22 April, 2019

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In Pursuit Ravana’s Language & His Social Order 

By Ayathuray Rajasingam

Ayathuray Rajasingam

This is a very complicated issue. The facts presented here are for readers to ascertain to clear the doubts about Ravana’s language and his social status. Though Ravana was a Hindu, there is a general impression among the Sinhala people that they were from Ravana’s descendants. However, the history of Buddhism in Sri Lanka began with the arrival of Mahinda when he met King Devampiyatissa preaching non-violence. Buddhism saw its introduction in Sri Lanka about 2,500 years back. Prior to this period there were some clans namely the Nagas, the Yakkas, the Rakshas and probably Devas (rulers) who have inhabited Sri Lanka. There was no caste system but their divisions attributed to their profession. The Nagas were worshippers of serpents while the Yakkas were worshippers of demons. As such it is difficult to ascertain their religion. Ramayana epic points out that though Ravana was a mythical king and a Shiva devotee, his mother had a thorough knowledge of the culture of activities involving demons. There are other views that the Sinhala race originated with the arrival of Prince Vijaya and his 700 men, when his boat was drifted from Orissa to a place called Mantai in the upper North-west of Sri Lanka where he and his men met the queen of Sri Lanka (Queen Kuveni) and eventually married her. Queen Kuveni is alleged to be from the Yakka clan. There are similarities between the people of Orissa and the Sinhala people of Sri Lanka in respect of dress, food, customs, etc. 

When the name Ravana is mentioned it goes to the period when the great epic Ramayana was composed by sage Valmiki during the period of the Indus Valley Civilization. Ravana was a great devotee of Lord Shiva. During that period Shaivaism was in existence in the Kashmir region and in Gujarat where Lord Shive was worshipped. In fact, Kashmir was a Hindu kingdom when India was referred to Bharatham. However, the most ancient Hindu scripture Rig Veda mentions of Rudra instead of Shiva. This was an incident about 7,000 to 9,000 years ago during which period there were land masses in place of some straits throughout the world. Accordingly, the strait between Rameshwaram in South India and Talaimannar in Sri Lanka is a distance of about 21 miles and the depth is about 200 feet. This should compared with the Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska, the distance of which is about 18 miles and the depth is about 180 feet. This was the situation about 9,000 years back. During this period, the land mass in place of the Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska as well as that of the strait between Talaimannar and Rameswaram (Thanuskodi) which with the passage of time would have submerged in sea because of a deluge. It also said that a huge land mass known as the lost continent of Lemuria or Kumari Kanda or ‘Kadal Konda Thennadu’ could have submerged in sea, probably at the same period. The lost continent of Lemuria stretches from Eastern Africa to Indonesia within which Sri Lanka could be a part of it. Moreover, Sri Lanka is known as ‘Siva Poomi’ in Tamil i.e. the land of Lord Shiva. There were five Eswarams (temples for Lord Shiva) in Sri Lanka But today only four Easwarams (Thirukeswaram, Munneswaram, Koneswaram, Naguleswaram) are seen but the fifth Easwaram known as Thondeeswaram in the South Sri Lanka was submerged in sea. It is said that Ravana visited all these four Easwarams as per Ramayana. 

The period of the Indus Valley Civilization saw the a deep study of Hinduism through its ancient scriptures like the Vedas  which demonstrated that the structure of society was classified as Four Orders of Human Beings known as Varnas, namely, Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas and Sudras, all of which were based on Gunas. The composition of Ramayana during the Indus Valley Civilization focussed on Rama’s good deeds and Ravana’s evil actions having taken into account of Varna system. The Vedas were timeless and never mentioned of caste discrimination, but spoke of Varna system. Varna systems are God-created while castes are man-made. Varnas are based on Gunas (qualities) whereas castes can be amended to suit the changing needs of society. Varnas were never constituted by birth. Since Hinduism maintains that a person is at liberty to engage in activities that he is capable of, he is assigned or allowed to do that job according to his skill. This has nothing to do with caste.  It is very unfortunate that vested interests have propagated that caste is by birth because of their spiritual monopoly. It is these vested interests who created and developed the ideas of inferiority and superiority among the people, which paved way for discrimination between various groups of occupations. This is how the the Varna system turned into a caste system. This is a misconception. Just because one child is selfish and mischievous, it does not mean that the mother should be blamed. Likewise just because a few brahmins had interpolated some misconceptions into the Hindu laws with the view to consolidate their prestigious position, it does not mean Hinduism is flawed. Its liberality of accommodating everyone within its fold is what matters. Even I was ashamed of my ignorance, when the oppressed class of people were prevented from entering in our temple by other people. The Hindu Missions with broad outlook should come forward to reconstitute the caste system into Varna system in keeping with the teachings of the Vedanta gradually and restore Hinduism to its past glory. 

It is also said that Ravana was a Brahmin in terms of spiritual matters but his method of treating his subjects was of much concern because of his egoism 

There is a probability that four Varnas would have prevailed in Sri Lanka too  during the period of the Indus Valley Civilization, given the fact there was a mass land between Talaimannar and Rameswaram or the strait would have been shallow. The Varna system prevailed in each and every clan of every State in India including Sri Lanka. One ponders whether Ravana was living during the existence of the lost continent of Lemuria or Kumari Kandam.

The usage of Tamil or Sanskrit by the priests at these Shiva temples implied that Ravana may have been fluent both in Tamil and Sanskrit, though Ramayana was composed in Sankrit. Upon a consideration of Ravana’s association with the sages especially with sage Agasthiyar in addition to his being a musician. 

Ravana’s influence saw its influence even in Indonesia. Indonesian currency still bears the image of Lord Ganesha and Ravana has been worshipping Lord Ganesha. In some villages of Indonesia, Ramayana is played as drama. As such, it is difficult to ascertain what happened in Sri Lanka prior to the introduction of Buddhism in Sri Lanka as well as it is difficult to ascertain the language in force as well as the language spoken by the Nagas and the Yakkas. However, Buddhism firmly stood its ground in Sri Lanka as well as in Burma, Thailand, Japan, Tibet, China, etc. In Sri Lanka though Buddhists follow Buddhism, they also worship Maha Ganapathy, Muruga and Pathini, and Vishnu, some of which were worshipped by Ravana. Likewise in India though Ramayana was composed in many languages, generally the names of people are almost similar and common in every State throughout India and in Sri Lanka. 

Moreover, there are places in Sri Lanka with names like Sita Eliya, Ravana Ela, etc after Ramayana. Moreover, there is a place called UNAWATTUNA just a few miles south of Galle. When Ravana lit the fire on Hanuman’s tail, a piece of fire had fallen at this place while flying and it was called UNAWATTUNA as the people called it a burnt soil.

Hinduism being a God-centred religion was the dominant religion while other Prophet-centred religions in India were also co-existing including Zoroasrtrinism in Iran.Though there were some enmities between Hindus and Jains which was seen after the invasion of Kalaprars in Tamil Nadu who ruled for about 300 years during which period, the concept of violence was witnessed.

With the passage of time. it is the foreign invasion that introduced the discrimination in the society as ‘haves’ and ‘not haves, which eventually overshadowed the ancient Hindu tradition of Varnas. In Tamilaham (as was used in those period) the invasion of Kalabrars introduced the concept of violence, as a result the Hindus were subject to untold hardships and endless harassment which laid foundation for the emergence of caste system. During this period, the forces within the Kalabra regime and the forces within the Pandyas regime mingled within themselves and engaged in agriculture and also  engaged in inter-marriages, which resulted into the birth of Vellala caste. The soldiers of the Pandyas who defected to the Kalabras, were afforded with titles as chieftains. There is an old saying that ‘Kallarum Maravarum mella mella vellalaranar’ indicating that the Kallars (cattle thieves) and Maravars (warriors) have gradually become the so-called Vellalars. Maravars and Kallars together with Agamudiyar were all originated from Kalabras who are all warriors. This ruthless fighting qualities were found in the blood of Mudiras. Kallars, Maravars, and Agamudaiyars. This is how the caste system crept into Tamilham. Such qualities were also found in Ravana as the Yakka clan too had such qualities, at a time there was a land mass between Talaimannar and Rameswaram. As such, whether Yakkas were the ancestors of Ravana and the language used by the Yakkas remain a controversial issue.

Rig Veda says ‘Let our hearts be in equality and unity’ (Rig Veda 10/191/4). It is clear that the philosophy of Veda revolves round the concept of fraternity (brotherhood) and equality. It means no one is superior. None is master and none is slave. All men have equal rights on earth. Everyone has the same mode of birth and death.

According to Hinduism God dwells in the hearts of every Soul. This is an indication that all have same equal rights to live with dignity and liberty. Therefore it is clear that Hinduism according to Veda is based on the doctrine of ‘live and let live’. Atharma Veda says (19/69/1) ‘You may live, And let me also live’.

Moreover, Manu who was the first law-giver says ‘Slavery is pain, Freedom is pleasure, In short, this is the definition of pain and pleasure’. So Hinduism has denounced slavery and had not accepted slavery. Rig Veda goes on to say to crush whoever advocates slavery which is unknown to Hinduism. This is compounded by Rig Veda (10/133/5) which says ‘O resplendent Lord, Destroy the power of the man who wants to enslave us, whether he is alien or akin, no matter, if his strength is as vast as the sky; Break the ropes Fastened unto his bows’. If anyone attempts to encroach upon the liberty of others on account of their selfish motive and malicious mentality, they cannot be treated as brother in keeping with the philosophy of the Rig Veda that all are equal on earth. Later  Poetess Avaiyaar, who had Vedic knowledge, has criticized caste discrimination much later.History has shown that such selfishness and malicious mentality have crept into Hinduism with the invasion from outside India. Hinduism is God-created and gender equality was given priority. God-created are permanent, while man-made are temporary. Prophet-centred religions were not so liberal as God-centred religion. The Vedanta which is the backbone of Hinduism, do not give importance to caste discrimination. This is the very reason why Hinduism cannot be destroyed.

All these points out that there was no caste system in existence in Hinduism during the Vedic period. The Vedic books expressly mentions that Vedic knowledge should be given to all irrespective of the division of people. Moreover, Rig Veda gave due prominence to women saints or sages. Divine Truths were revealed to women sages who were accorded a high status in the vedic society.  Though Ravana acquired Vedic knowledge and with the spiritual qualities of a Brahmin while belonging to the Yakka clan, his arrogance coupled with his desire to have Rama’s wife was instrumental for being in the lower stratum of the community and eventually his destruction. 

Varna system should not be interpreted wrongly to suit the existing caste system. Whether it is the Ramayana or Maha Bharatha, or other Puranas, due importance was given to the concept of Brahman, which was preached by Lord Krishna to Arjuna. Upon a consideration of the above facts, it appears that violence and egoism gave birth to man-made division, which saw Ravana belonged to the group of ‘haves’. Hinduism never believed in conversion. There is no record that Ravana believed in conversion, but was arrogant that others should obey him, which attitude emerged for man-made division within the society. He appeared to be a Brahmin when he demonstrated his devotion and perseverance while performing penance. But he appeared to be a monster when he demonstrated his cruelty, thus lowering his qualities as against love, compassion and kindness. Hence it is difficult to ascertain the group of Varna to which Ravana belonged to. 

Violence in any form lays the foundation for the discrimination of society and also discourages gender inequality. Any religion that promotes violence cannot be considered as a God-centred religion. Here is a case where Ravana was driven by egoism which shattered the social structure and promoted slavery in spite of being a devotee of Lord Shiva. When the ‘haves’ are driven with violence which deviates from the path of dharma and leading to cruelty, they are considered as a people of the lower strata of the society, no matter be they priests or Brahmins by birth. How will the Sri Lankan politicians react on Ravana?

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Latest comments

  • 4
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    you should read charles allen’s book ‘coromandel’ who dealt with these subjects and .g.c. mendis book on the myths and legends in srilankas history ‘the problems of ceylon history’ to enlighten you on this subject

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      Ramayana is a fiction based on certain facts. It is a racist narrative to portray Aryans to be superior to Dravidians and Vaishnavites superior to Saivaites. Rama is portrayed as a avatar of Vishnu from Aryan descent while Ravana is portrayed as Dravidian and Saivite. Ramayana in a racist manner makes south Indians as monkeys and people in Sri Lanka as demons. Aryans claimed that when they came to India, Dravidians were uncivilised and they civilised the Dravidians. This has been shattered by the chance discovery of Indus Valley civilisation which brought out the ancient Dravidian civilisation that existed in India prior to the arrival of Aryans. Even the north Indian racist propaganda that Sanskrit is older than Tamil and that Tamil was derived from Sanskrit has been blown to pieces. So what is told in Ramayana has to be taken with a pinch. Archaeologically it has been proved that there was a Dravidian civilisation in Sri Lanka prior to the advent of Sinhala race and there is no doubt that the first religion practiced in Sri Lanka was Saivaism as evidenced by Veddhas worshipping Murugan, a God worshipped only by Tamils. With scientific technology advancing at a rapid rate, no one can distort the truth.

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        “book on the myths and legends in srilankas history” ………. “Ramayana epic”

        Mahindanaya legend/myth epic is in the making right now ………… how the great king Mahinda with the help of his multi talented brother Gotabaya singlehandedly vanquished the Tamils …………

        Shouldn’t one of you erudite gentlemen record a true non-ambiguous account for posterity ……………. so there wouldn’t be confusions/arguments ……….. 2500 years down the line?

        Or, are the confusions here already ……… about what we saw with our own eyes?

    • 2
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      ‘Rama’ and ‘Ravana’ are nothing but Indo-Aryan mythology. Domesticated winged dinosaurs were used by ancient Lankan king Ravana as virtual spy planes (launched from the huge cave at Ella) to fight off Rama’s army of gigantic dinosaur gorillas from south Indian invaders — which led to the whole Ramayana myth.

      In fact, Ravana or Ravanan has nothing to do with Sri Lanka. Some of my Indian friends were saying that the ancient Lanka mentioned in the Indo-Aryan mythology Ramayana was an island somewhere close to Andara Pradesh in India which is no more (submerged in the sea). According to Ramayana, Ravana was believed to be a strong devotee of Lord Siva. People in the island Thambapanni or Ceylon has adopted the name Lanka by believing wrongly that what is said in the Ramayana is their island.

  • 2
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    Ayathuray Rajasingam:

    So you are the one posting comments time to time? So the Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality are not new concepts?

  • 6
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    Thank you Mr Rajasingham for this article on history. Reference materials to support would have been useful.

    • 3
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      From where do you expect him to draw reference? He entertained you and you got enthralled. That’s it!

  • 6
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    Very informative and interesting to read. Thanks. You have cleared some of the doubts.

    • 5
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      Ravana was A Tamil king I believe. It is wrong to say that he kidnapped Sithai to rape her or have sexual intercourse with or without her consent. Lakshmanan was the cause of the problem. While he was with Rama and Sita in the forest, he needed a company of a woman. Accordingly he tried to molest Ravanas sister on her usual visit to the forest where LAKSMANAN was loitering. She resisted his move and and Laksmanan is supposed to have cut her nose and the nipples. The sister went back to Ravanan and related the happenings . Thus Ravana lost his temper, flew to the forest where Sita was and kidnapped her, as a matter of revenge. The rest is history coupled with myth. If not for the traitors in the Ravanas Kingdom Sithai would have been released and there wouldn’t have been a war.
      Ravana was a great warrior and he would not have been defeated if not for the traitors in his kingdom. This has been a continuous problem for the Tamils from then to now. Siva! Shiva! SAM/SUM.

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    Rawana/ Rawanan , never spocken-( Sanskrit), that time no Sanskrit, Mr, A, Rajasingam was wrong, in Rawanan Dynasty , there was ( Tamil and Sinhala words) spocken by ancient Nagar & Yakas/ Vethas, most Tamils think that -Sita lived in Ceylon, Rawana not a fool, he was in Ceylon, but he had taken Sita to Peru land / South America, in South America, ( Thai Pumi/ Puma Punku), Sita had lived South America, Rama came To Ceylon, and Hamuman burnt Ceylon, due to that time Mayan ( Mayan Rawana‘s uncle) Mayan and his Cilivization move toward Mexico, by — Kallam / Katumaran, ( Mayan Cilivization Spock -Tamil and Sinhala words,.

  • 7
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    Most of our Members of Parliament follow another epic character like Ravana namely KUMBAKARNA, EATING AND SLEEPING in Parliament!

  • 3
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    Thanks you for this interesting piece. Much of this, of course, cannot be verified with documented supporting evidence; yet it is interesting in understanding our culture.

    Obviously Tamizh was just another language like Sinhala, and was derived from something else that pre-dated them. And acquisition of language does not necessarily mean possession of the land.

    The ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrinism is similar to hindusism, and infact the old Persian language “Avestan” was used in identifying the connection between the Indo-Eauropean language family’s members. “Yazna” in avestan is “Yagna” is sanskrit and “geetha” mean song/praise song in both. Parsi is derived from Avestan.

    Sanskrit and avestan are in fact very similar and shows that the indo-European languages reached the sub-continent via Persia. The people who pre-dated this arrival probably spoke “deccan (derived from Dakshina – “south”- dravida – “southern” ) language of which Tamil is the oldest relative among those spoken today.

    In today’s Tamil many words are derived from sanskrit (a trait seen in sinhala as well). “Rajya –> Rasa –>arasu/a (in Tamil); Rajya –> ras traya (as in Maha rashtra) –> rata in sinhalese.

    Sinhala has many grammatical features of hindi and some from Tamil. This too is not unusual, given how long the 2 have intermingled and co-existed (without destroying the other) in Sri Lanka.

    The task for us is to take all this history (real and imagined) to strengthen the people, their self-esteem so that they will live in peace and work to prosper together – not at the expense of the other, but together with the other.

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      Ravana story is a myth. Largely to put down the Dravidian and other non Aryan population in India , calling them by all sorts of derogatory names like monkeys, demons and portraying them and Sivaism as evil and the Aryans and Vaishnavism as good and noble. The ancient population in the island would have definitely been Dravidians , ancient spill overs , from South India , when there was a land bridge. They spoke a simple semi Tamil dialect called Elu , that is very close to its Tamil mother. Old Sinhalese or Hela is derived from this Tamil dialect/ Elu + Prakirt = Hela or old Sinhalese that again was very close to its Tamil mother , compared to modern Sinhalese. Sinhalese grammar, syntax and lexicon is 100% derived from Tamil and it is Tamil vocabulary that contributed most to the Sinhalese language nothing to do with Hindi , which is a recently created artificial language by the Indian government based largely on the spoken dialect of Delhi called Khari Boli Hindi. Hindi is the least Indian of all Indian languages, with a large portion of its vocabulary derived from Turkish , Persian, Arabic and many other non Indian languages. It has also many Dravidian/Tamil derived words . Eg. to walk they say ” Chal” which is from the Tamil word ” Chelu” meaning to walk and go away. The Word for king ” Raja” is derived from the Tamil word ” Arasan” or commonly stated ” Rasa” Just like the word ” Sanskrit word ” Puja” is derived from the Tamil word
      ” Poosai” . Meaning offering flowers ( Poo meaning flower).

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      contd: Please do not compare Sinhalese to Tamils . The former a mongrel language that only came into existence around the 8-9TH century AD and has no rich literature or anything but now being boosted and put on a pedestal by all Sinhalese led governments since independence. The latter Tamil is the oldest living classical language and the oldest spoken literary language( there may have been other but they are dead and gone and definitely they were not literary) with a very rich history and literature. Noticed so called Sinhalese Buddhist Fascists , many largely descended from recently migrated low caste South Indian slave labour , now are very busy creating all sorts of stories, concocting history and trying to put the Tamil language of thier slave ancestors down .Both Sanskrit and Tamil are very old and rich languages , however contrary to popular belief , Tamil is older than Sanskrit . Even the current Indian Prime Minister Modi a Sanskrit die hard has admitted to this fact. Sanskrit may be the oldest known Indo European language but it is not older than Tamil.

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      Condt: Both Tamil and Sanskrit had a very close symbiotic relationship with each other and extensively borrowed words from each other, Tamil more so than Sanskrit and this is a fact.. Every word common to Tamil and Sanskrit are not from Sanskrit many are from Tamil. However unlike Tamil and other Dravidian languages that only borrowed words , which is no big deal , as all languages borrow words, Sanskrit borrowed the Dravidian( Tamil) grammar , syntax and lexicon . This is a big issue as one language borrowing another languages grammar, syntax and lexicon shows how much the other language has influenced it. This is what Tamil( Dravidian ) did to Sanskrit. This is why Indo Aryan is the only group amongst the Indo European languages that has the Dravidian retro flexes. This is the reason all Sanskrit derived Indo Aryan languages like Hindi , Bengali etc still follow the sentence and grammatical structure of the Dravidian ( Tamil) language. Just like Sinhalese. Understood. Little knowledge is dangerous. I know that Sinhalese Buddhist Fascists love to portray themselves as Aryans just like the Islamic Wahhabis here want to portray themselves as Arabs or other Western Asians . Both want to pathetically deny their actual largely Tamil Dravidian heritage.

      • 2
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        Siva Sankaran Sarma and the likes of him think that languages spread through air or something of that nature. According to these nut-cases the whole world spoke Tamil at one time. One comment from a Tamil (Nam Thamilarkal) in Youtube:
        “Tamilan only teaches eyptian about architect, civilization, agriculture and all. building graveyards and firing death bodies is originated the tradition for the tamilans . from lumuria our tamil ancestors travelled to egypt to teach them. ie pyramid = periya veedu . even inside the pyramid our tamil kings dead bodies are there.”
        The last bit of the above comment is one of the most comical claims by Tamils I have read. Even Devanampiyatissa being Tamil cannot match the above.
        If the Tamils see anything they want to make it Tamil. They came across English in the 19th century and have been trying to claim that even English is derived from Tamil. One Jaffna Tamil wrote a whole a book on the subject using the pseudonym Samuel Livingstone, published by the university of Jaffna. Please check it out if you can get a copy:
        Tamil Origin of the English Language: Letters of a Tamil Father to His Son, Volume 1, Issue 2
        by Samuel Livingstone

        The same man wrote another book about the Sinhalese and the Aryan theory. Anpu has already proudly given you the link to that book.

        • 6
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          Punchi Point with Punchi brains. Sinhalese everything Aryan in them but others do not most probably they do not have mirrors to see how unAryan they look but keep on croaking like a frog in the well about their Aryan origin.

          • 3
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            Looks like Siva Sankaran Sarma didn’t like Samuel Livingstone’s book. LMAO. Its not I who wrote it. I cannot understand a word of what you are trying to say. So, Siva Sankaran Sarma, without howling like a mad dog, just say how does an Aryan look like?

            SSS, its the Tamils who are so hung up on this Aryan – Dravidian issue. Its actually an Indian problem. Sinhalese are just Sinhalese. You cannot categorize the Sinhalese as Aryans or Dravidians.

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              Tamils are not obsessed with Aryans or Dravidians or skin colour . Tamils are the only people in the subcontinent who are proud of whom they are or what they are and do not claim to be anything else , as they have a rich language and ancient history and their language , culture and religion , enriched other languages , including the languages and cultures of SE Asia and the Tamil language gave birth to many other languages. It is the Sinhalese who have nothing but want to be great who are obsessed with being Aryan and claim an Aryan heritage when obviously they are not. Concocting history and stories making it official through their government run institutions. Yes you cannot categorise Sinhalese as Aryans or Dravidians but born liars and racists . You are a good example

        • 5
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          Punchi Point
          Punchi Brain
          Punchi Willi

          Don’t you know the First Ape spoke Tamil and practised Tamil Saivam?
          Don’t you also know the First Ape spoke Sinhala and practised Sinhala/Buddhism and discovered Zero?

          We also know Mahinda single handedly won the war
          We also know Gota single handedly won the war
          We also know Champika single handedly won the war
          We also know Somawansa single handedly won the war
          We also know Svandra Silva single handedly won the war
          We also know Kamal Gunaratne single handedly won the war
          We also know Sarath Fonseka single handedly won the war
          …..
          ….
          ….
          ….
          We also know Dutta Gamani single handedly burned down Jaffna Library
          We also know Cyril Mathew single handedly burned down Jaffna Library

          What’s your problem?

          • 3
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            There are stupid Sinhalese who have embarked to prove that Buddha was born in Sri Lanka and propagated Buddhism to India, contradicting existing historical records. Also they say that Balangoda man spoke Sinhala and is the ancestor of Sinhalese and not those 700 criminal kallathonies from Bengal.

            • 0
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              Sinhalese are most certainly not descendant from anybody from Bengal. Where does it say the ” 700 criminal kallathonies” came from Bengal. This is a colonial interpretation and construction of an ancient legend, which most probably is just a myth. Also it was the colonial government scholars that made king Pandu into a Pandian king from Madurai, and the 700 criminal kallathonies” marrying Tamil women from Madurai. There is no mention of king Pandu of southern Mathura being a Tamil in any chronicle of the Sinhalese. Vijaya is supposed to have come in the 6th century BC, but the Mahabharata which is many centuries prior to that, mentions the Sinhalese in several places.
              nbsp;
              About the idiotic claim made by some Sinhalese regarding Buddha being born in SriLanka – these Sinhalese and the stupid monks who are saying this nonsense have been thoroughly reprimanded by learned Mahatheras. But it is not an entirely a new thing and the oldest mention of Buddha being a Sinhalese comes from a Mahayana text called Saddharmapundarika composed before the 3rd century AD. In this text Gautama Buddha himself was born as a Sinhalese. The part (Karandavyuha) where Gautama Buddha is born as a Sinhalese is from 4th century AD. (Ref. article by Gnanth Obeyasekera, Journal of Buddhist ethics, Volume 10, 2003) All these stories are just myths, but for the psychologically imbalanced people myths becomes reality, and a whole lot of lies are said to make myths look like historical truths – like the 20th century claim by Tamil immigrants that they are indigenous to this island and to support that baseless claim even stupider myths like Lemuria/Kumari Kandam is dragged in where the Tamils are supposed to have had a civilization, which none other than NASA has proved!!

    • 5
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      Sinhalease Buddhist
      “The task for us is to take all this history (real and imagined) to strengthen the people, their self-esteem so that they will live in peace and work to prosper together – not at the expense of the other, but together with the other”
      Agree with you 100%

      Readers may find this book intersting
      “In these letters, Samuel Livingstone offers his insights on the place names and terms used in irrigation, and their Tamil origin.” https://www.sangam.org/2011/08/Aryan_Theory.php

    • 2
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      “Rajya –> Rasa –>arasu/a (in Tamil); Rajya –> ras traya (as in Maha rashtra) –> rata in sinhalese.”
      அறம்- Aram – justice is the base word for அரசு Arasu – Kingdom. Indus Valley didn’t have the latter days “Kingdom structure” at the start. They probably didn’t have kings either. They had only Siva Brahmin Justices or gurus. That why Tamils had philosophy of “Yathum Urre Yavarum Kelir”. (All are our lands, all are our relatives.)

    • 3
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      Sinhala 1500 years old. Bengali 1100 years old . Hindi 700 years old. Sinhala didn’t come from any of those languages.

  • 2
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    Tks for the article, very informative.

    • 4
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      Ad,

      “very informative” – How can it be “informative” when there is no information? Info are facts which are proved or are known to be true. Myth, folklore and folktale are not with reference or supporting evidence, so not information.

  • 2
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    Rudra was a minor god in the Vedic age when Shiva as an entity was non-existent, when the chief deities were Varuna and Indra. Many ancient cultures including the Greeks have these very same tales of love and war, they served a purpose before the scientific precision of this day and age.
    If Valmily’s tale is true, this could be the first invasion of SL by foreigners and Hanuman may be responsible for genocide. It is foolish and primitive to think that the Pandyan-Kalabra had become shudra Vellalars. This term derives from ‘velam’, meaning control of floods for food production, and the designation was already attributed in the ancient Tolkāppiyam and the attribute in ancient Sangam literature written in the same period as the Ramayana, predating the Kalabra invasion and the first Pandyan dynasty whose capital was the pearl fishery town of Korkai.
    Another question is which community identifies with Rama and Hanuman and which with Ravan ??

  • 2
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    I am confused. If Ravana was a mythical fictional character (say like Gulliver) created by Valmiki why write as if he was a real character ?
    Can someone enlighten me?
    Jayananda

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      Mate Jayanada it is like writing and talking about Vijayan. We possibly believed in epics and legends based on our long cultural development. Many sadly cannot differentiate between fiction and truth. This weakness has caused immense damage to all of us. We believe in magic, in huniya, in charm, in ghosts, sprits, horoscope, and so forth and that has made us real gullible.

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    Horrible inaccuracies.

    Ramayana might have happened just after the Aryan invasion of Indus valley. Indus Valley has not given clues that the people lived there was capable of prolonged wars. Ram might have been a middle part warier prince, like Alexander the great, had learned some war techniques from the invaded Aryan race. He came to Ceylon, won the war, married to Sita. He did not use horse because he didn’t know it. This made the pregnant princess Sita die on the way. The Midwifery tried to save her child played a game. So they produced to Ram another child as his child. When they were success in saving dead sita’s child, he came to know the truth. He did not rule the kingdom when he went back because he was depressed by the war and loss of his adorable wife. There was no Aswamedha Yaga because Ram did not know horses and his wife was not with him; both are needed to that Yaga.

    Siva(s) is/are Indus Valley Brahmin(s). Rudra is an Aryan General (, unlike Siva(s) he was one definite person), like Indira. Eventual confusion in stories mixed Siva(s) with Rudra. Siva, in the mythology, settled all war without taking bow and arrow. Rudra raped, massacred, looted the people and feasted with thief the plundered wealth. So in the North Siva is horrible god. In South Siva is a jogi.
    Rig Veda is a mixed work, born from Dravidic philosophy (Siva(s) propagated) but modified by eventual Aryan editors. Ramayana is written by couple of poets, party by part, in classical Sanskrit. It was written, long after (Probably 1500 years) the war took place (like Mahavamsa based on legends) .
    “Let our hearts be in equality and unity’ “ Dravidian Part of Rig Veda.
    “O resplendent Lord, Destroy the power of the man who wants to enslave us, “ Aryan Part of Rig Veda.

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      Mallaiyuran,
      I do not accept with your contention. First, this epic Ramayana was composed during period of the Indus Valley Civilization especially when there was a land mass between India and Sri Lanka. May be the Strait between Rameswaram and Talaimannar would have been very shallow to fill with rocks to make a path. The writer compares this with Bering Strait. The land mass would have existed about 9,000 years ago. This being the situation how did sage Valmiki knew about Sri Lanka.
      Second, Ravana being a Shiva devotee, he would have definitely chanted OM NAMASIVAYA. This mantra could have been in either Sanskrit or Tamil.
      Third, there was no caste system during the Vedic period. Even I can recollect Rama calling the Oarsman Kuhan as ‘friend’. Rama never looked at him as a labourer which means there was equality prevailing at that time. The writer also mentions that Vellala originated from Kallar (cattle thieves) which caste system came into being after about 5,000 years from the time the original Ramayana was composed. It is the Aryans who introduced man-made caster system. So it should have happened before the Aryans came.
      Even in Sri Lanka, the writer mentions of the names of places like Sita Eliya, Ravana Ela and Unawattune. How do you account for this?

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        Roy,
        You cannot hold word to word Ramayana is true; you have to filer with common sense.
        Why would a country name a town with their prisoner’s name, after all she was the cause of the destruction of kingdom? Tamils don’t want any Namal or Mahinda villages in their area; do they? Ramayana was written to tear off RavanaRaj people,in North India, at the height of Aryan Dravidian differences (Caste differences). Truth is, Sita was a famous princess in Ceylon so after her departure the people named the town.

        Ramayana is written in classical Sanskrit. Rig was not like. So writing of Ramayana is much latter than the birth of Sanskrit. Sanskrit never did know letters. Indus Valley people did know. Sanskrit is not there language.

        As per Ramayana, Ram sent Sita to jungle because low castes talked low of him taking back his wife who ran away with another man. So apparently Valmiki’s time caste system was there. You need to understand it was Valmiki who converted the Dravidian story as Aryan story and made black man Ram as White Aryan God. So, you need completely drop off all Aryan features out of Valmiki’s story before you can interpret it.

        Indus Valley was Siva Brahmins’ land. Pancha Iswarms came to Ceylon that time. Ravana was another Dravidic Hindu King. He was not demon! Never any unproportioned size bones were found in Ceylon. There is no evidence other than Mahavamsa copied the Ramayana on that part. Remember, Celanese always did know the correct version of Ramayana, unlike Valmiki. It is the Aryan part of the story naming him as demon. To reconcile Ravana’s original part in the Dravidic legend with his own epic version, Valmiki said Ravana’s mother was demon and father was Brahmin.

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      Mallung
      “Horrible inaccuracies.”– A sensible comment. (I will reword it as “Horrible and Inaccurate”.)
      But the rest of your comment is characteristically you.

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    Could have been amusing if it was written TiC– but it is not.
    *
    Ramayana is at best an artistic narrative of a simple story, based on a local historical event.
    The story has travelled far and wide and has been improvised with local myths added.
    The Tamil version itself deviates much from the source.
    There is no historical record for any of the Ramayana or Mahabharata characters.
    Many place names could have arrived after the text was established.
    *
    Lemuria is a long forgotten myth stirred up from time to time by Tamil nostalgia for lost glory.
    Science and sentiment do not mix: they will not even emulsify.

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      SJ,
      Lemuria was a 19th century idea to explain similarities between Indian and African fauna. It was long ago replaced by plate tectonics. But it is still a convenient peg to hang various myths like alleged advanced civilizations. Just as the great Anagarika found Aryanism handy.

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        OC
        Thanks
        After Robert Caldwell late in the 19th Century established that Tamil was an ancient language belonging to a family of languages distinct from that of Sanskrit, Tamil linguistic nationalism went crazy.
        Some went on to revive the ‘Continent of Kumari’ where the ancient Tamil Kingdom of the first two Sangams (of which no evidence is left if they ever existed). The Lemuria theory fitted well with this project, and with total disregard for geology, geography and archaeology people went on to link the ‘Continent of Kumari’ with Lemuria.
        *
        Anagarika adopted the Arya Sinhala myth based on Sinhala being an Indo-Aryan language. (Divehi, the lanuage of Male too is Indo Aryan.) The Prince Vijaya tale in Mahavansa also helped.
        He desperately needed the myth to distinguish the Sinhalese from the rest of the population.

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          ” The Lemuria theory fitted well with this project, and with total disregard for geology, geography and archaeology people went on to link the ‘Continent of Kumari’ with Lemuria”

          I have a hard time explaining this to my Tamil friends. Likewise, Rudra was indeed a minor entity in Rigveda as per my previous readings on this subject.

          There is a Kannada blogger who has written extensively on mythologies and false beliefs of Tamils.

          http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com
          over to you Ayyathurai

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            Ken Robert

            How are you?

            I am sure you are familiar with
            “The Lost Land of Lemuria Fabulous Geographies, Catastrophic Histories
            by Sumathi Ramaswamy (Author)”
            September 2004

            Review:
            During the nineteenth century, Lemuria was imagined as a land that once bridged India and Africa but disappeared into the ocean millennia ago, much like Atlantis. A sustained meditation on a lost place from a lost time, this elegantly written book is the first to explore Lemuria’s incarnations across cultures, from Victorian-era science to Euro-American occultism to colonial and postcolonial India. The Lost Land of Lemuria widens into a provocative exploration of the poetics and politics of loss to consider how this sentiment manifests itself in a fascination with vanished homelands, hidden civilizations, and forgotten peoples. More than a consideration of nostalgia, it shows how ideas once entertained but later discarded in the metropole can travel to the periphery—and can be appropriated by those seeking to construct a meaningful world within the disenchantment of modernity. Sumathi Ramaswamy ultimately reveals how loss itself has become a condition of modernity, compelling us to rethink the politics of imagination and creativity in our day
            goodreads.com/book/show/1011568.The_Lost_Land_of_Lemuria


            By the way the Tamils too like their Sinhala brethren suffer from identity crisis.

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            Little knowledge id dangerous , quoting a Kannada blogger is very stupid, everyone knows the Kannadigas like the Sinhalese are well known anti Tamils , this is why Tamil killer Rajapakse is now being entertained on their soil by Tamil traitors Hindu Jam and Choopiramania Swamy and feted by Kannada leaders. Kannadigas like the Sinhalese will never admit to the fact that their language is descended from old or Proto Tamil and will go out of their way to disprove this , with all sorts of outlandish theories. Hale Kannada or pure or old Kannada is almost Tamil , I suppose you never knew this fact. The word Karnataka is derived from two Tamil words Karu Nadu, meaning the land of black soil. Now just like the Sinhalese , the Kannadigas, Telugus and Malayalis are deliberately Sanskritising their language , just to prove a point that their language did not originate from old Tamil.. Idiots this is why their languages are called Dravidian languages , basically meaning languages that originate from Tamil or Proto Tamil. Just like the Sinhalese , the Kannadigas are very well known for their violence and pogroms against the Tamils . Get your facts correct.

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              RSSS

              First of all, we all are amateur historianz at best.
              I think it is really important to see other”s view point because there are few attested archeological records in comparison to innumerable legends and chronicles.

              I am warm to your concept’s of the origin of Tamil culture and it’s language, however I think blind faith in your facts and belief systems will not lead to a scientific inquiry.

              Native
              I wish I have the time to argue against Lemuria continent. Nowerdays, I am more into Norman Conquests and middle age history of Britain.

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              RSS you seems to be expert on all the languages now exits in south Indian region.As you claim Your tamil is the base for those all the languages. Please do us big favour. There are so many old cave writing exit in our country in various places with non-abrahamic letters. As you claim all the languages are derivatives of your Tamil language, I think you should be able to read those writings.It will be great help for our Archeological department. Some says some writings are more that 125,000 years old. Some pictures too are there. As expert as you claim you may be able to read those writings and explain meanings of them. Even the meaning of caves painting as well. Then you can claim you are the most able archeologist your god shiva ever produced for human being.

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    This is a futile attempt to whitewash the darker and primitive side of Hinduism. The author is bending over backwards to establish that Hinduism as a religion has no caste system.
    The fact is Hinduism is caste based. The belief in the authenticity of the Vedas and the belief in the varnashram dharma (class based on birth or caste) are basic and fundamental to Hinduism. Though there were Hindu reformers like Kabir, Rammohan Roy and Dayanand Saraswati, the caste and untouchability are still practised widely by Hindus. According to Purusha-Sukta of Rig Veda, Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra originated respectively from the mouth, hands, thighs and feet of the Purusha or the creator. This is a false statement. Varna-vyavastha is a man-made social institution and it has nothing to do with the alleged creator of this world. The system of varnashram dharma is upheld by popular Hindu scriptures like Ramayana, Mahabharata and Bhagavad-Gita. In Ramayana, for example, Ram kills Shambuka simply because he was performing tapasya (ascetic exercises) which he was not supposed to do as he was a Sutra by birth.

    Similarly, in Mahabharata, Dronacharya refuses to teach archery to Eklavya, because he was not a Kshatriya by birth. When Eklavya, treating Dronacharya as his notional guru, learns archery on his own, Dronar makes him cut his right thumb as gurudakshina (gift for the teacher) so that he may not become a better archer than his favourite Kshatriya student Arjuna!
    The much-glorified Bhagavat-Gita, too, favours varna-vyavastha. When Arjuna refuses to fight, one of his main worries was that the war would lead to the birth of varna-sankaras or offspring from intermixing of different varnas and the consequent “downfall” of the family.

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    On the other hand, Krishna tries to motivate Arjuna to fight by saying that it was his varna-dharma (caste-duty) to do so because he was a Kshatriya. In fact, Krishna goes to the extent of claiming that the four varnas were created by him, but he himself cannot change it!
    The Gita – Chapter 4 – Shloka 13
    CHATUR VARNYAM MAYAA SRISHTAM GUNA KARMA VIBHAGASHAHA
    TASYA KARTARAM API MAAM VIDDHI AKARTARAM AVYAYAM
    I, the Lord, O Arjuna, am the creator of the four castes (namely, Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra). You must understand Arjuna, that I who created these four orders of society am a non-doer. I cannot change it even if I wish)
    Varnam is not caste, varna means colour but later on, it was interpreted as caste based on one’s profession/vocation/job. The fourfold caste or division multiplied into a multitude of castes and sub-castes mostly based on the job one does. And still, later even a person changes his job he is still a Sutra by birth.
    The caste system as it is practised in India at present has been a bone of contention amongst many. Even this sloka has been used by many to support their view of the same but unfortunately with an incomplete /improper/misguided understanding of its words.
    It is therefore very important to understand the meaning of the sloka in its totality and not just a part of it.

    Thus, Arjuna’s main problem was being born a Kshatriya. Had he been a Brahmin or a Vaishya or a Sutra by birth, he would have been spared the trouble of fighting a destructive war.
    Even the much-applauded doctrine of niskama karma is nothing but an exhortation to faithfully perform one’s varnashram dharma in a disinterested manner.

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    Hindu theologian Shankar, too, was a supporter of varna-vyavastha. According to him, Sutras are not entitled to philosophical knowledge. However, the most elaborate exposition of varnashram dharma is to be found in Manusmriti, an important dharmashastra of Hindus. In the very first chapter of Manusmriti, it is clearly stated that Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras were created by Brahma (creator of this world) from his mouth, hands, thighs and feet respectively.

    Manu claims that the same Brahma, who created this world, also created Manusmriti and taught it to him.

    The duties of the different varnas are also mentioned in the Manusmriti. The Brahmins were created for teaching, studying, performing yahas (ceremonial sacrifices), and getting yahas performed, giving and accepting Dana (gifts). The Kshatriyas were created for protecting the citizens, giving gifts, getting yahas performed and studying. The Vaishyas were created for protecting animals, giving gifts, getting yahas performed, studying, trading, lending money on interest and doing agricultural work.
    Even today, the right to perform poojas in temples are exclusively reserved for Brahmins and the use of Sanskrit at the expense of other local languages.
    As for Ramayana basically, it is a war between the Aryans and the Dravidians. Bharatham is a story of half-brothers fighting among themselves for the throne. Both the epics make war in which people are killed a virtue.
    Those who have time pseThoThlease lease read the article at URL: https://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/essays/dharma.asp for a dispassionate and independent historical analysis of the origin of caste system in Hinduism. 3/3

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    As said Ramayana is a total myth but its period and the language in which it was written and the popularity of that language at that time and its spread far and wide from India made Ramayana a great epic to such an extent that it was believed by many as true. In bankok Rama road is famous and all major roads named as rama. In Malaysia’s most Islamic state Kelantan still ramayana is played as a shadow play and it is part of their age old traditions. No need to say about Indonesia, Cambodia and even Japan and Korea. Same with Mahavamsa too. But the latter came long after the arrival of Budhism in ceylon. Because of the fear and uncertainly suffered by the Sinhala race about their origin, religion, etc this chronicle was written mostly as a form of story telling just to create a sinhala history and ownership of Ceylon. Even if the Vijayan story is true he is neither a Sinhalese or Buddhist. Same with ravana too who was neither a sinhala or a Buddhist. But being the letest majority in Ceylon the Sinhalese were able to turn and twist mahavamsa to make it an authentic archiological truth and even school books were written in such a manner to distort the truth. Even the story about Buddhas visit to ceylon is more a fiction than truth.
    Hisotry of Dutte gamani is another distortion and Mahavamsa attributes several of its chapters to spread a lie. Can one imagine none other than the disgraceful low life Mervin Silva claimed to be a rebirth of Dutte Gamani. Then Gotta was claimed to be ravana and was even taken on a parade in some Buddhist temple in ragama. Just imagine how facts are distorted and epics and legends are manipulated to claim something that really does not exist.
    The moda Ellavala Thero claimed recently that Tamils are recent migrants and ceylon belongs to Sinhalas.

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      This is what a Sinhalese politician stated challenging Ellavala Thero. He as stated that Tamil people are the original people of the land and Sinhalese are immigrants

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nF9kboNeQQ&feature=youtu.be

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      Thanga,
      ” According to Purusha-Sukta of Rig Veda, Brahmins, Kshatriya, Vaishya and Shudra originated respectively from the mouth, hands, thighs and feet of the Purusha or the creator. ”

      You are just reproducing the fake material. The debate here is about the fake materials. Please go back and read Basil Fernando, Izeth Hussain and HLDM’s essays in CT on castes and replies for them. The Suloga you are quoting is not Rig Veda. It is well established that it was added long after Rig was composed. It is explained, after seeing the Western theories of “God created Man”, it is said, these were added to balance the Veda philosophies with them. Original Hinduism and Buddhism depend on Karma to explain the birth. Under omnipresent Pasu, Pathi, Pasam (Pasu -the lives, Pathi – Brahman, Pasam – the wage of actions) they were never born, will never die. There are no differences perceived in Pasus. You may be ant or a tree in the last birth. The birth differences (forms- not castes) come by your deed.

      When Aryan’s won the Indus Valley the Siva Brahmins were refusing to teach to their new, uneducated, barbaric rulers their teachings. But as ruling continued and their resistance was overcome. At the end, it was Dravidian who were refused be accepted in education. Varna was only color difference when the Whites won the Browns. Long after that it was changed as religious status.

      Ramayan is a war between two Dravidian Kings. Ram was like Alexander the Great, travelling to collect victories. Mahabharatham was created by Dravidian King, Krishna to create a hedge to stop the inflowing Aryan flood. He won the war and wiped all semi-Aryan (or Traitors). But Aryans returned and caught him in a Tsunami and wiped out Yathavas. Krishna resembles Leader Pirapaharan.

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    The author says Sri Lanka is known as ‘Siva Poomi’ in Tamil i.e. the land of Lord Shiva. .
    In the Sangam Literature Sri Lanka was known as “Cinkalam” சிங்களம் at the time and right up to the time of the Kandiyan kings. The 1815 Kandyan-British treaty refers to the Island as “Sinhale”. The name Ravana or “Raa(ja) of the Vana(ya) is also an early Sinhala (Elu or prakrit) name. Similarly, Ku-veni means dark-coloured in Elu and Prakrit. There is not a trace of Dravidan languages here.

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      Mad creature Chingkallam is one of the ancient Tamil words for the island meaning the land of red of copper coloured and the ancient Dravidian semi Tamil Elu speaking population were called Chingkallavar. This term is still used by indigenous Sri Lankan Tamils . This is why Sangam literature used this ancient Tamil name to describe the island and the people. When the population in the south west and central parts of the island converted to Buddhism and gradually started to create a new identity in these areas, based on their new religion and the a new language that was evolving by the mixing of the local Tamil dialect Elu with the Pali(Prakrit) of Buddhism , they Prakritised ancient Tamil Chingkalam to Sinhala and used this ancient identity to for themselves. It has nothing to with lions or part lion North Indian immigrants which was a Mahavamsa myth to explain the Tamil origin word and identity for the island Chingkalam that became Sinhala, stating the Sinhalese are descended from north Indian immigrants who were literally part lion( sic) Sinha. . Many new identities have taken the older place identity for themselves. Just like the immigrant Slavs who came to ancient Greek Macedonia , started to call themselves Macedonians . The present day Arabic speaking largely Muslim population in Egypt still using the ancient Egyptian name for them, they may be descended from the ancient Egyptians but now have completely different language culture and religion . It is the same with Chingkallam /Sinhala. Ancient Tamil Chingkallam ( land of red soil or copper coloured) got Prakritaised to Sinhala, when a new religion , language and identity took root in the south of the island and to explain this a fake lion origin and the Vijaya myth was created. Good try Sinhalese Buddhist Fascist.

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        1. No. Cinkalam does not mean red coloured anything in Tamil. The Tamil word for red is Civappu. Show me how you derived Cinkalam from Civappu.
         

        2. If Elu is a Tamil dialect why aren’t you speaking it? Why are you speaking the exact same language as Tamilnadu?
         

        3. Tamils heard of Elu only in the 19th century when the British colonial government scholars started researching the Sinhalese language and translating ancient Sinhalese literature. Elu is an ancient form of Sinhalese devoid of foreign loans. That’s how its defined. There is a whole corpus of literature written in Elu. Nothing Tamil about it. Also, according to Tamil literature this island is a non-Tamil speaking territory called Cinkalam, Ilam, the country of the Sinhalese. No mention of any Tamil Elu anywhere.
         

        4. What you explain about how the Sinhalese language was formed and how Tamil developed in the same lines as Tamilnadu some 50+ miles across the ocean simply cannot happen, as there are no natural boundaries in the island and Tamilnadu is across the ocean which would have resulted in that you spoke something similar to Sinhalese or the Vedda language. The reason you speak Tamil and not an indigenous language developed here, is that Tamil was brought here by immigrants.
         
        5. You write “When the population in the south west and central parts of the island converted to Buddhism…” What about the Tamil Buddhist theory? Is that off these days?

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      R
      The word Cinkalam (சிங்களம்) does not occur in either Sangam or late Sangam literature.
      Eelam is used in Cilappathikaram to refer to the island.
      Lanka (Ilankai) was popular after Ramayana entered Tamil.
      The term Cinkalam came in later I guess.
      BTW, the worship of Siva entered Tamil in the late Sangam period and established under the Pallava dynasty.
      If Siva is almighty god, then all world is “Siva Bhumi”. Why isolate Siva to this little island!

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        So the Madras Tamil lexicon and other scholars are lying? Cinkalam is one of the 18 non-Tamil speaking countries listed in Tamil literature, and Cinkalam is one of those 18 languages other than Tamil listed in Tamil literature. Where does these lists come from? One source I know of is the Tamil grammatical treatises but there could be others. Ilam is defined by ancient Tamils as the country of the Sinhalese (Sinhala-thesam).

        Some entries from lexicons and dictionaries are listed below:

        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/References_for_Sinhala_-_Eelam_-_Ilam.png

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          You misunderstand the lexicon. It is quoting the Seevaga Chintamani’s commentaries. That cometary was written about 900 years ago. Sangam was 2100 years ago. Seevaga Chintamani might have been written about 2000 years ago. Remember the original meaning of those workers are lost. So the commentaries are trying to trace back. They are not very accurate. They don’t follow the current scientific methods. The reason is after Sangam TN was ruled by Kalapirar. In their time all tamil works were burned or thrown in rivers because they were indulging in family life.

          Probably some half baked Bald Heads might have given this as apoint for you. (Further the Lexicon is very old work)

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            There are several lexicons which lists the 18 countries and use the word Cinkalam for Srilanka.
            Tivākaram 7th – 8th century
            Pinkalam – 10th century
            Cutamani nikantu – 10th century

            In addition to the name of the island being given as Cinkalam, the alternate Tamil word Ilam is listed and its meaning is given as “the country of the Sinhalese”.
             
            Besides these lexicons, there are grammars (Viracoliyam, Nannul ) and commentries to Tolkkapiyum and commentaries to the grammars.
            Not a single literary work considers any part of this island as Tamil.
             
            As far as I understand except for Viracoliyam (late 11th century) all the extant grammars list the 18 countries. Viracholiyum lists only a partial list of the “18” foreign countries, however Cinkalam is mentioned as one of them.
            nbsp;
            In addition to this, in all these grammars the Tamil country (Tamilakam) is defined as the area between Cape Comorin and Thirupathi hills. Surely if this island or a part of it was a Tamil kingdom they would have included it in Tamilakam, now wouldn’t they?
            There is absolutely no dispute that this island has been Sinhala territory while Tamilakam was the Tamil territory. Tamils trying to squeeze in an imaginary ancient Tamil state into this island is not achievable.
             
            Besides Tamil literature, the mostly used name for the island in Prakrit and Sanskrit literature and epigraphy is Sinhala or Sinhaladvipa.

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          PP
          One should read carefully to respond correctly.
          Any fool can shoot off the hip.
          *
          I said “The word Cinkalam (சிங்களம்) does not occur in either Sangam or late Sangam literature.”
          I also said “The term Cinkalam came in later I guess.”
          Your list does not belong to the Sangam period.

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            Late Sangam literature would be included in the Sangam literature, now wouldn’t it? Maybe you meant to say post Sangam literature?
            Last time you commented on my mention of Sangam era you said:
            Chera, Cola & Pandya were much later than the Sangam era of South India.
            I do not know what time period you think Sangam era was, but the scholarly consensus is that it was in the period between 200 BC and 200 AD (± 100).
             
            There are references to Ilam in Sangam literature (eg. food from Ilam). In the lexicons (Tivakaram, Pinkalam etc) which list the foreign countries, the word Ilam is equated to Cinkalam and the meaning given as “the country of the Sinhalese”. Whether Cinkalam was used in Sangam literature or not, its clear that the meaning of Ilam was that it was the country of the Sinhalese. If you read Siva Sankaran Sarma’s derivation for Cinkalam from red coloured soil, and all the ethnic and geographical properties attributed to Cinkalam by SSS then Cinkalam should be anterior to Ilam. As mentioned in my reply to Mallaiyuran, the Tamil territory is given explicitly in Tamil literary works, including the Tolkkappiyam, as the land lying between Thirupathi Hills and Cape Comorin. This island was not Tamil territory. And IMHO we do not need any of these literary evidence, as it is very clear that the Tamils are a diaspora of Tamilakam (Tamilnadu). Tamils trying to prove an existence legitimate indigenous Tamil state here is futile and because of the ahistoricity of this spurious claim, we get all these most obnoxious etymologies, imaginary Tamil kingdoms and chronologies which don’t fit anywhere.

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      Ravana,

      In https://sangam.org/2011/11/Aryan_Theory_4.php
      “He proposed an ‘alternate hypothesis’, the pillars of which are as follows:

      No Vijaya came to Ceylon at any time, nor any Aryans from any part of India.
      The present Sinhalese population of Ceylon are the direct descendants of the Yakkas and the Nagas, who were Dravidians, occupying Ceylon in ancient times and of a few immigrants who might have come from India from time to time.
      The Yakkas and the Nagas, who did not become Buddhist or who after becoming Buddhist became Saivites again, spoke the Tamil language throughout and the present Ceylon Tamils are their descendants.
      The Sinhalese language of today is the product of evolution from Elu, the early Dravidian dialect spoken in Ceylon, when the latter came into contact with Pali.
      The word ‘Sinhalam’ was derived from the Tamil word ‘Sri Ilam’, which became in course of time Sihalam and later Sinhalam.
      The knowledge of the scientific system of irrigation found in Ceylon was not imported from abroad but was already in the possession of the people of the island from very early times.
      The civilization of Ceylon, except for the introduction of Buddhism, is a branch of the old Dravidian civilization of India in almost all its aspects.”

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        Spare us of these nonsensical theories about the Sinhalese language and the most obnoxious etymologies. Sinhalese is a very old language which developed from a primitive prakrit. Ilam simply means the country of the Sinhalese. Sri is not even a Tamil word. Moreover Tamil does not possess the sound “S”, but everything is made into a “ch” sound when adopting to Tamil. That is why Sinhala become Cinkalam too. Genunine Tamil words cannot begin with an “s” ever.

        FYI Srilanka does not possess the landscape needed to produce two so different languages like Sinhala and Tamil. The landscape needed for languages to differentiate and evolve is that there are natural boundaries. Eg. Malayalam and Tamil differentiated from each other due to the mountain range of Western Ghats. Srilanka which is half the size of Tamilnadu does not have any natural barriers which can facilitate the evolution of two languages. If different languages should be brought to a place like Sri Lanka, ultimately those languages will converge to form one language. That is what has happened to the Sinhalese and Vedda languages, both languages got thoroughly mixed and the Sinhalese being numerically stronger influenced the Vedda language so much that today most of the original Vedda language is lost. Tamil is totally without any influence from Sinhala or Vedda language. It is simply not possible if the Tamils had been here from pre-Christian times as claimed. Tamils speak the exact same language as in Tamilnadu, and draw your basic identity on the exact same history, religion and literature as in Tamilnadu and want to override the indigenous people and be indigenous to an island 50+ miles across the ocean! Keep dreaming….

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          Sinhalese is a very old language don’t make me laugh. It is a mongrel language a mixture of the native Tamil dialect Elu and Pali and Sanskrit from Buddhism. Out of these three only Tamil belongs to the region and the rest to the plains of North India. Sinhalese only came into existence from the 8Th -9Th century AD and does not have any rich literature or anything. Everything about Sinhalese is borrowed, words, culture , food , dance , music , kings , aristocracy and 90-% of this is from Tamils and Tamils. Sinhalese DNA is 70% in common with Indian Tamils , proving most of the present day Sinhalese going around calling themselves pure Sinhalese Aryans, Aryans this and that are purely descended from Indian Tamil immigrants , half of them from recently migrated Indian Tamil low caste slave labour and other migrants. Sinhalese worship Tamil Hindu gods, not even North Indian Hindu gods , celebrate the April Tamil New year. Take of the Tamil derived words from the Sinhalese language , there will be no Sinhalese . This is not what I state but even Sinhalese historians and scholars state this. You are just another Sinhalese Buddhist Fascist racist . Sri Lankan Tamils do not speak the same Tamil as Indian Tamils but a far more ancient and archaic form of Tamil closer to old Tamil and if typical Sri Lankan Tamil is spoken in the Jaffna or Batticaloa Tamil dialects and accents ,most Indian Tamils will never understand this. Idiot you do not need mountains or other natural barriers for another language or culture to exist. Look at Britain Europe or India or many other places there are no mountains or other barriers separating and different language and ethnic groups. A new religion or invader can cause a change in culture and language over the centuries. This is what happened in the southern parts of Sri Lanka Buddhism and Pali arrived . You know the truth but are deliberately misinforming , as you are a racist.

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          Punchi Point, Punchi Brain, Punchi Willi

          “Sinhalese is a very old language which developed from a primitive prakrit.”

          How old is the language?
          Older than Hebrew, according to Champika.
          Sinhalese is a very old language, perhaps the first ape spoke Sinhala.

          With your punchi brain you are unable to see, feel, or anticipate the dangers being faced by these languages. Tamil, Sinhala, Malayalam, ………… are dying a slow death. It’s been long time coming. You should be fighting to save the language not to waste time in glorifying sham ancientness of Sinhala. Hindi in its present form is only 400 years old, however its growing, not because its official language but for other reason. Do you really know why?

          If Sinhala Language was so ancient why did Admiral Zheng He missed Sinhala version of his message (about 1409)? His inscriptions were in Chinese, Tamil and Persian praise Buddha, Shiva and Allah in equal measure. Was he after Tamil Buddha?

          “FYI Srilanka does not possess the landscape needed to produce two so different languages like Sinhala and Tamil.”

          If Hindians could build fences between India and Bangladesh, and between Pakistan and India, the Tamils could build fences in Sri Lanka in order to demarcate their separation from you stupid lot. In fact they also can opt to merge Tamil areas in Tamil Nadu and Tamils areas in Sri Lanka, if that is what you want.
          Don’t waste your time and energy how to solve your imagined nonexisting problem.

          “Tamil is totally without any influence from Sinhala or Vedda language. It is simply not possible if the Tamils had been here from pre-Christian times as claimed.”

          You should only indulge in subjects you are sure you know at least a little.

          FYI, you should refer to
          The Dravidian Element in Sinhalese
          C. E. Godakumbura
          Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London
          Vol. 11, No. 4 (1946), pp. 837-841

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      Raavana

      Why has your avatar has suddenly changed to Shiva S Varma?

      Was it because of too much Raa රා?

      What are you trying to achieve?

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    How much I learn from these deliberations. It is true there is plenty of doubts and more and more one learns and there is more and more doubts. In the absence of solid evidences there are more doubts. And that becomes a grazing ground for trouble makers.

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      Nathan is absolutely right.
      The Eelamists and those who have cultivated the Raavana myth use the total LACK of precise information to spin yarns that fit in with their Racist myhologies of exclusive homelands for various races.
      The people living in Sri lanka have a high mix of genes, and there are no Tamils or Sinhaleses as such.
      Follow the Sri lanka Genome project started in 2011:
      See discussions, stats, and author profiles for this publication at: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263278090
      The Sri Lankan Personal Genome Project

      There are two languages, Sinhala and tamil which are very similar in many ways
      and are independent of each other.
      The Jews and Arabs also have very similar languages, and have been fighting for centuries because they are brothers fighting for the same piece of land, instead of getting together to develop the land.
      As for the history and pre-history of Sinhala, read James Guyer.

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        GO and tell this to the Sinhalese Buddhist Fascist and the Sri Lankan state that created all this problems by only putting Sinhalese on a pedestal and trying to create a mono ethnic Sinhalese Buddhist state by destroying the island’s Tamils and the Tamil language that has a for older history in the island and the same right to exist. It is not the Eelamist, or anyone else doing the damage but the Sinhalese and their largely racist mindset , that is filled with lies, myths and concocted history, that the island only belongs to them, when it was not and a large part of the island was Tamil and Hindu. Many educated Sinhalese and Buddhist monks know this truth but are deliberately going around misleading the Sinhalese masses with all sorts myths and lies to be in power.

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        රාvana

        What was the conclusion of the “The Sri Lankan Personal Genome Project”?
        Did Prof. VajiraH. W. Dissanayake & his team conclude that Sinhalese, Sri Lankan Tamils, Indian Tamils, Moors, Burghers, and Malays share common stupid gene M20?

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    “The Vaedda dialect as probably did the old Sinhala approaches far closer to Tamil than modern Sinhala in its pronunciation”. (Hugh Neville. p.88.) The Vedda dialect, their spoken language is identical with Elu which was the spoken language of ancient Sri Lanka, which is semi-Tamil; as to the grammatical structure it is essentially Dravidian and simple (Emaneau, M.B 1961).
    Examples:Vedda dialect – meanings in Elu & Tamil
    1.Muruwn = in Elu dialect denotes the ancient Indian god Muru.
    2.Moriga – arrow in Elu
    3.Muru- is a form of ananku, in Elu and Tamil.
    4.Kanta boda – hill side.
    5.Kur spike; same as in Tamil
    6.Iyaka, Iya arrow. kanu, vellu in Tamil
    7.Ira sun ray
    8.Ira pojja -sun. iravi in Tamil.
    9.Neya Yakūn – kindred spirit, neya is friendly in Tamil
    10.Taraka – star, taraki in Tamil
    11.Kanta- elephant.(mount of Murukan)
    12.Yakas- includes both benevolent and malevolent deities
    13.Appa — father, same as in Tamil
    14.Elam- young, same as in Tamil
    .

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    Vel worshipping in Sri Lanka
    The generic roots of Vel worship can be traced to proto-Dravidian and tribal belief systems. Sri Lanka has been chosen as and ideal ground for this study, because many Proto-Dravidian indigenous Tamil traditions have been preserved in this island. The infiltration of Aryan traditions has been weak and slow in Sri Lanka due to its geological and historical isolation from India. Further, Prof. Ellawala concluding his study of religious practices in early Sri Lanka, made a series of relevant observation, “It becomes clear,” he said, “that the majority of the civilized people in pre-Buddhist Ceylon were followers of Hinduism in one form or another”. Before Buddhism became the established religion of Ceylon several popular proto-Hindu cults prevailed in the Island, features of which are evident today in legends and the surviving folk cults. In Buddhists folk worship the Hindu deities including Skanda continue to lurk in the background, to protect, support and give honor to Lord Buddha. (Ellawala p.161) “The pre-Buddhist gods and god-lings who the average man continued to believe in, were reduced to the position of the humble servants of Buddha — the God of Gods” (Paranavitarana. S p. 100).

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      In our sinhalese Buddhist culture So called God Skanda is not featured in our buddhist temples anywhere in the Island. So called god Skanda was womaniser ,Robber & warrior. As such it has nothing to do with Buddhism. As nowadays every religion become commercialised there may be some places or temples featuring so called womaniser Skanda alone with lord Buddha in newly build buddhist temples. But in our buddhist traditions no place for womaniser Skanda in our buddhist temples. Languages is the tool for communications. Every latter and every word has it own frequencies. Otherwise listeners can not understand them properly. If one language has 60 % words of another language former must be a direct derivative of latter. should have same alphabet and same pronunciations. as far as Sinhalese and tamil is concerned it is not the case. There may be few words from tamils language dipped into sinhalese language as Sinhalese kings always prefered south indian beauties as their queens that dipping might have occured. That does not mean Sinhala & Tamil languages belong to same categories. I think any tamil speaker can understand telugu or Kannada or Malayalam very easily. but he or she can not understand sinhalese in same manner unless he or she learnt sinhala language. Since inception of arrival of Dravidians to south part of India , They become traditional ,historical enemies of each other. killing of each other was the feature of the day. Davidians killed thousands of native inhabitant in south india for their expansion. They always tried something that in Lanka always sending agents as merchants. Elara was the classical example. As such nobody can prevent getting each other killed as & when meet them. That hate deeply dipped into genes of each other..

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    The Veddas of Sri Lanka were closely associated with the vēlāyuta temples in the Eastern littoral region. They were also the hereditary guardians of several of these great temples, Kathirkamam, Tirukkōvil, Tambulivil, etc., Their duty was to protect pilgrims, to prevent bandits from passing and to abstain from any annoyance to the worshippers. From time immemorial they were guards of the Kataragama temple. Their association with prehistoric Kataragama, which was once their habitat, their claim of kinship to Valli, the Sinhalese calling them the kovilwaname vaedda. The prevalence of these Proto-Hindu cults among the Veddas, clearly points to their old faith. Vēlāyuta Temples
    The temples where the Vel is the mūlamūrti the presiding deity are known as Vēlāyuta temples. There are a large number of velāyuta shrines in Sri Lanka in the Eastern and Northern provinces, in which the vast majority of the Tamils lived. In the Northern area there are many places of origin associated with the name of Murukan, Kantan such as Kantarodai, Kantvanakadavai, Kantavanam etc. In most of the shrines in the North worship of Vel plays a central role. Some of these temples are very ancient and could be traced to 8th century BC. The locus, origin, histories both mythical and documentary of the Velāyuta shrines, the indigenous forms of worship and local motifs associated with the shrines, the folk life and social setting in the areas surrounding the selected areas too support this. Folk elements in various locations have merged around these temples and pilgrim centers from medieval times to the present. These temples have their mythical and historical records often related to Murukan mythology as a whole and to the cultic mythic tradition of specific locals.
    According to modern archeological findings, Sri Lanka was connected to the Indian subcontinent for the past one million years up to as recently as only 7,000 years.

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      Some of these temples are very ancient and could be traced to 8th century BC.
      Here we have a load of sheer fake history.
      There is no evidence what so ever going back so far. Even the cankam literature started around 1st AD. There are no Tamil or Dravidian inscriptions or any other evidence to back what Siva SSarma is saying.

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        If you are really a Shiva S Varma? I do not think so but a Sinhalese Buddhist fascist posting as a Malayalee Shiva S Varma. What has cankam literature got to do with the prehistoric proto Dravidian Tamil worshipping of Vel? These forms of ancient worship started long before all this . For your information The earliest example of the Tamil language can be traced back to 300 BC, but its origin is believed to be during 2500 BC or so. In today’s world, around 85 million people in the world speak Tamil. It is this fact of contemporary utility that makes Tamil the longest surviving language in the world. Good try Sinhalese Buddhist Fascist with a fake Malayali identity ,deliberately done to start a fight between Tamils and Malayalis. Oh by the way a typical Indian would write my name differently , from the way you posted.

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        Shiva S Varma

        It is always good to hear dissenting voices among Historians, Anthropologists, Sociologists, …. Archaeologists. I am yet to hear from them.

        Of course we will not find any authentic evidence simply because this island has been subjected to Historical vandalism by invaders, home grown arsonists, fascist archaeologists, fantasists as historians, …… racists occupying all top state jobs that matter.

        Are you seriously looking for evidence which may or may not prove the existence of “OTHERS”? How come Professors Gananath Obeyesekera, R A L H Gunawardana, Pathmanathan, P Pushparatnam, …………………………… have found and published the evidence and you are not able to access them?

        You must be a bloody lazy bum.

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    Still when Brahma himself decreed (or even suggested) that these Varnas remain static, there is little or no room for cross-pollination between Varnas (Varnas being equated with the modern IQ gene scale). Brahmin and associated societies remain Brahmin for eternity, and likewise with the Sudra and associated communities. Varnas thus remain fixated and with no room for variation and therefore evolution of the human gene and IQ.

    Brahmin and other associated castes were/are able to move to higher and higher realms of being and thought, with the lower castes remaining subservient to them. Sudras and others have no room for higher evolution, other than to perfect the sub-routine work they have been assigned to for perpetuity (like the empting of latrine pots).

    In the event of cross-pollination (rampant, due to the “carnal “nature of all things that exist), Sudras of some Brahmin genes will rebel against their obvious displacement. Those Brahmins of Sudra genes will not quite measure up to the elevated Brahmin status. Hence the constant control and elimination of such phenomenon (not the carnal nature, but the beings that exist because of the carnal nature).

    Add that together with the modern world which finds it offensive to subscribe to the notion of the caste-system, and one would find that the Brahmin will find itself moving onto the next level of human evolution (as there is nowhere else to go in India) : The West, with its cross-pollination of genes that produced a greater variety of thought process that has taken them on a far higher route of human evolution (even colonization of others required cross-pollination of the colonizers, for the colonizing mindset to function)……….India to remain within the Sudras IQ.

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    Early Helayans or Inhabitant of the Island were not believers of Any Unknown things like GODS. They realised that Nature gives them directions & basic materials to get made every- things needed by them.As such no gods base religion existed here. They believed only on nature & its changes.As such they utilised them as & when It comes to them and found out ways to preserve them in case of scarcities. That means they knew by experience nature is not regular thing. There may be scarecities as well. That was their religious belief. As such building of temples or Kovils or Churches was not needed. If they wanted to worship nature that they believed gives them raw materials for all the necessities they could do it openly in any place they think suitable for doing it. That means early helayans or inhabitant of this Island were very practical lot and concentrated only on day to day survival & generation of their own lot & preserving knowledge they collected for future generations. That was their theme at that time. Yes it was not a religion but religion was not a necessity at that time. Day to day Survival was main thing & main concern. They made their own communication systems as the form of language using gifts were presented to them by nature at the time of evolved. That way they survived for generations to come up with race called helayans. They did not need anybodies help to come to that stage. They came up on their own. After that they behaved same way building their own race,culture by alone. When they started communications with outsiders especially neighbours called Tamils all the trouble started…Boldy wars had to fought for survival Total elimination from earth was attempted by same neighbour in several times in the past. But survived Same scheme still being attempted. Killing of them totally is the only way out for future generation survival. as a race called sinhalese. . . .

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      Chingkalla comedian with a comic blog . Please return to the asylum and instead of posting garbage here. Did you forget to take your pills?

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    Raavanan
    Iraavanan is another name used for Ravana and popularized by the Tamizh literature. It is made up of two Tamizh words, Ira and Avanan, which simply translates as a boy with incomparable beauty or a man with strong principles.
    Ravaan
    The name Ravaan is the Sanskritization of Dravidian name Iraivan. The meaning of name Iraivan in Tamizh or any Dravidian language is the king or lord.
    Sinhalese folklore the name Ravana has roots in two Sanskrit words, Rakshak and Vana. Thus, these two words give a different meaning to the name, one who looks after the jungle.
    This is the correct Etymology
    RA or Iravu =Night in Thamizh!
    and its not vanan its Vaan= Sky
    Vaanan= King of the Sky in Thamizh!
    RAVAANAN is the correct version! Meaning king of the night sky ,in Thamizh
    There are millions of references in all versions of Ramayanam referring him as a great king who understood the in’s and out of Astronomy and Planets.
    All these prove that if he ever existed he was a Dravidian and a Thamizh. Now other people, namely the Sinhalese are now falesely trying to claim this ancient Dravidian/Thamizh prehistoric myth/history of the island , that originated long before a people called Chingkallm or a language called Chingkallam came into existence as theirs and they are the heirs to this story/history in order to lay claim to many ancient prehistoric Saiva temples and sites in the north and east ,for Chingkalla Poutha Fascism another religion and culture that is an import from India , just like most Chingkallams. This like many Slavic Macedonians in Macedonia who arrived there centuries ago and took over ancient Hellenic Macedonia , now claiming everything ancient and Hellenic in what was once Greek Macedonia, including Alexander the great as theirs and part of their history.

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      Pandi Kutty is totally ignorant of Tamil grammar and Dravidian etymology.
      The Tolkappiam தொல்காப்பியம்r ules require that a name like Ravana with a beginning R should be embellished with a vowel like I. So, the Tamilization of the original Prakrit or Elu name Ravana is Iravnana. See also:
      Burrow, Thomas & Emeneau, Murray B., 1984: A Dravidian Etymological Dictionary.
      Oxford:
      You have the same addition of I to sinhalese place names like Ranamaduwa becoming Iranamadu in the Tamilized form that came later, as we can easily from the historical records and stone inscriptions

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        Another Chingkalla Buddhist fascist with a fake Indian identity. What is R got to do with pure Thamizh words like Iraivan etc or with colloquial spoken Thamizh . Go and learn Thamizh properly . Chingkalla Buddhist Fascists love to misquote or quote out of context Thamizh literary works , just like the devil quoting scriptures, to suite their racist Chingkalla Buddhist agenda

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        What is R got to do with pure Thamizh words like Iraivan etc or with colloquial spoken Thamizh?
        So you don’t know.

        I am afraid it will take a bit of time to learn good scientific etymology.

        Also Pandi Kutti seems to think that Burrow, Thomas & Emeneau, Murray B., were following a “Chingkalla Buddhist fascist agenda” in 1984, and that when the grammarian who compiled to Tolkappian was anticipating the “Chingkalla Buddhist” fascist agenda?
        How come you talk fo “Chingkalla Buddhsit” ? The limitatuions of the Tamil language prevents you of using “Sinhala” and so you write “Chingkalla”. But similalrly, “Buddhist” should be “Outtist” as there is no “B” sound in Tamil which has to evolve to the modern age.
        Some of the names like Dravida, Damila –>Thaizha, Pandiya etc., were given by north Indian Sanscrit writers to name the different semi-barbarian peole who lived south of the Vidhya mountains worshipping lingams, trees, and other animistic symbols. I see that you as well as the Tamils have adopted those names.

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          Aha so you are indeed a Chingkalla Poutha fascist.

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    ramona great grandma therese fernando

    Thanks..
    Could you rearrange your typing into a meaningful format.

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    Do you guys think Ravanah and the Monkeys spoke Tamil with the SL Veddas upon arrival then/

    What an engineering marvel the cause built by the monkeys then? birth of the civil engineering principles few thousand ago and we are related to these folks too? cool…………we may ask Richard Dawkins to revise the Selfish Gene theory on this historical fact?? we should encourage our new generation of Diapora born children to carry out research on these facts overseas and explain this to the world too?? now it explains why I look and behave so like a monkey too?

    When did Sinhala language arrive? or evolved? Sri Lanka is the Only place we speak Sinhala?? new languages are not born just overnight???

    Mahabharatha another lot of facts need to be scientifically promoted to the world so we can revise the entire human evolutionary science/history too?? do we have any meetings arranged on this subject in the UK etc??

    Bhavat Geetha is another important one to be scientifically promoted away from the spritual state of mind we have witnessed in the Indian Continent ever since Independence?? cool. Just look at us today where we are is a proof we are all the same monkey origins?? splendid……..we are the living proof of Darwinian principles but we should revise man was formed not in Africa but in Tamil Nadu??

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    Both Ravana and Rama were born in Uttar Pradesh
    One sought help from the ‘Destroyer’ from Kailash, the other from the ‘Preserver’ omnipresent
    Though not mentioned by Valmiki, according to most versions, Sita was Ravana’s daughter
    Ravana had also invaded Lanka
    So, do not know what all the FUSS is all about !!??

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    Thiagarajah Venugopal


    “we are the living proof of Darwinian principles but we should revise man was formed not in Africa but in Tamil Nadu??”

    Actually Seeman (Tamil Nadu politician) believes his great great ……………… grand father God Muruga/Skantha/Subramaniya was the first Tamil, first human being, …………………….
    Would you like to challenge him?

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      Nop….. the evolutionary theory and ‘Seamen’ make sense. A very successful breeding program indeed…………in recent times the required ‘substrate’ came from 70 years of poaching in SL waters……….in return our children underwent training in ‘fishing’ in TN camps so I heard?.

      A very monkey affair/heritage indeed…………..in-fact all has been a monkey affair for the past 70 years proofs the theory too………a modern day colonialism ‘not by the Whitman’ is a proof……..back on track with the evolutionary theory for sure.

      Hon MR understood this monkey business/theory a very very long time ago ahead of us all even before we started reaping the ‘across the water’ training on fishing…hence the political killing of a visionary leadership until is sucumed to the same is it not?

      It is for the same reason we were discussing the causeway to celebrate the monkey bridge/business few thousand years ago…….not sure where the new one connects in SL?

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    At the end of the day, the language you speak is not your ethnicity. There are many “Sinhalese” or “Tamizhs” who do not speak the respective languages, but choose to identify with that label.

    Similarly, the argument “who was on this island first?” is futile. We will never be able to come to a satisfactory and conclusive decision about it.

    Same with the argument over who inhabited the land mass of present-day “India” or “Tamil Nadu”. Languages are spread with religious texts, war and conquests and relocation of groups of people. Any and in fact all of these can happen at ANY TIME in history (currently the world is undergoing these same natural changes). So to ry and point out which language pre-dated the other is futile.

    The REAL reason people from both sides are all bent out of shape about this issue, is the false logic that “if you were here, you deserve more” mentality. The racists Sinhalese, Tamils, and in fact Trumpistas of the world seem to believe in this fallacy.

    What we need to find answers to is “how can we co-exist in peace” on this island, which faces many difficulties – both climactic, cultural and political in to the future?

    As can be seen from the performance of our politicians, busniess people, corruption, violence and utter disregard for human dignity does not rest with the speakers of one language or the other. Nor does is depend on which part of the island you lived or your ancestors have lived.

    Get with the program Sri Lankans – in-fighting and squabbling with each other while the international sharks circle our waters, is not going to give either language-speakers anything to brag about in the future.

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    Well said Sinhala Buddhist. You are indeed an enlightened soul by the preaching of Buddha. As you say due to lack of facts and figures there is no way we will find an answer to who came first, etc., and even if it is so what does it matter in a modern world. Countries without any culture or history are progressing well while we idiots only fighting about the past and going backwards.

    If we want to improve our quality of life then we have to unite and fight the common enemies mostly the dirty politicians. In SL if there is no racism then there is no politics. Who knows even Madush may come up with some racist opinion to get out of his crimes. First we must make people to understand that Racism is not Patriotism.

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