27 October, 2020

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Was The London Killing Of A British Soldier ‘Terrorism’?

By  –

Glenn Greenwald

Two men yesterday engaged in a horrific act of violence on the streets of London by using what appeared to be a meat cleaver to hack to death a British soldier. In the wake of claims that the assailants shouted “Allahu Akbar” during the killing, and a video showing one of the assailants citing Islam as well as a desire to avenge and stop continuous UK violence against Muslims, media outlets (including the Guardian) and British politicians instantly characterized the attack as “terrorism”.

That this was a barbaric and horrendous act goes without saying, but given the legal, military, cultural and political significance of the term “terrorism”, it is vital to ask: is that term really applicable to this act of violence? To begin with, in order for an act of violence to be “terrorism”, many argue that it must deliberately target civilians. That’s the most common means used by those who try to distinguish the violence engaged in by western nations from that used by the “terrorists”: sure, we kill civilians sometimes, but we don’t deliberately target them the way the “terrorists” do.

What definition of the term includes this horrific act of violence but excludes the acts of the US, the UK and its allies?

Read more in the Guardian

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    Depends on ethnicity. If Muslims or Tamils indulge in violence, then it is definitely Terrorism. If the violence is by NATO or Sinhalese it is prevention of Terrorism.

    If you don’t know, know you now, n***er! Biggie Smalls(RIP)

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    No.

    This was not Terrorism. Why? It did not target the general population. It targeted a specific member of a group, soldiers, who likely carried out state sponsored terrorism and killings in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is like the Jewish Groups hunting down Nazis.

    These soldiers, are not much different from the Nazi killers. Since the UN is controlled by the killers, USA and UK, whose soldiers did the killings, technically, these soldiers are legitimate targets.

    Drone killing of civilians, are in fact terrorism, falling under the definition below, as its victims often are civilians. “systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population “

    What is the Definition of Terrorism? Merriam Webster

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/terrorism

    terrorism noun (Concise Encyclopedia)

    Systematic use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective. It has been used throughout history by political organizations of both the left and the right, by nationalist and ethnic groups, and by revolutionaries. Although usually thought of as a means of destabilizing or overthrowing existing political institutions, terror also has been employed by governments against their own people to suppress dissent; examples include the reigns of certain Roman emperors, the French Revolution (see Reign of Terror), Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union under Stalin, and Argentina during the “dirty war” of the 1970s. Terrorism’s impact has been magnified by the deadliness and technological sophistication of modern-day weapons and the capability of the media to disseminate news of such attacks instantaneously throughout the world. The deadliest terrorist attack ever occurred in the United States on Sept. 11, 2001 (see September 11 attacks), when members of al-Qaeda terrorist network hijacked four commercial airplanes and crashed two of them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center complex in New York City and one into the Pentagon building near Washington, D.C.; the fourth plane crashed near Pittsburgh, Pa. The crashes resulted in the collapse of much of the World Trade Center complex, the destruction of part of the southwest side of the Pentagon, and the deaths of some 3,000 people.

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      This is NOT terrorism. This is counter action.

      This is action against the agents of terrorism who performed acts of terrorism on behalf of their masters.

      Who were the Masters?
      Nazi Germany: Hitler, Goring, Goebbels, Eichmann, All “Christians” Myths

      USA: George Bush, “Christian” fundamentalist supported Myths

      UK: Blair,”Christian” he goes to Church-Myths.

      It was these “Christians”, who Invented Antisemitism, and accusing the Jews for killing, Jesus, who was born and died a Jew, and their dogma claims that Jesus had to die for their sins, inherited from Adam and Eve, Myths.

      Slavery, Genocide, colonialism, etc. etc., still continues.

      However, it is becoming harder and harder.

      The key is to send the message to the agents of state terrorism, you are responsible, and yoi will be hunted down and punished.

      Like Eichmann who killed millions of Jews
      Osama bin Laden etc.

      Milosevic, etc.

      Why is George Bush still free?

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    After reading the article in full, it is obvious that as long as the US, and its allies engage in their double standards,these horrendous and inhuman incidents will continue.

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    This article has no purpose other than to serve as a conversation piece to so-called intellectuals. Definitions dont mean a darn thing to a man whose neck is slaughtered like in an abbatoir.

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    I think terrorism could be defined as acts of violence against civilians perpetrated on a mass scale by organised groups. In which case, govts such as Israel and Syria would also fall under the classification of terrorists. A big question mark lies over the war in Afghanistan and Iraq as thousands of civilians have also been killed ostensibly as collateral damage. How many civilians killed in proportion to the target is the question, 1% to 90%? Also there is the prejudgement that the target is a terrorist without due process of law. How this is arrived at and based on what evidence and who decides is the question. Was the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki justified? etc.

    Acts such as this and the Boston bombing carried out by individuals would be classified as criminal acts. The use of household implements such as pressure cookers, kitchen knives would support this point of view.

    The Islamic injunction on Jihad is often quoted as justification for such acts. In Islam the permission to fight is given under the following conditions

    Permission (to fight) is given to those who are being attacked, because they have been wronged. And surely God measures out help for them. – Surah al-Hajj verse 39

    And what is with you that you do not fight in the path of God and (in the path) of the oppressed of men and women and children, those who say “Our Sustainer, take us out from this city, its people are wrongdoers, and decree for us a protector, and decree for us a helper”. – Surah an-Nisa verse 75

    God does not forbid that you do good and make justice for those who do not fight you in the religion or drive you out from your homes. Indeed, God loves those who do justice. God only forbids your friendship with those who fight you in the religion and drive you out from your homes and back those who drive you out. And who befriends them, such are wrongdoers. – Surah al-Mumtahana verses 8-9

    It is very clear that permission is given only in case of previous aggression by the other party.Following verses recommend inclination towards peace

    Fight in the path of God those who fight you, but do not aggress. Surely God does not love the aggressors. And fight them where you come upon them, and send them out from where they have sent you out, for persecution is a worse thing than fighting. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque (in Mecca) unless they fight you there, but if they fight you, then fight them back. That is the reward of the rejectors. Then if they cease, so God is All-Forgiving, Gentle. And fight them until there is no more persecution and the religion is for God. But if they cease, so let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. – Surah al-Baqarat verses 190-193

    And if they incline to peace, so you must incline to it. And trust in God, for He hears and knows all. – Surah al-Anfal verse 61

    Do not fight those who join a folk with whom you have a treaty, or they come to you with their breasts constricted against fighting you or fighting their own folk. And if only God had willed, He could have given them an authority over you so they would have fought you. So if they stand aloof and do not fight you, and they speak a word of peace, then God has not given you a way against them. – Surah an-Nisa verse 90

    So the inclination must be towards peace. Despite the various allegations and misinterpretations of the quranic verses by Islamophobes, this is the interpretation given by the vast majority of the Islamic Clergy.

    The problem arises due to a few radical extremist who choose to misinterpret the Quran and lead people astray. The ongoing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are regional encounters and must be treated as such to avoid getting involved in a global war as is the inclination of the Jihadists and even some Govts. Islam and Muslims cannot be targetted to justify wars being prosecuted with political and territorial ambitions. As stated by President Obama on thursday

    Washington (CNN) — In the past few weeks, we’ve seen a British soldier hacked to death with a meat cleaver on the streets of London and bombers blowing up spectators at the Boston Marathon.

    On the surface, terrorism is alive and well.

    So how should the United States react to these continuing threats?

    For the first time on Thursday, President Obama laid out the full scope of his proposed counterterrorism strategy, and it boiled down to this: George W. Bush’s endless war on terror is over.

    And that’s appropriate, since the enemy Bush went to war with after September 11 has largely been defeated.

    Obama’s speech at the National Defense University in Washington was designed to lay the political groundwork to wind down America’s longest war, the war that began when al Qaeda destroyed the World Trade Center and a wing of the Pentagon 12 years ago.

    Thursday’s speech was the first time Obama had delivered an overarching framework for how to conceptualize the conflict that has defined U.S. national security policy since 9/11.

    Other speeches by Obama have focused on aspects of that conflict, such as Guantanamo and the Afghan war. But no speech has made such an expansive examination of the war against al Qaeda and its allies in all its manifestations, from drone strikes to detention policies to a clear-eyed assessment of the scope of the threats posed by al Qaeda and its affiliates, as well as by those “homegrown” extremists who attacked the Boston Marathon in April.

    Much of the coverage of the speech has centered on the measures the president outlined to impose greater constraints on CIA drone strikes and to try to hasten the eventual closing of Guantanamo.

    But the most significant aspect of the speech was the president’s case that the “perpetual wartime footing” and “boundless war on terror” that has permeated so much of American life since 9/11 should come to an end.

    Obama argued that the time has come to redefine the kind of conflict that the United States is engaged in: “We must define the nature and scope of this struggle, or else it will define us.”

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      Safa,
      Every side in every conflict in the Middle East has its own mufti who will interpret Islam and hand down fatwas, religious injunctions, favourable to that side’s interests. Using one approach or another to exploit Islam’s complex, often contradictory, religious laws, every Mullah, sheikh or Ayatollah can find justification for the need and duty to carry out any act. They can provide an Islamic seal of approval for anything.

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    Good word play here. Looks like Glenn has too much time on his hands. He better be advised to go, catch a flight to Mars if he has nothing else to do.

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      Pluto might be a better destination. We will be less likely to see anymore trash of this sort for sometime to come

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    What is the difference between this drivel and the claim of the government of Sri Lanka that its war against terrorism did not have a single civilian casualty? Of course the government of Sri Lanka did not deliberately target civilians. It targeted only terrorists. Now this is exactly what this Mr. Greenwald is claiming on behalf of the British government.

    But what gives the lie to the claims of both governments is the way they respond to the deaths that inevitably attend armed actions. Tens of thousands of civilians get killed and does one hear any mourning for them? If every civilian death in all those countries where the British army is actively engaged in operations were genuinely mourned by the British army and the British Taxpayer, then it is hardly likely that the kind of incident in question would have occurred. If this genuine solidarity with civilians were to be expressed THEN and only THEN will those civilians who oppose terrorism be able to voice their opposition. Until then the war will remain a war against people rather than a war against a small group of terrorists.

    Glenn Greenwald is no baby. He is a lawyer and writes on US national security issues for the Guardian. Given his background this piece can only be read as a tongue in cheek apoligia for the kind of barbaric sentiments being expressed by the British public. He should know better and the Guardian should know better than to publish such a blatant justification of this SHOCK and self righteous outrage that is sweeping Britain along with deep undertones of savagery that may at any time burst forth in violence.

    The information now surfacing that the M15 has been tampering with the psychology of the killer is worthy of note and the role being played by intelligence agencies in the generation of these kinds of events must be carefully examined. Only a strong personality with a sharp ability to distinguish what is in the greater good and what is not, can resist the overtures of these sinister operators and continue to maintain its equilibrium and engage in day to day life. There are very few individuals on the planet today who can resist their psychological manipulations. Many of those who were able to resist have yes, you guessed it- been driven crazy! They are still alive and well aware of the serpentine moves of this evil force that claims to be the intelligence of the human species but in truth is no more than the slave of wealth, power and sheer inhuman limitless greed.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

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      Curiouser and curiouser! The fact that the suspect converted only in 2003 and now the news that he had contacts with MI5. It would appear that he was a MI5 agent who went bad. Even the person who revealed this information has now been arrested on some other grounds???

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    Glenn Greenwald no its a very unfortunate unavoidable accident is that sound better for you.

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    Glenn Greenwald sorry i missed to point out this was all George Bush’s fault.

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    I feel it was a clear message to ordinary British citizens that their government, complicit in the murder of millions in poor Mid East countries, that they shouldn’t be oblivious to their representatives’ actions.

    It could also be a message that any black or brown person on the streets of London can and will harm them back (ie a soldier represents the crimes committed in Afghanistan for example)and that they (White Londoners) should not feel safe in their own homes while they wreak havoc in remote and unseen, unreported parts of the world.

    The gruesome means adopted, do fit in with the term “terrorism” as it is a deliberate attempt to cause terror among unarmed civilians, just like when heavy guns and bombs are used against them elsewhere.

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    Practicing Muslims all over the world hope that the fullest extent of the law rains on the two criminals for murder in Woolich. Islam is very clear on the rules of engagement on defensive and offensive operations against their attackers. Some Muslims may find a way to rationalise this horrific act based on what’s going on the other side of the world. Human beings are innate in nature to take revenge on their oppressor. However, there is a better way on responding than through acts of violence to those not involved with the conflict.

    On the Day when every soul will find itself confronted with all that it hath done of good and all that it hath done of evil (every soul) will long that there might be a mighty space of distance between it and that (evil). Allah biddeth you beware of Him. And Allah is Full of Pity for (His) bondmen. (The Noble Quran 3:30)

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    What you saw yesterday is just child’d play when think of what is to come from the mad lot.

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      Mad lots are guys like you who are only in Sri.Lanka. What do you thing about violence in Buddhist texts and Buddhism?

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        Dodo, You are confused; how can you understand Buddha Dhamma?

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          Leela, there is nothing to get confused. Fact is there is nothing in Buddha Dharma. It is emptiness (nirvana)

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          Dodo, In Paris another one of your mad lot stabbed the neck of a French soldier. Leave out Buddhism for you have no intellect to understand it. Think of you mad lot are exceeding the limits of European toleration. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dark ages Muslims faced in Spain under Ferdinand and Isabella 500 years ago is back.
          Leela

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    This is an outburst of Pent up Fury against state terrorism.

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    The latest reports are that the alleged ‘terrorist’ was invited to join the MI5 (ie offered a job) some 6 months ago. Make what you will , of that.

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    Haven’t you heard Stockholm was overrun by gangs of ‘Youths’ shouting “Allah akbar!” Husby is a neighborhood in western Stockholm which in 2007 had just over 11,000 inhabitants, fully 81.9% of whom were immigrants or the children of immigrants. The other interesting fact in the brief Wikipedia entry on Husby is that the area contains “many runestones…remnants from when Vikings used to live here.” There are, alas, few other signs of the area’s Viking heritage.

    On May 14, when Stockholm police was forced to shoot a man who was wielding a machete at them. He died. A “community group” called Megafonen urged locals to demonstrate “for social justice and again st police violence.” That’s how it all started. Last Sunday evening, apparently acting upon this suggestion, Husby erupted in the kind of wide-scale “youth” violence that has plagued suburbs in France and elsewhere for years. A school, a garage, and almost 100 cars were set on fire. And a gang attacked a cop. As of 9:36 PM Monday, Stockholm time, it was being reported that police officers were “running for their lives from youth gangs.” Four or five “youths” beat up a cop on a bridge before he managed to flee. As he ran off, a girl could be heard laughing and shouting “Allah akbar!”

    Welcome to Europe’s collective future….rioting, mayhem, and a willful reluctance on the part of the elite to identify the who and the why. But worry not, folks….such a future is only temporary. 30 or 40 years from now, the riots won’t be started by “disaffected” Muslim youth egged on by leftists. They’ll be started by the Friday mosque sermons of the local Imam. And they won’t be directed at police, but at those native European Christians who haven’t yet converted…..with the police watching passively from a distance. Stockholm will resemble Cairo, Paris will resemble Algiers, London will resemble Karachi, and Berlin will resemble Istanbul. The “myth” of Eurabia will be realized in all its un-acknowledged infamy.

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    Was the killing by the Tamil Tigers of thousands of Tamils, Sinhalese and Moslems in Sri Lanka terrorism?

    Not according to the Guardian, the BBC and Channel 4. It was merely rebellion.

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      My thoughts exactly! Generally you find them rattling about ” atrocities ,ongoing genocide , government thugs in Sri Lanka , shedding crocodile tears for the SL Tamils , etc,, but one of their own is butchered in broad day light with by-standers recording the incident and hardly a word said!

      Just a bunch of British hypocrites who are in Favor of their government bombing middle east countries … They just don’t see it as terrorism cos it’s ok for the White skin to do as they please…

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    Mr. Glenn Greenwald.

    If you go to the bottom of the problem, it is the clash of two cultures both of which came from the same origin and now fight for world domination.

    In other words, two Abrahamic religions are fighting for the world domination. Some individuals become victims in either way.

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    Mr. Glenn Greenwald.

    If you go to the bottom of the problem, it is the clash of two cultures both of which came from the same origin and now fight for world domination.

    In other words, two Abrahamic religions are fighting for the world domination. Some individuals become victims in either way.

    Because, both parties think that they are the best and others should become as they are.

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    According to the American Heritage Dictionary, Terrorism is “the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons”

    UK is making the mistake of allowing people who cannot integrate with the British Society to become residents of UK. They get in to ghettoes and indulge in terrorism as defined above. UK will pay dearly for their mistake.

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    Glenn Greenwald may comment all he wants. The reality is that

    The general public in the US either
    a) Thinks Afghanistan/Iraq should be bombed to oblivion
    b) or busy watching American Idol.

    The US govt which includes a Nobel peace price winner is busy
    a) Passing legislation to use drones to kill Americans on US soil
    b) Figuring ways of “disposing” enemies in their never ending “war on terror”

    The US Foreign Services meanwhile are busy
    a) Passing Human rights violation Resolutions on Lanka
    b) Stop HR violation resolutions against Saudi Arabia and Israel

    That is the Real Politik.

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    Some humans are animals in human body.

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    Friends, DON’T PANIC. SOME “TERROR ATTACKS” ARE BIT DIFFERENT.

    London Telegraph @ 12:56PM BST 25 May 2013, says..

    “Woolwich attack: Michael Adebolajo was asked to work for MI5 claims friend”

    “Abu Nusaybah told the BBC ..his friend ..rejected the request after he was approached…But as soon as the interview was finished, three members of Special Branch arrived at the BBC’s London studios and arrested him.”

    ANOTHER HEADLINE.

    “Woolwich attack provokes anti-Muslim backlash across UK
    ..including the attacking of mosques, racial abuse and comments on social media.”

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    We did’nt star the fire………….

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    Mr. Glenn Greenwald.

    That unnecessary death and the loss of PRECIOUS life is the result of clash of two different cultures which originated in the same geographic area and try to dominate the world.

    You try to explain it in your terminology. That is why you used the word Terrorism.

    For the killer, it is reaching more to his Almighty.

    Try to understand what I SAY.

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    There are many hats that are available that could be worn to misled the public.

    Few of them are TERRORISTS, FREEDOM FIGHTERS,WAR HEROS, PATRIOTS, COLLATERAL DAMAGE, WORDROBE MALFUNCTION, ILLEGAL ALIAN, DRONES, MASSACRES, WAHABIS, ALQUEDA, FANATICS, HOME GROWN, TERROR SUSPECTS, PREVENTIVE ACTION, STUN NGUNS, MOLES, DOUBLE AGENTS, STAGE ACTORS….are few of them.

    This incident is another Boston Marathon stage show gone BAD.

    Chickens are coming to Roost. Get ready to gather chicken eggs.

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    there actually isn’t a definitive definition of terrorism in international law. it is a fluid concept shaped by politics and well.. perspective! however, there are good arguments in favour of this type of incident coming within what can be called “terrorism” by reason of the fact that it is meant to be taken as an “example” or a “warning” to others, in the context of a pre-existing cause.

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