Sailing South And Meeting The North

Filed under: Colombo Telegraph,MORE OPINION,Opinion |

By Darshanie Ratnawalli

 Darshanie Ratnawalli

Darshanie Ratnawalli

Gautama Buddha, the pride of the Sakyas, c. 460-380 BC according to the latest consensus[i], was no empiricist. He lived in a wondrous world populated by myriad fantastic beings of the Indo-Aryan myth pool. A passage in the Chullavagga, an early text in the Pali Cannon gives us the Buddha’s eye view of the deep sea. According to Him, the great ocean, awe inspiring, astonishing and curious is “the dwelling place of mighty beings, among which are the Timi, the Timingala, the Timitimingala, the Asuras, the Nagas and the Ghandharvas” with the whole lot so constituted as to “stretch from one to five hundred leagues”.-(p32, Jean Philippe Vogel:1926[ii]full text

Going to the beach would have been such an adventure in the Buddha’s time.  How exciting then to have been a long distance trader from the north of India sailing to new, distant lands in the south. What marvelous travelers’ tales would have been brought back about what new creatures! Er… no. No new creatures. A northern trader sailing south would encounter the same old familiar creatures of the Indo Aryan myth-pool; the Yakshas, Nagas, Suparnas, etc. It’s very like that old science fiction plot device; when you are escaping the Earth, you are really flying back to it.

To come back to Earth Watson, don’t you see what happens? Northern traders sailing south are agents widening the geographical horizons of their known universe. After they have discovered the south, so to speak, the northern storytellers step in and start locating stories in the new southern settings, which they populate with creatures they have grown up with; Yakshas, Yakshanis, Nagas, Suparnas. Thus, they annex the south, make it part of their cultural universe where familiar creatures of their own myth-pool walk.

From what other myth-pool were they supposed to get creatures, from the myth-pools of the Celts or the Greeks? I can imagine you asking crossly. But what about from the myth-pools of the indigenous peoples of the southern lands? Why do the people sailing to Lanka in the ancient north Indian stories (i.e. the Jataka stories) always encounter Naga-dipas, Yakshas and Suparnas of northern Indo Aryan provenance? Why didn’t they ever encounter- let me invent some creature features for the hypothetical native myth pool- “Olubuwas” or “Korossas”? Why does the Lord Buddha with his encounter with the Yaksha Alawaka back home still fresh in his mind, have to go all the way to Lanka to tame the same old Yakshas? Why not tame the “Korossas” for variety’s sake?

Suppose yourself to be a northern storyteller from the Indo Aryan cultural milieu in the centuries BC Watson. Fantasy plays a big role in how you understand the world. You believe in more than one world and you believe with all your heart in the Yakshas, Nagas, Suparnas, Pisachas, etc. In your stories, northern characters also encounter these magical species in the south. You see nothing wrong with that. These are creatures sans borders. They exist all over the universe. Maybe the natives in the south have a different myth pool inhabited by a different set of mythical creatures. But what’s that to you? You believe what you believe and your northern audience believe what they believe. For you to write stories of northern characters having interludes with mythical creatures conceived in the native imaginations of the south, conditions of equality should exist between the north and the south. So not the case.

Today we have at least a few remnant words of ancient native tongues in the Sinhala language; “oluwa”, “kakula”, etc. There may be more in the Sinhala dialect of the Vaddas. But all the creature categories of the ancient native myth-pools have been annihilated by the Yakshas and Nagas of the IA myth pool. Even the Vaddas came to call their ancestor cult, the “kin-Yakshas” or “ne-yakku”. This was one way the Indo Aryan cultural universe expanded southwards Watson. What a pearl of wisdom Holmes! I don’t think anyone has ever put it quite like that. Anyone could have Watson by mining that rich lode of stories created by the northern Indo-Aryan speakers of the centuries BC.

Take the Buddhist Jataka stories. The majority of them unfold in north Indian surroundings. You can’t walk ten yards in these surroundings without falling over some Naga, Yaksha, Yakshi or Suparna, that is to say a Garuda, the traditional foe of the Naga[iii]. A few Jatakas have key scenes set in the southern regions. All these southern key scenes center in Tambapanni, a synonym for Lanka. South India rarely comes within the purview of the Jatakas– (p66, G.C. Mendis, 1996). This reflects one difference between Tamil Nadu and Lanka in the pre-Christian centuries. It was the Jain monkhood that played the significant role in Tamil Nadu while in Lanka Buddhism ruled from the first. The much smaller corpus of Tamil Nadu cave inscriptions (30 sites with 89 inscriptions as against tiny Sri Lanka’s 269 sites yielding 1276 inscriptions) seems to represent the Jain monkhood to the exclusion of the Buddhist monkhood. “There is a significant influence of Jain Ardhamagadhi – and not of Asokan Prakrit – in the language of Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions”- (Champakalakshmi:2003[iv]full text) Also in Y. Subbarayalu’s view, the absence of the term “sangha” in TN caves contrasting with its almost compulsive mention in SL caves is a clinching evidence for excluding Buddhists from the TN corpus:-(Subbarayalu, “Early Historic Tamil Nadu”; 2009, p108[v])

Akitta-jataka (read[vi]), marks a rare appearance of south India on the Jataka horizon. Akitti, the Bodhisatva ascetic leaves worldly life in Benares, comes eventually to Kavirapattanam in the Damila Kingdom, gets much respect and gifts there, likes it not, takes off by air, lands at Karadipa near Nagadipa and finds a solitary haven by a Kara tree. At this time, the Jataka informs us, Karadipa was known as Ahidipa, which means the isle of snakes. The Sakra visits Akitti in Karadipa.

An ascetic lives on the bank of the Ganges in the Bakabrahma-jataka. He assumes the shape of a Suparna to rescue riders of a pleasure raft from the rage of the Naga king of Ganges-(p137, Vogel:1926). In the steamy Sussondi-jataka[vii] (read), the Bodhisatva is a young Suparna in Nagadipa, aka Seruma-dipa at that time and the abode of Suparnas. The Suparna travels to Benares in the guise of a beautiful young man to play dice with the King Tamba of Benares, whose queen is the beautiful Sussondi. The Suparna and Sussondi fall in love. He causes a storm in Benares and under its cover carries her off to Nagadipa. While taking his pleasures from her, the Bodhisatva continues his gambling trips to Benares. Meanwhile, the King’s minstrel under orders to trace the queen travels from Benares to Bharukaccha and boards a merchant ship headed for Suvannabhumi (Further India). He is shipwrecked, floats to Nagadipa and finds Sussondi wandering on the shore. She tends to him as tenderly as a mother and takes her pleasures from him and hides him whenever the Suparna returns. Sometime later another ship of Benares merchants lands in Nagadipa and the minstrel gets back to Benares. He sings about Sussondi in the presence of the King and the Suparna. The Suparna is appalled by the wickedness of this woman, brings her back and comes no more to Benares.

Meanwhile in the Pada-kusala-manava jataka[viii] (read), Brahmadatta, king of Benares has a queen who sins and swears false oaths, “if I have sinned against you, may I become a Yakshani with a face like a horse”. Posthumously she becomes exactly that. She dwells in a cave situated in a vast forest at the foot of a mountain and devours men who travel from the east to the western border. She gets a warrant from Vessavana[ix], the monarch of the Yakshas to eat people in a certain space. One day she catches a handsome and rich brahmin, carries him to her cave to eat, but ends up making him her captive husband. Does it occur to you Holmes that the Jataka stories are sexy? Irrelevant Watson, but yes they ooze sex.

Imagine Watson that you are a travelling man. Crossing that vast forest near Benares from the east to the western border, you run into this horse faced Yakshani. You escape by the skin of your teeth. You are traumatized. You have nightmares and grow thin. Your physician recommends a complete change of scene, a long sea voyage. You sail south. With the sea breeze, the bloom returns to your wan cheeks. Your ship develops technical problems, you land in Tambapanni. And there is a Yaksha town called Sirisavatthu, inhabited by Yakshanis. Whenever there is a new shipwreck, they hoodwink the survivors to become their husbands and eat the previous batch of husbands. If they find no shipwrecks near the hometown, they scour the coast as far as the river Kalyani on one side and Nagadipa on the other. Welcome to the Valāhassa-jātaka[x]-(read).

@ http://ratnawalli.com /  and rathnawalli@gmail.com


[i] For a quick glimpse into dates, glance at p5 of Full text pdf of Witzel, Michael E. J. 2009. “Moving Targets? Texts, language, archaeology and history in the Late Vedic and early Buddhist periods”. Indo-Iranian Journal 52(2-3): 287-310.

[ii] 1972, 1926, English, Book, Illustrated edition:Indian serpent-lore; or, The nāgas in Hindu legend and art”-(full text) by Vogel, J. Philippe (Jean Philippe), 1871-1951

[iii] See Chapter III (The Nāgas in the Jātakas- p132-165) of Jean Philippe Vogel:1926-(full text).

[iv]  “A magnum opus on Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions”, R. Champakalakshmi in Frontline, Volume 20 – Issue 13, June 21 – July 04, 2003- (Read)

[v] Y Subbarayalu, Visākī and Kuviraṉ, Historical Implications of Names in the Tamil-Brahmi Inscriptions”– in Early Historic Tamil Nadu, c 300 BCE-300 CE, Essays commemorating Prof. K. Kailasapathy on the twenty-fifth anniversary of his death, Ed. K. Indrapala, 2009

[vi] Akitta Jataka, No. 480, The Jātaka, Vol. IV, tr. by W.H.D. Rouse, [1901], at sacred-texts.com

[ix] Vessavana = Sanskrit Vaiśravana, Sinhala Wesamuni

Print Friendly

86 Responses to Sailing South And Meeting The North

  1. 1
    32
    The usual disclaimer. Thanking the positive commentors, yet emphasizing that comments and the commentors on this site are not connected with me in any way. All the comments are entirely a reflection on the democracy and the discretion of this site. I haven’t solicited those comments in any way, nor am I part of any “circle” consisting of these commentors. They are completely unknown to me and I haven’t submitted my article to them. This disclaimer is to establish the widest distance from and renounce all responsibility for the levels of comprehension of those outside my intended target audience. In other words, this is not my group. Although there are sites out there that are maintained to facilitate discussion within a group, this is not to my knowledge such a group-site. It’s broad-based with a wide readership of which (hopefully) the commentors are a minute fraction.

    Darshanie Ratnawalli
    July 13, 2014 at 6:48 pm
    Reply

    • 11
      2
      ‘They are completely unknown to me and I haven’t submitted my article to them’ Silly broad, Then why are you writing here? Dedicate your rubbish to Jimsofty (Mark), Champika & Champika, Rajpal Brothelnayake and to Grease Piya. Yet another boring trash. Native & Lapatiya over to you.

      Ravana
      July 14, 2014 at 4:07 am
      Reply

      • 10
        2
        BBS might be really interested in this crap of hers for their terrorist propaganda. Now it is official, the self proclaimed terrorism expert Rohan Gunaratne has branded BBS as terrorist organization, before people branding him as a hypocrite!

        Thiru
        July 14, 2014 at 4:07 pm
        Reply

        • 1
          0
          [Edited out]

          Ivanthe incredible
          July 17, 2014 at 7:33 pm
          Reply

          • 1
            0
            Ivanthe incredible “[Edited out]” Please change your name to Ivan the Invisible and remain as one until the last days of your life.

            Native Vedda
            July 18, 2014 at 11:36 am
            Reply

            • 3
              0
              Yet again, I could suffocate you to breathe till a thousand moons invicibly.

              Ivan the Incredible
              July 20, 2014 at 6:26 pm
              Reply

      • 8
        1
        Ravana Being the elder statesmen of this island with 9 spare heads, how well do you fit in this Indo-Aryan myth pool? According to Tamils Ravana was a Dravidian (another myth) who composed Kambhoji raga, an expert Veena player and devotee of Siva, owned a private jet, …….. Do you see yourself writing stories for kids, for example “Indo Dravidian Myth Pool”? It would an useful effort for the promotion of Ramayana Trail tourism exclusively designed to amuse gullible Hindians. The North meeting the middle kingdom in Nuwara Elia is an experience of back to the future while eyes wide shut on the morning after the night before.

        Native Vedda
        July 15, 2014 at 12:53 am
        Reply

        • 3
          1
          ‘Being the elder statesmen of this island with 9 spare heads, how well do you fit in this Indo-Aryan myth pool?’ – Nope, I don’t fit in it at all. ‘According to Tamils Ravana was a Dravidian (another myth…’ -According to Valmiki & Hindians, Yes Ravana was a Hindu, according to majority of ill informed leant Sri Lankans Ravana was a Sinhalese and for the rest its a Myth, like your Kande yaka, Kiri yaka, Bilidi yaka so on. ‘It would an useful effort for the promotion of Ramayana Trail tourism exclusively designed to amuse gullible Hindians.’ -Tangerine group was once trying to promote this very idea but it didn’t workout for some reason. I guess its because there is nothing to relate or found in Nuwaraeliya/Sithaeliya with regards to Ramayanaya except Gregory Lake, Golf club, Haggala gardens. Again the Pope should apologize for this? Rathinawalli, Champika, Gota & our well known orgasm-Jimsofty can form a formidable group and come up with something perhaps, of course with the blessings of our Mahanayakas? BTW Native, When Ravana was flying his jet over your caves didn’t your forefathers try to bring it down assuming its a giant flying Thalagoya?

          Ravana
          July 15, 2014 at 12:49 pm
          Reply

          • 6
            1
            Ravana “When Ravana was flying his jet over your caves didn’t your forefathers try to bring it down assuming its a giant flying Thalagoya?” Its a good question. I thank you for raising it at this opportune moment. I need to clarify with my Elders as I am not authorise to say things that I do not know as you know am not OTC, Ramu, Banda, Irathinavalli, ……….. As far as I know (with my limited knowledge) Ravana’s private jet is another Hindian myth. As of other myth Tamils and Sinhalese have already bought it lock stock and barrel.

            Native Vedda
            July 15, 2014 at 1:27 pm
            Reply

            • 5
              2
              Oh sweet Darshanie Ratnawalli, We look forward to your next piece on the CT. Please don’t issue the disclaimer again. We are your fans, never mind the text we can put up with it.

              Thiru
              July 15, 2014 at 2:27 pm
              Reply

              • 3
                0
                I wish your 34th & 35th characters were replaced by the 19th, 8th, 9th & 20th letters respctivel y.

                Mikhel Kachkonkonovich
                July 17, 2014 at 7:50 pm
                Reply

        • 3
          1
          He was the world’s pioneer womannapper, and one of a kind of a non-rapist of a kidnapped Janki of the spineless hubby Ram aka Rambo.

          Whyconda Sage
          July 17, 2014 at 7:42 pm
          Reply

    • 5
      2
      Despite the disclaimer I am under the impression DR is thoroughly enjoying the comments. DR has created a kind of a cult culture in CT and it’s commentators. It’s like there is a selected lot and clear pattern of comments by each commentator including me. NV is almost always looking to Ken for solace, as if NV is being tortured by DR (it may be true for most of us the torture part) Amarasiri, references to Monk Mahanama with derogatory word in front. J. Muthu desperately trying to find where DR lives with ulterior motives. J. Sopty trying hard to impress DR hoping DR will share her contact details with her. Ken always obliges to NV’s pleadings while Rationalist trying hard to tame DR. In the mean time Germany wins the “world Cup” at least that’s over now can get back to sleeping early. On top of all this I think DR is good at creative writing ! (my kinky way of shaping up to DR :) Am I right to Say DR is most desirable women in CT?(being openly kinky now) While DR could have included the Disclaimer in the write up itself she opts to do it as a comment which shows again her eagerness to get involved. Keep us entertained DR !

      Afzal
      July 14, 2014 at 4:09 am
      Reply

      • 1
        1
        Not Agreed and 1 point Agreed. “While DR could have included the Disclaimer in the write up itself she opts to do it as a comment which shows again her eagerness to get involved.” Don’t you Guys think Ladies must get attention from GENTS. So is this Lady’s articles too!, Better than G eneva Lost Pee Risk’s, Dayan’s, Or Malinda’s and Why Not this??????.

        JULAMPITIYE AMARAYA
        July 14, 2014 at 9:23 pm
        Reply

    • 4
      1
      Do you think the commentators are that much miniscule than your burrowed articles and the putrid brain. Kuja.

      Rachmanovic
      July 14, 2014 at 4:42 am
      Reply

    • 7
      1
      Then why do you submit your articles in this site silly girl if you cannot participate and engage ?? I suggest lanka web :)

      Robert.R
      July 14, 2014 at 7:22 am
      Reply

      • 3
        1
        Robert.R This article was first published in Nation.lk yesterday.

        Native Vedda
        July 15, 2014 at 1:30 am
        Reply

        • 3
          1
          Ah nation.lk? Isn’t it where Malinda works? Figures, they both do belong together :-)

          Robert.R
          July 15, 2014 at 5:59 pm
          Reply

          • 1
            1
            Come on Robert R, you guys have very short memory. I suggested that sometime ago that these two would make an ideal pair, such as Champaka+Champuka, Jimsofty+Fukushima (Native would now say its a Myth), Gota+Gandasara, so on.

            Ravana
            July 15, 2014 at 8:05 pm
            Reply

          • 4
            1
            Robert.R All her articles first published in Nation then in CT. The child and MS work hand in glow. I don’t question their judgement (always wrong)but their intention.

            Native Vedda
            July 15, 2014 at 8:14 pm
            Reply

          • 4
            0
            Better say, they both lie, belie.

            Bellybutton
            July 17, 2014 at 7:52 pm
            Reply

    • 4
      2
      Roger, an interesting disclaimer at that! With all the myths, half truths and wild imaginations of the past, one can easily be bored and put to sleep. In this world of science, technology, laws of nature, and knowledge your articles are a real contrast to teas one’s imagination. Can you imagine a woman with a horse’s face? If you believe a human race born to a lion and a woman, I am sure you could believe anything. You don’t need Darwin’s laws. Out there are many gullible souls willing to believe these and more myths which have no bearing on the miserable lives of millions of Sri Lankans who can’t afford to buy a green chilli for Rs5!

      Thiru
      July 14, 2014 at 7:37 am
      Reply

    • 2
      1
      Darshanie Ratnawalli, I am sure you know what you are talking about: “Does it occur to you Holmes that the Jataka stories are sexy? Irrelevant Watson, but yes they ooze sex.” Can you please explain what is meant by “they ooze sex”. Thank you.

      Thiru
      July 14, 2014 at 11:05 am
      Reply

    • 1
      2
      Fragrant Darshanie, ….I haven’t solicited those comments in any way…. “NOT GUILTY, your honour. I did not SOLICIT anything, I just took up a PROVOCATIVE pose, publicly, and I myself was most surprised when these….these, vile creatures crept out of the woodwork and pestered me with smart-arse comments. Poor Watson my companion was as useful as a policemen in Aluthgama on a hot June night.”

      Spring Koha
      July 14, 2014 at 12:05 pm
      Reply

      • 3
        1
        Did your companion use his baton so warm as a policeman’s? Naughty Koha.

        Muwan Palace
        July 17, 2014 at 7:57 pm
        Reply

    • 1
      1
      Dear Miss D R; You are so eager to throw a stone at the hornet’s nests. and you are doing that with no care. Have a nice time!

      JULAMPITIYE AMARAYA
      July 15, 2014 at 11:35 am
      Reply

    • 3
      1
      All your crap means absolutely nothing. Your Buddhism has gone Barbarism. If your skin heads shows every bit of satanism and you’re approving it by your many carp articles. Sinhala Only is a failure – Your Buddhism is Barbarian.

      Crab of the sea
      July 15, 2014 at 10:11 pm
      Reply

    • 5
      0
      DR voters have spoken ! hope u get the idea if you are smart enough to get the message, lets see how you react with your next write up !

      Afzal
      July 16, 2014 at 1:43 am
      Reply

  2. 12
    2
    Darshanie Ratnawalli – “Take the Buddhist Jataka stories. The majority of them unfold in north Indian surroundings. You can’t walk ten yards in these surroundings without falling over some Naga, Yaksha, Yakshi or Suparna, that is to say a Garuda, the traditional foe of the Naga[iii]. A few Jatakas have key scenes set in the southern regions. All these southern key scenes center in Tambapanni, a synonym for Lanka. South India rarely comes within the purview of the Jatakas- (p66, G.C. Mendis, 1996). This reflects one difference between Tamil Nadu and Lanka in the pre-Christian centuries. It was the Jain monkhood that played the significant role in Tamil Nadu while in Lanka Buddhism ruled from the first. ” Whitewash Para-Monk Mahanama lies and imaginations? Some people have no Shame in light of facts. Did Buddhs Fly to The mountain ‘Adams peak” ? The fact is that the Sinhalese and Tamils are paras from South India. Test the DNA with controls. Sinhala are tamil speaking Para-Demala and only the Native Veddah are the owners of the Land of Native Veddah. The Vedda Tribe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f89NuukY32U Tamil-speaking Veddas of Vaharai await war recovery support https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeFCuZwexRw

    Amarasiri
    July 13, 2014 at 7:26 pm
    Reply

  3. 12
    1
    Ken Do you see any connection between Indo-Aryan myth pool and Jaffna Odial Kool? Here is the recipe how to make Jaffna Kool http://www.sbs.com.au/food/recipes/jaffna-kool

    Native Vedda
    July 13, 2014 at 7:35 pm
    Reply

    • 4
      2
      Come on Native where this cow live…please let me know….

      J.Muthu
      July 14, 2014 at 3:22 am
      Reply

      • 7
        1
        J.Muthu “Come on Native where this cow live…please let me know….” Please be nice to this child.

        Native Vedda
        July 14, 2014 at 3:40 am
        Reply

        • 4
          1
          That’s to say be sexually disciplined while engaging in discourses with her.

          Somapana
          July 14, 2014 at 4:46 am
          Reply

        • 1
          0
          Native, Your concern for this child is touching, but are you sure that it is entirely healthy?

          Joseph Pillai
          July 14, 2014 at 1:35 pm
          Reply

          • 7
            1
            Joseph Pillai Naturally I am worried about this child’s well being as you know this child is being groomed by one or two old perverts, I mean revisionist historians. As Afzal says J Muthu is the only one who really tries his luck with ulterior motives. For rest of the old codgers Irathinavalli’s typing gives them the satisfaction of reading a top shelf adult magazines.

            Native Vedda
            July 14, 2014 at 11:16 pm
            Reply

    • 2
      1
      Native Varaharasi kool with sea foods from the islands, yakshini from the neighbourhood with indo aryan myth pool, last not the least some toddy from the katpahatharu for inebriation are simple pleasures of the Jaffna man! Here is some serious thoughts on Jaffna man http://www.noolaham.net/project/37/3682/3682.pdf

      ken robert
      July 14, 2014 at 6:43 am
      Reply

      • 4
        1
        ken robert Thanks I will read it when I get time.

        Native Vedda
        July 14, 2014 at 11:18 pm
        Reply

      • 3
        1
        ken robert “Varaharasi kool with sea foods from the islands” kool yummy. I have no idea the kool that I enjoyed was made with Varaharasi. I don’t drink so I wouldn’t know how the combination of toddy and kool taste like. “yakshini from the neighbourhood with indo aryan myth pool” The Tamil yakshinis were frigid and most of them had at least three or four brothers and as many uncles and few concerned neighbours. They all looked like Tamil film enforcers. As if that was not enough both grandmas had permanent nasty look on their faces. Most fathers were friendly only after downing two or three bottles of toddy. Kool made me feel cool not the girls.

        Native Vedda
        July 15, 2014 at 8:46 pm
        Reply

        • 1
          0
          “Kool made me feel cool not the girls” Native I will not blame the girls, but the culture of Jaffna man preventing the liberation of woman. Does our society( Srilankan)tolerate Anna Kareninas?

          ken robert
          July 16, 2014 at 11:44 am
          Reply

          • 3
            0
            Ah, you reminded me of the good old Tolstoy.

            Kirmanov Dostayevsky
            July 17, 2014 at 8:05 pm
            Reply

  4. 4
    5
    ” Gautama Buddha, the pride of the Sakyas, c. 460-380 BC according to the latest consensus[i], was no empiricist. He lived in a wondrous world populated by myriad fantastic beings of the Indo-Aryan myth pool. …” Total nonsense witten by Vogel or whoever it was. No one knows what the Buddha actually said because it was never recorded. It is all hearsay based on the oral tradition. The real essence of buddhism is the extremely raw ANITYA(impermanence) DUKKHA(suffering), ANATMA(no soul) concept and the KARMIC FORCE theory which defines the universe ( aka sansara ). The Buddhist concept of reincarnation ( transfer of consciousness energy to another life form , which is totally scientific at least in theory as energy can only be transferred and not destroyed) does not involve the transmigration of a permanet soul but just a transfer of energy. The Buddhist concept of reincarnation is very different from the hindu concept of rebirth ( transfer of a permanent soul from one body to another ). Acoording to buddhist theory the person being reincarnated is NEITHER the person who dies NOR anyone else because of the absence of a permanent unit or soul. It is just an energy transfer The jataka stories are mainly buddhist mythology and not to be taken seriously or confused with real Buddhist theory. If the author or anyone wants to debate this fact, be my guest

    American Mama
    July 13, 2014 at 8:55 pm
    Reply

    • 4
      1
      American Mama “If the author or anyone wants to debate this fact, be my guest ” 1. “No one knows what the Buddha actually said because it was never recorded. It is all hearsay based on the oral tradition.” Yes, and it took another 300+ years before it was recorded. What were the errors? Now to Buddhist Philosophy or Teachings or Religion? Is Buddhism a Philosophy or a Religion? 2. “ANITYA(impermanence) DUKKHA(suffering), ANATMA(no soul) concept and the KARMIC FORCE theory which defines the universe ( aka sansara ).” 3. “The Buddhist concept of reincarnation ( transfer of consciousness energy to another life form , which is totally scientific at least in theory as energy can only be transferred and not destroyed) does not involve the transmigration of a permanet soul but just a transfer of energy” To begin with The Soul (Atman) of Hinduism and No soul (Anatta) of Buddhism)) are old concepts, that was attractive 2.500 years ago, and are just Myth beliefs, which believers believe in. Rebirths and reincarnation are also Myth beliefs, and Jataka stories have been added to give “validation: to rebirth. To believe in transfer of consciousness energy to another life form you have to be brainwashed in Buddhism. This has no scientific basis. Transformation of energy from one form to another is scientific,( First Law of Thermodynamics) BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN LIFE OR KARMA. You are trying to “Prove” that Buddhism is scientific, when in fact there are many Myth beliefs also contained in Buddhism, as in other religions such as Hinduism., Christianity and Islam, and others. Nothing scientific. Just belief. 4. Impermanence (Anicca)is one of the essential doctrines or three marks of existence in Buddhism. The term expresses the Buddhist notion that all of conditioned existence, without exception, is transient, or in a constant state of flux. The mutability of life, that time passes on no matter what happens, is an important aspect of impermanence. The Pali word anicca literally means “inconstant”, and arises from a synthesis of two separate words, ‘Nicca’ and the “privative particle” ‘a’.[1] Where the word ‘Nicca’ refers to the concept of continuity and permanence, ‘Anicca’ refers to its exact opposite; the absence of permanence and continuity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impermanence May be you should try to counter the argument put forward by the following on Buddhism.. Copernicus, Galileo Kepler and newton came up with data and reasons as to why the earth rotates and goes around the Sun. Buddhism The Great Evil — Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNOfTGSADdY Buddhism The Great Evil — Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clcs2PSze0I

      Amarasiri
      July 14, 2014 at 7:02 am
      Reply

      • 1
        4
        Mr Amerasisi 1.”To believe in transfer of consciousness energy to another life form you have to be brainwashed in Buddhism. This has no scientific basis. Transformation of energy from one form to another is scientific,( First Law of Thermodynamics) ” Everyone including yourself is brainwashed by some theory or the other. I am a Biologist myself but the fact is that even science does not have all the answers and never will. I know all about the laws of thermodynamics (entropy, enthalpy etc..)but Don’t forget that Newtonian Physics was the norm until Einstein came along. SO science has it’s own holes and vulnerabilities. Maybe you should remind yourself that all life forms are basically energy in different forms and therefore the Buddhist theory that upon death energy can be passed onto another life form is quite scientific ( you say so your self). And consciousness energy itself is a part of that energy. Don’t forget that there is a particle component and a wave component to energy. You seem to have ignored my comment “..at least in theory…” I understand that it cannot be proved with a scientific experiment because we are in the realm of metaphysics. Even Hawking’s black hole/big bang theory has no experimental support. Hence the kalama sutta where Buddha said think for yourself before accepting what I say or what anyone else says Unfortunately I have no time for long sermons. More later

        American Mama
        July 14, 2014 at 8:42 pm
        Reply

        • 2
          1
          American Mama, Thanks for the Reply and clarification from your viewpoint. Clarification of your background in Biology and Science helps me in properly responding to our disagreements and my response. Your background in Biology and Science, I am sure, will make it easy to accept that except for Native Veddah Aethho, ALL others are paras, Para-deshis, Foreigners, in the Land of Native Veddah Aethho. 1. You say, based on the Buddhist teachings, energy can be transformed into another “life” form. I say no, there is no evidence for transformation to a life form.. The attempt here is to reason that rebirth is possible, based on Buddhist and Hindu beliefs. They are just beliefs, Religious Beliefs. No independently verifiable evidence has been provided so far. So, Rebirth, Buddhist or Hindu Versions are just beliefs. Of course, there is a difference between the Permanent Soul, Atman of Hinduism, and no soul, Anatta, of Buddhism. However, both are beliefs. 2. I agree that energy can be transformed from one form to other, from heat, electromagnetic radiation, mass, but not life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy In physics, energy is a property of objects, transferable among them via fundamental interactions, which can be converted in form but not created or destroyed. The joule is the SI unit of energy, based on the amount transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving it 1 metre against a force of 1 newton.[1] The Standard Model: Fundamental Forces and the Origin of Mass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCsIL4CSpXQ 3. My Question: Now to Buddhist Philosophy or Teachings or Religion? Is Buddhism a Philosophy or a Religion? You did not answer that. I will give my response after I see yours.

          Amarasiri
          July 15, 2014 at 2:55 am
          Reply

          • 3
            1
            American Mama, Your Thoughts? You said, “If the author or anyone wants to debate this fact, be my guest ” We agree on more things than disagree.

            Amarasiri
            July 15, 2014 at 6:33 pm
            Reply

          • 0
            2
            Mr Amarasiri 1.”ALL others are paras, Para-deshis, Foreigners, in the Land of Native Veddah Aethho…”etc.. I am not overly concerned about who the original inhabitants of a place are. What really happened several thousand years ago is mere speculation and archaeology is not an exact science. Pygmies MAY CLAIM to be the orginal inhabitants of Congo, but what good did they do except hunt animals and dance around fire ? The word PARA means ‘foreign/outsider.’ So for the others the veddhas are PARA. 2. “..there is NO EVIDENCE for transformation to a life form.No independently verifiable evidence has been provided so far…” etc.. You appear to be looking for scientific evidence for metaphysical phenomena. As I said scientifc or experimental proof cannot be provided for metaphysical phenomena. Moreover even science is NOT PERFECT or foolproof. Jean Baptiste Lamarck provided PROOF / EVIDENCE for his theory of evolution but it was debunked later. In my first post I said ” transfer of consciousness energy to another life form, which is totally scientific AT LEAST IN THEORY as energy can only be transferred and not destroyed…” ( Note the AT LEAST IN THEORY part, which is highlighted using upper case ). If you argue that theory alone is not sufficient, then I must state that even Hawking’s Big bang theory which is widely accepted does not have experimental proof mainly because of the metaphysical aspect of what was there before the singularity that led to the big bang. 4 “..I agree that energy can be transformed from one form to other, from heat, electromagnetic radiation, mass, but not life forms..” etc.. All energy is energy which exists in different interchangeable forms. Energy has a wave aspect to it and it can certainly transfer information from one point to another upon release (eg : radio waves do transfer information from one point to another ). So there is every possibility that consciousness energy can be transferred from one life form to another( the geller effect ) 5. “…Rebirth, Buddhist or Hindu Versions are just beliefs. Of course, there is a difference between the Permanent Soul, Atman of Hinduism, and no soul, Anatta, of Buddhism. However, both are beliefs….” Of course these are beliefs. That’s why I said reincanation is compatible IN THEORY to the energy hypothesis in science. As there is NO scientific proof for metaphysics we can only theoretize. For instance GOD is a theory ( no proof). Is there experimental proof ? NO. Does that mean God does not exist. No experimental proof to prove that God does not exist either. It is just belief / faith. 6. :”My Question: Is Buddhism a Philosophy or a Religion? ..” What does it matter what name you give it. As far as I am concerned it is a “belief system.” You can call it whatever you like (religion . philosophy). The substance is what matters. I know religion has a different connotation as opposed to philosophy. But this is just semantics at play. The fact is that scientific or verifiable evidence will never be available to explain all universal phenomena and therefore we can sometimes only analyze which metaphysical theories closely approximate known scietific theory and SOME PARTS of Buddhist theory do come very close to accepted scientific theory.

            American Mama
            July 15, 2014 at 8:49 pm
            Reply

            • 2
              1
              American Mama Thanks for your response, 1. Only the Native Veddah, First to arrive and discover are the Natives. all the others are Paras. The Problem is with the Sinhala Paras, who lie, and have their own Myths. such as JHU and Mahawansa lues. 2. Energy and information are two separate things. Metaphysical or not needs good support. Example Heliocentric model. Cannot hide under reincarnation and karmic energy. Fundamental particles were postulated and observed. You are mixing up your Buddhist Dhamma beliefs, and try to justify it, based on your faith. 3. Missing 4. Yes, energy is interchangeable, but it does not lead to life. For that you need materials, matter. Then it has to be transformed. 5. Yes, Rebirths are just beliefs. Therefore it leads to religion. Metaphysics or not, religion is belief without proof. 6. Buddhism is a religion. It promises afterlife. It has monks. It has statues, It has monk offerings etc. It stats religions riots led by monks. Philosophers do not do that. atheists and agnostics don’t do that. They do not destroy others religious places. They do not start religions riots like in Sri Lanka, destroying churches and mosques. Native Veddah do not do that. So, Buddhism is based on beliefs and Myths. No proof, not scientific. One needs to be brainwashed to believe all that Rebirth and Karmic Energy from a very young age, so that when they grow up, will not discard the myths, because of the early brainwashing. The guy in the video drives it home, as to what Buddhism is compared to the other religions. No different. Buddhism The Great Evil — Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNOfTGSADdY Buddhism The Great Evil — Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clcs2PSze0I

              Amarasiri
              July 16, 2014 at 3:05 am
              Reply

              • 0
                2
                Mr Amarasiri 1. Para also means foreign/outsider. For the Sinhala everyone else including veddhas are “para.” Nature is such that more progressive races or species always displace the less progressive races or species – native or otherwise. Happens all the time. It is just the way it is (Neo Darwinism). 2. You made a mistake in assuming I am a Buddhist. I am a free thinker. Fundamental particles will have even more fundamental ones waiting to be discovered :)The hadron collider is idling these days. You are too hung up on Science. Another big mistake. 3. ?? ‘ 4. Life is matter aka material. In fact the whole universe is energy aka matter. At this stage I have to unfortunately question whether your background is in science or NOT. I trust you to give me an honest answer. 5. Not only religion even science cannot provide proof for metaphysical phenomena. As I said the theory of God cannot be either proved or disproved with scientific methods. Even Hawkings is in trouble trying to define God these days 6. Whether Buddhism is a religion or not is debatable. But does not concern me. Afterlife ?? Maybe true ; Maybe not . I wont expect science to resolve that for sure. Atheists agnostics and even those who don’t believe anything at all , are all human and do not have perfect knowledge. They all cling to their own belief whatever it is without ever knowing that they themselves could be wrong. And as a human you are included in that category Maybe you should ponder on that fact. Even scientists are correct only on a limited number of things ( I should know. Spent over 30 years in scientific research in some of the best institutions ) I feel like I got the tiger by the tail by opening up a debate that is spiralling out of control into politics ! Maybe we should stick to theoretical differences/similarities between energy transfers and reincarnation (not REBIRTH) instead of going in circles ??

                American Mama
                July 16, 2014 at 5:53 pm
                Reply

                • 2
                  1
                  American Mama 1. Native Veddah were the First. They get to call who the Paras are, those from South India who came later. 2. “You made a mistake in assuming I am a Buddhist. I am a free thinker.” Good that makes you free from early childhood brainwashing. It was the Karmic force, that made me deduce that you are a Buddhist. It it does not matter, because facts and evidence is independent of beliefs. 3. Missing 4. “Life is matter aka material. In fact the whole universe is energy aka matter. At this stage I have to unfortunately question whether your background is in science or NOT. I trust you to give me an honest answer.” Of course E=MC squared. It was Energy, Electrons and protons that made the Matter, for life, including heavy elements made in Supernovas. The life we are talking about needs matter ALREADY made. If You take the Energy, and to transform to matter, it takes a lot of Energy. The rebirth and Karmic Energy will not do it. MetaPhysics, i.e. beyond Physics, is an umbrella term used to explain non-explainable things by those who cannot explain things. My background is in science and know sufficient physics, Chemistry, math, biology, philosophy, and comparative religion to understand real from imaginary, myths and illusions. 5. “Not only religion even science cannot provide proof for metaphysical phenomena. As I said the theory of God cannot be either proved or disproved with scientific methods. Even Hawkings is in trouble trying to define God these days” I have to agree, just because you cannot prove it, it is there or not there. Hawkins, can be wrong. Newton was wrong too, So was Galileo and many others. Scientists are skeptics. Religious people are believers. Atheists cannot prove the absence of God. Theists cannot prove the presence of God. Both have theories, hypotheses and meta-physics theories for their own version, and their scriptures too. 6. “Whether Buddhism is a religion or not is debatable. But does not concern me. Afterlife ?? Maybe true ; Maybe not . I wont expect science to resolve that for sure.” Science is skeptical. Science is very skeptical, that Buddhism is a philosophy. Science is very skeptical about Karmic energy. Science is very skeptical about Rebirth.Science is very skeptical about rebirth. However, science is not skeptical about evolution, because there is independently verifiable support. Buddhism is a Belief. The beauty of belief is that, you do not need evidence, only belief. Facts does not matter. So, Buddhism is a religion, like the others. It may not mean much to somebody who is not a believer, but it matters to a believer. In Sinhala it is called Buddha-Aagama, Buddha’s Religion.

                  Amarasiri
                  July 17, 2014 at 1:01 am
                  Reply

                  • 1
                    2
                    Mr Amarasiri 1. ” Native Veddah were the First. They get to call who the Paras are, those from South India who came later.” I wish you good luck with that. I really don’t care who calls who what. 2. “My background is in science and know sufficient physics, Chemistry, math, biology, philosophy, and comparative religion to understand real from imaginary, myths and illusions….” I am worried as these subjects are from totally different branches of science. I don’t intend to be rude but can I ask you whether you possess a basic or an advanced degree (Masters or a PhD) in any one or more of these fields ? This is just to gauge at what level we should conduct our discussion. 2. Both have theories, hypotheses and meta-physics theories for their own version, and their scriptures too. Can I ask you what kind of theory you subscribe to or are you simply against injustice in general ?

                    American Mama
                    July 17, 2014 at 5:09 am
                    Reply

                    • 1
                      1
                      American Mama 1. “I wish you good luck with that. I really don’t care who calls who what.” Amarasiri cares. Why? This problem is a para-Sinhala and Para-Buddhism problem, in the land of Native Veaadal that is the root cause of the conflict. So, the lies of Para-Sinhala from south India mist be busted. JHU, Sinhala Ravya and BBS must be exposed for their lies. Suggest you Post Amarasiri’s Poster all over the Land. https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/barbarism-of-sinhala-buddhist-extremist-forces-against-muslims/ 2. “I am worried as these subjects are from totally different branches of science. I don’t intend to be rude but can I ask you whether you possess a basic or an advanced degree (Masters or a PhD) in any one or more of these fields ? This is just to gauge at what level we should conduct our discussion. ” a) Science is not like a caste system, where one cannot cross boundaries. Science is open and skeptical. The core of science is the scientific method. Karmic Energy, Rebirth and a host of other religious Myths do not cut it with the scientific method. b) Top Ten Nobel Laureates without Doctorates http://www.sarahgreene.net/previous/hmsbeagle/html/content/58/xcursion/topten.htm Today’s scientists go to meetings and symposia armed with cards to distribute to colleagues, to make connections that may one day come in handy. Inevitably, the receiver’s eye is directed to the letters at the end of the name, to verify the qualifications of their new acquaintance. In both industry and academia, credentialism is the pervading qualifier. But what of the multitude of scientists who have excelled, to the highest levels of our respect, without that all-important doctorate? c) Michael Faraday did not even have an undergraduate degree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday Michael Faraday, FRS (22 September 1791 – 25 August 1867) was an English scientist who contributed to the fields of electromagnetism and electrochemistry. His main discoveries include those of electromagnetic induction, diamagnetism and electrolysis. Although Faraday received little formal education, he was one of the most influential scientists in history. It was by his research on the magnetic field around a conductor carrying a direct current that Faraday established the basis for the concept of the electromagnetic field in physics. Faraday also established that magnetism could affect rays of light and that there was an underlying relationship between the two phenomena.[1][2] He similarly discovered the principle of electromagnetic induction, diamagnetism, and the laws of electrolysis. His inventions of electromagnetic rotary devices formed the foundation of electric motor technology, and it was largely due to his efforts that electricity became practical for use in technology. d) So, does it really matter that Amarasiri has or does not have a Ph.D, in Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Biology, Engineering., Philosophy, Economics, meta-Physics, Theology, Law, Business or any other field? What matters are the Issues and questions raised by Amarasiri, and the different answers, different people give to the problem at hand. 3. “Can I ask you what kind of theory you subscribe to or are you simply against injustice in general ?” Promote the Truth, Bust and Expose lies and imaginations that cause havoc in the Land, and of course injustice sea and air. For the past 100 years mainly the Para-Sinhala Buddhists from South India have been causing injustice to other Para as well as to Native Veddahs and Veddhan, in the Land of Native Veddah ans Veddhan. a) The Theory I subscribe to is that Good People do Good things, bad people do Bad Things, to get good people to do bad things you need Religion, Myths and the Monks, Priests and Mullahs to sustain it, and spread myths as truths, such as Rebirth, Karmic Energy, Karmic Force, Samsara, Nirvana, Apaya, Purgatory, Limbo, Heaven Hell etc. Amarasiri subscribes to Egalitarianism and to equal opportunity to life and happiness unmolested by religious fanatics like mad Sinhalese Buddhist Monks and their followers, who believe in the lies and imaginations of Para-Monk Mahanama of Mahawansa notoriety. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism Egalitarianism (from French égal, meaning “equal”)—or, rarely, equalitarianism[1][2]—is a trend of thought that favors equality for all people. Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status, according to the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.[3] According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, the term has two distinct definitions in modern English.[4] It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights[5] or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralization of power. Some sources define egalitarianism as the point of view that equality reflects the natural state of humanity.[6][7][8]

                      Amarasiri
                      July 18, 2014 at 8:33 am

                  • 1
                    1
                    Mr Amarasiri 1. Don’t hold a candle for the veddahs. They are as evil as para-sinhala or anyone else & will kill you & your family in a New York minute if they had to. There are no good humans.Survival of the fittest. 2. WoW!! You did your homework.I don’t know about Faraday et al, But I sense that you sometimes don’t have the basics, especially in scientific philosophy. Here’s why (i) I presented a theoretical argument. ie: Buddhist reincarnation concept appears to be compatible with the scientific concept of energy. (ii) You countered by saying there is NO EXPERIMENTAL PROOF that energy can be tranferred from a dying life form to one being born. (iii) However What you don’t seem to realize is that in science a lack of experimental evidence does not DISPROVE a theoretical argument. It just means it hasn’t been PROVED. In scientific philosophy, To DISPROVE a theoretical argument one must provide EXISTING experimental data. Therefore unless YOU CAN COME UP WITH with a scientific experiment that conclusively PROVES that my argument is wrong it will STAND. ( Even Einstein’s theory was proved only several years later ) So far you have not cited a single experiment or paper that disproves my argument. An experiment which indicates that the null hypothesis of “there is No energy transfer between two life forms upon death” is true with a high statistical probability has to be provided. This falls within Physics (not metaphysics) Unless and until you can provide such experimental data you will not be able to DISPROVE my argument and I will not be able to PROVE it either. But theoretical papers are acceptable in science. Hope this clarifies the scientific approach. (3) You speak about truth. There is no agreement on the final truth even in science. My vacation will be over in a couple of days and I may not be able to find time to continue this much longer.

                    American Mama
                    July 18, 2014 at 6:07 pm
                    Reply

                    • 2
                      1
                      American Mama “Don’t hold a candle for the veddahs. They are as evil as para-sinhala or anyone else & will kill you & your family in a New York minute if they had to.” Have you heard of my people killing fellow human beings in the past? We do not have to kill anyone simply because we are not in competition with the rest of the people in this island. That is one reason my people prefer jungle to urban jungle. “There are no good humans.Survival of the fittest.” “It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.” ― Charles Darwin

                      Native Vedda
                      July 18, 2014 at 7:46 pm

                    • 0
                      1
                      Hi Native I know a couple of Veddhas who were pretty evil ( ie Tisahamy of Savage Sanctuary fame _- Dr R L Spittle. ). Anyways only a few genuine veddahs are left if at all (AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM :). Darwin was right. In nature, you manage change by killing those who try to change you. ( ie Lions kill hyenas because otherwise Hyenas will change the lions by eliminating them ) Take care and please do manage change AM

                      American Mama
                      July 18, 2014 at 8:38 pm

                    • 3
                      1
                      American Mama “Darwin was right. In nature, you manage change by killing those who try to change you. ( ie Lions kill hyenas because otherwise Hyenas will change the lions by eliminating them )” “It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.” ― Charles Darwin “Anyways only a few genuine veddahs are left if at all (AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM :).” My Elders tell me I am not one of them. Of course they have the right to say so. They have their valid reasons too. How dare you a non Veddah tell me that I am not one of them?

                      Native Vedda
                      July 18, 2014 at 9:17 pm

                    • 1
                      1
                      American Mama 2. “WoW!! You did your homework.I don’t know about Faraday et al, But I sense that you sometimes don’t have the basics, especially in scientific philosophy. Here’s why ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science Amarasiri has more than the basics of science and Scientific Pholosophy “(i) I presented a theoretical argument. ie: Buddhist reincarnation concept appears to be compatible with the scientific concept of energy. ” (a) The Ancients and Aristotle also presented theoretical arguments as to why the Sun Goes around a Fixed Earth. The deviations in the data were explained by using Theoretical EpiCycles. The Christian Church also had theological arguments( Theoretical) was to why the Sun goes around the Earth, such as Joshua stopping Sun for 24 hrs. Hindus and Buddhist had similar concepts about the Sun going around the Earth. These were all proved incorrect by Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler and Newton, even though 25% of the Americans probably including American mama who believes in Karmic Energy) and Europeans, and close to 40% of Asians too believe in the Ancient Theoretical Myth. c) “ii) You countered by saying there is NO EXPERIMENTAL PROOF that energy can be tranferred from a dying life form to one being born. (iii) However What you don’t seem to realize is that in science a lack of experimental evidence does not DISPROVE a theoretical argument. It just means it hasn’t been PROVED.: True, Experimental Proof is conformation of the Hypothesis or Theory.For Karmic Energy, even the ASSUMPTIONS the Karmic and Rebirth Theory are flawed. So, it is even justified on a theoretical basis. With many sound scientific theories, the assumptions were based on sound principles and even though the experimental confirmation later on, the Theory was based on a sound basis. Maxwell’s, Equations, Einsteins Theory of relativity, Thermodynamics, are all based on sound scientific foundations. The Karmic Theory and Rebirth is NOT based on SOUND basis. It is an outgrowth of the Hindu Beliefs, based on Upanishad beliefs. Such concepts include the doctrine of rebirth, the law of karma that regulates the rebirth process, and the techniques of liberation from the cycle of rebirth. So I reason that the karmic Energy and it’s beliefs, while some will try to wrap it in “Theory’ is Not based on sound principles, but based on beliefs and brainwashing. d) “So far you have not cited a single experiment or paper that disproves my argument.” You know why? Any scientist with common sense will not waste time writing about nonsense beliefs such as rebirth and karmic energy. Those who write about it are those brainwashed believers only, such as some brainwashed Buddhists. The Erosion of Progress by Religions Note: The Native Veddah were there First. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oxTMUTOz0w Neil deGrasse Tyson stops a religious troll (w/captions)-Karmic Energy and Rebirth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afGkv0IT4dU

                      Amarasiri
                      July 18, 2014 at 11:27 pm

                    • 0
                      1
                      Mr Amarasiri 1. Please don’t rely on wikipedia to argue science matters. You need accredited scientific journals like Nature, Science, The Cell etc.. 2. You say “…With many sound scientific theories, the assumptions were based on sound principles. ..” My assumptions are based on the SOUND scientific principle of ENERGY TRANSFER ( Laws of Thermodynamics). So where is your experimental evidence to counter it ? 3. You say “.. Maxwell’s Equations, Einsteins Theory of relativity, Thermodynamics, are all based on sound scientific foundations….” Like I said I am talking about THERMODYNAMICS as applied to the DEATH- BIRTH system 4. You say ” ..The Karmic Theory and Rebirth is NOT based on SOUND basis. ” For your information ENERGY itself is a pretty elusive term and does not have a SOUND basis ( ie. Scientists don’t know where it came from !!! ). So ENERGY and KARMA are in the same boat by your own words 5. You say ” ..Any scientist with common sense will not waste time writing about nonsense beliefs ..:” Energy transfer is a core scientific belief . So for the last time I must insist on seeing your EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE. YOU MUST PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR HOLD YOUR PEACE FOREVER

                      American Mama
                      July 19, 2014 at 2:23 am

                    • 1
                      1
                      American Mama July 19, 2014 at 2:23 am I had to respond here, because, the other thread stopped. 1. “Mr Amarasiri 1. Please don’t rely on wikipedia to argue science matters. You need accredited scientific journals like Nature, Science, The Cell etc.. ” Wikipedia is a summary, a convenience. Of course one needs to ho to original reviewed publication. Colombo Telegraph is not a scientific forum. It is a forum for religious Para-Sinhala Para-Buddhist, fanatics, Wahhabis, BBS Terrorists, Shills and a host of undesirable and desirable characters. ” 2. You say “…With many sound scientific theories, the assumptions were based on sound principles. ..” My assumptions are based on the SOUND scientific principle of ENERGY TRANSFER ( Laws of Thermodynamics). So where is your experimental evidence to counter it ? ” Energy Transfer in Physics is a well known Phenomenon. No Disagreement here. In energy transfer there is transmitter and a receiver. The disagreement is in Calling upon Death, or before Death Karmic Energy and saying that energy can give a new life. I do not know, and nobody knows other than taking a tissues, and cloning it. This again is the Hindu and Buddhist belief of rebirth and karma from 3,000 years ago when the Sun went around the earth belief times. Buddhists and Hindus try to justify it and say it is scientific. Pure Humbug. It is good preaching for those who know very little and cannot think. “3. You say “.. Maxwell’s Equations, Einsteins Theory of relativity, Thermodynamics, are all based on sound scientific foundations….” Like I said I am talking about THERMODYNAMICS as applied to the DEATH- BIRTH system” Can apply Thermodynamics to death and birth system,or any system, open or closed system, equilibrium or non-equilibrium. Still, Karmic Energy will not lead to a new life, It is just belief, originally Hindu, copied by Buddhists. “4. You say ” ..The Karmic Theory and Rebirth is NOT based on SOUND basis. ” For your information ENERGY itself is a pretty elusive term and does not have a SOUND basis ( ie. Scientists don’t know where it came from !!! ).” Energy and mass are related E= Mc squared. In a nuclear reaction, the energy comes from the transformation of mass, Sun does it every second. It can be measured in joules or ergs. Electric Energy can be transformed to electromagnetic radiation, by a light bulb. or a radio transmitted. Light energy can e transform to electricity, the Photo electric effect, which Einstein got his Nobel Prize by predicting based on sound scientific principles. Karmic energy is Promoted by half-baked Buddhists and half baked Hindus, with some scientific knowledge to justify the “truth” of Rebirth and reincarnation. It is like Aristotle’s epicycles, to justify the retro motion of Mars. “So ENERGY and KARMA are in the same boat by your own words” Energy can be measured and transformed. Not to life. karma is not energy, and cannot be reasoned and measured. It is just believers fantasy and belief, just belief, rebirth belief, to justify reincarnation and rebirth. ” 5. You say ” ..Any scientist with common sense will not waste time writing about nonsense beliefs ..:” ” Energy transfer is a core scientific belief . So for the last time I must insist on seeing your EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE. YOU MUST PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR HOLD YOUR PEACE FOREVER ” One Cannot get experimental evidence or reason well for somebody’s Illusions, religion or not. There is no proper scientific basis for Karma Energy and there is on reasonable theory based on good scientific principle that explains theoretically the karmic energy, and one cannot produce experimental evidence to support or debunk Illusions such as Karmic Energy, just because it is base is religion and belief. Your training in Biology an biochemistry is insufficient to understand these issues. You are confused by Buddhism and Hinduism rebirth myths. Amarasiri, the Egalitarian Agnostic American mama 1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/14/277058739/1-in-4-americans-think-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth-survey-says A quarter of Americans surveyed could not correctly answer that the Earth revolves around the sun and not the other way around, according to a report out Friday from the National Science Foundation. The survey of 2,200 people in the United States was conducted by the NSF in 2012 and released on Friday at an annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Chicago. To the question “Does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth,” 26 percent of those surveyed answered incorrectly. In the same survey, just 39 percent answered correctly (true) that “The universe began with a huge explosion” and only 48 percent said “Human beings, as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals.” Just over half understood that antibiotics are not effective against viruses. As alarming as some of those deficits in science knowledge might appear, Americans fared better on several of the questions than similar, but older surveys of their Chinese and European counterparts. Only 66 percent of people in a 2005 European Union poll answered the basic astronomy answer correctly. However, both China and the EU fared significantly better (66 percent and 70 percent, respectively) on the question about human evolution. In a survey compiled by the National Opinion Research Center from various sources, Americans seemed to generally support science research and expressed the greatest interest in new medical discoveries and local school issues related to science. They were least interested in space exploration, agricultural developments and international and foreign policy issues related to science.

                      Amarasiri
                      July 19, 2014 at 8:27 am

                    • 0
                      1
                      Mr Amarasiri I have to conclude because I have to go. Karma & rebirth are 2 different things. Karma is a universal law compatible with Newton’s 3rd law. Rebirth = thermodynamics. I am not confused by Buddhism. Even the Judeo-Christian theory of God has merit because these are beyond the scope of science. It has everything to do with keeping an open mind. You have closed your mind to everything except rationality. You are right about one thing. I made a mistake in opening up a scientific debate on CT. You did not understand my ” Energy is not on a sound basis” statement. The original source of Energy is unknown to science. I an afraid your “quest for justice” will NOT succeed. Why ? Because you are going up against NATURE and NATURE IS A BITCH that promotes EVIL. All the would be “do gooders” in the world including Buddha, Jesus, Ghandi et al went up against NATURE and failed. Evil has prevailed. The rest of the present day wannabe “do gooders’ too are up creek without a paddle Your friend Darwin understood this and called it the STRUGGLE FOR EXISTENCE and SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. It is alive and well in human society. Evil drives evolution. Do keep an OPEN MIND. Science certainly is not the be all and end all of knowledge. Nice talking to you. See you around.

                      American Mama
                      July 19, 2014 at 8:46 pm

  5. 5
    14
    EXCELLENT!!! Thanks Darshanie for exposing the age old myth and revealing the truth. From all what I have read and through my inner feeling I knew for a very long time that the so called tribes Yakkhas, Nagas, Rakshas, Devas, Asuras, Supannas and so on are all mythical creatures but this is the first time I am reading it crystal clear, with evidence and rational arguments, thanks for your extensive research on the subject. I don’t think anyone has ever put it quite like this. The best part is, even the Mahavamsa brands them as non-humans/supernatural beings. I enjoy reading your series of articles on Nagas (and other so called ancient tribes), please continue your good work. BTW, I also loved your creative title, going South and meeting the North.

    Mark
    July 13, 2014 at 9:19 pm
    Reply

    • 6
      1
      Mark “I also loved your creative title, going South and meeting the North.” If you travel long enough you will reach Antarctica, cross it and travel further to reach the North, Arctic. I don’t see any creative title. Oh you don’t mean that, you are just pulling her leg, Aren’t you?

      Native Vedda
      July 14, 2014 at 4:15 am
      Reply

      • 1
        2
        So Veddha doesn’t believe that the earth is flat, and thinks it is a globe? What sort of a Veddha believes that the earth is a globe? Not native! Read Hindu-Sanskrit cosmology (or as it appears in Tamil), and equally well Buddhist comsology. The earth is flat, with Mount Meru at its center. Above mount Meru you have the heavens and the abodes of the Brahma. Below the flat earth you have various Hells. Read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Hell and and it too tells you that hell is below the earth, and God The Father Thou art in Heaven which is above the flat earth. Going south and finding the North is not enough. You need to go down to the bowls of the earth to meet the guys down under, and climb Mt. Meru and see who is up there. The going-on the flat earth paradigm is exceeded by the ancient writers. The ONE BRILLIANT THING THAT Darshani R HITS UPON, QUITE BY HERSELF (BUT REMARKED UPON BY OTHERS BEFORE HER) IS THAT the Jathaka stories (and also the Mahavamsa) are part a genre of literature continued today as science fiction. Dharshanee R’s going south and finding northern idiom is still valid because there was an Uttara Desha and a Dhakshina Desha. She mentions the Alavaka Yaksha, and indeed there is an Alavaka land of the Kirat people, in North India. But then, right in Northern Sri lanka we have places names “Alavaka”, and Alavak-sri-kulam” (near Mannar), suggesting that those Kirat people had come south earlier on– perhaps much like Vijaya or other seafarers.

        Kautilya
        July 15, 2014 at 8:07 am
        Reply

        • 5
          1
          Kirat People and Alavaksrikulam Kautilya Alavaksrikulam?, in Mannar, I could not find this kulam from my sources. Could you elaborate this kulam brother? I hope it is not one those sudden name changes from Paranayankulam to Sapumalpura. Better example of paras in Northern province was People from JAVA lived in JAVAKACHERI; cheri meaning dwelling ( shanty dwelling in current terminology)

          ken robert
          July 16, 2014 at 11:55 am
          Reply

    • 6
      1
      That does go tie in with a Sinhala saying “Puken gihin Katin Enna wage” Courtesy: Lankan Folklore

      Matilda de Silva
      July 14, 2014 at 4:50 am
      Reply

  6. 7
    1
    This shows that not only the proto-history but even the pre-history of Sri Lanka is biased towards North India and its myth. This may be because Buddhism came from there. It has been trying to minimize the Southern native component of the Lankan culture by trying to maximize on an imaginary North Indian component. To create the Sinhala-Buddhist society in Sri Lanka, the Mahavihara monks have imagined/visualized not only a mass ‘Aryan migration’ from North India during the proto-historic period but also the North Indian mythical beings as the natives of the pre-historic period. This myth created the foundation for the authoritative history of the island, conditioning the minds of the people from generation to generation and it still continues to the future generation.

    Suresh
    July 13, 2014 at 9:59 pm
    Reply

    • 3
      1
      Suresh That is called mahavamsa doctrine Sinhala buddhism is the most important religion, others are aliens, kallathonis or marakalayas There is no theravada buddhism present apart from srilanka, therefore theravada buddhism needs to be protected by killing others, looting other peoples properties because looters are lazy racists. Disclaimer. The above hate speech is not my feelings, views or opinion and I do not want to spread racial hatred

      ken robert
      July 14, 2014 at 6:53 am
      Reply

      • 3
        0
        Ken Here is something that may be of interest to you: CATALOGUE OF THE SINHALESE MANUSCRIPT in the Library of THE WELLCOME INSTITUTE for the History of Medicine By K D SOMADASA http://wellcomelibrary.org/content/documents/printed-catalogues/catalogue-of-the-sinhalese-manuscripts.pdf

        Native Vedda
        July 15, 2014 at 2:21 am
        Reply

        • 2
          1
          Native Thank you for this very interesting text. I remember discussing it with you in previous columns, Obviously this is beyond my comprehension as the text itself is in Pali. Spread of buddhism in India is a fascinating topic touching all aspects of history. By the way I was reading on Mahmud of Ghazni,who I think, a war criminal as far as Indian history is concerned, destroying the ancient cities of Indians, buddhist and hindu temples.

          ken robert
          July 17, 2014 at 5:21 am
          Reply

          • 2
            1
            Ken I am sorry to give you more homework here is something that may be of interest to you: The Sri Lankan Personal Genome Project: an overview published by V. H. W. Dissanayake et al. / Sri Lanka Journal of Biomedical Informatics 2011; 2(1):4-8 http://www.sljol.info/index.php/SLJBMI/article/download/3711/3073 A Genetic Study of the Veddas and the Sinhalese by S. B. ELLEPOLA* Pathologist, General Hospital, Badttlk and EUGENE R. WIKRAMANAYAKE Department of Anatomy, University of. Peradeniya dl.nsf.ac.lk/bitstream/1/7166/2/CJMS-29(1)-1.pdf Sarabjit S. Mastana. “Molecular Anthropology: Population and Forensic Genetic Applications.” Anthropology Today: Trends, Scope and Applications, Anthropologist Special Volume No. 3 (2007) guest-edited by Veena Bhasin and M. K. Bhasin S. S. Papiha, Sarabjit S. Mastana, C. A. Purandare, R. Jayasekara, and R. Chakraborty. “Population genetic study of three VNTR loci (D2S44, D7S22, and D12S11) in five ethnically defined populations of the Indian subcontinent.” Human Biology 68:5 (October 1996) G. N. Malavige, T. Rostron, S. L. Seneviratne, S. Fernando, S. Sivayogan, A. Wijewickrama, and G. S. Ogg. “HLA analysis of Sri Lankan Sinhalese predicts North Indian origin.” International Journal of Immunogenetics 34:5 (2007) Vajira H. W. Dissanayake, Victoria Giles, Rohan W. Jayasekara, Harshalal R. Seneviratne, Noor Kalsheker, Fiona Broughton Pipkin, and Linda Morgan. “A study of three candidate genes for pre-eclampsia in a Sinhalese population from Sri Lanka.” The Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology Research 35:2 (April 2009): pages 234-242. First published online on November 12, 2008. Vajira H. W. Dissanayake, Lakshini Y. Weerasekera, C. Gayani Gammulla, and Rohan W. Jayasekara. “Prevalence of genetic thrombophilic polymorphisms in the Sri Lankan population–implications for association study design and clinical genetic testing services.” Experimental and Molecular Pathology 87:2 (October 2009): pages 159-162. First published electronically on July 8, 2009. Ruwan J. Illeperuma, Samudi N. Mohotti, Thilini M. De Silva, Neil D. Fernandopulle, and W. D. Ratnasooriya. “Genetic profile of 11 autosomal STR loci among the four major ethnic groups in Sri Lanka.” Forensic Science International: Genetics 3:3 (June 2009) Mikiko Soejima and Yoshiro Koda. “Denaturing high-performance liquid chromatography-based genotyping and genetic variation of FUT2 in Sri Lanka.” Transfusion 45:12 (December 2005) Mikiko Soejima and Yoshiro Koda. “Population differences of two coding SNPs in pigmentation-related genes SLC24A5 and SLC45A2.” International Journal of Legal Medicine 121:1 (January 2007) G. K. Kshatriya. “Genetic affinities of Sri Lankan populations.” Human Biology 67:6 (December 1995) Toomas Kivisild, Siiri Rootsi, Mait Metspalu, S. Mastana, K. Kaldma, J. Parik, Ene Metspalu, M. Adojaan, H.-V. Tolk, V. Stepanov, M. Gölge, E. Usanga, S. S. Papiha, C. Cinnioglu, R. King, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Peter A. Underhill, and Richard Villems. “The genetic heritage of the earliest settlers persists both in Indian tribal and caste populations.” American Journal of Human Genetics 72:2 (February 2003) S. Sengupta, L. Zhivotovsky, R. King, S. Mehdi, C. Edmonds, C. Chow, A. Lin, M. Mitra, et al. “Polarity and Temporality of High-Resolution Y-Chromosome Distributions in India Identify Both Indigenous and Exogenous Expansions and Reveal Minor Genetic Influence of Central Asian Pastoralists.” The American Journal of Human Genetics 78:2 (2006) N. Saha. “Blood genetic markers in Sri Lankan populations?reappraisal of the legend of Prince Vijaya.” American Journal of Physical Anthropology 76:2 (June 1988): N. Saha. “Blood genetic markers in Sri Lankan populations?reappraisal of the legend of Prince Vijaya.” American Journal of Physical Anthropology 76:2 (June 1988)

            Native Vedda
            July 18, 2014 at 12:05 pm
            Reply

    • 2
      1
      Suresh “To create the Sinhala-Buddhist society in Sri Lanka, the Mahavihara monks have imagined/visualized not only a mass ‘Aryan migration’ from North India during the proto-historic period but also the North Indian mythical beings as the natives of the pre-historic period” This has been tested, and very easy to test again. Take the DNA in the bodies of Para-Sinhala, Para-Tamils, Para-Muslims, and other Paras, and compare with their South Indian, East Indian and West Indian Natives and that of Native Veddah, both the Sinhala speaking and Tamil Speaking. It will show that the Para-Sinhala are are Sinhala speaking Para-Tamils from South India, their Native Land. Para- here means Foreign to Lanka, as they are from India. Buddhism and Hinduism as well are Para-religions.They are NOT Superior to any other religion, but worst than Atheism, Agnosticism and the ancestral worship of the Native Veddah, as all the are egalitarian beliefs. It is Buddhism, rather Para-Monk Mahanama Buddhism , that is the Curse of Lanka, the Land of Native Veddah, or Veddhn. The Veddah Tribe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f89NuukY32U Tamil-speaking Veddas of Vaharai await war recovery support https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeFCuZwexRw Mahawnasa lies and imaginations an insult to Buddha Mahavamsa- An Insult To The Buddha! https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/mahavamsa-an-insult-to-the-buddha/

      Amarasiri
      July 15, 2014 at 8:59 pm
      Reply

  7. 13
    3
    I was under the impression CT is not for fictional stories ! But I believe CT has made an exception in the case of D Ratnawalli, when country is in chaos, when the populace are undergoing untold hardships, sometimes D.R. stories can be a blessing in disguise for some of the CT readers. What business has Watson has during Lord Buddha’s time ? if it was Dr. Who, maybe I can accept it as one of those Time Travels. It’s confusing did Watson have sex with of the Yakshanis ? is that how Gandasara was born ? but when you look at Gandasaras ugly face it’s hard to imagine he has any link with Watson (I am assuming Yakshanis is sex bomb) if not who would want to have sex with a Yakshani. We’ll wait for D.R next story to figure it out, provided we can pick up the essence by browsing through 10-15 words. Just having some fun, Ramdan end is near mind is bit weak. Feeling sad also of whats going around in the world. Poverty, Distribution and death is what one hear. Sri Lanka is plunging deeper in to darkness. I hear CBK may run as common candidate on single point candidate. I don’t mind having her as 1 term president given current atmosphere . At least that’s some good news.

    Afzal
    July 13, 2014 at 11:19 pm
    Reply

  8. 9
    1
    The offsprings of the so called creatures in the south are making mayhem and havoc in your beautiful country Srilanka.

    charley
    July 13, 2014 at 11:31 pm
    Reply

  9. 12
    2
    What’s this crazy woman babbling on about now?

    Piranha
    July 14, 2014 at 1:00 am
    Reply

  10. 13
    1
    Darshanie, Grow up and stop harping on and on, about the old myths which Rational Minded Humans discarded long ago! People who believe that the Earth is Flat, and that the Sun moves round the Earth still exist, and cannot be converted by Science.

    Rationalist
    July 14, 2014 at 2:35 am
    Reply

    • 0
      2
      Rationalist: Do rationalists believe quantum mechanics or Spring -theories ?

      JimSofty
      July 16, 2014 at 7:01 am
      Reply

      • 3
        1
        JimSofty “Do rationalists believe quantum mechanics or Spring -theories ?” There is no such theory as Spring -theories, it is string theory. In North Africa they tried Arab spring, ended up in Black hole, dominated by a*****les like your clan. There have been new developments in physics since you first heard about Albert Einstein and Newton. You missed loop-quantum gravity, Quantum Field Theory, super string theory, and M theory, cosmic inflation and theory of everything. Cern is experimenting many new ideas. They may even discover more than god’s particle. Please stick to your big bigoted theories.

        Native Vedda
        July 16, 2014 at 12:59 pm
        Reply

        • 4
          0
          Navete,, You missed of the G-String theory which Darshanie may comfortably understand.

          Vijitha Papa
          July 17, 2014 at 8:18 pm
          Reply

          • 3
            0
            Vijitha Papa “You missed of the G-String theory which Darshanie may comfortably understand.” It looks like you broke a G string f*****ing A minor.

            Native Vedda
            July 19, 2014 at 3:19 am
            Reply

  11. 2
    0
    Beautifully crafted tales to keep any man awake; myriad beings, taking pleasure, oozing sex, women gobbling men. Steady on, Senhora! Only thing is your old stiff Watson turns up at intervals to turn me off.

    Spring Koha
    July 14, 2014 at 4:40 am
    Reply

  12. 2
    1
    “All these southern key scenes center in ‘Tambapanni’, a synonym for Lanka” Is this a nocturnal musing from a Nagawalli or Cunning ploy from the sith lord Thuppahi? Here is what could be discerned of ‘Tambapanni’. This name gets mentioned first in Mahavamsa as the place that bore the footprints of mythical Vijaya. Prior to creation of Mahavamsa, there was a river in the shores in India directly opposite to landing of Vijaya. This river was known as Tamiraparani in Tamil Nadu. This needs further research, perhaps future analysis of satellite imagery could establish the tributaries of this ancient river. Satellite imagery made it possible in establishing the existence of ancient sarasvati river mentioned in vedic texts. “The absence of the term “sangha” in TN caves contrasting with its almost compulsive mention in SL caves is a clinching evidence for excluding Buddhists from the TN corpus:-(Subbarayalu, “Early Historic Tamil Nadu”; 2009” I agree Tamil Nadu or kingdoms of chera chola pandya were bastions of Hinduism and Jainism. However there has been several rivers under the bridge. Buddhism having originated from north India (Patali Putra) could have reached Srilanka by sea or via anthra land of chalukyas. The Evidence of south Indians in spreading buddhism is seen in Angkor wat in cambodia to bodhidharma’s contributions to zen buddhism,in comparison to theravada buddhism which was looked down upon by orients calling it Hinayana or inferior. The preoccupation with indo aryan mythology, false pride on the premise that sinhalese language’s antiquity before the christian era, and a recalcitrant attitude to decant the strong south indian genetic, linguistic and cultural connections of by some moda Srilankan historians needs condemnation.

    ken robert
    July 14, 2014 at 6:26 am
    Reply

    • 1
      1
      Ken Here is the introduction to S. P. Udayakumar’s article on Hindian Saffron clad thugs. I see parallel between the Hindian and Lankan varieties. Historicizing Myth and Mythologizing History: The ‘Ram Temple’ Drama “Ayodhya had better be seen as a theater where the mythical lore are translated into modern metaphors, and the metaphorical translations are transformed into various but related action projects. Having invoked a communal understanding of ‘national history,’ established its validity by back projecting it onto a popular story, and mobilized their adherents through insidious political manoeuvres, the Hindu communalists have set the stage for the actual enactment of their drama. At this crucial juncture, the ideology, the ideologues, and their cherished dream come together. This potent mix occupies the centre stage and the whole drama begins to revolve around it. The name of the drama is Ram Temple. For most of the preindependence era, the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya did not simply exist for the majority of Indians. The mosque emerged as the most bitterly contested terrain ever since the partition of the country primarily because the issue was built up carefully by the Hindutva forces with an eye on appropriating it for contemporary politics. The controversy is more mythological than historical, and hence it is a matter more of faith than fact. Since the issue stands on popular culture and not on recorded history, it becomes even more prone to manipulation and politicization. The Hindutva groups have turned the disadvantages of unspecificities and ambiguities of the legendary problem into clear advantages. The conflict cannot be considered more concrete even from 1528 when the Babri Masjid was actually constructed because the Hindutva groups claim that the mosque replaced an existing Ram temple for which there has never been any tangible evidence.” S. P. Udayakumar Source: Social Scientist, Vol. 25, No. 7/8 (Jul. – Aug., 1997), pp. 11-26 The article can be accessed on http://www.sacw.net/DC/CommunalismCollection/ArticlesArchive/spuk.html

      Native Vedda
      July 15, 2014 at 6:43 pm
      Reply

  13. 3
    2
    I’d like to bang her! Good looking tart!

    jangjang
    July 16, 2014 at 11:22 pm
    Reply

    • 4
      1
      jangjang “I’d like to bang her! Good looking tart!” She is a child.

      Native Vedda
      July 17, 2014 at 4:49 am
      Reply

    • 1
      1
      JangJang Go to this site see for your self and decide whether you still want to execute your plans or not. http://ratnawalli.com/category/gallery/ To: DR I suggest to put out some more pics some here are yearning for more, mostly because there is no clear verdict.

      Afzal
      July 17, 2014 at 11:35 am
      Reply

  14. 0
    2
    Good piece of writing again. Thanks Darshanie. You made my day.

    Aman
    September 6, 2014 at 11:20 am
    Reply

Leave a Reply

Comments should not exceed 300 words. Embedding external links and writing in capital letters are discouraged. Comment approval may take up to 24 hours. Please read our Comments Policy for further details.
Your email address will not be published.