1 November, 2020

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The Politics Of Kishani Jayasinghe

By Izeth Hussain

Izeth Hussain

Izeth Hussain

Probably Kishani Jayasinghe will say that she has no politics at all. She is an opera singer by profession, indeed by vocation, which requires much time and unceasing effort, leaving no space in her life for engagement or even interest in politics. She therefore leaves politics alone. But she realized on February 4 that while she may want to leave politics alone politics won’t leave her alone. That is not the consequence of her being a celebrity. It is the fate of all of us who have to cope with modernity that politics will not leave us alone. That is why there have been so many articles and letters to the editor about the fate that befell her on February 4, including one by Kishani J herself. All of them have focused on the politics of what happened on February 4, more particularly on the question of the alleged outrage to national sentiment in her operatic rendering of Dunno Budunge.

That focusing on the alleged outrage to national sentiment is, of course, of primary importance, but here I want firstly to focus on the significance of what happened in the perspective of the process of revolutionary change that is a marked characteristic of modernity. The usual notion of revolution is a violent upheaval with mass participation, in the course of which the locus of power shifts from one segment of society to another. Such were the English Puritan Revolution of the 1640s, the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, and the Chinese Revolution. Such revolutions are rare in history but the process of revolutionary change can take place without violent mass upheavals. Most of Europe rejected the ideology of the French Revolution and they successfully resisted violent change but in the course of the next decades it was found that that ideology had shaped the polities of most West European countries.Kishani Jayasinghe

In the twentieth century the process of revolutionary change became much more accelerated than in the past, and it applied to the totality of life including cultural manifestations such as pop music. It is relevant to consider some of the changes in the sphere of Western pop music. KJ’s alleged offense was to have taken John de Silva’s pop song, which had acquired iconic status as a much-loved folk song, and given it an operatic rendering. That is not something over which any eyebrows would be raised in the West. The folk-song died out in the West in the early decades of the last century but the best of the pop songs of the period after the First World War – I have in mind those of Gershwin, Cole Porter, and Jerome Kern in particular – have survived, are vigorously kicking, and have acquired the status of the folk songs of the urban West. The point I am getting to is that the original forms of those songs are not regarded as sacrosanct but are subjected to varying interpretations, and that seems to be a fairly recent development. Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, and Sinatra sang those songs more or less straight, but more recent versions can be highly eccentric, including those of the great Sarah Vaughan. Sometimes those songs are given operatic treatment. The only question should be whether the new versions are good or bad as music. I find Kiri Te Kanawa’s operatic rendering of Cole Porter’s haunting So in Love very beautiful, but Placido Domingo’s operatic version execrable for being too emphatically operatic. I found KJ’s Dunno Budunge beautiful on a second and third hearing.

Old-timers who are also music-lovers will find by turning to You tube music that the classical music they loved in the old days can today be mauled, mercilessly mauled, murdered, for instance by the phenomenally gifted Lang Lang who frequently uses the piano as a weapon for assassination. The West finds that acceptable partly because Lang Lang is sometimes superb and more importantly because outrageous new interpretations are part of the ongoing total revolutionary process that is integral to modernity. So KJ’s operatic rendering would be acceptable in the West and also at the Lionel Wendt, but – as has come to be widely recognized – the occasion of the National Day celebrations at Galle Face Green was the wrong milieu for it. There the sense of the nation as sacred predominated, and the manifestation of revolutionary change jarred in that milieu. So, KJ’s operatic rendering caused outrage.

All that is understandable, but why was the outrage on such a stupendous scale? How stupendous we know only now after KJ’s Sunday Island article of March 6 in which she declared that she had received as many as 500,000 emails. The underlying explanation is that just as the moon has a dark side, so has the island paradise. The explanation at an overt level is that we in Sri Lanka are living in interesting times – I have in mind the ancient Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times”. The January 8 Revolution isn’t working too well, and the best that we can expect it seems is a slow melioration of our miseries. Possibly more than half the Sri Lankan people are having a difficult time making ends meet, and there are fears of a Greek-style economic melt-down. Hardly any one expects a facile solution to the ethnic problem, in which connection there is deep resentment over what looks like foreign dictation. There has been a veering away from China and a corresponding increase in what looks like Indian Vice-Regal bullying. In brief, this is a time in which there is a heightened sense of the nation being in peril, and that is probably the major part of the explanation for the outrage provoked by what looked like the intrusion of the alien Western into the realm of the national sacred.

KJ acknowledges in her article that the stupendous negative reaction has been for her a searing experience that can be expected to leave a permanent scar on her psyche. Could that benefit her? It is known that adversity can spur positive achievements. I hold that one of the major reasons why Sri Lanka’s performance since 1948 has been so far below potential is that we got independence without a struggle worth speaking about, an independence that was preceded by a hundred years of peace marred only by the brief anti-Muslim riots of 1915. It is known that at the individual level adversity can sometimes spur achievement. Hemingway wrote in That Dangerous Summer that Ordonez, the greatest bull-fighter of his time, improved on his superlative artistry with every goring that he received. He also wrote, elsewhere: “A writer is forged in injustice as a sword is forged”, a great sentence for which alone Hemingway deserves classic status. KJ has experienced the injustice of the world at full blast. Will that make her empathize with ordinary suffering humanity, and will that make her not just an internationally successful opera singer, not the proverbial temperamental diva, rich, fat, and intolerable, but a great singer, a true daughter of Sri Lanka of whom we can be really proud?

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Latest comments

  • 14
    2

    This is a well written piece by Iseth Hussein. As he pithily puts it, politics cannot leave even a singer alone if she touches a nerve in the social fabric of a society-in this case the Sinhalese Buddhist community. This is what KJ and other artists must know. We play for an audience and the latter’s reception depends on a number of complicated dynamics. In this case, KJ tried to Westernize a song that was deeply set in Hundusthan ragadhari tradition that Sinhale people have adopted over the years. It is a song where melody and lyrics are meant to generate compassion, patriotism, and above all bhakthi or devotion. KJ’s version rang counter to these audience expectations. My objection to KJ’s performance of this song isn’t,however, cultural but aesthetic because her operatic rendering does not evoke any feeling or emotion in the audience. She is a great singer but not her song

    • 5
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      I listened to Hundusthan ragadhari classical music. Now do these sound anything like Danno Budunge?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtXBm8tdusQ

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nK23MCbTRk

      • 0
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        Yea, people are UNAWARE of the ORIGINAL Vishvanath Laugi version;

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xn6ViFDQJs

        They defend the FAMOUS Church Hymn influenced Deva Suriyasena version (son of the Great James Peiris), which is the basis for all subsequent versions from Rukmani Devi, Mohidin Beg to Pt Amaradewa (my favourite);

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ds_CMOa3J8

        As a Jazz fan, Female (‘hooting’) Opera is not my cup of tea, but prefer male opera to most jazz singing. Saying that, Kishani Jayasinghe makes a good rendition of Amazing Grace;
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1KVncZqSsE

        OPERA IS A ACQUIRED TASTE & WESTERN OPERA IS NOT THE ONLY TYPE, YET TO HAVE A FALSE SENSE OF PRESERVING WHAT IS ‘LOCAL’ IS UNTRUE & DISHONEST.

        • 0
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          Elle to Cricket,

          How do you know this is was done by Vishvanath Laugi? Is there any article or valid documentation on this? It could have come from the heart of Sinhala folksong?

          Who is Vishvanath Laugi? Was he an Indian? None of India’s traditional songs have much of a tune to them. They are abstract and of some hallucinatory quality.

    • 3
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      Shyamon Jayasinghe

      “As he pithily puts it, politics cannot leave even a singer alone if she touches a nerve in the social fabric of a society-in this case the Sinhalese Buddhist community.”

      Yes, this is a well written piece by Iseth Hussein on the KJ cultural “controversy”, and the Western Cultural Invasion, yet. May be KJ should have tried one of the songs from Maname.

      Yes, good singer. Unfortunately, the incorrect song was selected. To add insult to injury, it was Westernizing of Budunge, Buddha, in a country that was under 450 years Western Colonialism and hegemony, now impinging on the reverence of even Buddha.

      I wonder how Sinhala Buddhists would have reacted if KJ sang, another Buddha related song, like Buddan Saranan Gachchami-Mohideen Beg in the same style?

      Danno Budunge – Mohideen Beg

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0fj9b-ggRw

      Buddan Saranan Gachchami _ (Original) Mohideen Beg _ New Sinhala Songs 2013 – 2014

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJjj3hsahyU

    • 3
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      Izeth Hussain and Shyamon Jayasinghe

      Let’s see what somebody who is close to Jishani Jayasinghe had to say, her husband. The Lyrics are the same, the style is of course, Italian, Western, which is still not acceptable today, because of western Imperialism and the Christianity that followed it.

      A letter from Kishani’s husband.
      —————————————
      Dear Friends,

      Thank you deeply for your tremendous support for Kishani in response to the highly politicized criticisms of her operatic rendition of Danno Budunge.
      Kishani is a Buddhist; this is not something which she keeps on her head to show others, but follows with her heart, respecting all religions. So those who say that she Christianized a traditional Sinhala song, despite singing it in the same melody with the exact original lyrics written by John De Silva, who happens to be related to her, is ingenuous. As for her political beliefs, unlike me she’s very private about them, other than advocating for greater female representation in the Sri Lankan parliament, which currently is less than 5%.

      Singing a song in opera does not make it Western or Christian, if that was so everything written or said in English or Italian should be considered as such. Singing a Sinhala song in opera is not an insult to the Sinhala language, yet some people seem to think so. I have seen many asking why this is so, but failed to see a proper response. Apparently to some Sinhala music should be restricted to lower voice registries.

      People who try to find fault, say that Danno Budunge should only be sung in its original form. However, there is plethora of evidence shared by those willing to actually check facts before making a statement, that this song has metamorphosed since it was first sung back in 1903. Pandit Amaradeva’s version is far different from Hurbet Rajapaksa’s version, and yet again different from Rukmani Devi’s version. Kishani’s version has only breathed new life to this beloved Sinhala song. Google trends shows that the search for ‘Danno Budunge’ is at its highest ever since she sang it.

      Some say that it should not have been sung at Independence Day, for the Independence Day is a time to showcase Sri Lankan talent. Yet, here we have, a Sinhala Buddhist woman, the former Head Prefect of Sri Lanka’s leading Buddhist Girls’ school Viskha Vidyalaya, who has mastered a revered and exalted form of singing – Opera, who has gained international fame and recognition, who sang a beloved Sinhala song in opera, wearing a traditional saree, in gold and maroon nonetheless, in dignified demeanor, meaningfully and respectfully, is vilified by a segment of her very same people, for petty political reasons, which has nothing to do with her.

      One has to wonder, are we truly independent? When will our mental shackles be finally removed?

      With all this focus on her rendition of Danno Budunge, many are perhaps unaware that Kishani sang 6 songs that evening; Danno Budunge, Matara Gange, Doiya Baba, Badagini Wela, Namo Mariane, and her composition in English set to the music of Puccini’s Nessum Dorma, which she ended with the words ‘It’s time to soar, time to soar, time to soar!’, and soar she will, thanks to all of you.

      with love
      Kaveenga (husband of Kishani)

      PS. As you may have realized, Kishani has been silent about this whole incident. All the posts on this page [Kaveenga’s Facebook page], including this, have been solely mine. She is never one to self promote herself. Even when I ask her as to how she feels, her response has been ‘as performing artists we are always creating and learning, trying new things, blame and fame are part of our life, this is the ‘ashta loka dhamma’ the Buddha taught.’

      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1129525297080363&id=213034795396089

      • 3
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        Thinking about the Reason for the Derana Reporter’s Outburst, I have come to the conclusion that this is the result of Envy and Jealousy by someone who does not have the Talent or the Ability to compete in the Wider World!

        It is the ‘Frog in the Well Stance’ taken by the Sycophants, who have come to the Top by Praising and Emulating the Mediocre Achievements of the Rajapakse Era.

    • 4
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      Izeth and Shyamon .

      With Kishani most are proud of her talents. Sri Lankans should be happy that a Sri Lankan has reached such heights in the world, in the arena of opera, not sung in Italian.

      However, it was a bad mistake to get her to sing Dhanno Budhunge in opera style. The lyrics which instill feeling in to the listener is lost in opera style singing of this beautiful song. Furthermore, many people to used to the song from many others in the traditional “Pirith” style. So, although her singing was great, but unaccepted by the majority Sinhala Buddhist audience, as foreign, another Western Imperialism, this time cultural, touching Buddha, as opera is only for a few in opera houses. Sri Lanka does not have that many opera houses, yet. The Fact that Kishani is Sinhala Buddhist, and attended a leading Sinhala Buddhist School, Vishaka, cannot overcome this cultural trespass for many.

    • 3
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      Izeth Hussain/Shyamon Jayasinghe

      RE:The Politics Of Kishani Jayasinghe

      Kishani is quite talented. It is rather unfortunate that she was thrown into this controversy.

      2010 Alumni Laureate Awards Kishani Jayasinghe

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beLg7ovlvZA

      Uploaded on Sep 23, 2010
      Highlights from the 2010 Alumni Laureate Awards at the University.

      These films were made by Rob Glass (Alumnus, Mechanical Engineering, 1988)
      http://www.coraclefilms.co.uk

    • 4
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      Shyamon Jayasinghe

      “My objection to KJ’s performance of this song isn’t,however, cultural but aesthetic because her operatic rendering does not evoke any feeling or emotion in the audience.”

      Though I reluctantly agree with you I still believe Kishani Jayasinghe should be allowed to exercise her right to artistic freedom, and encouraged her to experiment new styles and interpretation.

      There have been many different rendition of Vande Matram. You can see the differences among 4 clips:

      https://www.youtube.com/
      watch?v=qNfuMrBjzQY

      https://www.youtube.com/
      watch?v=F8wP2M1kbgA.

      Vande Mataram – Lata Mangeshkar

      https://www.youtube.com/
      watch?v=NjfxTxPBzlY

      AR Rahman – Vande Mataram

      https://www.youtube.com/
      watch?v=tA33yZ6ULVc

  • 3
    1

    Izeth Hussain

    RE: The Politics Of Kishani Jayasinghe

    .”But she realized on February 4 that while she may want to leave politics alone politics won’t leave her alone”

    “I hold that one of the major reasons why Sri Lanka’s performance since 1948 has been so far below potential is that we got independence without a struggle worth speaking about, an independence that was preceded by a hundred years of peace marred only by the brief anti-Muslim riots of 1915”

    What about the struggles since 1505 to expel the Portuguese, Dutch, and the British, even though ineffective? Finally it happened due to global events and regional events, Indian Independence, which gave the opportunity for Ceylon to gain independence.

    What you forget is the Mahawansa mentality, and the idea played by the Sinhala Buddhists that, except for the Para-Sinhala Buddhists, in the Land of Native Veddah Aethho,(Sri Lanka), ALL the other Paras, Para-Tamils, Para-Muslims, Para-Europeans, Para-Malays do not belong in the Land of Native Veddah Aethho, now relabeled Sinhala “Buddhist” Island, ignoring the real natives, Veddah Aethhos.

    The above is the main under current that was behind disenfranchising the India Tamils, The 1958 Sinhala Only Act and of Course the Separatist LTTE War.

    So, this made it harder to build a Sri Lankan Nation. The Sinhala Buddhists wanted a Sinhala Buddhist Nation.

    References:

    Mitochondrial DNA history of Sri Lankan ethnic people: their relations within the island and with the Indian subcontinental populations.

    Journal of Human Genetics (2014) 59, 28–36; doi:10.1038/jhg.2013.112; published online 7 November 2013

    http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html

    Through a comparison with the mtDNA HVS-1 and part of HVS-2 of Indian database, both Tamils and Sinhalese clusters were affiliated with Indian subcontinent populations than Vedda people who are believed to be the native population of the island of Sri Lanka.

    The Vedda Tribe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f89NuukY32U

  • 6
    2

    Sad that it was a searing experience for her. One would have thought that she was proud that she had taken it to another dimension of upliftment. It was sung so very beautifully. Better that it was sung Italian style so the music took on greater precision, than Hundusthan ragadhari style where its tune would have become mere undulations.

    • 1
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      Where can we find what she sang on Independence Dayplease?

      • 0
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        Gosh Punitham! All you have to do is go onto YouTube and type Danno Budunge.

      • 3
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        Punitham

        දන්නෝ බුදුන්ගේ (Danno Budunnge) by Kishani Jayasinghe. Recorded live at Galle Face, Colombo

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plaKsOtC3b8

        There are captions as well. So, if you do not know Sinhala, you know what the Lyrics mean.

        Published on Feb 5, 2016
        [Turn on captions for lyrics and meaning]
        A performance that sparked a nation wide debate and discussion about culture, the influence of politics and racial mindsets, the treatment of women in Sri Lanka, and ethical boundaries of journalism.

        Soprano Kishani Jayasinghe singing Danno Budunge in Sinhala, recorded live at the 68th Independence Day celebrations, Galle Face Green, Colombo, Sri Lanka.

        • 2
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          That’s quite beautiful Amarasiri . Thanks!

          • 3
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            ramona therese fernando

            Given below is the Traditional “Kavi” Version. It is easy to understand the lyrics here compared to Kishani’s “Opera” version, even though the “Opera” version is quite beautiful, if one knows how to appreciate.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIfa7DHhfI

            Danno Budunge sinhala song

            Published on Nov 3, 2013

            Says Attorney John de Silva lyrics for Siri Sangabo during 1903. First recorded in 1906 by Hubert Rajapaksa, Tower Hall Artist…

            • 1
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              Thanks Amarasiri.

              Yes, Sinhala music has a natural tendency for appealing melody. We can just as easily harmonize and symphonize our music in European style, but we prefer to keep it neutral in tone.

              Buddhism, being a religion of middle-path, prefers to remove excess in emotion towards the melody. Hence we subdue our melodies in Hundusthan Ragadhari style.

      • 3
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        Punitham

        The defilements….in the lyrics… BBS…

        There are three so-called defilements in Buddhist psychology that are typically translated into English as greed, hate, and delusion.

        These three defilements are derived from the Buddha’s formulation of the Four Noble Truths. In accord with the Buddha’s teaching and the evidence of my own experience, they comprise the source of most human suffering.

        Greed drives us to cling to or hoard the things we want, and hate drives us to avoid and resist what we don’t want.

        Delusion is the folly of thinking we can get what we want to the exclusion of what we don’t want. It’s an attempt to split up circumstances into categories of our own devising. But reality is not divisible in that way, and the irony of such a delusion resides in a failure to recognize that greed and hate are psychologically one and the same. My clinging to something I want is always in resistance to something I don’t want.

  • 0
    0

    SJ says: “This is what KJ and other artists must know.”

    Is it artists or artistes, Shyamon?

  • 1
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    The ugly response to this – in my opinion ill advised – attempt at an operatic rendering of this song may indicate all that the author of this opinion claims but to me it portrays very clearly what I see as the deepest core of the major part of the species – a deep and irrational commitment to violently elicit the conformity of all those within range of coercive power to the rule of personality with unaccountability, secrecy and impunity. I prefer transparent and accountable governance by process aimed at the realization of policies through the enactment of legislative and regulatory frameworks that respects individuality and punishes attempts to coercively and violently obtain conformity. This of course may be because I am mad, but that is how it is at the moment.
    I am aware that – as I have repeatedly been informed – it is a very small minority that perceives the world as I do and yet this movement towards process appears to be steadily progressing despite the opposition of the majority and there has been a constant movement towards the establishment and consolidation of process based systems of management and governance and resistance to this movement may lead to temporary blockages that lead to volatility when they are finally overcome.

    On the other hand the majority tries its best to move towards the establishment of personality based, arbitrary, violent and intimidatory regimes that at a personal level are steeped in abrasive aggression, plain bad manners, rowdiness and thuggery and the reign of the strong over the weak. This is what was seen in the ugly response to the attempt to translate the sentiments articulated through this song into the technical modalities of operatic rendition and this is what I have seen this country slip deeper and deeper into over the decades of my life. As I see things, this is all that “revolution” has ever put on offer, often leading to the torture and brutal murdering of millions.

    I am aware that there are many who wish to see such a “revolution” here on this island and that is the last thing that I want to see having seen attempts in this direction and their outcome on several occasions. The claim that it is a lack of a revolution that has led to the persisting lack of a credible developmental strategy and the ability work constantly towards its realization is one that I reject. On the contrary I maintain that it is the commitment to such a commitment to institutionalize arbitrariness and the rule of intimidation and a culture of aggression, rowdiness and thuggery coupled with a national average IQ of 79 which borders on mental retardation, that has prevented evolutionary civilized behavior and the development it makes possible.

    I am not trying to make out that civilization is an accomplishment. I am very much aware that it is very much a work in progress and that it can be made much better than it is. Towards this end if we have anything to offer we are free to feed our offerings into the mental processes of the species and build on what has been achieved or bring about transformation rather than try to tear down what has been built and rebuild from scratch according to our own fancy. To use the shortcomings of civilization to justify attempts to institute regimes based on arbitrariness and the rule of intimidation and a culture of aggression, rowdiness and thuggery is something that I oppose and have no wish to be party to and which refusal may have led to my current position which however I consider to be much better than to be party to the revolting barbarianism that results from revolution.

  • 4
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    Shyamon, You wrote: “In this case, KJ tried to Westernize a song that was deeply set in Hundusthan ragadhari tradition that Sinhale people have adopted over the years. It is a song where melody and lyrics are meant to generate compassion, patriotism, and above all bhakthi or devotion”.
    My Comments:
    1) Lyrics of Danno Budunge, a collection of some faulty Sinhala phrases, almost an insult to the genius of Sinhala language and poetry, is set into an existing tune: besides the words try to describe Anuradhapura with some reference to rahathun. How can this lyrics generate compassion, patriotism or devotion? You must be joking.
    2) The melody has an enduring appeal. There is evidence that the melody was based on an early composition by Felix Mendelssohn, (made probably around 1830)who subsequently used this for one of his “Songs without Words” which he composed between 1829-1845 ( Also Refer Arun Dias Bandaranayake’s recent posting in CT how the original melody was transported to Sri Lanka). Listen to Mendelssohn’s little piano piece- you will realise what is the real origin of the melody- unmistakable similarity.
    3) Your guru Sarachchandra who was lamenting that Danno Budunge (with his ragadhari beginnings?)has ended up in the Christian Church- got it all wrong in his interpretation of the song in his auto-biography. Looks like you are very much influenced by your guru’s nostalgia over the “fate” of the song.
    4) To me this controversy also shows the pathetic state of the musical appreciation of the Sri Lanka audiences and even the so called critics. The only valid point(as Izeth commented): Is it musically appropriate to sing this simple melody in a high pitch? Let the musicians and musicologists comment on the technicalities of this. There are so many renditions of Schubert’s Lieder ranging from baritone/ alto to soprano voices (from Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau to Kathleen Ferrier / Lotte Lehmann/ Schwartzkopf). All different but exceptionally good in my humble view. Not sure what voice range Schubert wrote the original score for?
    5) Jane Ramsbotham the daughter of the Governor General of Ceylon in 1948 or so, sang “Olu pipeela’ and Handapane” for a recording in her soprano voice which is available in Miyuru Gee Web site. She did this to show her appreciation of Sunil Santha and because she liked these songs very much even though she did not know the Sinhala language. She also recorded some vannam in her soprano voice. Whether these melodies were meant to be sung on a soprano scale is another point that musicologists must assess.
    6) Lastly it was the Sinhala Buddhist extreme racists (lamenting the Rajapakse downfall) who were trying to crucify Kishani. A Sinhala language lover would always have reservations about the quality of the lyrics. Kishani’s Sinhala diction was faultless. The song says nothing about Buddhism to offend any “genuine” Buddhist. Not sure why such an ado is made as if Danno Budunge is a Holy Gatha or a Stanza said to have been recited by Lord Buddha himself!!

    MJA

    • 0
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      MJA,

      Is Mendelssohn’s “song without words” the closest you can come to, to take away the Sinhala authenticity of Danno Budunge? Hardly alike at all, except for a similarity of genre that gives evocative memories.

      The lyrics is for song, and not for poetry. And it paints an amazing picture of Buddhism and Anuradhapura.

      • 1
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        ramona T,
        What Sinhala authenticity are you talking about?
        Here is a link (courtesy of Rajash) that might improve your ideas:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyOdDIPdqyo

        • 2
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          …..and Ilaiyaraaja thinking out of the box and took an iconoclastic approach made a beautiful composition using western orchestra.

          Imagine using a western orchestra for a Hindu Thevaram?

          So when it come to music throw away apprehension, tradition and authenticity and be bold.
          That is why Tamil Nadu musicians like Illaiyaraaja , Rahman are making impressions all over the world and winning oscars and other international awards and nomination

          What more my children now sing Sivapuraanam in the traditional way too

          • 2
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            Old Codger & Rajash

            Here is something that you will enjoy:

            A R Rahaman / Tamil songs – worldwide -Balle Lakka

            https://www.youtube.com/
            watch?v=w9Z2LL4s8tQ

            Coral Reef Cuda Chorus performs Balleilakka – 2011 Merrick Festival

            https://www.youtube.com/
            watch?v=dUhMQYW-xmk

            “Balleilakka” – Northern Lebanon Chamber Choir

            https://www.youtube.com/
            watch?v=jSJYVAB8XQU

            • 2
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              Native,
              Looks like all of us, dear Ramona T included are united in music!!

            • 1
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              N.V,
              I was expecting a Russian song done by Arabs, but found a Tamil song done by Americans.

            • 0
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              Native

              none of the URL is working for me

              • 0
                0

                It did for me.
                Try a Google search on it or going into YouTube
                Or just Google / YouTube search for Vande Mataram

        • 0
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          Oh…that was beautiful! Thanks Old Codger.

          However, it is still a very abstract sort of melody, and nothing like the original European music that have actual identifiable tunes. It’s a good diversification of musical styles..

          Danno Budunge comes from the heart of Sinhala folksong. It was sung, of course, without the European type harmonizing and symphonizing that is used today.

  • 0
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    [Edited out]

  • 5
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    Izzeth,
    Great going! I had the impression that you were more concerned with Islamic travails.It is interesting to see that you know and listen to such people as Lang Lang and Sarah Vaughn. I personally am a Sarah Brightman fan (another singer who pop-izes opera.
    I hope this doesn’t get you in trouble with the Islamists.

    • 1
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      What happened to Native Veddha? By golly, this codger still takes lessons – 0n subversion?

      • 1
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        Ping Pong,
        New ideas are subversive until they catch on.

    • 0
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      Ordinary people living in the vicinity of mosques get a rude awakening every morning when the Quran is blasted out through loud speakers.
      I wonder if these Quran chants can be mildly pop iced…to be bit milder to the ears

      Izeth do you have. Any views on this

      • 2
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        Rajash

        They are free wake up calls and time keeping calls. It is like the Clock tower, Ding Dong, Dong, Dong,…..but it is only 5 times during the day, unlike the clock tower, 24 times every day.

        How about getting every Muslim a wrist Watch, with alarms? That way, even when they out of range, will know the prayer times.

        • 3
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          Amarasiri,
          ” How about getting every Muslim a wrist Watch, with alarms? That way, even when they out of range, will know the prayer times. “
          This device is already available. Comes from China, where else?

          • 0
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            Old Codger you beat me to it.

    • 2
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      Old Codger

      “I hope this doesn’t get you in trouble with the Islamists.”

      Izeth Hussein is Not a Wahhabi or one of its clones.

      So, he should be fine. It is good to take some time off fighting Satan and Iblis followers who were deceived.

      Only Satan, Iblis, Devil following Wahhabies and their clones get into trouble listening to music. Apparently, according to “Shaikh” Abdul Wahhab ans Wahhabi interpretations. Satan, Iblis does not like Music.

  • 3
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    Danno Budunge music was composed by the North Indian classical raagadhari musician, VISVANATH LOWJE. Our own John De Silva used it in his play Siri Sangabo and he put in the lyrics. It is difficult to define raagadhara music but basically this form of music is based on the construction of swara formed out of an ascending or descending scale with an objective of creating atmosphere or mood-or Rasa. The Rasa in Danno budinge is centred around devotion or bhakthi. Singing it in opera with its characteristic voice gymnastics is to miss the whole point of the song;it destroys the song.
    From the cultural point of view that really caused the uproar, this was seen as an attempt to denigrate a mythical image Sinhala Buddhists have had over the centuries since the Mahawamsa of a pure Buddhism practised by an undefiled Sanga. The myth is Platonic and not real. Gnasassara and Buddha Rakkhiththa?

  • 6
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    The article and the responses so far seem to indicate that although “the occasion of the National Day celebrations at Galle Face Green was the wrong milieu for it” not overmuch harm has been done: many Sri Lankans may have come to know of opera as a result of all this furore. It is also true that some people would have revised their views later. IH himself says:

    “I found KJ’s Dunno Budunge beautiful on a second and third hearing.”

    It is also unfortunate that only a very brief excerpt of Ranil Wickremasinghe’s interview has been highlighted in the video displays on the CT opening page. RW comes through as a relaxed man who is talking about his personal contact with this music if you listen to the interview in its entirety.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIuYso2PxQ

    Lastly, I agree with “Old Codger” that it is good that Izeth H. has been able to take time off his “Islamic travails”.

  • 2
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    Old Tamil cinema songs and classical songs are now a days remixed using the computer to cater for the modern musical taste of pop pop. most of them fail miserably one or two pas through.

    But listen to this

    Shiva Puranam by Ilaiyaraaja & Budapest Ochestra

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyOdDIPdqyo

    full version available on CD.

    Not an eyebrow was raised by any Tamil Nadu Political, musical or religious establishment.

    • 1
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      Rajash,
      thanks for the link .Really enjoyed it!

      • 0
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        Old Codger
        Glad you enjoyed it. I have the full version on CD it’s great.
        Native Veddaha – any thoughts

        • 4
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          Rajash

          “Native Veddaha – any thoughts”

          Did you mean Izeth Hussain’s typing? Do you harbour any grudge against me?

          Being a Veddah I cannot and should not discriminate between different types of music.

          I love all kinds of music depending on mood, time and place.

          My favourites Freddy Silva (Girigoris all other,lots of humour) Milton Mallawarachchi (Eda Rae and other), …. SD/RD Burman, Ennio Morricone (Gabriel’s Oboe and other), J P Chandrababu (Pirakkum Pothum, and other) ….

          I am just dropping names.

          • 0
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            Dear Native V,

            Just a thought – not entirely relative to the subject. Senior Journo Neville de Silva writing his weekly column from London in the Sunday Times today makes references to about 2 dozens of our outstanding Foreign Service diplomats in the past few decades. Curiously, there is no reference to our self-styled “one of the five best diplomats in the world” said to be a so-called title bestowed by the late and respected Indian journo GK Reddy. How come! How did Neville miss the name of such a great Lankan diplomat. Or is it that Neville had no time for diplomutts who were more identified with diplomessy??? Will Amarasiri also please note.

            Backlash

            • 3
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              Backlash – you are a liar Backie. You say that Neville de Silva makes reference to two dozens of our outstanding diplomats but there is no reference to me.He makes reference to thirteen, not “two dozens”. You are in such a state of mad dog rage that you seem to be incapable of getting anything right.
              The important point, however, is that Neville de S was not making an assessment of all our former diplomats. He was merely referring favorably to those he had come to know in his career as a journalist. He writes explicitly “Those I came to know included some of those ….”. What that means simply is that he had no occasion to interact with me at any of the Embassies where I served nor while I was in the Foreign Ministry.You are a liar, Backie.
              As for “diplomutt” – Brian Seneviratne, close kinsman of former Premier and Foreign Minister Mrs. B, has attested in CT columns that she was “very proud” of me.As Foreign Minister she knew my record as a diplomat.But you, Backie boy, do you know a dam thing about it? How you feelin’ Backie boy? – IH

              • 0
                3

                I refuse to descend to the customary lows of gutter language of this unstable twerp Izeth Hussain. His going verbally berserk is sufficient proof my point that he is a serial liar is made – once again.

                I have also since learnt Hussain’s earlier claim he wrote the speeches for Mrs. B’s GoSL during NAM (1976) is also false. Vernon Mendis, who was running the Mega event so effectively, would have none of it. IH could have been no more than a junior official then.

                Now that we are at it, I confess I had no intention to comment on Izeth’s piece on Kishani J, the Opera singer except to note that this subject is so far from his usual gibberish on Islam, Wahabism, Tamils etc. through which he inflicts regularly on an unwilling readership. Evidently, the twit has got the message his weekly diarrhea on these unpopular subjects has reached the point of total revulsion – if not utter boredom. He has since changed course – to new territory. BTW, this much revered song Danno Budunge is not a “pop” song that Hussain hilariously concludes in his wisdom. At least, let us be thankful the man did not call it a Baila piece. The song is as precious to Sinhala Buddhists as is Bach’s “Ave Maria” to the Christian world. Hussain might take the chance of educating himself on the subject from the very readable piece by that popular Compere Arun Dias Bandaranaike.

                It is not surprising the management of the journal Seilan Muslim has removed Izeth from their panel of Writers. I note this body is a respected grouping with such honoured Lankan Muslims as that affable and brilliant lawyer Faiz Mustapha PC, the genial former A-G Shibly Aziz PC – both of whom I have the privilege of knowing personally. As well that much respected academic Mrs. Jezima Ismail. As they in Sinhala, there is no place for cowdung in a pail of good milk.

                Backlash

            • 0
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              Backlash,
              Neville not knowing “five of the best” sissy Izzie is certainly a mystery?? I wonder in what field sissy Izzie excelled other than fiction writing and name calling to be ranked in the top five. Anyway give the devil his due he definitely takes the cake at hurling insults. My problem is how he fits into the culture of music?

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                J.Deane

                “My problem is how he fits into the culture of music?”

                I thought the Wahhabis and their clones do not like Music, Idols, statues and Pyramids, Yes Pyramids. I do not think Izeth Hussein is a Wahhabi or any of its clones. So, he is exempt from these restrictions.

                See Below.

                Egyptian Salafi Sheik Calls to Destroy Pyramids, Says: Bin Laden Greater than Saladin

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBR9XiE-mok

                Published on Nov 14, 2012

                Egyptian Salafi Sheik Murgan Salem Calls to Destroy Pyramids, Tax Christians, and Says: Bin Laden Greater than Saladin
                Dream 2 TV (Egypt) – November 10-13, 2012

                Egyptian Cleric Threatens the Secular in Egypt with Jihad and Justifies Islamist Prohibition of Art

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0b4FJ0jvBo

              • 0
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                J. Deanne,

                Let us momentarily leave this braying Izeth Hussain aside, whose response is like that of a wounded cur. As to his culture of music, I must admit he appears to know more than the average elitist Lankan. But when he says Danno Budunge is “John de Silva’s pop song” he, once more, makes an ass of himself entering an area, unsolicited, outside his grain.

                Mercifully, he has spared us by not insisting, in his self-proclaimed super wisdom, the National Anthem is Rock and Roll or Ragae music. And now, he comes out with this story of the National Anthem having a Turkish Origin – perhaps to get on to the good side of the Muslims whose goodwill he is fastly losing. While most believe this (NA) is influenced, in spirit though not melodiously, by Rabindranath Tagore and the Indian National Anthem. Shyamon Jayasinghe is far more qualified to comment. Is Izeth trying to regain some place with the Muslims by laying this rustic claim – cunningly attributing paternity of the thought on some Anthonypillai. Or, as we have all come to know, controversy and conflict are his indispensable norm.

                You will also note he often refers to Dr. Brian Seneviratne being a cousin of the (Horagolla) Bandaranaikes. This, I suspect, is a one-sided relationship. Having seen this earlier, CBK has told several friends she does not share this claim of Brian’s – although a distant unheralded connection may be likely.

                And then there is his own delusionary concoction of “concerted attack on me by Tamils” meaning there is a group of Tamils stalking him on these pages. This absurdity is as shallow is his other fanciful creation criticism ofn his “writings” is by writers paid by Zionists, the Indians and whatnot?? Clearly, the ageing “intellectual” is on a “trip” of his own imagination and self-importance.

                Backlash

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                  Ramona therese fernando – thanks very much for your elucidation. You seem to be a formidable erudite musicologist. – IH

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                  Backlash – I exposed you as a liar over what Neville de Silva wrote. Instead of replying to that you rave about other matters.You certainly are in a state of “mad dog rage”.The IH caravan moves on. /// Readers may wonder why I bother to reply to Backie at all. The reason is that I am gathering material for a further article on Tamil Islamophobic racism, a subject that certainly merits in-depth analysis. I cannot go into details about that here, but I will draw the readers’ attention to two significant facts.One is that we were having a civilised discussion over my article, frequently at a highly sophisticated intellectual level. The second fact is that Backie’s contributions are in a class apart, for displaying hysterical hatred and mad dog rage. That’s typical of the Tamil Islamophobe.- IH

                  • 0
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                    Mr. Izeth Hussain often refers to “Tamil Islamophobia” – a baseless and senseless non-issue. Is he not aware the Tamil political leadership sacrificed a seat in Parliament to accommodate a Muslim among them in addition to many other generous steps to resettle Muslims among them. Muslim political leaders in the South and the East are regularly in contact with Tamil leaders to arrive at a formulae for peaceful coexistence. This has been duly reciprocated.

                    There is no reason for Tamils to fear local Muslims or vice versa. For good or bad, they have taken on mightier foes and have prevailed to the admiration of many Sinhalese and the world. Mr. Hussain has to find other decent ways to continue his constant fights with other writers than resort to unnecessary provocation.

                    Nettabomman

                    • 1
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                      Nettabomman – you know perfectly well what I am talking about. I distinctly recall that you were an enthusiastic participant in the concerted Tamil attacks against me that went on week after week and month after month in the CT.
                      You write of unnecessary provocation on my part.The stark fact is that I have only replied to Tamil attacks against me.I have never initiated any attacks against Tamils. In the present instance, I and others were having civilised dialogue arising out of my article. Suddenly Backlash came in with an insulting letter that had no connection with my article.That was a typical Tamil Islamophobic performance.
                      I want you to reply to two questions – 1/ Have I ever initiated any attacks against Tamils? 2/ Am I expected not to reply to attacks? I must add that Tamils have frequently expressed outrage that I dared to reply to Tamil attacks against me. I will make an observation on the significance of that fact in the article I have in mind. – IH

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              Backlash RE; Izeth Hussein

              “How did Neville miss the name of such a great Lankan diplomat. Or is it that Neville had no time for diplomutts who were more identified with diplomessy??? Will Amarasiri also please note.”

              Didn’t know that Mr. Neville de Silva was the God of Journalism.

              Need to hear from the God of Diplomacy. Is there such a God we can hear from?

              However, have heard a lot about the Satan, Iblis, Devil who is really, really mad and agitated with Izeth Hussein and Amarasiri, because of the exposure of the Wahhabies and their clones, in misleading the innocent Muslims, trying to get them to Hell Fire along with Iblis, Satan on the day of Judgement, as per Islamic Theology.

              • 0
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                Where did Amarasiri pick up this thing of Neville de Silva being or not of God of Diplomacy. Or is Amarasiri trying to draw up a red herring to defend his friend Izeth H. Surely, Amarasiri knows all too well that there is no such stupidity. Friend, don’t waste time trying to defend this off-rail ex-diplomutt who thinks no end of himself.He gets blown up in the process by readers. The man’s logic is simply untenable. If you are a man of Islamic learning, please conduct yourself as such.

                Backlash

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                  Backlash

                  Where did Amarasiri pick up this thing of Neville de Silva being or not of God of Diplomacy or of Journalism?

                  The way some of the followers praising, Amarasiri was wondering if Neville de Silva was some kind of God of Journalism or Diplomacy.

                  Looks like there is a dispute as to the Divinity of Neville de Silva, and his “Revelations”. There are many disputes on the Divinities of the various Gods, and their Prophets, and therefore, Amarasiri put Neville de Silva into the Disputed Gods Basket, Pitaka, in Pali, until further clarification.

                  Amarasiri thinks that you should try to read up on,

                  a) Aristotle

                  b) Avicenna

                  c) Al Ghazali ( It was his fortune that he was born after Avicenna and before Averroes)

                  d) Averroes (Thomas Aquinas).

                  It was Aristotle who enhanced and confused Avicenna, Al Ghazali, Averroes and Thomas Aquinas ( through Averroes).

                  Between them they spent about 1,500 years.

                  Amarasiri is interested in the essence of their wisdom, “sophy” or “sophia” and see what could be extracted, without being lost in the woods.

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                    Backlash/ J.Deane/ Amarasiri -shortly after the concerted attacks on me by Tamils started I wrote that characteristic of them was “hysterical hatred and mad dog rage”. That’s a fair description of Backie’s latest performance. /// Backie boy – “liar” is not gutter language. It’s simply literally true about you.You deliberately distorted what Neville de S wrote. He mentioned the diplomats with whom he had interacted and of whom he had a favorable opinion. He was not drawing up a list of our best diplomats. Your deliberate distortion shows that you are a liar – worse, a liar who gets caught. /// I was the Director of the Non-Aligned Division, in charge of all the political work over the Summit. Vernon Mendis had nothing to do with it. He headed the organizational side. Mrs B was “very proud” of me as attested by Dr Brian S. She knew my record as a diplomat. Neither you, nor JD, nor the notorious Tuan knows anything about it. Can’t waste more time on you, Backie. – IH

              • 0
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                Mr. Hussain,

                Including that argument you attracted with that terrible suggestion to the Govt to starve Tamils, I am afraid you have shown many instances of anti-Tamil prejudice. This is naturally not acceptable with several Tamil writers taking issue with you against this. I do not have the time daily to follow events in CT but have occasionally made comments here.

                I have no interest in your regular tiffs with other readers.

                Nettabomman

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                  Nettabomann – you haven’t answered my two questions – 1/ Have I ever initiated attacks against Tamils? 2/ Do you deny me the right to reply to attacks by Tamils? You can’t reply to those questions without revealing your Islamophobic hatred. Instead you repeat the lie about my advocating famine as a weapon to subdue the Tamils. I have exposed that lie many times. The fact that you choose to repeat that lie shows that you have been bestialised by Islamophobic hatred – bestialised because your rational faculty has gone into abeyance, and you have no moral scruples at all when it comes to attacking a Muslim.
                  You have chosen to be threatening towards the Muslims – your remark about the Tamils taking on greater foes.Don’t you ever dare do that again. /// Who are you? Why do you hide behind a cowardly anonymity? Why don’t you declare your identity, stand up, and fight in the open like a man? The fact is that you are an unrepresentative Tamil nonentity. Just like Backlash. – IH

                  • 0
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                    Izeth Hussain,

                    I offered you no offence and yet you respond with great malice and anger totally unmindful of my reply to your questions. In your uncontrollable rage, you miss the point I have answered your questions in my reply on March 17. I have to agree with others who wonder if you are in control of your mental faculties. You explode unnecessarily with such unnecessary venom.

                    As to my writing under a pen name, aren’t you aware we live in a virtual police state. It has been called by the world as a fractured and dangerous society where many leading journalists have been brutally killed or harmed – merely for expressing their views, a democratic right.

                    By all means write and express your views, something which you are capable of doing. But please try to use decent and civilised language. It looks to me like the hostility you often generate is as a result of your own hostile writing and abrasive attitude.

                    Nettabomman

                    • 2
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                      Nettabomman – you were extremely insulting towards me. I replied appropriately – I must emphasize using entirely Parliamentary language. You didn’t answer my two questions. 1/ Have I ever initiated attacks against Tamils? 2/ Am I expected not to reply when L am attacked by Tamils? You can’t answer without revealing that you are in the grip of Islamophobic hatred. That is shown also by your bare-faced lie that I advocated famine.
                      Come off it, there is no dictatorship now. Even if there were, there would be no malign consequences for you in attacking me. There could be honorable reasons for using nom-de-plumes, but not when you engage in racist attacks.You are a Tamil nonentity like Backlash – that’s the explanation for your anonymity. – IH

                    • 0
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                      Mr. Izeth Hussain

                      I respond to your comments made today at 7/12pm. Since you deceptively deny this again, here’s the repeat of my comment of your deliberate lie asking “have I ever initiated attacks against Tamils..”

                      ///Including that argument you attracted with that terrible suggestion to the Govt to starve Tamils, I am afraid you have shown many instances of anti-Tamil prejudice. This is naturally not acceptable with several Tamil writers taking issue with you against this///

                      I have also proved your incorrect use of the word “Islamophobia” which you shamelessly deny.

                      You are a disgrace to the diplomatic community – present and past. That you are a curse to the Muslim community will be established soon. Your being thrown out of Seilan Muslim, reported by CT, is just the beginning. Today Muslims in the Island are virtually on the run and live in fear also because of men like you provoking extremist outfits like the BBS, JHU, Sihala Ravaya. In addition to avoiding businesses owned by Muslims, the majority community now refuses to sell or rent houses or other properties to Muslims in Colombo and the suburbs.
                      The current demand by the Muslim political leadership claiming a Separate State for Muslims is a dangerous one – considering the community came to the Island only in large numbers only over 200 years ago. There is absolutely no validity to the claim except for Rauf Hakeem and his friends to remain in power.

                      Nettabomman

    • 3
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      I must add that Sivapuraanam is Hindu religious thevaaram and is chanted in chorus fashion without any supporting musical instruments

      • 0
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        [Edited out]

        • 0
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          Rajash,
          I don’t know why CT edited out this link to a Pakistani singer doing an updated Ghazal (Muslim devotional song):

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5178cd1TQ_g

        • 2
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          Rajash,
          Maybe CT doesn’t like links. Type “peera ho fareeha” into you-tube and see this updated ghazal.

          • 2
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            old codger
            “very beautiful and sexy lady “
            she has better talents :)

            • 3
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              Rajash,
              Who says all Muslim ladies must look like black tents?

              • 0
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                ha ha brilliant

    • 1
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      Rajash,

      If they played this at Tamil Nadu National Day celebrations, however, 80% Tamils would have run into their abodes and hid, shivering in fright.

      • 0
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        Dear Ramona T
        1. There is no Tamilnadu National Day
        2.There is no Tamilnadu National Day
        3.There is no Tamilnadu National Day
        4.There is no Tamilnadu National Day
        5.There is no Tamilnadu National Day

        If you don’t understand the above, repeat 3 times before going to bed, ok? All the best.

  • 5
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    Bravo Mr. NMMI Hussein!

    Yes, KJ’s rendition has been revolutionary when viewed especially from a purist prism. Yet the history of this song proves it has been subjected to different renditions over the years and its composer is not Sri Lankan but Indian. The Sri Lankan connection was made through John de Silva, a gentleman who did not wear the native redda but a three piece suit, as Arun Dias Bandaranaike’s recent article on CT reveals. Now, does that make de Silva a less native Lankan?

    Music is an art not a science. Art is more subject to mutations.Art interprets while science explains. So it is up to the listener to either listen to a piece of music with rapt attention or if one does not like it simply press the “Off” button. It is simple as that! If music was to be frozen in original the world would be bereft of choice. Just imagine a world with one type of everything. How boring it would be. Therefore, Fundamentalism in the arts should be resisted.

    Having been long used to his focus on politics and Wahabism, I did not know until mow that Mr. Hussien’s expertise extended to areas such as music.It is an illuminating article written with the usual Hussein sweep and panache. His world wide Overseas Service wonderings would surely have contributed to shaping his views. Hopefully he would share his knowledge on other subjects as well, as I hear he is a polymath.

    Incidentally, the article should really be a “must read” for HLD Mahindapala. Poor chap deserves a break – at least momentarily – from his obsession with the Tamil caste system and the writings of all those who disagree with him. It would be the greatest of ironies if he takes that break through this particular piece, would it not ?

  • 2
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    This stupid outrage by tone deaf idiots who couldn’t appreciate culture if it hit them in their faces. The operatic version is akin to all other versions, different but superior. The most stupid comment I’ve heard is that Kishani sang this to the wrong audience. That may be true, but unless people are exposed to improvements, we’d still be walking around in ‘amudeys’ and living in caves. It is worthwhile noting here is that these same idiots indicted and deported tourist that should be bread and butter for our survival, because they had tattoos they did not approve.

    • 2
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      Sylvia Haik

      “It is worthwhile noting here is that these same idiots indicted and deported tourist that should be bread and butter for our survival, because they had tattoos they did not approve. “

      Yes. Very interesting and astute write up on Music by Izeth Hussein. He certainly has more talents beyond exposing the Satan-Following Wahhabis and the Tamil-Racists, in the areas of culture such as music. Now, who says that Muslims do not appreciate Music? Look at the Indian singers and musicians.

      Interesting Comment. Let’s see. The critics say it is Western, Foreign, Has Christian Music style behind it. Namely it is Para-Music style.

      What are the Para things and styles we have in the Land of Native Veddah Aethho?

      1. Para-Sinhala, Para-Tamil, Para-Muslim, Para Portuguese, Dutch, Malay, English and Indian.

      2. Para-Buddhism, Para-Hinduism, Para-Islam, Para-Christianity, etc.

      3. So this Para-Western Opera Style to the Para-Sinhala singing is just a mutation of the Para-sinhala Culture with the other Para-Cultures.

      Is it a big deal. Yes, if you imagine you are not Para and others are Paras.

  • 1
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    Amarasiri , with so much Para in your wonderful comments, would it be not an excellent idea to call yourself “Para Amarae”? Cool Bro D

    • 3
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      Siva Sankaran Sarma

      What if Amarasiri is residing at Maha Bharat, Dambadiva or India? Then it won’t be Para-Amare!

  • 0
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    Shyamon,
    Looks like you have not read Arun Dias Bandaranayake’s posting on 4 March on Colombo Telegraph. You can read it by easily searching it in the archives with a key word. I can also post the opus number of the Mendelssohn’s Song Without Words so that you can see the similarity yourself. I need to audition it again when I have time I will do it. I am sure someone else who had listened to it can post a youtube clip of the relevant Mendelssohn’s song without words work.(He composed 48 such miniature works)

    Yes, Lauji is credited for “creating” the melody of Danno Budunge song. Whether he was inspired by Ragadhari music or an existing western style melody (based on a melody passed on by Mendelssohn which he consequently used for one of his own Song without Words) or a folk song what is the problem? A musician is entitled to use any source for his inspiration. In this case it is clear that the original source of the melody should come from Mendelssohn. Similarity in the number of consecutive bars is too strong to disregard- Mendelssohn died long before Lauji.

    I am sure you know better than us that “creative” composition in Sri Lanka started with Ananda Samarakoon around 1939. Prior to that the trend was to retrofit some “meaningless Sinhala phrases or words with no literary value” to a popular (Hindustan) melody or a new melody done by a local or an Indian artist. Danno Budunge is one of the more enduring melodies that appealed to the hearts of the people regardless of their creed. As a non-Buddist I can say that I like it. I think its enduring appeal comes from its melody. I am not a musicologist. But a musicologist friend of mine who is conversant with both Western and Ragadhari music and who has analysed the composition, is convinced that the origin of the melody of Danno Budunge must be rooted Mendelssohn than ragadari tradition. There is nothing to be shy about this. This may have been sung in the ragadhari style at some stage. It was also sung in western style by Hubert Rajapakse way back in 1920’s or 30’s.

    MJA

    • 3
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      MJA – please let us know which one of the Songs without Words you have in mind and also who is the performer.Some performances can bring out the contours of a melody more clearly than others.
      Talking of influence and derivation in music, does anyone now remember a notion that was current in the ‘fifties and ‘sixties that our national anthem Namo Namo was derived from a Turkish folk song? A well-known musicologist of that time, Antonypillai, told me he was sure about that. – IH

      • 1
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        Which Turkish folk song may I know?
        Has Ananda Samarakoon hinted anything to that effect?

        Legend is that AS was in Shanthi Niketan for some years and that the tune was inspired by Rabindra Sangeeth.

        I am aware that Indian culture, especially that of most of northern India, is still heavily influenced by Moghul culture. The Moghuls, despite Islam’s allegedly unfavourable view of music, were great patrons of it. The difference between Hindistani music and Carnatic music has its roots there.
        But that could not have been the route for a “Turkish folk song” into “Namo namo maathaa”.

        • 0
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          sekara,

          I made this comment on the National Anthem in the article “The Evocative Minor Chords Of ‘Dunno Budunge’ & The Current Discord.”
          (actually Danno Budunge is of major chords)

          https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/the-evocative-minor-chords-of-dunno-budunge-the-current-discord/comment-page-1/#comment-1943905

          //The truth is, Lankan music(mostly Sinhala music), has identifiable tunes. Just take any Sinhala song- from Buddhist temple songs to the Sinhala classics : they might attempt to imbue them with Indian sectional scores (thinking that Indian music is of higher form), and then dress it up after that in Indian style with all kinds of undulating embellishments. But Sinhala music has identifiable tunes that have a story line, even without the lyrics.

          Take the National Anthem for example. The initial beginning might be of what Rabindranath Tagore might have composed…..or he might have learned from Samarakoon (i.e. Namo namo mataha part…..e-ee-e-dd-b-d-ccccc). The Indian national anthem also contains that particular musical score, but it just doesn’t take off after that. It attempts to rise, but eventually falls flat, and then moves into all kinds of vague abstractness. It does not give a continuous story line like the Lankan National Anthem. In spite of the amorphous melody, Indian national anthem comes together with all the embellishments, rather the way jazz-music does.\\

          • 1
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            Thanks for being patient and most instructive.

      • 5
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        Izeth Hussain, Sir,

        Turkish music is mostly(if not all), of minor scale. Namo, Namo Matha is of major scale, as is with Danno Budunge.

        There are plenty of performances on YouTube of Mendelssohn’s Songs Without Words. If you attempt to transpose Danno Budunge into the piano and cello versions, the tunes would clash.

        Next country please…….

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          Sorry.
          Thanks rtf.
          I drifted and commented on Namo Namo Matha.
          Izeth H could have probed deeper before making claims about a most unlikely origin.
          I have heard hat the tune of Danno Budunge being based on a foreign source. What does it matter? If it reflects the spirit of the lyrics and captures the imagination of a people, that is what matters.

          Nothing needs to be a genuinely native product to gain national acceptance and identity?

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            sekara,

            Danno Budunge comes from the heart of Sinhala folksong.

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            sekera – I was not making any claims bout the origins of Namo Namo Matha. I was merely seeking information. The notion that it was a plagiarised version of a Turkish folk song was widely current in the ‘fifties and the ‘sixties. That notion has died out. Probably there was nothing in it. – IH

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              Izeth Hussain,Sir,

              Listening to Turkish (old and new) and Ottoman music, they are indeed very beautiful. It seems however, they do not stray too far on the musical sale and limit their notes close to each other. They vary by not more than 5 notes….and going as far to 6 – 8 notes is rare. There are times they slide to another chord grouping, but the notes remain close to each other in that chord. All their songs are of the minor chords groupings. In some renditions, it seems that they move their notes to a higher scale, but it is an accompaniment to the original tune.

              Namo, Namo Matha on the other hand, goes up and down, and forwards and backwards, in long and short strides on the music scale, and is entirely within one major chord grouping. Within that major chord family (C-major in most cases), it moves up and down by 12 notes, going into the next two scales. Danno Budunge is of the same musical style.

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              IH
              No offence meant.
              I guess that Ramona has clarified adequately.

              We are already a prejudiced lot. So, it is wise to avoid hearsay, especially if it could hurt the sensibilities of a people.

              I am offended by the kind of abusive language I see on the Internet. It takes trivia to provoke hatred.

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                Izeth Hussain, Sir,

                Ok, ok……I know I am a bit of a music amateur, but one can always listen and follow along.

                Taking it a bit further, the only exception in Turkish music seems to be its national anthem. Both Lanka’s and Turkey’s anthems each seem to have a range of 11 -12 keys (but I am not too sure of these because of the sharps and flats between, and their chord families….they may vary by a half note).

                Turkish : http://www.nationalanthems.info/tr~.gif from a low b to a high e

                Lankan : http://www.nationalanthems.info/lk~.gif from a low b-flat to a high f

                However, the melody of Turkey’s national anthem was specially created for the national anthem. Namo, Namo Matha, on the other hand was a song of love created by Samarakoon for his native land. It was taken as national anthem many years later (both melody and lyrics).

                Also Turkey’s anthem is in minor key; Sri Lanka’s is in major key. Turkey’s anthem is of military style; Lanka’s anthem is of harmonious style.

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    IH, ‘this is good article’ seems to be the opinion of many but not mine. No damage done even if it is a bad article.

    You should stick this type of topic and not write about Islam, Wahhabis etc. and doing a lot of damage to a great religion and one of its great sects.

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      [Edited out] Thiru! Agree 100percent

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        Mr Editor – agree 100% – I mean for editing Dean out. /// Hey, Jamaat Deane, see my reply to Backlash above. He doesn’t know a dam thing about my performance as a diplomat. Neither do you. But Mrs B did, as she was Foreign Minister. – IH

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          Izeth Hussain

          “Mr Editor – agree 100% – I mean for editing Dean out. “

          It is like Allah, SWT, Editing out Iblis, Satan and their Wahhabi and clone followers, who who wants to trick Muslims by deception to Hell Fire, per Iblis and Satan’s wishes.

          The story of Satan (Shaitaan), his tactics, and methods to ward off his influences and whispers. Satan infects Abdul Wahhab, Wahhabis and their clones.

          http://www.iqrasense.com/satan-and-evil/satan-story-shaitaan-tactics-methods-to-ward-off-influences-whispers.html

          The dawn of evil started with the arrogance and rebellious nature of Iblees

          Shaitan’s (also referred to as Satan) enmity with man started when Allah (SWT) created the first man, Adam (alaihis salaam). Satan was from amongst the “jinn” who have been created with the ability to obscure themselves from human sight, and who constitute a world of their own. Allah says in the Holy Quran:

          “And (remember) when We said to the angels: ‘Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.’ So they prostrated themselves except ‘Iblis’ (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord” (Quran, Al-Kahf: 50).

          “….And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah)” (Quran, Al-Baqarah: 34).

          Satan’s arrogance – reinforced by his false logic, and jealousy – prevented him from obeying Allah’s command. As Allah tells us in the Quran, Satan said, “I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay” (Quran, Al-Aaraf: 12).

          Shaitan is the source of all evil

          Everything that happens among the sons of Adam of kufr (disbelief of the Truth), murder, enmity, hatred, the spread of immorality and fornication, the public wanton display of women’s beauty, drinking alcohol, worshipping idols and other major sins, is all the work of Satan to corrupt mankind and to drive people from following the way of Allah and drag them to the Fire of Hell with him.

          That is what the Wahhabies and their clones ISIS does.

          So, let’s remember that when we find ourselves around evil or being lured by it, Satan is engaged in his work and our task is to fend off his plans. Allah says in the Quran: “And if an evil whisper from Shaitan (Satan) tries to turn you away (O Muhammad) (from doing good), then seek refuge in Allah. Verily, He is the All Hearer, the All Knower” (Quran, Fussilat: 36).

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        Thiruvathavoorar Lakshminarayan/ J.Deane

        “You should stick this type of topic and not write about Islam, Wahhabis etc. and doing a lot of damage to a great religion and one of its great sects.”

        The problem is not with Muslims following Islam, which means submission to Allah, God.

        The problem is with Wahhabism and its Clones such as ISIS, Taliban etc. with Muslims being deceived to follow Iblis, Satan, Devil, so that those Satan deceived Muslims, now called Iblisis, ISISes etc., will end up in Hell Fire Along with Satan, Iblis, on the Day of Judgement. They follow Abdul Wahhab, who was infected by Satan, who in turn copied from Ibn Taymiah, who was also infected by Satan.

        al-azhar cleric about wahabis/salafis

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAvWmZfGjTU

        So, Izeth Hussein and others have a moral duty to save the Muslims and non-Muslims alike from the Satan-following Wahhabies and its clones.

        Wahhabism: The School of Ibn Taymiyyah – The Root of Terrorism?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mBWMbuDp-s

        Published on Jun 26, 2015
        A look at the root and ideology of Wahhabism. Founded by Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahab who was influenced by the writings of Ibn Taymiyyah. This documentary studies their teachings and why so much hatred is seen towards other religions and sects because of their teachings.

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          ,

          Thiruvathavoorar Lakshminarayan wrote

          “You should stick this type of topic and not write about Islam, Wahhabis etc. and doing a lot of damage to a great religion and one of its great sects.”

          Amarasiri replies
          The problem is not with Muslims following Islam, which means submission to Allah, God.

          The problem is with Wahhabism and its Clones such as ISIS, Taliban etc. with Muslims being deceived to follow Iblis, Satan, Devil, so that those Satan deceived Muslims, now called Iblisis, ISISes etc., will end up in Hell Fire Along with Satan, Iblis, on the Day of Judgement. They follow Abdul Wahhab, who was infected by Satan, who in turn copied from Ibn Taymiah, who was also infected by Satan.

          As usual it is the classic case of KOHEDDA YANNE MALLE POL. and he tortures the reader with his unrelenting prolixity citing the sun and the moon, theory of relativity, gmat scores, quantum physics and what not. All this may be relevant to the thread on Wahabism but not to the politics of Kishani Jayasinghe.

          …..Will end up in Hell fire.

          According to the teachings of Sheik Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab no one can say who will finally end up in hell or not, except those who have been specifically mentioned by God. It is even forbidden to say so. Even you, though you might deserve very much to go to hell with your partner Izzie, no one has the right to say so, as this is within the purview of the Almighty. Remember the arch enemy of Islam, Geert Wilders’ confidante Arnoud van Doorn, who himself was very anti- Muslim finally converted to Islam.

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            J.Deane

            We know where the Muslims stand with respect to Wahhabism.

            After 250 years of Wahhabism, Saudi Arabia has only 25% Wahhabis.

            Turkey is 99.9% Sunni and 0% Wahhabi.

            On the Other Hand Prpphet Mohamed, PBUH, within 23 years got all of the Arabian Peninsula to accept Islam. What does it tell you?

            Those who followed Prophet Mohamed, PBUH, followed Allah, SWT,Followed Islam, which means submission to Allah, SWT, and were Muslims.

            Those who followed Adbul Wahhab , followed Iblis, Satan, Followed Wahhabism and its clones, which means submission to Iblis, Satan, and were Wahhabies, Salafis, ISIS, Taliban, etc. This is what many Muslim Scholars say. Amarasiri is just reporting and clarifying.

            Please consider giving up Wahhabism. It is bad for you ans all around you in every way. Only Iblis, Satan, Shaitan is the winner.

            al-azhar cleric about wahabis/salafis

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAvWmZfGjTU

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            J.Deane

            RE: Thiruvathavoorar Lakshminarayan wrote

            “You should stick this type of topic and not write about Islam, Wahhabis etc. and doing a lot of damage to a great religion and one of its great sects.”

            ” Amarasiri replies The problem is not with Muslims following Islam, which means submission to Allah, God.”

            Those who know, know that the Problem lies with Wahhabism. It is like the Geocentric Model and the Heliocentric Model. Those who know, know that the Earth spins and goes around the Sun. Those who don’t know still believe that the Sun goes the Earth based on Revelation and the Ancients.

            Before Wahhabiam and its clones, there was Islam. There was the Islamic Golden Age. Had Wahhabism come before that, there would have been no Islamic Golden Age, but only severed heads and stoned women.

            Why? Because the Wahhabies follow Iblis, Satan. Devil.

            Devil, Satan , Shaitan is mentioned 88 times, and Iblis 11 times, a total of 99 Times.

            Save yourself from Hell Fire.Satan, Devil was made of Fire, as ne claims, in the Quran. If so, he may not be affecteed by Hell Fire, that is abode, but Humans Wioll burn.

            Washhabies, are you prepared to give up your Wahhabism, Salafism, Takfirism and avoid being in Hell Fire along with Satan, Iblis?

            References:

            Devil (Islam)

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_(Islam)

            Iblis was proud and considered himself superior to Adam, since Adam was made from clay and Iblis from smokeless fire.For this act of disobedience, God cursed him to Jahannam (Hell/Purgatory) for eternity, but gave him respite until the Day of Judgment, after Iblis requested it. Iblis obtained permission from God and vowed that he would use this time to lead all men and women astray to Hell. In this way, he would prove humanity’s inferiority, and justify his act of defiance. For refusing to abide by the will of God, Iblis was cast out of Heaven, and thereafter he was called “Shaytan” (Satan).

            He said: “Give me respite till the day they are raised up.”

            (Allah) said: “Be thou among those who have respite.”

            He said: “Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:

            “Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies).”

            (Allah) said: “Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all.

            — Quran sura 7 (Al-Aʻraf), ayah 14-18

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              I still maintain that Wahhabism is the pure form of Islam.

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                Thiruvathavoorar Lakshminarayan

                “I still maintain that Wahhabism is the pure form of Islam.”

                “We still maintain that the Earth is Stationary and that the Sun, yje Moon and the Planets all move around the Earth as the scriptures said, in Joshua, and the Ancients Claimed”- The Roman Catholic Church and the Inquisitors.

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                  Amarasiri please stop displaying your profound stupidity. How come Yushidi Kusan -Director of the Tokyo Observatory, Tokyo, Japan. And Professor Amstrong – Who works for NASA and is also Professor of Astronomy, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas, could not come to the same brilliant conclusions as you did?

                  I say, I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in Qur’an, and for us modern astronomers have been studying very small piece of the universe. We have concentrated our efforts for understanding of very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts of the sky without thinking about the whole universe. So by reading Qur’an and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”-Yushidi Kusan

                  Prof. Armstrong was asked a number of questions about Qur’anic verses dealing with his field of specialisation. He was eventually asked, “You have seen and discovered for yourself the true nature of modern Astronomy by means of modern equipment, rockets, and satellites developed by man. You have also seen how the same facts were mentioned by the Qur’an fourteen centuries ago. So what is your opinion?”

                  “That is a difficult question which I have been thinking about since our discussion here. I am impressed at how remarkably some of the ancient writings seem to correspond to modern and recent Astronomy. I am not a sufficient scholar of human history to project myself completely and reliably into the circumstances that 1400 years ago would have prevailed.

                  Certainly, I would like to leave it at that, that what we have seen is remarkable, it may or may not admit of scientific explanation, there may well have to be something beyond what we understand as ordinary human experience to account for the writings that we have seen.”

                  Tell us Amarasiri, are these two, who are specialists in their respective fields, so stupid that they, having read the verses of the Quran, are of an opinion diametrically opposed to yours? OR is it possible that profound stupidity in this case is entirely your preserve

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                    J.Deane

                    Yushidi Kusan and Professor Amstrong , what did they Actually Say?

                    Please use Reason, Observation and Data and compare that to Revelations.

                    Please cite the relevant Verses, what Yushidi Kusan and Professor Amstrong are citing.

                    “Tell us Amarasiri, are these two, who are specialists in their respective fields, so stupid that they, having read the verses of the Quran, are of an opinion diametrically opposed to yours? OR is it possible that profound stupidity in this case is entirely your preserve.”

                    400 odd years ago, the Catholic Church asked a similar Question from Galileo, regarding the Copernican Heliocentric Model.

                    “Tell us Galileo Gallili, are these, Aristotle, Ptolemy, the Ancients and Joshua in the Holy Bible, as per Revelations, said that the Sun goes around’s the Earth, who are specialists in their respective fields, so stupid that they, having read the verses of the Bible, and looked up at the sky, are of an opinion diametrically opposed to yours? OR is it possible that profound stupidity in this case is entirely your preserve, Galileo Gallili?”

                    The Church claimed 200 odd years later, that they were wrong, and so was Joshua in the Bible.

                    Please use Reason, Observation and Data and compare that to Revelations.

                    Feynman on Scientific Method.

                    Uploaded on Feb 18, 2011
                    Physicist Richard Feynman explains the scientific and unscientific methods of understanding nature.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw

                    If it disagreed with experiment, it is wrong. That is what Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Foucault and Einstein all tried to explain.

                    Take Aristotle, Al Ghazali and Averroes for Example, and compare to data and observations what each was saying.

                    1. “Whereas al-Ghazali believed that any individual act of a natural phenomenon occurred only because God willed it to happen, Averroes insisted phenomena followed natural laws that God created.” Modern science has proved that Averroes was correct, and Hamid Al Ghazali incorrect.

                    2. “Averroes’s rebuttal was two-pronged: he contended both that al-Ghazali’s arguments were mistaken and that, in any case, the system of Avicenna was a distortion of genuine Aristotelianism so that al-Ghazali was aiming at the wrong target. ” Ghazali was confused. 3. “Whereas al-Ghazali believed that phenomenon such as cotton burning when coming into contact with fire happened each and every time only because God willed it to happen —

                    “all earthly occurrences depend on heavenly occurrences”

                    —Averroes, by contrast insisted while God created the natural law, humans “could more usefully say that fire cause cotton to burn — because creation had a pattern that they could discern.”

                    Modern science has proved that Averroes was correct. Cotton, which is a carbohydrate, containing C, H, and O burns in air, that contains 21% oxygen and 78% nitrogen, by the phenomenon called oxidation. It burns spontaneously because of the decrease in chemical free energy. C is converted to CO2, H to H2O. Averroes, by contrast insisted while God created the natural law, which is in keeping with modern science.

                    However, science does not take a position on God, as to the existence, non-existence, eternal, created or uncreated.

                    Most Iblis, Satan Following Wahhabies, their clones and their Ulama do not have the intellect to understand these issues. Some of them even still believe that the Sun goes around the Earth. Do they still believe that the Earth is flat?

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                      Revelation vs reason.
                      Revelation is communication of knowledge to man by a divine source. Reason on the other hand is a fact that logically justifies some premise. Does God exist or not? Challenging revelation is akin to believing in the non existence of God. Revelation necessarily emanates from a perfect infallible source. Man is very fallible with a defined limit to his reasoning and is subject to error.

                      With these definitions one can see the fallacy of Amarasiri’s incredulous theory? His attempts to show that reason should over ride revelation makes him anathema to Muslims, whether they follow the Sheik Muhammad or not! It will be easier to solve Fermats 300 year equation than to establish that revelation is bunkum to any self respecting Muslim who has an iota of belief enshrined in his heart.

                      The viciousness of Amarasiri’s attempts to sow seeds of doubt in young Muslim minds is absolutely abominable to say the least. His facade of someone knowledgeable in the Quran is very hollow and intellectually dishonest. An honest appraisal of any subject requires that arguments pro and against be tabled and analyzed. Sadly Amarasiri, who lacks the capacity of doing so, only quotes malicious critics to win his case: this he does unrelentingly, day in and day out, cutting and pasting the same old stuff from his library of stock quotes.
                      Finally, I request Amarasiri, in the name of decency, stop hurling expletives on Sheik Muhammad, as he is beloved and loved by many in the Moslem world. ISIS, Al-Qaeeda and their clones have absolutely no respect for Sheik Muhammad. If you disagree then it is your right to prove otherwise maintaining dignity and decorum and by providing concrete proof, not by hurling abuses and mis-quoting the Quran and quoting questionable sources.

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                    J.Deane

                    Why I am no longer a Creationist complete series….

                    Why are you still a Wahhabi….

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Neuth7KYng&ebc=ANyPxKq4E3xRrKnU4PVOrMRzrgEsgxIRHwHkm3GPQxrC_8TxVswZXvgH_fMbctBbfmnxAIeXooIPOvtylKqW-Q5ecE9VETyNxQ

                    At about 20:17, this video contains a map that shows how as we evolved as we left Africa, our origin place; to the point where in the most northern climes we got lighter, and it shows that the last migrations ended in South America, where maybe our skins started to darken again. Which reminded me that in the 60s we heard from the good christians that integration would result in the “mongrelization of the white race”, and yet what we can see from this map is that the black race was mongrelized by … that’s right: the white people. A proof: my skin doctor told me that skin cancer is almost non existent in Africans and Hispanics and Asians. I have to get this info to the republicans!

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            J.Deane

            ….Who .Will end up in Hell fire.

            “According to the teachings of Sheik Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab no one can say who will finally end up in hell or not, except those who have been specifically mentioned by God.”

            So, according to Wahhabis, Muslims did not know for 1,200 years, until the Satan-Iblis following Abdul Whab, came out of Najad as per Hadith of Najd…

            there was the Quran and Hadith before ibn Taymiah and Abdul Wahhab appareled.

            The Problem with thse people is that they do not know the context and what is meant by the different words, Besides the Quran has thousands of words that are not of Arabic Origin, and has its roots in Persian Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac. etc.

            Listen to the Debate below.

            Revelation Vs, reason, in the Bible and the Quran.

            What happens, when revelation is clearly incorrect?

            Nabeel Qureshi stumbles on the Trinity – Must Watch !!

            Revealed: Joshua 10:13 King James Bible

            And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m5K9C2MHxg

            Published on Apr 18, 2015
            Nabeel Qureshi stumbles on the Trinity – MUST WATCH !!

            —————————————-­—-

            Ally has a doctoral degree in Quranic interpretation from the University of Toronto, a B.A. in religious studies with a specialization in Biblical literature from Laurentian University, and is the president of the Islamic Information & Dawah Centre International in Toronto where he functions as Imam. He travels internationally to represent Islam in public lectures and interfaith dialogues.

            A member of the Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) speaking team, Qureshi holds an MD from Eastern Virginia Medical School, an MA in Christian apologetics, and an MA from Duke University in religion. He is currently pursuing a PhD in New Testament studies at Oxford University.

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              Come come Amarasiri, do you really think people interested in the politics of Kishani Jayasinghe have time for your unrelated, unrelenting, garbage you spew out like some incurable diarrhoea? What is your problem? To impress the readers that you are a polymath? One who knows about everything, every religion even better than what their founders knew and taught? You have been a vehement critic of Sheik Wahab and we can understand that. No problem about this at all. The Lord Buddha had to contend with Devadutta, Jesus Christ with Judas, the Prophet Muhammad with Abu Jahl and so on.The Imams Maliki, Shafeyi,Ahmad bin Hanbal all had even ulemas opposing them, and they had them incarcerated by the rulers for challenging their mistaken understanding of Islam. You not being a Muslim, though pretending to be one by quoting voluminous non relevant verses of the Quran, keep on hurling filthy abuses at two of the most revered Scholars of Islam. For all your pseudo scholarship, you have NOT quoted a single line from the vast writings of the two Shaiks to prove that they are not in consonance with the original teachings of the Holy Prophet of Islam. You have not done so because you are not qualified to research at the source level. Hence you join a band wagon of malicious critics like Devadutta, Judas, and Abu Jahl to hurl abuse, misrepresent Islam, the Quran, the Prophet and pious scholars. If all your distortions on the verses of the Quran are true, one wonders how this escaped the notice of prominent people like
              1.Lord Headly, ( president of the institution of Engineers),
              2.Dr. Keith Moore Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto. Distinguished embryologist and the author of several medical textbooks,
              3. E.Marshall Johnson Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto.
              4. Alfred Kroner – Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany.
              5. Yushidi Kusan -Director of the Tokyo Observatory, Tokyo, Japan.
              6. Professor Amstrong – Professor Armstrong works for NASA and is also Professor of Astronomy, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas, USA.
              7. Dr. Maurice Bucaille – Born in 1920, former chief of the Surgical Clinic, University of Paris, has for a long time deeply interested in the correspondences between the teachings of the Holy Scriptures and modern secular knowledge.

              These are just a few I have mentioned to make the reply concise.

              For more scientists and their take on Islam please log into:
              https://truereligiondebate.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/non-muslim-scientists-embraced-islam-after-discovering-the-miracles-of-the-noble-quran/
              I trust that you will realize that this is the wrong thread for you to have written what you have. So please present your original research to CT readers so we can discuss in that thread.


              For more scientists and their take on Islam please log into:

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                J.Deane

                Yushidi Kusan and Professor Amstrong , what did they Actually Say?

                Please use Reason, Observation and Data and compare that to Revelations.

                Please cite the relevant Verses, what Yushidi Kusan and Professor Amstrong and others are citing. What are the verses, each is citing?

                Please use Reason, Observation and Data and compare that to Revelations. Feynman on Scientific Method and Unscientific Method.

                Uploaded on Feb 18, 2011 Physicist Richard Feynman explains the scientific and unscientific methods of understanding nature.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYPapE-3FRw

                If it disagreed with experiment, or obervations, it is wrong. That is what Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Foucault and Einstein all tried to explain.

                1.Lord Headly, ( president of the institution of Engineers),

                2.Dr. Keith Moore Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto. Distinguished embryologist and the author of several medical textbooks,

                3. E.Marshall Johnson Professor Emeritus, Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology, University of Toronto.

                4. Alfred Kroner – Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, Germany.

                5. Yushidi Kusan -Director of the Tokyo Observatory, Tokyo, Japan.

                6. Professor Amstrong – Professor Armstrong works for NASA and is also Professor of Astronomy, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas, USA.

                7. Dr. Maurice Bucaille – Born in 1920, former chief of the Surgical Clinic, University of Paris, has for a long time deeply interested in the correspondences between the teachings of the Holy Scriptures and modern secular knowledge.

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                  Revelation vs reason.
                  Revelation is communication of knowledge to man by a divine source. Reason on the other hand is a fact that logically justifies some premise. Does God exist or not? Challenging revelation is akin to believing in the non existence of God. Revelation necessarily emanates from a perfect infallible source. Man is very fallible with a defined limit to his reasoning and is subject to error.

                  With these definitions one can see the fallacy of Amarasiri’s incredulous theory? His attempts to show that reason should over ride revelation makes him anathema to Muslims, whether they follow the Sheik Muhammad or not! It will be easier to solve Fermats 300 year equation than to establish that revelation is bunkum to any self respecting Muslim who has an iota of belief enshrined in his heart.

                  The viciousness of Amarasiri’s attempts to sow seeds of doubt in young Muslim minds is absolutely abominable to say the least. His facade of someone knowledgeable in the Quran is very hollow and intellectually dishonest. An honest appraisal of any subject requires that arguments pro and against be tabled and analyzed. Sadly Amarasiri, who lacks the capacity of doing so, only quotes malicious critics to win his case: this he does unrelentingly, day in and day out, cutting and pasting the same old stuff from his library of stock quotes.
                  Finally, I request Amarasiri, in the name of decency, stop hurling expletives on Sheik Muhammad, as he is beloved and loved by many in the Moslem world. ISIS, Al-Qaeeda and their clones have absolutely no respect for Sheik Muhammad. If you disagree then it is your right to prove otherwise maintaining dignity and decorum and by providing concrete proof, not by hurling abuses and mis-quoting the Quran and quoting questionable sources.

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                    J.Deane
                    March 18, 2016 at 10:40 pm

                    RE: Revelation vs Reason.

                    Please use Reason, Observation and Data and compare that to Revelations.

                    Fundamentalists, Theologians and Philosophers Conflict.

                    “Finally, I request Amarasiri, in the name of decency, stop hurling expletives on Sheik Muhammad, as he is beloved and loved by many in the Moslem world. ISIS, Al-Qaeeda and their clones have absolutely no respect for Sheik Muhammad.”

                    It is the Iblis following Abdul Wahhab, who hailed from Najd, as per Hadith of Najd, who re-branded Muslims, non-Muslims, and encouraged killing them, even though those killed were Allah ST creatures. Who would do that? Only Iblis, Satan and either followers, i.e. Wahhabis and their Clones such as ISIS etc.

                    Incoherence of the Philosophers by Al-Gahazali and

                    Incoherence of the Incoherence by Averroes.
                    ( Summarizing Aristotle, Avicenna, Ghazali, Averroes.)

                    Question: For those able to do it, it is required by Quran to do Philosophy, look around.

                    Question..Who is Qualified? Only the Philosophers are the only ones Qualified, not the Ulama, and ask the Philosophers.

                    The So called, “Shaikh” Adbul Wahhab, who Copied from Ibn Taymiah are NOT Qualified, and in fact are deceived by the Satan, Iblis.

                    Those who belive are not the true beliefs. That is the case with Wahhabis and their Clones.

                    Averroës (In Our Time, 5/10/06)

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrBH0yAmT4o

                    Published on Jul 29, 2014
                    *** Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the philosopher Averroes who worked to reconcile the theology of Islam with the rationality of Aristotle achieving fame and infamy in equal measure In The Divine Comedy Dante subjected all the sinners in Christendom to a series of grisly punishments, from being buried alive to being frozen in ice. The deeper you go the more brutal and bizarre the punishments get, but the uppermost level of Hell is populated not with the mildest of Christian sinners, but with non-Christian writers and philosophers. It was the highest compliment Dante could pay to pagan thinkers in a Christian cosmos and in Canto Four he names them all. Aristotle is there with Socrates and Plato, Galen, Zeno and Seneca, but Dante ends the list with neither a Greek nor a Roman but ‘with him who made that commentary vast, Averroes’.

                    Averroes was a 12th century Islamic scholar who devoted his life to defending philosophy against the precepts of faith. He was feted by Caliphs but also had his books burnt and suffered exile. Averroes is an intellectual titan, both in his own right and as a transmitter of ideas between ancient Greece and Modern Europe. His commentary on Aristotle was so influential that St Thomas Aquinas referred to him with profound respect as ‘The Commentator’.

                    But why did an Islamic philosopher achieve such esteem in the mind of a Christian Saint, how did Averroes seek to reconcile Greek philosophy with Islamic theology and can he really be said to have sown the seeds of the Renaissance in Europe? ***

                    Discussion GUESTS:
                    Amira Bennison
                    Peter Adamson
                    Sir Anthony Kenny.

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                    J.Deane
                    March 18, 2016 at 10:40 pm

                    RE: Reason Vs. Revelation Debate:

                    Al Ghazali

                    Ghazali Says,Sufism is correct and that makes you closer to God. In fortunately, the Iblis, Satan following Wahhabies and their clones ISIS Salafis, etc. want to call Sufism and Sufis and other Muslims non-Muslims and kill them.

                    Wahhabis are truly misled by the Satan, Iblis.

                    Al-Ghazālī (In Our Time, 19/3/15)

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t-deY6oYo4&ebc=ANyPxKqQZctdPSyhuRBnh0QemU5o4xFkkI0GqDSiujZf6KIhJK7QkAi5aF0ue53H79dpE8TRFYE69S9tsJV5qmnyvtOotO7ReQ

                    Published on Mar 20, 2015

                    *** Al-Ghazali, a major philosopher and theologian of the late 11th century was born in Persia, and was one of the most prominent intellectuals of his age, working in such centres of learning as Baghdad, Damascus and Jerusalem. He is now seen as a key figure in the development of Islamic thought, not just refining the theology of Islam but also building on the existing philosophical tradition inherited from the ancient Greeks. ***

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                    J.Deane
                    March 18, 2016 at 10:40 pm

                    RE: Revelation vs Reason Debate. Avorroes

                    Was “Shiekh” Mogamed Abdul Wahhab or Ibn Taymiah versed in Reason and Philosophy?

                    Al-Ghazali has dealt with this at length. However, he was incorrect on the Philosophy that was pointed out by Averroes.

                    In Theology, he said that Sufis are closer to Allah SWT, whereas the “Sheikh” Abdul Wahhab was trying to kill the Sufis along with the Shias.

                    Why? Because he was mused by Satan, Iblis. Both Abdul Wahhab and Ibn Taymiah lacked reason and Philosophy, and therefore blind to reason and philosophical thought. Both would have believed what Joshua said about the Sun being stopped for 24 hours, in the Bible.

                    See What Averroes had to Say about Islam, Islamic Philosophy and Reason. There is no infliction, with Aristotelianism.

                    Averroës (AKA Ibn Rushd or Ibn Roschd or, in full, Abu al-Walid Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Rushd) (1126 – 1198) was a Spanish-Arabic philosopher, physician, lawyer and polymath from the Andalusia region of southern Spain in the Medieval period. After his death, the Averroism movement grew up around his teachings, and his work greatly influenced the subsequent development of Scholasticism in Western Europe.

                    Averroës is perhaps most famous for his translations and detailed commentaries on the works of Aristotle, which earned for him the title of the “The Commentator”. These were based on imperfect Arabic translations, not Greek originals (it is believed that he was unacquainted with Greek or Syriac), and he did not have access to some of the texts (e.g. the”Politics”). The commentaries were organized into three levels: the Jami (a simplified overview), the Talkhis (an intermediate commentary with more critical material) and the Tafsir (an advanced study of Aristotelian thought in a Muslim context).

                    Many of his commentaries were translated into Hebrew and then into Latin (or sometimes directly into Latin) in the 12th and 13th Century. Many of the works on Logic and Metaphysics have been permanently lost, while others, including some of the longer commentaries, have only survived in Latin or Hebrew translation, and not in the original Arabic.

                    The significance of these works is that, before 1150, only a few translated works of Aristotle existed in Latin Europe, and they were not studied much or given much credence by monastic scholars, and it was through the Latin translations of Averroës’ work that the legacy of Aristotle became more widely known in the West, with particular importance for the Medieval Scholastic movement. Averroës also argued for the emancipation of science and philosophy from official Ash’ari Muslim theology, and some writers regard him as a precursor to modern secularism, or even the founding father of secular thought in Western Europe.

                    His most important original philosophical work was “Tahafut al-tahafut” (“The Incoherence of the Incoherence”), in which he defended Aristotelian philosophy against the claims of al-Ghazali in his “Tahafut al-falasifa” (“The Incoherence of the Philosophers”). Al-Ghazali had argued that Aristotelianism, especially as presented in the earlier writings of Avicenna, was self-contradictory and an affront to the teachings of Islam. Averroës contended both that al-Ghazali’s arguments were mistaken, but also that, in any case, Avicenna’s interpretations were a distortion of genuine Aristotelianism, so that, in effect, al-Ghazali was aiming at the wrong target.

                    For Averroës, there was no conflict between religion and philosophy, believing rather that they were just different ways of reaching the same truth. He identified two kinds of knowledge of truth: knowledge of truth from religion (for the unlettered multitude, based in faith and untestable); and knowledge of truth from philosophy (the real truth, but reserved for an elite few who had the intellectual capacity to undertake such study). He was bold enough to claim the superiority of reason and philosophy over faith and knowledge founded on faith, and to emphasize the independent use of reason, and the idea that the philosophical and religious worlds are separate entities.

                    He believed in an eternal universe, and in a soul which is divided into two parts (an individual part, and a divine part which is eternal and shared by all). His belief in the then radical idea that “existence precedes essence” was developed much later by the Transcendent Theosophy of Mulla Sadra (c. 1571 – 1640) in the 17th Century and by Existentialism in the 20th Century.

                    Averroës was also a highly-regarded legal scholar of the Maliki School, and he produced a textbook of Maliki doctrine in a comparative framework, as well as detailed commentaries based on the works of other legal scholars. In medicine, he wrote a medical encyclopedia called “Kulliyat” (usually translated as “Generalities”, i.e. general medicine), as well as a compilation of the works of prominent ancient Greek physician Galen (129 – 200 A.D.) and a commentary on the “Qanun fi ‘t-tibb” (“The Canon of Medicine”) of Avicenna. He also made his own contributions to physics (particularly elements of mechanics such as force, kinetic energy and inertia), astronomy (arguing for a strictly concentric model of the universe, and describing sunspots and an opaque moon) and psychology (active and passive intellect).

                    http://www.philosophybasics.com/philosophers_averroes.html

                    Aristotelianism is a school or tradition of philosophy from the Socratic (or Classical) period of ancient Greece, that takes its defining inspiration from the work of the 4th Century B.C. philosopher Aristotle.

                    http://www.philosophybasics.com/movements_aristotelianism.html

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      [Edited out]

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    I do not know how things will be in “Modi”fied India.

    But I remember hearing in 1998 a rendering of “Vande Mataram” with a much stronger public appeal (and controversy relating to its context) in India than “Dunno Budunge” at home. It was by AR Rahman. It sounded rather rock as opposed to the the solemn customary version.

    People enjoyed it and forgot it in a couple of years.
    No accusations or mud slinging, perhaps because Internet was not abused for personal attack then and there was no “social media” so to speak.

    Let alone political intolerance in the country, the kind of personal intolerance and abuse on a responsible website like this is unhealthy.

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      sekara

      I have given the links to four different interpretation of Vande Mataram above in my previous comment.

      There are more if anyone care to listen.

      Artist must be allowed to interpret music as he/she feels at the time and place without molesting the true meaning of the song. Time change, new musical instruments are added to the previous ones.

      A R Rahuman is experimenting music without instruments (without actually touching them, in the USA), sensors track finger movements and hopefully one day computers will play music without instruments.

      I may not like it but will have to adapt and change my preferences.

      The most worrying thing is Tamil and Sinhala languages are going to die unless both people advance their knowledge and activities in science, trade and finance.

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        Thanks
        The reason why I referred specifically to ARR was that musically it was furthest from tradition and timed for the 50th Republic Day.

        More importantly, the issue at stake here is deviation from ‘tradition’; and the apparent ‘offence’ it seems to cause.

        (Lata M’s version referred to is not the song itself but adaptation of parts. But as you say there are plenty more)

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    Shyamon/Izeth,
    Listen to Mendelesshon’s “Duetto” Opus 38 no 6. There are plenty of versions in the youtube.

    This is just one with a slightly fast tempo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXHVLlQq_b0

    Shyamon,
    Surely this is not a raga based melody.

    MJA

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      MJA – thanks. I’ve also just heard a lovely version by Murray Perahia where the similarity seems clearer to me. I suppose it is a case of influence, subconscious, not plagiarism. Or perhaps Dunno Budunge is a variation, having its own legitimacy as a variation. – IH

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      MJA,

      All I can hear is something that sounds like a variation of : Danno Budunge Sri Dha…and it stops there. (that’s probably about 1% of the song)

      Once would find that in world music, there is some similarity in sectional scores worldwide. After all it’s humans who are writing pieces, and minds worldwide with music and emotion, think alike.

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    IH,

    In the final paragraph of your piece you state that KJ acknowledges “that the stupendous negative reaction has been for her a searing experience that can be expected to leave a permanent scar on her psyche.”

    One must hope that the good lady is not going to be so badly affected. That also would seem an over-reaction as some of the criticisms of her performance have been. As you have stated, earlier in the piece, while KJ’s rendering of the song would have found acceptance elsewhere, “the occasion of the National Day celebrations at Galle Face Green was the wrong milieu for it.” And that lies at the heart of the matter. She was asked to present it to the ‘wrong’ audience. If KJ can appreciate that, then she should be able to see things in their correct perspective and not let the experience leave a bitter taste. The lesson will also not be lost on her and the organisers of the event, to be more careful the next time to ensure that what is presented is going to be acceptable to the audience.

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    My comments on the “origin” of Danno Budunge must be read in conjunction with Arun Dias Bandaranyake’s comments on Colombo Telegraph on 4 March 2016.

    From a historical context:

    1) Unless we can lay hands on Mendelssohn’s original manuscript (passed on to his friend to be taken to Ceylon around 1830) which does not seem to exist anymore, nothing can be definitive. But we can conjecture the origin of the Mendelsshon’s Duetto Op 38 no 6 with intelligence.
    2) There is historical evidence that Mendelsshon was in London in 1829/30 and met Johnson who requested Mendelsshon to create a melody to commemorate an event in Ceylon
    3) Johnson took it to Ceylon by ship and possibly got a musician (has to be a English one) to arrange it as a song (whether in Sinhala or English is not known)- there is evidence that this has happened from correspondence between the two.
    4) Looks like this song/ melody survived and was sung by various people in Ceylon.
    5) Mendelsshohn almost surely did not retain a copy of the composition that he made for his friend Johnson.
    6) Between 1829-1845 Mendelssohn composed 48 miniature works known as ‘songs without words”. Mendelsshon must have retained at least part of the melody in his mind (having composed it) and used that later as the theme (from memory) for his Duetto Op 38 no 6.

    MJA

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      MJA :

      We can also conjecture that as Mendelssohn had never been to Sri Lanka, he wouldn’t have had a clue of how to have create a melody for this exotic isle. Therefore, Johnson hummed or keyed for Johnson a Lankan melody or two to give Mendelssohn some musical elucidation on Lanka.

      Since Mendelssohn created his Duetto Op 38 no 6 AFTER he met Johnson, this gives conjecture that Duetto Op 38 no 6 has some basis in the Lankan ambience.

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      MJA,

      We can also conjecture that as Mendelssohn had never been to Sri Lanka, he wouldn’t have had a clue of how to have create a melody for this exotic isle. Therefore, Johnson hummed or keyed for Johnson a Lankan melody or two to give Mendelssohn some musical elucidation.

      Since Mendelssohn created his Duetto Op 38 no 6 AFTER he met Johnson, this gives conjecture that Duetto Op 38 no 6 has some basis in the Lankan ambience.

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        *how to create

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    The only crime that the wonderfully talented Kishani Jayasinghe committed was placing her glittering pearls before a herd of feral swine. Then it became open season for the boo-boys to turn her performance into a game of political football.

    It happens everywhere, and everyday in the wide world of artistic rendition. Not every one will praise, not every one will offer ‘constructive’ criticism. Simply, music, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder, and in Sri Lanka, with its 2510-year old history, most are one-eyed when it comes to artistic tastes (or tolerance of other).

    BUT, Kishani will return to her metier where she has global acclamation, and Sri Lanka would have bruised daughter; scorned at home, loved elsewhere. How many times have I heard similar stories.

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      Spring Koha

      “The only crime that the wonderfully talented Kishani Jayasinghe committed was placing her glittering pearls before a herd of feral swine. “

      Wow!. What a great succinct summary of the “crime” by Kishani Jayasinghe.

      Amarasiri just added a few words, just for further clarification, to your statement “who consider stupidity is a virtue”.

      “The only crime that the wonderfully talented Kishani Jayasinghe committed was placing her glittering pearls before a herd of feral swine, who consider stupidity is a virtue “

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    Hope some duplicitous person/s won’t suddenly produce an “authentic” copy of Mendelssohn’s supposed Danno Budunge.

    Also, hope that Danno Budunge and Namo Namo Matha won’t be photo-shopped and put then put into minor-keys of Turkish or Indian style, and then put on YouTube pretending it is Indian or Turkish……with lots of bluff made up Indian or Turkish names to authenticate(maybe the dates of the YouTube will tell….unless that too is buyable)

    We will be wary…….

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    Izeth Hussein claims that he virtually ran the Non Aligned Conference??
    cn he enlighten us bout what he did previously particularly what educational qualifications he has? He undoubtedly has a big ego.

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      Percy, good Sir. You are entering an unpleasant path. Get ready for some raw filth in reply from a man who, I believe, falsely claims he
      was presented with the title of one of the five best diplomats in the entire wide world???? Some of us in these pages are now used to take the man’s regular boastful claims with a pinch of salt, if you like. But we have managed to put this congenital liar in his place – meeting fire with more fire.

      Backlash

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        Backlash – poor old Backie boy is now hallucinating. I have never used filth in my language. Can he point to even one instance? He can’t.His technique is to fling filth at me in the hope that some of it will stick.But it boomerangs on him.Keep barking Backie boy. The IH caravan keeps moving – IH

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          Izeth Hussain’s comments are mired, as usual, in gutter language he cannot identify decent language from the profane. He is also delusionary he is some sort of White Supremacist from the U.S. Bible belt. The truth is, to use his fond description, this half-breed is nothing but a uncultured thambiya. His words – not mine. I take his point he has a caravan culture and mentality – gained of inspiration from cultures that cling on to savage habits and the medieval.

          BTW, why are you, self-claimed super intelligent being, silent to my comments (March 15 – 7/29 pm) addressed to J. Deane but all about you. You respond on the same date (9/09 pm) but cunningly avoid my specific critique of your familiar codswallop. This includes the stupidity insisting Danno Budunge is “John de Silva’s pop song” Such an “expert|” takes on to himself to comment on the bygone musical geniuses of the cultured and civilised West.

          Backlash

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    Ramona,

    If you are adamant that the melodies of Danno Budunge, National Anthem and for that matter popular melodies of Amaradeva, Victor Ratnayake, Sunil Santha et al are firmly rooted only in the indigenous tradition of our island and has no external influences whatsoever – good luck- you can swim in your well as much as you want. Also Ananda Samarakone’s national anthem and other songs were influenced by Tagore’s Ravidra Sangeeth Tradition. There is nothing wrong in this.
    MJA

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      MJA,
      Looks like this is the first time you have run into our Lady Ramona.I used to think that she didn’t actually exist, but was a computer program deliberately inserted by CT to keep contributors on their toes.

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        HuH? HuH?
        • i
        • dO
        • nOT

        •cOMPUTE

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      MJA,

      I agree that Lankan music has a lot of musical style from India. Since our nearest neighbor and most of our genetic makeup is Indian, we naturally liaison with their kind of musical style also. We subdue our Lankan tenacity for appealing melody with the Indian style, so as to tone down the emotion that our melodies cause. Buddhism tends to tone down excess of emotion that music can bring on.

      Through the ages, we evolved away from India, and our appealing melody tenacity might be due to the Vedda blood and influence, and others…..(maybe some elements of the Lion also).

      But the most telling reason is egalitarian Buddhism. All facets of society interacted with each other and learned from each other. Incorporating uplifting melody in with daily life came very easily to Lankan society.

      India on the other hand dwelled in their caste system. Almost a billion people lived in groupings that were so cut off from each other. They couldn’t harmonize with each other in quite the same way as Lankans did. When it comes to musical creation, there was a mental block. Their attempts to create melody ended in listening to animal sounds, bird sounds, heartbeat, bodily sounds, and…………whatever.

      With the Middle-Easterners, desert climes made it impossible for tribes to integrate and interact with each other. Furthermore, the religion prohibited much advancement in their music.

      The choice Sri Lanka has is whether to go on the European path that harmonized and symphonized their music with all of their excessive emotions- further exacerbated with Roman style religion, or in Indian style that we are related to, and that suits us just fine because in the end, it is very calming.

      But in this present era of globalization, with European influence all over, European culture is a new standard that we can also incorporate into our heritage. And Kishani Jayasinghe did look and sound very beautiful and appealing, singing in the Lankan breeze of the evening, about flocks and flocks of swans and the many flowers in the lakes of Anuradhapura.

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      MJA /Ramona

      “Sunil Santha et al are firmly rooted only in the indigenous tradition of our island and has no external influences whatsoever – good luck- you can swim in your well as much as you want.”

      All one has to do is recognize that except for the Naive Veddah Aethho, all others are Paras. Can’t the Music be Para too?

      The Proof is in theit Bodies, in the form of DNA.

      http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v59/n1/full/jhg2013112a.html

      “Through a comparison with the mtDNA HVS-1 and part of HVS-2 of Indian database, both Tamils and Sinhalese clusters were affiliated with Indian subcontinent populations than Vedda people who are believed to be the native population of the island of Sri Lanka.”

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    Ramona
    I was only commenting on the possible genesis of Danno Budunge song which curiously seem to have some connection with Mendelssohn. This is a song of a very recent origin (on a historical scale). When it comes to music, I am not interested in anthropology , Veddas or the mythical Lion, or Buddhism for that matter. For some reason people in Sri Lanka are brought up with a bias that western music is not good and must be shunned. Just as there are beautiful compositions based on Ragadhari music there are even more beautiful western music (say) from Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Schubert et al. Why not embrace these as well in addition to ragadhari music?
    MJA

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      MJA,

      Anthropology is important because it proves that a melody, so profound as Danno Budunge, can come from the heart of the Sinhala soul.

      That it’s melody curiously seems to have some connection with Mendelssohn, shows that that’s how the Christians got the music for Hymn for Ceylon to play on the church organ.

      Oh yes, Lankans can appreciate European classical music. But even a lot of Europeans don’t care for their classics.

      Sri Lankans shun Western music because the advent of the Europeans into Sri Lanka brought them misery and pain. Therefore, they feel there is something evil in it.

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      MJA,

      You say :This is a song of a very recent origin (on a historical scale).

      Truth is, Sinhalese did not write their music in notation form. Their songs were passed down as “tunes-of-ear” through the generations. They were eventually put into to European musical notation when Europeans came to our shores. Therefore is the reason Danno Budunge looks of very recent origin (on a historical scale).

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    Therese,
    Only the folk songs or folk music (pael kavi, karaththa kavi, vannam, pirith chanting, vaedi gee etc )which has a very limited range has been passed down by oral tradidition. You would lean on a maha sampradaaya like western or eastern music to create aesthetic delight. There is no evidence that in Sri Lanka we had a maha sampradaaya. This was the battle that all musicians faced from Samarakone, Sunil Santha, Makuloluwa, Amaradeva to Victor etc. It is quite clear that the origin of Danno Budunge melody can be traced to Mendelssohn. (Refer Arun Dias Bandaranayake’s posting on 4 March 2016). Danno Budunge is not a folk song. I can also say that its lyrics is grammatically very faulty and not refined Sinhala: MJA

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    MJA,

    My previous replies were on your posting of Arun Dias Bandaranayake’s article.

    pael kavi, karaththa kavi, vannam, pirith chanting, vaedi gee etc. are chants, like Benedictine chants and harvest chants are in Europe.

    No, we did not need maha sampradaaya like India, which was intricate musical networking for exclusive caste groups. We had instead, egalitarian networking between all communities in daily life. From that arose the innate ability for anyone in the country to form melody.

    It was therefore never a battle for our older musicians (1900’s era), because melody came to them so easily. If Buddhism didn’t encourage too much emotive a melody around, when the Europeans came in, Sinhala people took their chance to also exercise their freedom of musical expression. Some Buddhist clergy weren’t too happy about that. And yet we have very melodious Bakthi Geetha.

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    What does it matter where anything came from?
    If it got indigenized in course of time and a people see it as part of their identity, let us celebrate it.
    Acrimony was triggered by a wild claim about the “Turkish origin” of the melody. I wish IH was more sensible and avoided wild speculation.

    All living languages, religions and cultures are blends.
    Let us look at the rich and healthy aspects and be proud and pleased about the good choice and taste of our ancestors.

    Sentiment often mars serious comment.

    If Therese could kindly take time to research more and identify the source melody, there will be room for informed debate.

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    sekara,

    All research out there has already been mentioned in the comments of this article. Next is analyzing the research.

    And one finds that Mendelssohn’s piece came *AFTER* Danno Budunge. One finds that out of 215 characters with spaces in Danno Budunge’s main tune, the tune of Mendelssohn’s, that sounds a variation of Danno Budunge is only about 12.56%.

    Even if Danno Budunge type music was not apparently present because there was nothing to record it with (like the music recorded from the early 1900’s so we can listen to it over a 100 years later), – the cultural base was yet there to give rise to those tunes.

    Like the folk chants that come in performances that we can see on You Tube, are also the aesthetic performances of melody and tune that come out even more often, like the Buddhist Bakthi Geetha.

    It’s true we go to India to learn technique. But when we come back, our natural aptitude for melody cannot be held back, and bursts forth into all kinds of pretty tunes.

    And sekera. It really does matter where anything comes from. It is essential history, culture and heredity of the people. Such things will give us awareness on how to proceed as a nation. Are we to sell to India, for example, feeling that they can teach us more. Or are we to see ourselves having our own identity, and proceeding with more care and confidence.

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      sekara,

      All I am saying is that Lankans have a different aptitude towards melody-making compared to Indians. This is due to Buddhist egalitarian virtues, which produces cohesive societies – one that reflects in our Lankan music-creation. And if Buddhism attempts to tone down excess emotions our music can bring, that too is a very good thing.

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    RTF
    Thanks.
    I have perhaps a slightly different world outlook but not seriously contradictory.
    What meant when I said “What does it matter where anything came from?” is that when a people can recognize things of value and adapt them to their circumstances, with time source(s) becomes irrelevant, with the adapted thing establishing an identity of its own.

    I also had in mind Sarathchandra. He made theatre with Sinhala identity (or Lankan identity to be more precise) using a variety of sources. It is wasting time to analyse piece by piece and determine source. The assembled product is Lankan and has no other identity.
    While culture is always in a state of flux, there is a thread of identity running through, often unnoticed.
    To me Danno Budunge has for it a Lankan identity and is ours to cherish.

    Think of the Peruvian Indian hat. Only they wear it. Do they care about the source? It is part of their identity, and no one can take it away from them.

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      sekara,

      It’s very true what you say. But one yet can’t get away from the true analysis of the situation.

      South American culture was almost obliterated by the colonists – so those bowler hats were something they took up quite readily. (or maybe Peruvian women used to wear them to avoid being sacrificed to the Inca and Aztec gods)

      Not so for Sri Lanka. Sinhala heritage endured even through colonialism, especially in the religious front.

      Buddhists would have found it offensive to take up a tune from a Christian religious service. If it came directly to them from Mendelsohn, it wouldn’t have sat well with them….unless it was reminiscent of a tune they already had.

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