient data. In 1960, the number of published early Brahmi inscriptions were fewer and Inscriptions of Ceylon, Vol.1 (IC 1)[iii], the seminal work in which almost 95% of the available Early Brahmi inscriptions were published (1276 inscriptions from 269 ancient sites distributed in 16 of the 22 districts of 1970 Ceylon) and the information in them properly codified for easy analysis was still 10 years in the future. IC 1 cleanly bisected SL historiography into two phases; before IC 1 and after IC 1. Post IC 1 it was possible for scholars to spot the errors in pre IC 1 publications.
Here’s a curious history. After Cambridge, Saddhamangala Karunaratne attained many career heights finally culminating in Archaeological Commissioner of Sri Lanka. Yet, his thesis was not published until 24 years later, after he had become retired Archaeological Commissioner. When it was finally published as a special volume(VII) of Epigraphia Zeylanica in 1984 it was not updated at all but was published “substantially in the same form as it was originally presented to the University of Cambridge”-(See Preface, pp.viii). One of the people given credit in the preface for valuable guidance in the thesis work was K. R Norman, “M.A., of Downing College Cambridge”. In the post IC 1 phase, K. R Norman said;
“…and we can probably assume that the language of the Sinhalese whom Mahinda met did not differ greatly from that of the earliest inscriptions. Karunaratne thought (pp. 82-83) that the language of these early inscriptions might well reflect, for some time at least, the language of the Buddhist missionaries, and not the original Sinhalese. It is true that, as all the early inscriptions are donative, commemorating gifts to the Sangha or to individual bhikkus, the possibility of influence by the language of the Buddhist missionaries upon the local vernacular cannot be denied. The language of the inscriptions in Ceylon has the following distinctive features: [a]the nom. Sg. of -a stems is in –e
[b] the only sibilant is śa (‘sha’- parenthesis mine)
[c] historic ja is everywhere replaced by jha
[d] the distribution of ra and la follows the pattern of Sanskrit.
[e] the gen. sg. of –a stems is in aśa or –aha
[f] there is sporadic loss of aspiration, eg. Tera (for thera), saga (sa(m)gha), kota (kotha), gapati (ghapati<gahapati), bada (badha)
[g] jhita occurs for dhita
It could be suggested that the first two characteristics showed the influence of Maghadhi, on the assumption that the missionaries spoke Maghadhi or included Magadhi-speakers among their number, or even brought texts in Magadhi with them, but it is clear that the other characteristics of Sinhalese Prakrit do not support this suggestion. An examination of the Asokan inscriptions shows that the Sinhalese inscriptions are written in a Prakrikt which does not agree with any of the extant Asokan dialects, but which seems to have deviated much more from the norm of Sanskrit than any of them. If this dialect was influenced by that of any of the missionaries then they must have spoken a Prakrit which differs from any other known to us. It seems more likely that Sinhalese Prakrit developed in the way it did because it was introduced long before Mahinda, perhaps in the fifth century B.C., and thereafter had little contact with the Prakrits of North India.”- (p32-33, “The Role of Pali in Early Sinhalese Buddhism[iv]”. Full text here.)
The ancestor of Sinhalese was a middle Indo Aryan language or a Prakrit, which arrived in Lanka several centuries earlier than 3rd century BC. When first arrived, it was probably a language that facilitated long distance commercial and other transactions. Soon, it was internalized by the inhabitants and transformed by them into a language of love, hate, humour and everyday living. As a result the language underwent important linguistic changes and became distinct. We can say this, “since we have inscriptions in old Sinhala dating from the early second or late third centuries B.C., and by that time the language had already undergone important changes that made it distinct from any of the Indo-Aryan languages of North India”- (James W.Gair:1996[v], full text here). Thus, by the time Buddhism was introduced to Lanka, independently of that event, there had emerged, out of the shadowy Prakrit or Prakrits of the 5th century BC, what we now call, “old Sinhala” of 3rd century BC, which was then used exclusively by a pan island people movement, including even those obviously belonging to different linguistic groups, to record in writing, their patronage of the new religious order, simultaneously also highlighting themselves, their parentages, lineages, genealogies, titles, occupations and groupings. So that, in most inscriptions, over and above the background music of the Buddhistic stereo-typed content, we hear the populace.
@ http://ratnawalli.blogspot.com/ and rathnawalli@gmail.com
[i] Obeyesekere, Ranjini 1979 “A Survey of the Sinhala Literary Tradition,” in Tissa Fernando and Robert N. Kearney (eds.) Modern Sri Lanka: A Society in Transition, Maxwell School, Syracuse University, pp. 265-85.
[ii] Karunaratne, W.S (Wijesinghe Saddhamangala): “Unpublished Brahmi Inscriptions of Ceylon”
[iii] Inscriptions of Ceylon-Volume 1, edited by S. Pranavitana, which gives the texts and translations together with (in most cases) photographic plates of their mechanical estampages, of 1276 Early Brahmi inscriptions (41 are inscribed on rocks; the rest in caves) from 269 ancient sites distributed in 16 of the 22 districts into which Lanka was divided at the time of publication(1970).
[iv] K. R Norman, “The Role of Pāli in Early Sinhalese Buddhism” in Heinz Bechert (ed.): Buddhism in Ceylon and Studies on religious syncretism in Buddhist Countries, Göttingen, 1978, p28-47
[v] “Sinhala, an Indo-Aryan Isolate”: James W. Gair in “Studies in South Asian Linguistics. Sinhala and Other South Asian Languages”. The PDF I have uploaded has two more good articles; “How Dravidianized was Sinhala Phonology? Some Conclusions and Cautions” and “Some Aspects of the Jaffna Tamil Verbal System”
Gurusingha / January 26, 2014
Sinhala is very similar to Divehi (Maldivian) and Telegu (Andra Pradesh).
The TELEGU SCRIPT is also SIMILAR to the Sinhala;
you will be ABLE TO READ the majority of this ‘VEERA TELANGANA’;
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=veera+telangana&hl=en&rlz=1I7ADFA_enGB476&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=sy7kUpPHMMex0AX2uoDYAw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg&biw=1280&bih=631
Kannada (Karnataka) and Burmese is also similar.
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shankar / January 26, 2014
Guru,you are quite right.Telugu and sinhala are the same.How did that happen i wonder.Only two ways it can,one,sinhala copied telugu,two,telugu itself has the indo aryan origins just like sinhala and they both originated from the same source from orissa.Orissa is just adjoining andrapradesh,so that could be possible with andra people being of kalinga ancestry and migrating south and forming their own kingdom.
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Naide Appu / January 26, 2014
The Tamil element can also been seen and heard
Andrans, thougt Vadugans (northerner/Aryan mied) are considered Dravidian.
One cannot ignore this and exaggerate the other.
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Javi / January 26, 2014
Perpetuating their hegemony of Prakrit in order to exclude the common people from sharing power!!
In 2008- The Indian Government has not included Pali as a classical language, for security reasons.-
Classical Languages: Tamil (in 2004), Sanskrit (in 2005), Telugu and Kannada (in 2008), and Malayalam (in 2013)
The Pallava dynasty existed between the 2nd and 9th centuries CE. However, Telugu did not exist during Pallava rule. Pallavas were bandits from Patna who seduced a Telugu chieftain’s daughter and moved quickly within the now weak great Chola Kingdom because they knew Sanskrit and the rituals (this was a repeat of what happened in the North West by the Mughals after Alexander the Great left in fear Chandra Gupta the Great and died in Babylon 2 years later.)
Can you picture Linda prostituting valli the telugu please ref: https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/our-buddhist-sanga-is-spiritually-exhausted/comment-page-1/#comment-861550
Linda S. January 22, 2014 at 6:03 pm.
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ken robert / January 26, 2014
‘Perpetuating their hegemony of prakrit in order to exclude the common people from sharing power’
Javi
This should be the headline of Dharshanie’s essays. Dharshanie’s assertion is that ancesters of Srilankans arrived before third century from orissa , brought their language, religion and perhaps their delusional minds.
Please forget about dravidian languages, antiquity of south indians dating back more than 30000 years evidenced by genetic studies, geographical proximity, presence of 20% of vocabulary from tamil, presence of hinduism before the arrival of buddhism in srilanka, Urn burial sites of pomparrippu and kantorodai. All of these is yakkage katha.
Truth is prakrit–> old sinhala–> hela–> clssical sinhala–> modern sinhala. Proponents are Gair, Paranavithana, Norman. I wonder whether any of this proponents have mastered any dravidian languages?
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Javi / January 26, 2014
Hey Ken,
The truth is the buck stops with India. The north/south of Indo Chino Bhai Bye, Nehru Aryan/ Dravidian is fit for villager’s romance. Undoubtedly the best copy cats the world has seen are the technically and artistically superior Romans. Sri Lankans are light years behind the British (less latin) and French (more latin). The British very often need French words and phrases to give the essence as much as Hindi needs Urdu.
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Javi / January 26, 2014
`ancesters of Srilankans arrived before third century from orissa¬
So the smart Sinhalese jumped over the head of Cholas and arrived in Lanka just because Asoka the Mad and Chandra Gupta the Great could not invade the Chola kingdom??
Are you too drawing your lineage from Bihari Bandits from the Dutch post at Patna??
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ken robert / January 26, 2014
Javi
In fairness Cola came quite late near tenth century. Pallavas preceded them around fifth century. What happened before that is not clear in the south country.
May be it is Naga tribes. Mahavamsa carefully avoided talking about them. In fact there is little archeological evidence in India before first millenium in comparison to the romans and greeks.
What is clear was a number of tribes lived in India prechristian times(5000 years BC) and there were clever enought to migrate to Australia and influence the aboriginals of Australia.
Apparently they took a demala balla with them!
Warm regards
Ken
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Javi / January 27, 2014
Hi Ken,
I don’t know about Cola but I have drunk Thumbs Up Indira’s first coke equivalent and have touched Chola Dynasty, and Maratha Dynasty Ajanta, Ellora Elephant, and its copy by Pallavas Mahavalipuram. I have touched the foot print of Chandra Gupta Mayura the Great at Karatanaka where the last Pallava King was slaughtered. Everything Buddhist there is Chola so are the images therefore even the EU has the bronze dancing nataraja to understand space, time and god particle and why not any of your data providers??
When I provide you with this information it is what I touched and tasted no love because it does not work with wisdom not knowledge.
The tasting of this is with the Marathas and that gives 100% of who they are on the earth they stand for- Go check it out from the British Generals of 1818 and now who they are; soft spoken,no loudness like Punjabi or like the great gurka warrior.
There is evidence in India (read Percy Brown Buddhist, Hindu Islamic Jain architecture periods) then go and touch more like Alexander the Great of 330BC to west Punjab and why he went berserk and killed woman and child and of course what he took away and why Hitler raped Greece. Please go I have to all these places of Europe too and touched them where tasted them (carbon imprints seen for age)
Honestly I don’t know about your classification of demala balla or Sinhala hutta. I will come on this in a romantic way soon but…I have touched Bali and wonderful sculpture of the Hindus.
All I know about kangaroo land is the way good old Blighty sees of you. Europe draws the triangle on India and Lanka- Spanish/Portuguese, Dutch, British. This makes me learn things before Isabella Catholic of Spain, Elizabeth 1- Shakespeare, and the merry seafarers Drake. The Spanish girl organised the whole of European royalty to be related right up to Norway of today.
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Native Vedda / January 27, 2014
ken robert
Here is something that would be of interest to you.
Tamil Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found near Erode
By Express News Service – ERODE Published: 17th May 2013 08:37 AM Last Updated: 17th May 2013 09:07 AM
Photos
Workshop where ornaments were manufactured. |Express
In a major find that throws evidence to Erode’s connection to Tamil Brahmi era, a research team of Pondicherry University found several pot shells containing Tamil Brahmi letters dating to 500 BC at Kodumanal near Chennimalai.
A team of students from Pondicherry University, led by Dr K Rajan and TN archaeological department assistant director Subramaniam, has been carrying out research for the past one month in the region. Recently, the team during its work in Kodumanal found several antiques, besides the pot shells.
Team members, while explaining about the Kodumanal find, said that Tamil Brahmi words like Adinthai, Madanthai, Kuviran, Sumanan, Samban, Vindaveli, Pannan, Bagan, Yadan, etc were found on the pot shells.
Detailing the Chennimalai’s connect to ancient days, the team pointed out that the area had 165 tombs and of these 17 were taken up for research.
While in one of the tombs, many precious stones were found, the team during its study in the region also stumbled upon shell bangles, roulette pottery and sword bit contained spheroidal graphite phase and forge welding of high carbon cutting edge, etc.
The present excavations were made in 8 points near Pandiyan Nagar and a burial ground. Many beads, high quality iron materials like arrow heads, spears, swords, megalithic tombs, iron and steel furnaces, several precious stones like garnet, carnelian, lapis lazuli, sapphire, quartz, etc., were found. The area also contains some objects made of tusks and other materials which could have been used for weaving cotton in those days.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Tamil-Brahmi-script-dating-to-500-BC-found-near-Erode/2013/05/17/article1593552.ece1
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Javi / January 27, 2014
NV
Erode, Coimbatoor is where the saree originated. Even today they export 75% of Indias Textiles, and produce 58% of Indias production.
Understanding the silk route, the Roman and Dutch Routes for textiles from east and west, not just Kerala pepper the European currency while the Arbs ruled South Europe Spain for 800 years. Also the Jews refuge from Romans and their route to textiles and spices.
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ken robert / January 28, 2014
Thanks Native
It is quite early to draw conclusions about these findings. It proves that brammi scripts existed not only in srilanka but also in south indian flat lands where it is hard to find these scripts in comparison to rocky terrain in srilanka.
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Native Vedda / January 28, 2014
ken robert
Most scholars are fixated with Asokan Brahmi similar to Aryan Dravidian dichotomy.
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Ken Robert / January 29, 2014
Native thanks for the references.
I found it difficult to read because some of the links were dead.
kind regards
ken
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Native Vedda / January 30, 2014
Ken Robert
Please copy and paste this link
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/library/rassl-journal-articles/
This link will open search boxes under three categories.
Type language in keyword.
That will do the trick.
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Native Vedda / January 28, 2014
ken robert
Here is a list of papers on Languages of languages:
Title: An Early Phase of Sinhalese Compared with Early Modern Indo-Aryan
Author(s): Hettiaratchi, D.E.
Volume: N.S.20 (Year – 1976)
Pages: 17-30
Keyword(s): modern Indo-Aryan language,Bengali,Apabhransa atage,various texts,lithic records in Prakritic Sinhalese,languages in Asokan
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1976/N.S.20/An-Early-Phase-of-Sinhalese-Compared-with-Early-Modern-Indo-Aryan.pdf
Title: The Dravidian Element in Sinhalese.
Author(s): Gnana Prakasar, S.
Volume: 33-89 (Year – 1936)
Pages: 233-253
Keyword(s): grammar,syntax in Sinhalese,evolution of the Sinhalese language,pronouns,particles indicating Dravidian origin,Aryan,Dravidian
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1936/33-89/The-Dravidian-Element-in-Sinhalese..pdf
Title: Place of Tamil in the Science of Language
Author(s): Gnana Prakasar,Rev.S.
Volume: 30-80 (Year – 1927)
Pages: 410-435
Keyword(s): Deictics in Tamil,origin of thought and language,primary and secondary words,physical to metaphysical,theories of the origin of language,Tamil and the Indo-European languages
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1927/30-80/Place-of-Tamil-in-the-Science-of-Language.pdf
Title: Language Contact and Linguistic Area: Sinhala – Tamil Contact Situation.
Author(s): Coperahewa, Sandagomi.
Volume: N.S.53 (Year – 2007)
Pages: 133-152
Keyword(s): language contact and linguistic area hypothesis,South Asia as a linguistic area,Sinhala and Tamil,consequences of language contact,lexical aspects of Sinhala-Tamil language contact,Godakumbure
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/2007/N.S.53/Language-Contact-and-Linguistic-Area–Sinhala—Tamil-Contact-Situation..pdf
Title: Brahmi Script in Relation to Mesopotamian Cuneiform.
Author(s): Dias, Malini., Miriyagalla, Das.
Volume: N.S.53 (Year – 2007)
Pages: 91-108
Keyword(s): beginning of writing,development of akkadian language,development of alphabet,spred of aramaic and greek as link languages,important trade exchange,writing originating in other parts of the world,spread of writing to India,progress of Brahmi
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/2007/N.S.53/Brahmi-Script-in-Relation-to-Mesopotamian-Cuneiform..pdf
Title: An Early Phase of Sinhalese Compared with Early Modern Indo-Aryan
Author(s): Hettiaratchi, D.E.
Volume: N.S.20 (Year – 1976)
Pages: 17-30
Keyword(s): modern Indo-Aryan language,Bengali,Apabhransa atage,various texts,lithic records in Prakritic Sinhalese,languages in Asokan
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1976/N.S.20/An-Early-Phase-of-Sinhalese-Compared-with-Early-Modern-Indo-Aryan.pdf
Title: The Dravidian Element in Sinhalese.
Author(s): Gnana Prakasar, S.
Volume: 33-89 (Year – 1936)
Pages: 233-253
Keyword(s): grammar,syntax in Sinhalese,evolution of the Sinhalese language,pronouns,particles indicating Dravidian origin,Aryan,Dravidian
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1936/33-89/The-Dravidian-Element-in-Sinhalese..pdf
Title: Place of Tamil in the Science of Language
Author(s): Gnana Prakasar,Rev.S.
Volume: 30-80 (Year – 1927)
Pages: 410-435
Keyword(s): Deictics in Tamil,origin of thought and language,primary and secondary words,physical to metaphysical,theories of the origin of language,Tamil and the Indo-European languages
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/1927/30-80/Place-of-Tamil-in-the-Science-of-Language.pdf
Title: Language Contact and Linguistic Area: Sinhala – Tamil Contact Situation.
Author(s): Coperahewa, Sandagomi.
Volume: N.S.53 (Year – 2007)
Pages: 133-152
Keyword(s): language contact and linguistic area hypothesis,South Asia as a linguistic area,Sinhala and Tamil,consequences of language contact,lexical aspects of Sinhala-Tamil language contact,Godakumbure
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/2007/N.S.53/Language-Contact-and-Linguistic-Area–Sinhala—Tamil-Contact-Situation..pdf
Title: Brahmi Script in Relation to Mesopotamian Cuneiform.
Author(s): Dias, Malini., Miriyagalla, Das.
Volume: N.S.53 (Year – 2007)
Pages: 91-108
Keyword(s): beginning of writing,development of akkadian language,development of alphabet,spred of aramaic and greek as link languages,important trade exchange,writing originating in other parts of the world,spread of writing to India,progress of Brahmi
http://www.royalasiaticsociety.lk/journals/2007/N.S.53/Brahmi-Script-in-Relation-to-Mesopotamian-Cuneiform..pdf
The Dravidian Element in SinhaleseAuthor(s): C. E. GodakumburaSource: Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 11,No. 4 (1946), pp. 837-841Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of School of Oriental and African StudiesStable URL:
http://www.jstor.org/stable/608596
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Javi / January 27, 2014
Ken Roberts,
“Dharshanie’s assertion is that ancesters of Srilankans arrived before third century from orissa , brought their language, religion and perhaps their delusional minds.”
Ha ha Aiyoooo!
Its the European missionaries who gave the Sinhalese their underwear and clothes because they were hanging from trees in the veddhas borrowed amude.
As your pals Norman etc if they have no shame for having driven out the missionary schools to let the yellow robed(borrowed from hindu but not the orange head gear; see swami vivekananda bengali) cannibals
Commonely known today as those sexy Half Round Clay Tiles which the Sinhalese now call sinhala ulu is from the missionary.
Spanish Roofing S type Rustic Antique Red, Dark /Light, `Mission Clay Roof Tile`
1 English; Shirt Spanish: Camisa; Sinhala: Amude/Camisa
2 English: Shoe; Spanish: Zapato; Sinhala: Amude/Sapatu
3 English: Towel Spanish: Toalla; Sinhala : Amude/Toalla
4 English: Table Spanish: Mesa; Sinhala : Amude/Mesa
5 English: Closet Spanish: Armario; Sinhala : Amude/ Armario
6 English: Space; Spanish: Sala; Sinhala: Amude/Sala
So primarily they never had any language called prakrit on this line.
Spanish Burro is the appropriate word of her thinking and perhaps Norman etc. English/Donkey; Singlish:Buruwa.
I can enlighten you more about the Delft Netherlands (City Planning)and how the Dutch Post in India were constructed during Roman Emperor Carlos 1 of Flanders(his mistress was dutch) brother of Catherine she gave part of Goa as dowry to marry
Henry V111.At the Delft I met the UP/Biharis/Hindus who were taken to Surinam- their faces so different and simple but content.
Nutmeg was the spice of aristocrats not cinnamon.
best wishes
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Ken Robert / January 29, 2014
Javi
Your analysis of words is a discipline called Archaic Dialectology, which is the study of variations in language according to geographical features.
I am reproducing a comment by Kumar for easy reference from a previous discussion.
Let me extract all the words (examples) that the pre-school teacher Ratnavalli was teaching the tiny tot Professor Sitrampalam in the order Sanskrit, Pali, Sinhala Prakrit (old Sinhala), Elu, and Tamil (Tamil was added by me).
1.Sanskrit : Dharma Pali: dhamma Sinhala Prakrit (old Sinhala): dama Elu: Dam/daham Tamil: Dharmam
2.Sanskrit : bhūmi Pali: bhūmi Sinhala Prakrit (old Sinhala): bumi Elu: bima Tamil: bumi
3.Sanskrit : dīrgha Pali: dīgha Sinhala Prakrit (old Sinhala): Diga Elu: Digu Tamil: Deerka
4.Sanskrit : dāsa/dāsya Pali: dāsa Sinhala Prakrit (old Sinhala): dasa Elu: das Tamil: das/dasan
This shows difference. I am not an expert to compare and contrast, But they all look similar to me.
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Pierre Bezukhov / June 5, 2015
Ken Roberts
//presence of hinduism before the arrival of buddhism in srilanka///
this shows very very clearly that you little or no grasp of history
Hinduism as it is practiced today developed AFTER Buddhism in India – research on this in the internet – just a cursory reaearch will tell you this – so how come Hinduism was in SL BEFORE Buddhism was introduced
Or are you suggesting Hinduism was ORIGINATED IN Sri Lanka ? :o
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M.Sivananthan / January 26, 2014
When Pallava rule started in Gundoor,Andhra Pradesh, there were no Chola Kingdom in S/India. Pallavas destroyed the Kalabras in S/India and ruled.
Pallavas used Prakrit at the start of their rule. Then they switched to Sanskrit. later Grantha.
Their inscriptions show the changes. They belong to Kshatriya caste of NANTHI/Bhardwaja Gothra. They first used the LION flag. Later to the couchant BULL.
Sri Lanka’s Lion Flag must be originated from Pallava Rulers. Sri Lankan kings always went to Pallavas for help and marriages. Even the Mahanama came from the Pallava capital of Kanchipuram.
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Javi / January 26, 2014
The major problem with the begging bowl nation called Lanka is that they boast about other people’s cultures languages and Grottoes as if it is their own. Therefore whatever they write and however eloquent they may be they always smell to high heavens.
The Dravidian languages of South India had a history independent of Sanskrit. The major Dravidian languages are Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada and Tulu. Though Malayalam and Telugu are Dravidian in origin, over eighty percent of their lexicon is borrowed from Sanskrit. The Telugu script can reproduce the full range of Sanskrit phonetics without losing any of the text’s originality, whereas the Malayalam script includes graphemes capable of representing all the sounds of Sanskrit and all Dravidian languages. The Kannada language has lesser Sanskrit and Prakrit influence and the Tamil language the least.
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M.Sivananthan / January 26, 2014
Tamil is the least developed language among South Indian languages.
If you have any chance read Dr.R.V Sethupillai’s ALAIYUM, KADALUM. THEN you know how Hamilton BRIDGE became BARBER’S BRIDGE in Madras.
Old Kannada is known as Hela Kannada. Sinhala also known as Hela Bashava.
Hela (ELU in Tamil)is the parent language of all S/Indian languages including Sinhala.
Prakrit and Sanskrit have not much difference.
Sanskrit MITHRA is Prakrit MITHA.
Puthra=Putha
Varma=Vamma
Sumithra =Sumitha
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Palmsquirrell / January 27, 2014
” Tamil is the least developed language among South Indian languages.”
Pray tell how you came up with nonsensical conclusion.
Tamil is the Dravidian language with the least Sanskritic influence. When Indologists try to decipher the Indus Valley script, they use Tamil as the Dravidian language to compare to. They don’t use Telegu, Malayalam, Kannada or any other Dravidian language, for the simple reason that Tamil has resisted foreign influence the best.
The oldest attested Dravidian language is Tamil
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manisekaran / January 27, 2014
Ignore this stupid called Sivanandan, when Tamil itself already acknowledged as Indus valley people language, here comes his stupid claim. May be he is sallivating a war of lingustic in India
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Naide Appu / January 28, 2014
TAMILS HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY ARE THE KUMARAKANDA PEOPLE OR INDUS PEOPLE.
EVERYONE BETWEEN TAMIL NADU AND THE INDUS VALLEY ALSO HAVE THAT CLAIM, INCLUDING THE SINHALAYAS WHO’S ORIGINAL HOMELAND WAS CLOSE BY; LATA, KAMBOJA, VENGA…..ALSO THROUGH DAMEDA (DRAVIDA; VADUGA AND TAMIL).
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
hello Indian fool!
Tamil nadu always don’t encourage Tamil medium education. Why?
Why are you all prefer to go to a “Kanvend”(Convent) instead of a Tamil school?
Can you show any evidence for the claims of Indus valley and Tamil?
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manisekaran / January 29, 2014
Muttal sivanandan,
Here is just one example
http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/103/10/1220.pdf
If you wnat I can give you a list of such research but this itself good.
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M.Sivananthan / January 30, 2014
They think it may be Dravidian seals but not a single seal is translated even today!
No such Tamil issue there!
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
A language must represent the sounds with letters. If no such things in a language, it is always an un developed language.
Indus valley inscriptions are not de-ciphered so far. If any thing available show them.
Language is for communication. If it don’t have suitable letters to represent the sounds, that language is useless for any purpose.
That is why Tamil is now a Cinema language only.
Tamil Nadu and Tamils don’t like to study in Tamil because of the inadequacy of the Tamil Language.
How can you write “GAHA” in Tamil? Kaka… hahaha
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
Why do you come in a Tamil name? :/ and if you are a Sinhalese refer yourself unlucky. I would have hung myself if I was born a Sinhalese. Im proud to be a Tamil. Sinhala is a [Edited out]
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
Maha Muttaal!
You have no guts to come in your so called Tamil name because you don’t have a Tamil name.
First clean your ass then bark!
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Maveeran / January 30, 2014
Douglass da sunniya pudichu thongura kurangu nee. Why don’t you come up in your original Sinhala name? I’d love to beat the crap outta people like you. It gives me adrenaline rush.
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dtinformer / February 10, 2014
[Edited out]
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M.Sivananthan / January 26, 2014
Old Kannada is known as HELA Kannada. But Sinhala letters are very much closer to Malayalam(Kerala)than Telugu.
S/India and Sri Lanka used the Hela before the North Indian languages arrived to mix with HELA.
Sinhala language has many unique words which are not available in any North Indian languages. Example: POL(Coconut).
Hela branched out as Sinhala,Tamil,Malayalam,Kannada,Thulu,and Telugu.
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Burning_Issue / January 26, 2014
Wow
“Hela branched out as Sinhala,Tamil,Malayalam,Kannada,Thulu,and Telugu.”
This new information should be sent to the relevant scholars for further analysis!
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manisekaran / January 27, 2014
The truth Old driavidan langauge branched into Tamil to Tulu then telugu then Kannada and with more sanskrit infulence into Malayalam.
This Sinhala is nothing but Tamil plus telugu plus kannada plus malayalam plus oriya and bengali( again from Prakirt and Brahmi root)
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Prasad / January 27, 2014
In 3rd Century BC, Asoka sent his missionary monk Mahinda who introduced Buddhism, Pali/Magadhi prakrit and Asokan Brahmi to the island. All the early inscriptions found were written in Asokan Brahmi which was introduced along with Buddhism. As explained in Mahavansa, Arahant Mahinda preached Dhamma in Deepa Bhaasa, the native tongue of the inhabitants.
The million dollar question is, the Mahavansa author who wrote the so called ‘Sinhala’ history says in his most celebrated Pali chronicle that the Arahant Mahinda preached Dhamma to the inhabitants of the island in Deepa Bhaasa. Why not Sinhala Bhaasa???
Darshanie Ratnawalli says Sinhala Bhaasa existed in the island several centuries earlier than 3rd century BC. Then why didn’t Ven. Mahanama thero say Arahant Mahinda preached Dhamma to the inhabitants of the island in Sinhala Bhaasa???
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GamaRaala / January 27, 2014
May be Deepa Bhaasa evolved into Hela Bhaasa and then Sinhala Bhaasa.
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Native Vedda / January 28, 2014
GamaRaala
“May be Deepa Bhaasa evolved into Hela Bhaasa and then Sinhala Bhaasa.”
And Sinhala Bhaasa is the mother of Deutsch, an Aryan language.
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
Deepa Bahsava was Hela which is the parent of Tamil and Sinhala!
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JimSofty / January 26, 2014
Language is dynamic and is evolving every day when it is being used.
So, why it should be seen through a dark glass ?
What was the contribution of ELU in present Sinhala ?
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Vibhushana / January 26, 2014
The evolution of the Brahami script closely align with the global east -> west migration. The Brahmi is the base for almost all scripts from east to west.
After the mass migration people settle in geographic pockets. The script then goes in different directions. The evolution of Brahmi in relation to the Indian sub-continent is as follows.
http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/brah11.gif
Until 3rd CE the entire South Indian subcontinent including the island had a single script. Everyone in south India including Ceylon were the same. After 3rd CE the script in the island begins to evolve in a different direction. This is possibly because land bridge closed after 3CE.
The Telugu/Kananda and Tamil/Malayanam branches after 6th CE. Until after 12 CE Tamil and Malayanam scripts were the same. Its only after 12CE Tamil and Malayanam takes unique characteristics. This suggests the people to the east and west of Ghats mountain range had begun to evolve in different directions.
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M.Sivananthan / January 26, 2014
How then Sinhala and Malayalam have few “same” letters?
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Vibhushana / January 26, 2014
Well, to be honest I don’t know.
Perhaps Ceylon offered a scholarship to Malayalee linguists to come and learn. Anything is possible isn’t it really?
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Javi / January 27, 2014
Like Bigshit Dickshit Cowshit the one meter chai jam boy to follow in the line of Menon Priest to foreign office or else unacceptable – pandit Nehru policy.
That bootlegger,s 4 storied home at Pritvi nagar greater kailash of 89 is like him as per DDA while a simple sweet king from Bengal at the top of the road plays Mr Clean with a 6 story.
Have fun spanish style.
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
You wish lol. Viboosana why would anyone want to get scholarship and come Ceylon to learn a crappy Sinhala language.?
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Fathima Fukushima / January 26, 2014
Why don’t Tamils in SL have their OWN language instead of the language of Tamil Nadu?
Doesn’t that prove they are just Tamil Nadu illegals?
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Palmsquirrell / January 26, 2014
Since Sinhala is an Indo-Aryan language, they aren’t native to Lanka, or even to the SubContinent.
The reality is Sinhalese genotypic origins are native SubCon while their linguistic origins are from the Eurassian steppes, from an area spanning W.Kazakstan to Southern Russia and Ukraine.
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Fathima Fukushima / January 26, 2014
Dravidians are the non natives here.
In India 70% are Indo Aryan language speakers.
In Maldives 100% Indo Aryan speakers.
There is NO Dravidian majority country in South Asia!!
Indo Aryan languages are the NORM in South Asia.
Dravidian the exception.
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Vibhushana / January 26, 2014
Aryan/Dravidian division is superficial. The linguist Fr Robert Caldwell coined “Dravidian” identity out of thin air. Either thin air or derived from Mahamasa “Damila” which he used for the study.
The term “Arya” is not a racial group either. Persian influence in North Indian makes them look off-colour and look different from South Indians. Arya is an honorary title given to people across the Indian continent i.e. “Arya Chakravarti”.
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GamaRaala / January 26, 2014
If you check the DNA, more than 75% of the people of Jaffna who speak Tamil today are originally Sinhalese.
How the cultural change took place is something that needs to be researched.
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Native Vedda / January 27, 2014
GamaRaala
If you check the DNA, more than 75% of the people of this island who speak Sinhala today are originally Tamilnadu Tamils.
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Javi / January 28, 2014
Hey Smart Alec, don’t push that knowledge that far singing love is in the air.
Now that is a bitter pill to digest- lands have contours (see the deccan pleatu and behind it is the hill and north india(deccan:its where IAF takes off for freedom fights; you could call them seals) and the slave trade did bring in irrationality too. Once the S.trade was stopped there was some system of inviting labour and of course there was a lot of trade that went on private invoices and also had stowaways.
The first Chinese to arrive in the UK and stay was a seamen and finally the British had to amend laws to give citizenship to the first chinese/asian.
Don’t forget the Pallavas(bandits from bihar) intermixed the whole south for safety. Marathas were only stopping at port of call the portugese and british from the west and also stopping the islamic invaders and persian. But who stopped the Dutch entry from the east?? RSVP
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Palmsquirrell / January 27, 2014
How did you come to this conclusion? Sinhalese and Tamils are very similar in genotype because both are of indegenous Indian SubCotinent stock. Dravidians and Munda speakers adopted proto Sinhala and Sinhala.
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Spring Koha / January 27, 2014
Spot on! As one foreigner said to me ‘all you pherkers look the same’. The smarter ones learn a bit of English and aspire to a nice job with Sams Chicken Takeaway in North London. Come back once every two years and talk like suddhas….’api yanta yanerwa’
Aiyoooooooo!
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Javi / January 28, 2014
Spring,
Let’s have some fun; A driver from Kegalle working at Colombo was asked to drive to Dr Pauls surgery at Gregory’s Road. The passenger lady got in and asked the driver if he knows where to go. He replied Ow, Dr Hole in Giri Giri Road. This is like the Sporting Sams who read the race paper without knowing English at all but hey they knew the pedigree of horse and jockey. It is not different in the villages of the north that run the corner shops in Europe (like parrots they just pick the accent called Henry Pooie by the Chinese)
Technical writers or computer programmers are available 2 for a dime in the west. Read the English specs of Chinese goods you are going to love it.
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
Putha its the other way round. Almost all the Sinhalese in Srilanka have similar DNA’s to the Indians. Sinhalese came from the bottom. Sinhalese came from a language known as hela which was the language of the lowest caste people given by the Brahmins. These hela people used broken languages together with Sanskrit to create the hela Language. By time these low caste Hela came to be known as Sinhelase.
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Dawn Dale / January 28, 2014
[Edited out]
/
Javi / January 28, 2014
GamaRaala
Yes, but none became buddhist because of sinhala mahanama buddhist racism??
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Palmsquirrell / January 27, 2014
It isn’t superficial as the lingustic families are very different and separate from each other. The phenotype of peoples are also different, with their being a cline of dark skin softer features as one goes south.
Aryan was a term that came with Indo-Iranian colonisers and invaders, which is why Cyrus who was Persian claimed to be Aryan.
The people of the SubContinent are mostly of pre Aryan stock . Speaking from a racial standpoint, India,Bangladesh , Sri Lanka and Maldives can all said to be of majority Dravidian and Munda origin, even if the majority don’t speak Dravidian or Munda. It would be analogus to how Amerindian admixture is dominant in Mexico even though most Mexicans speah Spanish as their 1st language.
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Javi / January 27, 2014
“Aryan” is where the Iranian lives nothing more but Persia means Mullas Khyber Pass.
and the clean toilet mad great fascist Zen Japanese your favorite alms giver feels “Bodhidarma”- Zen Mahayana came from Persia Mullas Khyber Pass.
Jokes aside check it out.
The Japs are still digging at Lumbini because Kenzo Tange gave the wink to planted tree not crow shit one. They are looking for Gautamas mum like I for my first childhood toy from grandpa- the sleek smiling Gautama with a twinkle in its eye- all from hibiscus.Therefore I have my insignia at the donated eye hospital Lumbini watching like Tin Tin and his little toy.
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Fathima Fukushima / January 26, 2014
I thought Sinhala is a Dravidian language until I saw the map.
No wonder there are many Aryan Hitlers among the Sinhalese.
e.g. BBS
Even Rajafucksa looks like Hitler.
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
Sinhalese wanted to be known as Aryans by eating and licking the arses of their white masters who came to invade Srilanka.
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shankar / January 26, 2014
read vibushana’s commnts above yours
“people to the east and west of Ghats mountain range had begun to evolve in different directions.”
Tamils in srilanka and tamils in tamilnadu are geographically close to each other and there fore language did not evolve differently,though if a person from tamilnadu goes to jaffna he will find it difficult to understand because the tamil in jaffna would have stayed the same as olden days while the tamil in tamilnadu would have evolved further.
Also due to northern part being conquered by the cholas in the 10th century the nagas there would have become tamils speaking the tamil language.Today so many asians have migrated to the west.Their descendents are all going to know english only.Does that mean that they have the same origins as the westerners there?Language is not a good way of tracing origins because i is just a means of communication only and when the environment changes people change their communication habits.
DNA is the best way to go to check the ethnic similarities or dissimilarities of people.It is iron clad scientific proof.Even geography is useless because people have been migrating since the time that human species evolved.Nobody stays in one place only,always moving searching for better life in lands they perceive as better for them.Also ethnic admixture will start to further muddle the waters.Today there are three main races caucasian,mongoloid and negroid and many ehnic groups from each of those.One day there will be a fourth major race which could be called a mixed race as it becomes larger and larger every century.Already in countries such as brazil the mullatos(mixed portuguese and africans/amerindians)are the largest.
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Palmsquirrell / January 26, 2014
Language is one of major aspects of culture and as such is good way of learning historical migrations and conquests. For instance we know Sinhalese have their origins in North India because their language is Indo-Aryan, and we know the Indo-Aryan languages ultimately originate in Eurassia because it is a branch of the Indo-European language family.
We can also tell by observing the phenotype of Sinhalese that the bulk of their ancestors are native to the SubContinent even while their language isn’t. So language is important but one has to look at the broader picture.
DNA is not the best way, it is a good tool but there are deficiences. Smaple size and calculations to determine the age of haplogroups are all controversial and contested. DNA studies have contradicted each other. Studies from many years ago have been superseded. DNA is still valuable in determining the frequency of haplogroups in a community and similarity between groups.
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Sowden Edward Asange / January 26, 2014
The dialect is different from area to are, for example Tamil spoken in Jaffna is different to what is spoken in Batticaloa, Kandy, Kundasale, Nuwara-Eliya or even Colombo…
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Sowden Edward Asange / January 26, 2014
The dialect is different from area to area, for example Tamil spoken in Jaffna is different to what is spoken in Batticaloa, Kandy, Kundasale, Nuwara-Eliya or even Colombo…
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Fathima Fukushima / January 26, 2014
But it is same Tamil as written in Tamil Madu!
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Fathima Fukushima / January 26, 2014
Here is the Indo Aryan language map.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_languages
MOST people in SAARC region are Indo Aryan speakers.
ONLY South India is Dravidian speaking.
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Levi / January 26, 2014
The above comments Re Sinhala, Andara and Tamil bring to my memory of the Forties.
There was a slang used commonly by Sinhalese those days when any one utters un intelligible statements to be rebutted as follows.
” Ado Andara Demale katakaranatuwa Sutha Sinhalen kiyapan.” Also people were reprimanded in the reverse order too. I really do not know whether this is commonly used nowadays.
This above slang Statement and its origin i an sure will give an insight to the evolution of and their links.
Levi
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Sulaiman / January 26, 2014
Amazing language. Formed within 200 years. By 300 BC it was already old Sinhalese and not Prakrit! Clearly the founders of the language were as impressive as the modern day intellectuals in the Sinhala community.
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ken robert / January 26, 2014
Very good observation. Evolution of a written script follows a spoken vernacular by atleast two to three centuries according to scholars. So where is the literature in old sinhala ? Why the chronicle of mahavamsa was written pali/ prakrit? Not in old sinhala and hela or elu?
Dharshanie is painstakingly collecting evidence by studying the phonetics of a dead language and extrapolating it to sinhala. This is inaddition to the ill conceived intepration of brammi and relating it to sinhala.
I rest my case.
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Palmsquirrell / January 27, 2014
Darshanie should submit her research to the Journal of Indo-European Studies. It is a peer reviewed academic journal ; the contributing academics (predominantly Western) are well known in field of Sanskritology and Indology.
These academics also don’t put up with Nationalistic historical revisionism, like the kind perpetrated by Indian Hindu nationalists.
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JimSofty / January 27, 2014
Ken Roberts:
It is written in somewhere, that a very erudite monk from India came to Sri Lanka because buddhist-Cannon was in Sinhala and he wanted to translate it into Pali.
Then the Mahavihara chief -monk gave him test to understand how good this Indian Scholar -monk was. The result was the Visuddhimagga.
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rahul / January 26, 2014
i hope everyone commenting here knows that a language as spoken and used in day-to-day lives of its speakers is totally divorced from the script used to document it. Brahmi is the predominant script of south and south-east asia; even devanagri – used for north indian languages – is derived from Brahmi. And brahmi in turn is derived from the original script of the phoenicians, which is also the one and same progenitor for all the european scripts.
Just because 2 languages share the same script does not mean the languages share common ancestry or are mutually intelligible. And the script used by a language can and has been changed on the whims of those in power for policital gain. For example, persian now uses arabic nastaliq; turkish uses roman script and closer to home, dhivehi uses an arabic-derived script after having dumped the very sinhala-looking brahmi derived script they used to use, before the king forcibally converted maldivians to islam.
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ken robert / January 26, 2014
Rahul
Thanks for reminding the readers about the difference between a script from a spoken language. Your example of Maldives amply illustrates that point.
We have discussed inumerable times about origin of languages. Study of languages is very complex and should be left to the scholars. Language scholars whether it is Caldwell, Gair of the past or the current prof Karunathilake (late), prof suseenthararajah may have their own biases but I believe that we should get the scholars to comment than forming our own opinions.
What we need is a comprehensive comparative study of modern indian and srilankan languages by who have mastered both of so called dravidian and indo aryan language families. This need to come from a linguistic point of comparing phonology, grammar, words and written language.
Unfortunately Dharshanie is stuck with her archaic analysis connecting brammi script to pali/prakit and hence to sinhala. It is very clear south india and srilanka were influenced by number of scripts and languages. Earliest evidence for a written script in India is for sanskrit in the form of rigveda. However it is not quite clear whether dravidan languages preceded sanskrit because direct evidence is lacking.
Brammi intepretation has been quite controversial as each region claims that they have their own version of languages for example tamil and sinhala brammi. I believe that if one wants to take a balanced view then one need to combine what is available from the archeology, genetics and of course careful intepretation of chronicles of maha vamsa.
I thank dharshanie for the references.
Ken
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Native Vedda / January 26, 2014
ken robert
I appreciate your appreciation for Irathinavalli however one has to stop admiring and ask hard questions. One such question that come to one’s mind is what is her intention of writing garbage as expert review of all that had been written by the experts in their own field who had spent their life time, learning, reading, researching, writing, teaching , being reviewed by scathing peers, responding to peer review,………. ?
Can you spot the underlying pattern in her “BODY of WORK” that she has published in the past few months?
I will give you a clue, those whom she targets are scholars who retained some degree of intellectual honesty and to large extent remained racially neutral.
A Language Called Sinhala Through A Glass Darkly
On Ranjini Obeyesekere
January 26, 2014
Darshanie Ratnawalli
https://www.colombotelegraph.com
A historian who liked admiration too much
On Leslie (RALH) Gunawardana
By Darshanie Ratnawalli
Sunday, 28 April 2013 00:00
http://www.nation.lk/
History, historians and the dustbins of history
On K Indrapala
By Darshanie Ratnawalli
Sunday, 30 September 2012 00:00
http://www.nation.lk/
K. Indrapala; dancing in front of Sigiri Mirror Wall
By Darshanie Ratnawalli
Sunday, 16 September 2012
http://www.nation.lk/
A Historian In Focus: The Dark Side Of S Pathmanathan
September 8, 2013 |
By Darshanie Ratnawalli
https://www.colombotelegraph.com
No, You Can’t Have Jam Yet Professor Sitrampalam!
August 18, 2013
Darshanie Ratnawalli
https://www.colombotelegraph.com
The subjects this Irathinavalli deals with, requires knowledge and training in a range of disciplines.
She has little or no respect for all those scholars and she sees them as Sittram Jam, Dark Chocolate, Melting fallibility of butter, revised medieval pancake or dosa.
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Burning_Issue / January 26, 2014
Native,
One needs to examine her surname; it is a sinhalised version of Ratnavale, which means a spear made of diamond!
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Javi / January 28, 2014
“which means a spear made of diamond!”
No wonder she is behaving like a Turkish HUN and expecting everybody to see her as Sai.
Her boss is always right same as any other troll.
/
ken robert / January 26, 2014
Native
Admiration for ratnavalli
This not a dating web site.Therefore I will leave it to you to decide whether or not I have interest. but I do have a pecuniary interest in linguistics. This, in addition to rather irritating writing style of dharshanie, certainly made me to comment.
I agree with you regarding her targets and her writings are most certainly a work of dark side.She is certainly becoming better than the sith load (aka star wars) Mr Silva you know who.
Warm regards
Ken
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Native Vedda / January 27, 2014
ken robert
“She is certainly becoming better than the sith load (aka star wars) Mr Silva you know who.”
Thanks I know who he is, perhaps he is from the old republic.
“This, in addition to rather irritating writing style of dharshanie, certainly made me to comment.”
I am completely in agreement with you.
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Javi / January 29, 2014
Ha ha, Rob says: “Therefore I will leave it to you to decide whether or not I have interest.But I do have a pecuniary ` interest` in linguistics”
______
Linguistics is the scientific study of language.
But Rob is not a linguist I suppose so and neither does he know Dutch.
Linguist is a person skilled in foreign languages.
Your statement Rob reminds me of the Persian/Opium and annexing Hong Kong.
I have met and interacted with many an Australian cultural traveller from the deserts of Rajasthan to the dry plains of Bihar and Lumbini. They knew and came to see and experience that there was written knowledge with evidence of the past not just having fun seeing Sadhus.
RSVP
/
Roshan de Mel / January 26, 2014
What a joke…
To describe Prof. Sittampalam as a “scholar who retained some degree of intellectual honesty and to a large extent remained racially neutral” is a perverse corruption of the term “racially neutral”..
Prof. Sittampalam is a parochial Sri Lankan historian, whose recent/past writings are contaminated with the intentions of a man with very strong Tamil nationalistic tendencies. Being a bog standard historian, he is neither a linguistic nor an epigraphist specialist, but has yet commented extensively in these areas. It’s a joke..
Perhaps the amateur historians that regularly comment in this public forum, and have found a bizarre need to attack the findings of the James Gair and K R Norman, need to be reminded of the pedigree of the specialists Darshanie has cited in her article:
James W. Gair ……
STUDIES IN SOUTH ASIAN LINGUISTICS: Sinhala and Other South Asian Languages; James W. Gair, Cornell University; Selected and Edited by Barbara C. Lust
This volume collects twenty-nine published and unpublished papers by the linguist James Gair, considered the foremost western scholar of the Sri Lankan languages Sinhala and Jaffna Tamil. Ranging over thirty years, his work also considers issues in a variety of Indian languages, including Hindi, Marathi, Tamil, Malayalam, and Bengali. The collection reflects the wide range of Gair’s interests, from morpho-syntactic questions to questions regarding historical and areal linguistics, especially language contact and diglossia, and extending to language acquisition. By collecting these papers and making them newly accessible, this volume will provide an important resource not only for scholars of these languages but for linguists interested in the theoretical issues Gair explores.
K R Norman ……
Is a leading scholar of Middle Indo-Aryan or Prakrit, particularly of Pali. He studied classics at Cambridge University, and spent most of his career teaching Prakrit at Cambridge University. He is regularly described by his peers as one of the “greatest Pali scholars of our time”.
Both men are giants in their respective fields.
Which begs the question – why are they being attacked in this public forum?
Simple, because both men unequivocally claim that the Sinhala language is a unique indo-Aryan isolate, which has maintained its distinctiveness over 2,300+ years whilst being surrounded by a sea of Dravidian languages/influences… The Sinhala language is unique in that respect…
And for those that pull up the DNA argument to negate the distinctiveness of the Sinhala language, may i suggest reading:
1…Classical to Molecular Polymorhisms: Population Genetic Studies from the Indian Sub-Continent
2…Genetic variation in Sri Lanka
By S.S. Papiha & S.S. Mastana
Enjoy the reads..
Cheerio fellow forumites…
/
Native Vedda / January 27, 2014
Roshan de Mel
Could you sight Prof. Sittampalam’s writing that you find offensively parochial,perhaps a comic strip.
“And for those that pull up the DNA argument to negate the distinctiveness of the Sinhala language, may i suggest reading:”
What is your point if there is one?
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Navin / January 27, 2014
Could you please run this by our resident expert in all things history Native Veddha, D.Sc.(Oxbridge)?
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ken robert / January 27, 2014
Roshan De Mel
Please read the reference provided by Dharshanie
Prof Gair clearly says in his introduction that he was not an expert in Tamil. Furthermore he notes that the essay on jaffna tamil was written after discussion with Prof Suseenthararajah, however he takes responsibility for any omissions and commissions.
He also notes Jaffna tamil is difficult to master because of unusual coining of pronouns to verbs. Interersting read!
Kind regards
Ken
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shankar / January 27, 2014
“And for those that pull up the DNA argument to negate the distinctiveness of the Sinhala language,”
DNA arguments are not meant to reduce the distinctiveness of the language as you claim,but to prove that language does not prove anything ethnicity wise.language is just a means of communication and anyone can learn it just change their names a bit and hey presto they can become sinhalese,but the DNA will give them away.
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Ken Robert / January 29, 2014
“both men (Gair, Norman) unequivocally claim that the Sinhala language is a unique indo-Aryan isolate, which has maintained its distinctiveness over 2,300+ years whilst being surrounded by a sea of Dravidian languages/influences… The Sinhala language is unique in that respect”
Roshan
Firstly the classification that divides indian languages into Indo Aryan and Dravidian, is based on the Aryan invasion or Aryan migration theory (AIT, AMT). Proponents of this theory were Max Müller and Mortimer Wheeler. Pro AIT/AMT chose the similarities between Sanskrit and european languages to falsely create a supremacist view.
However It is now reasonably argued AMT/AIT is a myth based on following evidences.
1.Rig Veda ( which is approximately 3000 BC years old predating Harappan civilisation). Rig veda mentions about Saraswati river near Afghanistan, elephants of India establishing indigenous origin of indian languages. Saravasti river has been archaeologically identified and its antiquity has been validated.
2, There is no change in the genetic pool of indian population through out India to say that AMT took place in 1500 BC as per Max Muller.
How can this be argued against that Sinhala language which is considered an isolate of Indo european (I am avoiding indo aryan terminology) language survived in the midst of dravidian languages?
The answer I like to think is that all indian languages originated in INDIA from a mixture of Ancient Rig vedic sanskrit( not classical (devanagari)sanskrit which is after christ, AD), Indian Prakrits and dravidian and possibly from Austro asiatic language families. (Austro asiatic language is considered the oldest Indian language)
Western scholars such as Prof Gair and Prof Norman did master the sanskrit and types of prakrits (written/ pure form is Pali) two of the most ancient Indian languages. No one is questioning their achievements. However I believe they may have a vested interest by neglecting Dravidian languages.
Furthermore presence of so called a Indo european language of isolated in midst of Dravidian languages is wrong because as commentators above clearly pointed out Dravidian languages such as telungu could reproduce most of sanskrit verses indicating the so called dravidian language of Telugu has Indo european mixture. I have heard indian brahmins admiring the pronunciation and smooth reproduction of sanskrit words in sinhala. lastly classification of evolution prakrit–> old sinhala–> hela–> classical sinhala–> modern sinhala is very arbitrary. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that Sinhala is an Indo Aryan isolate among Dravidian languages is also a myth based debunked AMT and Likely common (internal) origin of Indian languages.
In conclusion, study of Linguistic Paleontology should be corroborated with equal emphasis on genetics and archeological evidence, I find this disconcerting because connecting inappropriate evidence such as brahmi texts for support for evolution of Sinhala is morally wrong until we fully decipher brahmi. I also believe that Pali should be given classical language status in India.
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Sengodan. M / January 27, 2014
Yes, you are right Native! An idiot is trying to pose off as a scholar!
Sengodan. M
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Native Vedda / January 27, 2014
Sengodan. M
“Yes, you are right Native! An idiot is trying to pose off as a scholar!”
She has a vibrant fan club, I suspect all of them are dirty old perverts.
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Joseph Pillai / January 26, 2014
Darshanie
“…..and the ‘creators were the pre-Buddhist teeth, palettes and the tongues of the island population.”
Should be ‘palates’, not ‘palettes’. Even then it is a rather contrived imagery. Typical of your writing style.
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M.Sivananthan / January 26, 2014
Who will explain the following?
കര്മ
කර්ම
கர்ம
බිත්ති
ബിത്തി
சுவர்
ස්වර්ණ මාලි
സ്വര്ണ മാലി
ஸ்வர்ண மாலி
சங்க்ராந்தி
സംക്രാന്തി
සංක්රාන්ති
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
What about it Jackass?
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
Jackass is your father, I hope!
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Javi / January 28, 2014
“Who will explain the following?”
______
Script is vanishing. Std.Chinese is an example.
▂▂
▌ |
▌ ☻ M.Sivananthan has been hung for War Crimes
▌ /▌\ Do not let him go unremembered.Fight against the Karuna/Douglas
▌ / \ Copy and paste this message to continue the fight.
▌
█████████████
/
M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
Donkey!
If you don’t know anything or cannot understand anything, go and clean the toilets for Whites.
Or do some Kothu Rotti business or credit card frauds.
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shankar / January 28, 2014
“Donkey!”
javi,siva wants to know whether you are tamil to enroll you to our TDC(Tamil Donkey Club).Do you have limited intelligence?
PS.we are a democracy and siva can’t make unilateral decisions here.
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Fathima Fukushima / January 27, 2014
Tamils in SL speak the same language found in Tamil Nadu!
That means they are DISPLACED Tamil Nadu people!
Resettle them in their ORIGINAL places (Tamil Nadu).
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Sengodan. M / January 27, 2014
Actually, what is irking Dharshanie to write all this rubbish? Is it the fact that Tamil is well recognised as a classical language whereas Sinhala is not. I can suggest a short cut to solve this problem. Dharshanie can rally round the JHU, RB, BBS et al and pressure Mahinda to declare Sinhala as a classical language. Problem solved!
Incidentally you can note that all the Indian languages declared as classical languages are Dravidian languages except for Sanskrit which is a dead language!
Sengodan. M
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Maveeran / January 27, 2014
She’s [Edited out]
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RajasH / January 28, 2014
Sinhala language originated from Tamil Language
I am not sure why there is so much debate and writting about this obvious fact
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Javi / January 28, 2014
Don’t forget she is a canny b*tch with a sinhala/tamil surname which is venom.
It’s data for her future dissertation compiled for free by old farts.
______
/ Darshani\ \ Den Haag for aiding Genocide
| R.I.P | |
| ☻ | |
| /▌\ | |
| (( | |
█████████████████
/
M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
Idiot! Her name is neither Tamil nor Sinhala. I think you are a rotten case and have no idea about other languages!
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
I know the smuggling originated from Tamil.
EELAM is a word originated from HELA. Hela Diwa is Sri lanka.
All South Indian languages were born out of HELA (ELU in Tamil).
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M.Sivananthan / January 28, 2014
The LTTE Tamil donkeys know nothing about their own language. Tamils had a leader of Grade seven and their political commissar was a grade two saloon sweeper Thamil selvan. But they know smuggling and other frauds well.
So, these linguistic research is always a hard subject for them.
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Abimanasingham Sitthawatthai Uthayakumar / January 28, 2014
Dear Prof. Darshanie Ratnawalli!
Please answer the following questions with scientific evidence:
1) In what century the ‘Brahmi’ letters were invented?
2) Is there any similarity between ‘Brahmi’ letters and ‘Sinhala’letters?
3) In what century the “Sinhalese” who invented ‘Sinhala’ letters on the basis of basic sounds a human could produce wrote Grammar for the Sinhala language? Wrote lexicon for the Sinhala words?
4)In what century the very first Sinhala language inscription was written with Sinhala letters?
5) What do the 65 different symbols found marked in different combinations in the ‘Brahmi’ Inscription of Lanka severally and jointly symbolize?
6) Does ‘Thēravāda’ Buddhism accept symbolization and Symbolization of Buddha and Buddhism?
7) What do the symbols marked on Brhami Inscriptions, ancient coins, seals, flags of Duttagāmani and Kandy Kings etc. severally and jointly symbolize?
Unless you find out the correct answers to these questions, your study on history of Lanka and history of Buddhism in Lanka will be unscientific!
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Javi / January 28, 2014
Good one but you missed the Eight (atta prikana; which you are keeping? I hope not because I got the orange head gear)
It’s beyond her capacity even in this generation!!
Like Asoka the Mad who did not know when to run/retire because he was not conceived in honesty. On the other hand Chandragupta Maurya the Great who frightened Alexander the Great by just the sight of his forces might and created the largest empire there decided to retire became a Jain and died peacefully starving his body (and the Buddha copied that too)
I also bet my bottom dollar she wont have the common courtesy to even acknowledge your comment like her paymasters the Linda Senivaratna for BBS. ;)
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Dawn Dale / January 30, 2014
to all the T-birds of the forum – article is about Sinhala language and NOT about Tamil.. why are you so worked up to learn origin of Sinhala may be pre Buddhist era ? who cares about origin of tamil language or its links to Sinhala. Nobody is talking about it or care about it. as it is obvious both Sinhala and Tamil people(at least in this forum) don’t want any link with each other what-so-ever, ever.
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Native Vedda / January 30, 2014
Dawn Dale
“Nobody is talking about it or care about it. as it is obvious both Sinhala and Tamil people(at least in this forum) don’t want any link with each other what-so-ever, ever. “
Both can have their link back in Tamilnadu, once they are there for good.
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ken robert / January 30, 2014
That is the truth
Sinhalese and tamils share same roots in their genes language culture etc.
Most important task of srilankans is to shatter the myth of mahavmsa, aryan legacy and to control radical elements in buddhism.
Ken
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dtinformer / February 10, 2014
these diasporas who funded those LTTE and other organization to keep their own tamils down got nothing to do with their money. so they talk too much rubbish. They did not care or no they want those poor tamils have better life. similar to those some blacks in US like president, Jackson, sharpton wants those stupid uneducated blacks to be their slaves. so they give some welfare to keep them down. this is same with uppaty tamils who does not want poor tamils prosper. may you all go to h.ll.
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