11 December, 2018

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Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

By M.F.M. Anoozer

M.F.M. Anoozer

M.F.M. Anoozer

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” ~ Matthew 5:9

Much has been written about Justice Weeramantry and his achievements and contributions. He was a genius at what he did as a Judge, academic and an advocate of world peace.

He was passionate about promoting peace between nations, communities and individuals. His quest for peace was not confined to his writings and lectures alone. He established the “Weeramantry International Centre for Peace Education and Research” to enhance study and understanding of the main religions of the world. Many practical steps were taken by this Centre by involving individuals and organisations to promote understanding of each other’s cultures and religions.

This desire to encourage the study of religions other than one’s own was two-fold. Firstly he believed the study of other religions reinforces the teaching of one’s own and secondly and more importantly such a process of education would take away one of the primary causes of conflict.

Justice Weeramantry lamented the separation of religion from International Law which he acknowledged was due to wars of religion in the 17th century (between 1618 and 1648). International law as written by Hugo Grotius, in the midst of this war, was euro-centric and monocultural. International law was shaped to suit their own ends dominated by economic and political values. However, he emphasized the need to bridge the gap between religion and international law pointing to the enormous reservoir of accumulated wisdom of International Law in the religions of the world. As a judge of the International Court of Justice he dipped into the teachings of various religions on international law on many occasions.

Justice Weeramantry

Justice Weeramantry

He was interested only in the principles of all religions and not matters of dogma and rituals. He concluded that all religions teach basically the same principles. They come together in their teachings on all matters such as dignity of the human person, the unity of the human family, the protection of the environment, the rights of future generations, the importance of peace, the peaceful resolution of disputes etc.

This study and research into other traditions brought him into contact with Islam, which he said was the subject of a great deal of misinformation and misunderstanding. He wrote “Islamic Jurisprudence- An International Perspective” in 1988 which was an attempt to correct this in the interests of international harmony. With the publication of this book Justice Weeramantry highlighted facts which were unknown to the West and much of the modern Muslim world. We were made aware of the great flowering of scholarship which began in Arabia soon after the death of the Prophet of Islam in the 7th century and continued until about the 15th century.

Due to a paucity of literature and material, we Sri Lankans, particularly the Muslims of Sri Lanka were not aware of the enormous gratitude the world owes to the Arab empire for the advancement made in mathematics, astronomy and science. We have algebra and algorithm from Al-Khwarizmi. Abu Moosa brothers developed trigonometry and spherical geometry just to calculate the times of the five daily prayers. Al Beruni calculated the circumference of the earth, in the 11th century, which is only 16.8 km less than the current known value of 6,356.7 km. Five centuries after Al-Beruni’s calculation of the circumference of the earth Galileo Galilei was punished by the King of Italy for claiming that the world was spherical! In the area of medicine the book written by Ibn- Sina (Avicenna to the western world) was used as recently as the 18th century in the Western world. The first scientist of the world, who introduced the scientific method, was Ibn-al Haytham (Al Hazen to the western world). Ibn-al Haytham wrote a six volume text on optics in the 11th century where he emphasized the need for systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses. In the area of astronomy Nasir-ud-din-Al Tusi drew the planets of the universe in the 13th century. This diagram was copied by Nicolaus Copernicus 3 centuries later and presented as his own. It is interesting to note that Copernicus copied even a mistake of the diagram of Al-Tusi thus indicating that he did not understand what he was copying! These are but a fraction of the contribution made by the Arab empire to the modern world.

Doctrine of Double Truth

While acknowledging the advancements made in the fields of science, mathematics and astronomy during the time of the Arab empire, Justice Weeramantry appeared to conclude that the greatest impact of the Arab empire on the modern world was in the field of philosophy and law.

In the area of philosophy ibn Ruschd (Averroes to the Western world) came up with the doctrine of double truth in the 12th century to the problem of the nature of the relationship between divine revelation and human reason. To what extent was there scope for the latter when the divine will had been both declared by God and interpreted by the Prophet? The same issue plagued the Christian world as well but it chose to discount the value of human inquiry which led to the so called dark ages in the West. The Church emphasized the need to study the Bible only and any other study was greatly discouraged. It was Ibn-Ruschd who broke the shackles placed on human inquiry with his doctrine of double truth. He said that there was truth that emanates from divine revelation but there is also truth that comes to us through human inquiry. This was supported by the hadiths of the Holy Prophet. There was room for coexistence of human reason and the word of God. This doctrine of double truth thus explained was accepted and adopted by Thomas Acquinas in the 13th century in his book Summa Theologica. Through this work, reason gathered momentum in the Western world and resulted in intellectual and political upheavals of vast proportions such as the Reformation and Renaissance. In the words of Justice Weeramantry, by the introduction of this doctrine in the West, “the horse of reason which had been kept confined in the stables, bolted, and could never be put back again”.

In the area of philosophy the Arabic philosophers such as Abu Yusuf Ya’Kub Ibn Ishak (Al-Kindi to the Western world), Al-Farabi, Ibn-Sina and Ibn Ruschd translated and commented upon the works of Greek philosophers. Aristotle, the philosopher of reason and individualism, had been neglected by the Christian Church which had preferred the philosophy of Plato. Plato had taught that those best able by reason of their knowledge and wisdom, to guide the state should be in control of it, while citizens should subordinate their reason to that of these philosopher-kings. For Aristotle, the individual and reason were more important. The intellectual attraction of Aristotle for these Arab philosophers was very great and Aristotle’s work was translated into Arabic.[1] Al-Ghazali’s work brought together, and indeed took further the work of the Greek philosophers regarding the application of the method of logic to interpretation as well as their view of happiness as the ultimate end of man.[2]

Law

It is well beyond scope of this article to trace even in outline the influence of Islamic Law on the Western world. Basic Islamic legal ideas such as the notion of sharing, caring, trusteeship of property, brotherhood and solidarity, universalism, fair industrial relations, human dignity, dignity of labour, ideal law, fair contract, commercial integrity, freedom from usury, abuse of rights, condemnation of anti-social conduct, charitable trust, juristic personality, individual freedom, equality before the law, legal representation, presumption of innocence, non-retroactivity, supremacy of the law, judicial independence, judicial impartiality, limited sovereignty, bidding unto good (am I my brother’s keeper), tolerance and of democratic participation were subjects on which many treatises were written during the time of the Arab empire.[3]

Hugo Grotius is generally thought to be the father of International Law. Some historians tend to claim that King Alfonso X, King of Castile as the father of modern International Law. This is due to a part of an encyclopedia he wrote on knowledge in the 13th century. This part, contained in one volume, dealt with International Law. Scholars now agree that this was an absolute reproduction (verbatim translation) of the treatise on International Law written by Mohammad bin Hassan Shaybani at the end of the 8th century. These works found its way to the West through Islamic Spain where Grotius completed his work on international Law (War and Peace) without acknowledging the works of earlier scholars although the indications are that he did indeed have access to these works and also reflected all the principles of Islamic law.

Individual dignity ranks high in Islamic law and the concept of human rights fits naturally within its framework.[4] Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights was framed by eminent Islamic scholars and representatives of Islamic movements in 1981. Islamic Jurisprudence, Justice Weeramantry thought, was much in tune with current international jurisprudential and human rights thinking.

Justice Weeramantry’s philosophy was ‘peace by promoting mutual respect for each other’s religions which can only be generated by propagation of knowledge’. In doing so, he has become the accidental hero of the Muslim world by highlighting facts which were consistently written out of the history books of the West. We learnt of the enormous gratitude the modern world owes to the medieval Islamic scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, jurists and scholars. Likewise the modern Muslim world owes a huge debt of gratitude to this Prince of Peace.

M.F.M. Anoozer, Attorney-at-Law

[1] Islamic Jurisprudence, an international perspective p 101

[2] Islamic Jurisprudence, an international perspective p 99

[3] Islamic jurisprudence, an international perspective pp 59-93

[4] Islamic Jurisprudence, an international perspective p 114

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Latest comments

  • 15
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    Thank you, Brother Anoozer, for this excellent overview of the Golden Age of Islam which highlights the heights to which Muslims could rise intellectually if their minds are not shackled, if they are given the opportunity and freedom to think the unthinkable and proceed from that point.

    However, it raises the question as to what factors subsequently hindered the use of such free and unrestrained thought which resulted in the decline of this Golden Age specially at a time when Europe started to move out from the Dark Ages and began to make significant contributions in every field of study taking advantage of the new developments in technology.

    Were the Arab intelligentsia affected adversely by some common biological factor, neurological disorder, psychosomatic problem or whatever which contributed to this intellectual decline ?

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      M.F.M. Anoozer

      RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

      “This desire to encourage the study of religions other than one’s own was two-fold. Firstly he believed the study of other religions reinforces the teaching of one’s own and secondly and more importantly such a process of education would take away one of the primary causes of conflict.”

      “As a judge of the International Court of Justice he dipped into the teachings of various religions on international law on many occasions.”

      Thank you for the wrote up. Let facts and truth be known with support.

      Why call Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims, why not call Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Peace and Justice Loving People, whatever faith, belief, myth,sect or race they belong to?

      That is what he was. He was a intellectual gem that was rare among the intellectuals, non-Muslim and Muslims alike. He understood, where others did not understand.

      The Quote Polymath, Islamic Scholar and Philosopher, Ibn Rashd, Averroes, of the 12th century, he was a man of knowledge and reason, a Philosopher.You do not need religion to be philosopher, a lover of Wisdom.

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        M.F.M. Anoozer

        RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

        A true hero for Muslims is one who get then liberated from the Ulama, Mullahs, Imams and others, who who wants to put revelation above Reason, Observations and Data, without using common sense and intelligence.

        The closest true Hero for Muslims was Ibn Rash, Averroes, who treated the “Great Book” Quran as a book of knowledge, and did not want to follow it blindly, and he clearly sated that the Quran can be properly interpreted by ONLY, people of knowledge and wisdom, the Philosophers, the Lovers of Wisdom.

        Arab Secularist DESTROYS Islamists on live TV!

        Arab Secularist DESTROYS Islamists on live TV!
        Islam is a myth with flying horses and cutting the moon in half.

        He Says:

        , “I believe that the time has come for us to adopt the secular, rational, scientific approach, and to remove religion from public life and confine it to the private sphere. Every person is free to understand his religion as he sees fit, and he is free to change his religion, to adopt any school of thought or religion, and to spread his ideas in keeping with modern rules of human rights.” – Nasser Dashti

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsqNAvoFZyY

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        M.F.M. Anoozer –

        RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

        Who are the others? Ibn Rushd, Avorroes, showed that Al-Ghazali was incorrect. Read up on Incoherence of the Incoherence. Who are the others? Aristotle, Ptolemy, and Joshua were shown to be incorrect by Copernicus, Gallo and Kepler, were the heroes of the Astronomers and the scientists.

        INTERESTING – Bahraini Intellectual Describes the Problems in the Muslim World

        The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) explores the Middle East and South Asia through their media. MEMRI bridges the language gap between the West and the Middle East and South Asia, providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, Urdu-Pashtu and Dari media, as well as original analysis of political, ideological, intellectual, social, cultural, and religious trends. Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East, MEMRI is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501(c)3 organization. MEMRI’s main office is located in Washington, DC, with branch offices in various world capitals. MEMRI research is translated into English, French, Polish, Japanese, and Hebrew.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvKsBDj8I1Y

    • 2
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      ekelbroom

      Golden Age of Islam which highlights the heights to which Muslims could rise intellectually if their minds are not shackled, if they are given the opportunity and freedom to think the unthinkable and proceed from that point.

      Your prophet Mohomad was a cunning businessman. His first marraige was to a woman far older than him because she was rich.

      He carried out conquests while taking over regions to convert to Islam, he also promoted acquiring knowledge because he knew knowledge was power. There was a Islamic university in Baghdad which invited foreign, mostly Asian or Indian, scholars. that was to get their knowledge.

    • 4
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      M.F.M. Anoozer –

      RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

      Part 1. What Lead to the Decline Islamic Science and Civilization?

      1. “This study and research into other traditions brought him into contact with Islam, which he said was the subject of a great deal of misinformation and misunderstanding.”

      2. “We were made aware of the great flowering of scholarship which began in Arabia soon after the death of the Prophet of Islam in the 7th century and continued until about the 15th century.”

      3. “Due to a paucity of literature and material, we Sri Lankans, particularly the Muslims of Sri Lanka were not aware of the enormous gratitude the world owes to the Arab empire for the advancement made in mathematics, astronomy and science. We have algebra and algorithm from Al-Khwarizmi. Abu Moosa brothers developed trigonometry and spherical geometry just to calculate the times of the five daily prayers. ‘”

      The question to ask is what caused Islamic Science and Inquiry yt Rise and what caused its decline?

      The down grading of Islamic Philosophers, and upgrading of Ulema-Mullah -Theologians by the rulers for political reasons, and the downgrading of reason and observations to Revelations, as demanded by the Theologians from the rulers.

      What Lead to the Decline Islamic Science and Civilization?

      Revelation being above reason and observations. So, the Earth is spread out like a carpet.

    • 2
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      M.F.M. Anoozer

      RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

      Part 2: What Lead to the Decline Islamic Science and Civilization?

      The interesting questions to ask is why after it went to great heights and why the Islamic, Science, Philosophy and Civilization declined subsequently?

      Central to this DECLINE was HEGEMONY OF ULAMA AND MULLAH, the so-called Islamic Scholars and Theologians, who prevailed POLITICALLY with the Rulers, because of the CONTROL they had with the masses.

      At that time brilliant Muslim thinkers, philosophers, were critically evaluating and analyzing what the Revelations said and what it meant, by using reason, logic, observations and common sense.

      The first speculative theologians in Islam are called Mu’tazilites (from about 723 CE). A later generation of theologians, the Ash’arites, named after Al Ash’ari, born, 773 CE, are forced by weight of evidence to admit a certain irrationality in theological concepts.

      The Ash’arites, hold the middle way, between the traditionalists (who literally interpret the Quran) saying Revelation is above reason and Observations, and the others,Mu’tazilites, who affirm that reason unaided by revelation is capable of religious truths.

      Unfortunately, by 1,200 CE, due to the theology of Hamid Al-Ghazali, the HEGEMONY OF ULAMA AND MULLAH, the so-called Islamic Scholars and Theologians, prevailed POLITICALLY.

      Revelation was elevated above Reason and Observations. The traditionalist Theologians were happy, and they were able to maintain their hegemony. Reason and Free inquiry declined.

      The Islamic Science and philosophy has not recovered since the 12th century. With the advent of the Devil, Satan, Iblis following Wahhabites (Wahhabies, Salafies, Tawheedis, ISIS, ISIL, Taliban, Deobandi, Boko-Haram and other clones), the task of recovery has become much harder.

      Meanwhile the rest of the non-Muslim world is making great progress in Science, Development and in other spheres.

      Have the Muslims identified the problem, yet?

    • 1
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      [Edited out] Comments should not exceed 300 words.Please read our Comments Policy for further details.

      • 2
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        M.F.M. Anoozer

        RE:Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims ( 132 words)

        Part 3.Why the Muslims are Behind? Jut look at Saudi Arabia, and the performance of the Saudi GMAT scores, compared to the rest of the world.

        They put Revelation above Reason, investigation, and data.

        Saudi Arabia is controlled by Wahhabi Ulama and Clerics. They control the education system and the education is very heavy in learning the Quran, Hadith and root memorization, with very little critical thinking and innovation. One may extend this to some other Muslim countries, bit not to all.

        The results. Saudi Arabian graduates have the lowest GMAT scores, around 320.

        Regression Plot: The regression plot for GMAT scores and L&V’s (2012) Estimated National IQs is shown below.

        https://humanvarietiesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/gmatregressionplot.png

        L&V’s National IQs predict GMAT scores across 173 nations

        http://humanvarieties.org/2014/02/02/quick-post-lvs-national-iqs-predicts-gmat-scores-across-173-nations/

        : What Lead to the Decline Islamic Science and Civilization?

    • 2
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      M.F.M. Anoozer

      RE: Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims

      Who is a Muslim? What is a Muslim?

      Who is a Christian? What is a Christian?
      See what Bertrand Russel had to say, in 1927. It equally applies to Muslims and other Religions.

      Why I Am Not a Christian by Bertrand Russell (1927)
      Published on Oct 4, 2012
      Bertrand Russell first delivered this lecture on March 6, 1927 to the National Secular Society, South London Branch, at Battersea Town Hall

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRKY2LIvH50#t=1041.961091

    • 2
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      Anoozer

      Part A (299Words)

      From …“ We have algebra and algorithm from Al-Khwarizmi. Abu Moosa brothers developed trigonometry and spherical geometry just to calculate the times of the five daily prayers. Al Beruni calculated the circumference of the earth, in the 11th century, which is only 16.8 km less than the current known value of 6,356.7 km. Five centuries after Al-Beruni’s calculation of the circumference of the earth Galileo Galilei was punished by the King of Italy for claiming that the world was spherical! In the area of medicine the book written by Ibn- Sina (Avicenna to the western world) was used as recently as the 18thcentury in the Western world. The first scientist of the world, who introduced the scientific method, was Ibn-al Haytham (Al Hazen to the western world). Ibn-al Haytham wrote a six volume text on optics in the 11th century where he emphasized the need for systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses. In the area of astronomy Nasir-ud-din-Al Tusi drew the planets of the universe in the 13th century. This diagram was copied by Nicolaus Copernicus 3 centuries later and presented as his own. It is interesting to note that Copernicus copied even a mistake of the diagram of Al-Tusi thus indicating that he did not understand what he was copying! These are but a fraction of the contribution made by the Arab empire to the modern world.”

      Amarasiri has 50 words to comment, because of the 300 word limit. Therefore will comment as Part A and Part B. The above is generally true, except for a few Errors.

      1. The Earth was spherical was argued by reason by Aristotle, because the shadow of the Earth on the Moon was from a spherical object.
      2. See Part B

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      Anoozer

      Part B (299Words)

      From …“ We have algebra and algorithm from .. to … Arab empire to modern world.”
      The above is generally true, except for a few Errors.

      2. Eratosthenes’ used the knowledge of the sphere of the earth to calculate the circumference, in one of the beautiful experiments I the ancient world.
      Eratosthenes’ measurement of the Earth’s circumference

      At noon on the summer solstice in the Egyptian town now called Aswan, the sun hovers straight overhead: objects cast no shadow and sunlight falls directly down a deep well. When he read this fact, Eratosthenes, the librarian at Alexandria in the third century B.C., realized he had the information he needed to estimate the circumference of the planet. On the same day and time, he measured shadows in Alexandria, finding that the solar rays there had a bit of a slant, deviating from the vertical by about seven degrees.

      The rest was just geometry. Scholars differ over the length of a Greek stadium, so it is impossible to know just how accurate he was. But by some reckonings, he was off by only about 5 percent.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/24/science/here-they-are-science-s-10-most-beautiful-experiments.html

      4. “Galileo Galilei was punished by the King of Italy for claiming that the world was spherical!

      This is incorrect. Galileo’s “Crime” was that he was promoting the Copernican Heliocentric model of the Planets, when the Church supported the Geocentric Model Joshua stopping the Sun for 24 hours) and the Greek geocentric model of Aristotle and Ptolemy.

      Galileo was punished by the Catholic Inquisition, and to save himself from being tortured and burned at the stake, he had to confess that it was the Sun that moves. He got his sentence reduced to house arrest for the rest of his life, but he whispered to himself., “It moves”

    • 2
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      Anoozer

      Part C (293Words)

      From …“ We have algebra and algorithm from .. to … Arab empire to modern world.”
      So what happened to this Islamic Science and Knowledge for it to decline?
      Have the Muslims identified the problem, yet? Do they have the IQ to identify the problem?

      In the 12th century, some Ulama had elaborated a theology to compete with that of the Mu’tzalites. The Asharite school, as it was called, insisted that faith could never be based on Reason, only on Revelation. Reason’s function was only to support revelation.. Ghazali came to their rescue.

      Then Ghazali wrote a book on Greek philosophy called The Aims of the Philosophers. Then he wrote the Incoherence of the Philosophers. He attacked the cause-and-effect relationships among material phenomena.

      But if science is right only when it reaches the same conclusions as revelation, we don’t need science. All the truth we need we can get from the revelations. This is the position of the theologians, and those who literally interpreted the revelations.

      Some of the philosophers struck back. Ibn Rushd, Averroes, wrote a reposte to Ghazali called, The Incoherence of the Incoherence, but it did little good, even though Ghazali was shown to be error 17 times,and when the smoke cleared, Ghazali had won the day.

      From this time forward, Greek-based Muslim Philosophy and science lost steam and Muslim interest in natural science foundered. It has not recovered since. As expected, Ghazali won tremendous accolades from the theologians for his work. The political leadership of the Caliphs went along. So, the theologians went on naming many Mosques Al-Gazali Mosques, over the centuries, to this day, in gratitude for saving from the Philosophers.

      When will the Age of Reason and enlightenment come to the Muslims?

    • 4
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      Dear Brother,

      Science always follows the money.

      The advancement of science through the ages has been described as a baton in a relay. First the Greeks had it(State organised/sponsored learning). Then the Arabs had it. Now the West has it. Each one of them had resources to put into learning. This phenomenon is estimated to last for about 7-8 centuries. The West has had it now for about 6 centuries. We see signs of economic decline in the West now. It is shifting to China and India.Perhaps in the next two centuries we will see flowering of scholarship in China and India. It is inevitable with economic power.

      In the Arab empire science was always kept separate from religious argument. Baithul Hikma (House of wisdom) established in late 8th century in Baghdad, exemplified this. This was before Ibn Rushd came up with his doctrine of double truth which was, in any event, aimed at the Western world.

      So, in short, the primary cause of intellectual decline in the Arab empire was economic and not any other.

      • 2
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        Anoozer

        “So, in short, the primary cause of intellectual decline in the Arab empire was economic and not any other.”

        This is partly true, but it is mostly Cultural and, religious and Theological, and the perception of society. It is economic min the sense that the rulers did not fund science because of religious reason and the objections of the Theologians. Just look at as to what happened to the House of Wisdom in Baghdad.

        In the 12th century, some Ulama had elaborated a theology to compete with that of the Mu’tzalites. The Asharite school, as it was called, insisted that faith could never be based on Reason, only on Revelation. Reason’s function was only to support revelation.. Ghazali came to their rescue.

        Then Ghazali wrote a book on Greek philosophy called The Aims of the Philosophers. Then he wrote the Incoherence of the Philosophers. He attacked the cause-and-effect relationships among material phenomena.

        But if science is right only when it reaches the same conclusions as revelation, we don’t need science. All the truth we need we can get from the revelations. This is the position of the theologians, and those who literally interpreted the revelations.

        Some of the philosophers struck back. Ibn Rushd, Averroes, wrote a reposte to Ghazali called, The Incoherence of the Incoherence, but it did little good, even though Ghazali was shown to be error 17 times,and when the smoke cleared, Ghazali had won the day.

        From this time forward, Greek-based Muslim Philosophy and science lost steam and Muslim interest in natural science foundered. It has not recovered since.

      • 2
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        Anoozer —

        “So, in short, the primary cause of intellectual decline in the Arab empire was economic and not any other. “

        Would you say that the Sun goes around the Earth because the Sun rises fro the East and sets in the West?

        After all, 25% of the American, 34% of the Europeans and perhaps 50% of the others believes that. It is in the Bible (Joshua) and the Quran as well.

        1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says

        The survey of 2,200 people in the United States was conducted by the NSF in 2012 and released on Friday at an annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Chicago.

        To the question “Does the Earth go around the Sun, or does the Sun go around the Earth,” 26 percent of those surveyed answered incorrectly.

        http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/02/14/277058739/1-in-4-americans-think-the-sun-goes-around-the-earth-survey-says

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    “”This part, contained in one volume, dealt with International Law. Scholars now agree that this was an absolute reproduction (verbatim translation) of the treatise on International Law written by Mohammad bin Hassan Shaybani at the end of the 8th century.””

    Even the moon was created by Islamic law and the world is so flat for ISIS.

    Justice W came into prominence with Srimao romance with terrorist Nasser.
    So where is the oil farm?
    Islamic law is so judicious that Saudi beheaded a teenage muslim girl while you were having a rollicking time with Passa rule.

    • 4
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      Yes, and if you did not know, they (Saudi Royal family) even executed one of their own. No one is above the law, when it comes to life for a life, except if settled with ‘blood money’ which must be acceptable to the aggrieved party. If they refuse, there is nothing even the King can do to commute the sentence to a lesser punishment.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTiEIYfe1Iw

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        Marwan

        “Islamic law is so judicious that Saudi beheaded a teenage muslim girl while you were having a rollicking time with Passa rule.”

        In sentencing and condemning the poor girl, the Devil, Satan following Wahhabi judges did not follow the requirements of the Quran for witnesses and the benefit of the doubt.

        The so-called King appointed himself the “Keeper of the Two Holy Places” .

        From where did they come from? Najd, the Den of the Devil, Satan, Iblis, Wahhabi Saudi Arabia.

        Hadith of Najd

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Najd

        Scholar from al-Azhar: Wahhabism is a Satanic Faith, the Horn of the Devil that Muhammad Predicted

        Published on Jun 2, 2013
        Yusri Rushdi al-Sayyid Jabr al-Husni, a Sunni Muslim religious scholar from the world’s oldest and most prestigious Islamic school, the Honorable al-Azhar, has stated that Wahhabis who are also known by other names such as Salafis, Najdis, and Horners, are in fact the Horn of the Devil, a term used by the prophet Muhammad in reference to a satanic faith that shall come out of Najd (Saudi Arabia).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxTUFapy1w

  • 5
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    Asia which boast of an ancient civilization full of philosophy, and learning has been invaded by 2 pirates the Christians and Muslims.

    The 2 are blood brothers of the same stone of the evil spirit that has brought death and destruction to this beautiful world and corrupted eastern philosophy.

    Greedy prick Badiudin Mahmud screwed us all from 1970.

    The Don needs you.

    • 2
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      Wrong. Âdam is believed to have been the first human being and prophet on Earth, in Islam. Adam’s role as the father of the human race is looked upon by Muslims with reverence. Muslims also refer to his wife, Eve (Hawa), as the “mother of mankind”. Muslims see Adam as the first Muslim, as the Qur’an states that all the prophets preached the same faith of submission to God. The final Prophet being Prophet Muhammedﷺ with followers around 1.6 billion worldwide, and growing. Every other religion that came in between was distortion of the original message and it took on its leaders name. Eg. Christianity from Christ, and Buddhism from … you know who, Judaism from Juda, Marxism, Communism all the ‘isms’ were all man made religions. Only Islam survived the test of time.

      Top 10 religions in the world and its adherent population.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdr5d5TPq7Q&t=3s

      • 2
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        Marwan

        “Wrong. Âdam is believed to have been the first human being and prophet on Earth, in Islam. Adam’s role as the father of the human race is looked upon by Muslims with reverence. Muslims also refer to his wife, Eve (Hawa), as the “mother of mankind”. Muslims see Adam as the first Muslim, as the Qur’an states that all the prophets preached the same faith of submission to God.”

        How many Chromosomes do you have? How many did Adam and Eve have? How long ago was that?

        Ken Miller on Human Evolution.

        Uploaded on Feb 14, 2007
        Dr. Ken Miller talks about the relationship between Homo sapiens and the other primates. He discusses a recent finding of the Human Genome Project which identifies the exact point of fusion of two primate chromosomes that resulted in human chromosome #2.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk&t=83s

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        Marwan

        “Wrong. Âdam is believed to have been the first human being and prophet on Earth, in Islam. Adam’s role as the father of the human race is looked upon by Muslims with reverence. Muslims also refer to his wife, Eve (Hawa), as the “mother of mankind”. Muslims see Adam as the first Muslim, as the Qur’an states that all the prophets preached the same faith of submission to God.”

        Given below is an alternate view.

        Modern Genetics Confirms Evolution

        Uploaded on Mar 24, 2009
        When the science of genetics came, around 100 years after Darwin’s “Origin of Species”, the theory of Natural Selection was put to the test. Genetics required an explanation: if common descent of humans and the great apes is true, why do humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes and the great apes 24?

        The mystery chromosome was found in human chromosome #2 – and evidence of its fusion from 2 to a single chromosome.

        This excerpt is from the documentary ‘Intelligent Design on Trial’ on the case of Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CexojNPz2cU

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    I tend to agree with Mr. Amarasiri’s excellent observation above.Dr Weeramanthri was not only a great Sri Lankan of our time , if not for all time in view of his huge contribution to human knowledge.Actually he could be called a citizen of the world for this.Yes, his book Islamic Jurisprudence is an excellent work on Islam, which ,in breadth and scope,has not been produced by Islamic scholars themselves.It shows Islam’s contribution to human civilization, in a manner never known before.Islams commitment to peace is legendary.Take for instance the Prophet Muhammmed’s exhortation to his followers not to harm children , women and old people in conflict, or the need to respect women’ slights when he says “treat her as your EQUAL for she has come to you in trust”( Women’s Rights long before the west REDICOVERED and advocated it) among many others.This meticulously researched book is well worth a read by all, irrespective of their religious persuasions.

    Unfortunately this great religion is been used by a radical few to kill and spread hatred thereby portraying it in negative light.It is well to note that out of millions and millions of Muslims only a few are doing this.Yet like a little dung put in to a huge can of milk their actions determine how the world perceives Islam.In this , the actions of a few Buddhists in Sri Lanka led by some radical monks and their filthy language and thuggish action is spoiling the image of the great Buddhist philosophy , just as much as the actions of Shiv Sen and extremist groups such as the Crusaders and the the modern day Klu Klux Clan has ruined the image of Hinduism and Christianity ,respectively.

    So it may be a good topic for research students to determine why humans tend to judge everything by the negative quality rather than the positive quality, something that Shakespeare immortalized when he wrote ” The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones”( Julius Ceasar Act 3, Scene 2)

    Hopefully Dr. Weeramantri’s contribution to human understanding will defy this usual trend and live long after him so that the world becomes a better place.We, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus , Muslims etc ,and all those who consider themselves a human ,owe that to the great man and to generations yet unborn.

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      Sri Lankan and M.F.M. Anoozer,

      “Unfortunately this great religion is been used by a radical few to kill and spread hatred thereby portraying it in negative light.It is well to note that out of millions and millions of Muslims only a few are doing this.”

      The radical few follow the Devil, Satan, Iblis, as per Hadith of Najd.

      The contributions of the Golden Age of Islamic Science and Philosophy from, 800 CE to 1,200 CE is generally ascribed to the the Sciences, Astronomy and Natural Philosophy. The contributions of the pioneering efforts of Islamic jurists to develop a comprehensive body of human rights, principles and practice, as well as a corpus of international law principles, has been overlooked in the modern era, due to many misunderstandings on Islam.

      Justice Weeramantry was able to fish out the historical record and its application to the modern era.

      a Synopsis on Islamic Jurisprudence: An International Perspective 1st ed. 1988 Edition by C.G. Weeramantry is given below.

      Islamic jurisprudence is a much misunderstood system. The misunderstanding is due to lack of information and to centuries of prejudice. This book seeks to present information, not at present available in a single work, on the pioneering efforts of Islamic jurists to develop a comprehensive body of human rights, principles and practice, as well as a corpus of international law principles. The attempt to develop such international law principles long anticipated any similar work in other legal or cultural systems. Human rights doctrine based upon the Qu’ran and the Sunna of the Prophet was expressed in terms which will strike the reader as surprisingly modern. In international law, Islamic treatises anticipated the work of Grotius by eight centuries. It is hoped that this systematic exposition, not attempted before in such detail, will help considerably in reducing misunderstanding and the resulting tensions, as well as being of considerable value to the Islamic world. The work will be of interest not only to lawyers, but also to philosophers, historians, sociologists, political scientists and students of international affairs.

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    Is this the same Weeramantry who charged the govt for millions for recovering MAhinda Rajapakse’s loot but he could not find a penny because he handled it very bad. Is this the same guy who headed TRanparency International ?

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      I think there were two Weeramantrys. Lucien and Christie. So, you may be mistaken. But, one has to worry that the Judge may have said much about Muslims, because there are many Muslim states that would have backed his election to the court, but he said very little about human rights of other minorities in Sri Lanka, the Tamils who were suffering much and the Catholics who were also under siege. It is something that worries me in the career of no doubt a man of great distinction. Was he like lesser men all about himself?

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        Kabaragoya,don’t talk rubbish..Justice Weeramantri wrote that book on Islamic Jurisprudence well after his retirement from the ICJ, actually when he was around 85 years of age.The book was on Islamic Jurisprudence and not on Muslims you silly man.With imbeciles like you need one say more?Also why does the so called Tamils have to figure in all what is written?

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    Ekelbroom- Several factors led to it and it was all political. During the crusades the Muslim empire had to guard itself – and in furtherence of this- Ibn Thammiya was the first exponent of the literal interpretation of texts. It is Ibn Thammiyas ideology that Abdul Wahab and Wahabist generally use today and it was that ideology that supported the creation of the Saudi state ( which didnt exist before 1930). Secondly, it was as a reaction to the expanding colonisation. Edward Said’s book ‘ Orientalism’ ( which is studied as the most potent work on the occidental and the oriental) explains this phenomenon. At the turn of the 20th century, the Muslim political opinion changed to preserving their ‘identity’ ( a nonsensical one) and Wahabs teachings helped this cause. Like the rise of Anagarika Darmapala who reinvented Sinhala Buddhist as a means of resistance, the Muslims did the same ( So did the jews, Hindus and other cultures). Thirdly, prior to 1970’s the Muslim empires had the most amount of freedoms in comparison to the times. So women wore bikinis, music was celebrated and intellectual discourse, questioning of faith, God etc were a common phenomenon. Even today in countries like Palestine, Turkey, Bosnia, Syria, Aethists and Agnostic Muslims live in the same neighbourhood as Muslims. The real turn comes due to Saudi ( which was a creation of the Colonial power Britain) and the CIA coup which overthrew the socialist leader of Iran in 1953 and reinstated the Sha of Iran. That gave rise to the the islamic Revolution of Khomeni who then came in and went mad, lowering the age of marriage to 9 etc

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    However, the basis of the Khomenis revolution was anti imperialism. Read Ai Shariathi and how he used islamic theology, Marxism and nationalism and was the main ideologue to rally the masses for Khomeni who later came and did the exact opposite http://www.decolonialtranslation.com/english/the-islamic-liberation-theology-of-ali-shariatiEng.html. But there was always a strand of literal interpretors of the Quran ( Ibn Thammiya) expanded on it. it is these uninformed idiots who think there is only one way to practice Islam that have been the main cause of current trouble- The Burqa being a symbol of this. People like Ibn Farabi, Ibn al Arabi, Junayd etc were exponents of philosophy, reason, and intellect. In fact early islam had a movement who were called Mutzilah- who actually argued against the fact that the Quran was uncreated. it is a deep theological perspective they brought and they came to the fore during the time of Harun Al Rashid- one of the most intellectually profound leaders of the time.

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      Hafeel Farisz, M.F.M. Anoozer and other Muslim Intellectuals with Commmon Sense and Reason,
      299Words

      You certainly have an uphill battle even this this 21st century, against the Ulama, Mullahs, Imams and the Muslim Masses who just blindly follow the Ulama and Mullahs.

      The battle is between the literal interpretation favored by the theologians vs. treating the Quran as a guidebook, a book of knowledge, only those with knowledge, i.e., Philosophers can interpret properly.

      Who can understand Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Physics? Only those who are properly trained to understand them.

      Similarly, the Ulama, Mullah and Imams, unless they are trained in Philosophy, in addition to the religious sciences of the Quran and Hadith and prior rulings, their interpretations are flawed and in error.

      A good example are the errors of Hamid Mohamed Al-Ghazali, pointed out by Ibn Rashd, Averrroes, in the Incoherence of the Incoherence.

      You need to read up on the works of Abd’l-Walid Ibn Rushd, Averros, and a summary given in Faith and Reason in Islam, written 900 tears ago. He argues that religion shoukd nor be allowed to impose limits on the exercise of rational thought.

      The dispute between reason and religion, i.e. revelation, is not a new phenomenon. You need to form a critical mass of Muslim Intellectuals and free thinkers, who will pave the way for the Muslims to break out of the hold the Ulama, Mullahs, and Imams have on the masses, and progress to get to the age of reason and enlightenment.

      Until the, the Muslims have to put up with the Wahhabites and their clones, who follow the Devil, Satan, Iblis, and suffer.

      Islam and Evolution: Is there a controversy?

      Islam and Evolution: Is there a controversy?
      Dr. Rana Dajani at the The Faraday Institute for Science and Religion, February 2015.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etP_YJ5jWsY

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    During his sons reign ( 8th century AD) this was the most predominant ideology- that ” reason supplants revelation”, and people who thought otherwise were persecuted ( wrong, but we are talking of 1200 years ago). Having said all of this, the Muslims of today, even these ‘ progressive’ Muslims have no clue about it. Many who speak of even Weeramanthries book havent read ti but just use it to show how ‘great’ Muslims are. Its pure ignorance, because they have this fear of a man up in the sky taking notes down on them and insist that every Muslim fears such a judgmental ‘God’. If you read Islamic theology, there is a lot to do with the concept of Nirvana- Fanaa, in Islam. The Muslims today are so afraid that all they do is deny themselves of any intellect, pleasure or reason. Rabiyathu Adawiya, one of the most famous exponents of trancendental Islam is supposed to have told ascetics( mind you not these ritualists who run to the mosque and tell you what to wear- but even to ascetics) who began showing contempt to the world- she told them- ” that anyone who spends so much time rejecting something must be very attached to it indeed”. Also, there were two phases in which Islamic thought developed- ‘one for the commoner’ and ‘one for the wise’ . So the wise only imparted knowledge of the divine to those who were ready- ( like Buddhist monks do, the teacher pupil relationships). I dont think that distinction should exists in 2017 but it does, and the ‘commoner ( also identified as the person without intellect, the dumber) have grown and the latter have dwindled and have been persecuted by the former who were the ones who have political control. The answer to all of this- is reading. Many of the Muslims today who wear their Burqas, run to the Mosque and grown their beards havent even read the translation of the Quran. its such ignorance that has befallen in what should ideally be one of the most progressive communities of today. In fact, when the Muslims invaded Span they spent 300 years translating every once of literature of the Greeks to arm themselves with knowledge and this included literature on pagan gods, and everything else that today is considered ‘ Haram’. Sorry I went on a rant, but I couldnt help myself. This is but a brief generalisation and I hope you all read up more on these people and concepts of islamic thought. Especially the Muslims.

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      Thank you Hafeel.

      There is a growing call asking Islam to regain it’s glorious past through scholarship. I am confident ‘reason’ will prevail.

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      Thank you for that enlightening ‘rant’ , Brother Hafeez.

      The Muslim community must welcome the lighting of every candle that dispels the darkness enshrouding our religion and it’s practices. A darkness deliberately maintained by interested parties over decades and centuries, which leaves us groping in the dark even regarding simple Marriage & Divorce laws. A darkness, the perpetuation of which serves as a perfect cover for those standing on shaky ground.

      Your thoughts are indeed refreshing. Your interpretations, more so.
      More rants, please.

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      Hafeel Farisz

      Pat 1. Comment

      Thank you for an enlightened interpretation, on Islamic Theological History and the debate between Reason and Revelation.

      There are a few errors and corrections in your comments.

      1.”During the crusades the Muslim empire had to guard itself – and in furtherence of this- Ibn Thammiya was the first exponent of the literal interpretation of texts.”

      Actually, Ibn Thammiya, was the product of Mongol Invasions, that resulted in the destruction of Baghdad. Ibn Thammiya’s Hypothesis or Theology, later picked up by the Satan-following Abdul Wahhab (as per Hadith of Najd), was that the Muslims were destroyed by the Mongols because they were Bad Muslims, and Allah punished them. So, he defined who a good Muslim was, and those Muslims who were not “Good ” Muslims had to be killed.

      Even, Ibn Taymiaya, accepted the four schools, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi and Hanbali. Is Wahhabism a school of Islam? No. It is School of Satan, Iblis, Devil, as per Hadith of Najd and Islamic Theology. just read up on what Abdul Wahhab’s brother Sulaiman had to say, and what he wrote, and the Wahhabis killed him.

      2. “In fact early islam had a movement who were called Mutzilah- who actually argued against the fact that the Quran was uncreated. it is a deep theological perspective they brought and they came to the fore during the time of Harun Al Rashid- one of the most intellectually profound leaders of the time.”

      Yes, but See Part 2, for further comments.

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      Hafeel Farisz

      Part 2. Comments. What Lead to the Decline Islamic Science and Civilization, and Muslims?

      2. “In fact early islam had a movement who were called Mutzilah- who actually argued against the fact that the Quran was uncreated. it is a deep theological perspective they brought and they came to the fore during the time of Harun Al Rashid- one of the most intellectually profound leaders of the time.”

      Meanwhile the rest of the non-Muslim world is making great progress in Science, Development and in other spheres.

      Have the Muslims identified the problem, yet? Do they have the IQ to identify the problem?

      By the mid-eleventh century, the Muslims were hard at work on three great cultural projects, pursued respectively by scholar-theologians, philosopher-scientists, and Sufi mystics. At this juncture, one of the intellectual giants pf world history was born of Persian-speaking parents in the province of Khorasan. His name was Abu Hamid Muhammad al-Ghazali.

      In his day, some Ulama had elaborated a theology to compete with that of the Mu’tzalites. The Asharite school, as it was called, insisted that faith could never be based on Reason, only on Revelation. Reason’s function was only to support revelation.

      Asharite Theologians were constantly squaring off against prominent Mu’tzalites in public debates, but the Mu’tzalites knew fancy Greek tricks, for winning arguments, such as logic and rhetoric, so they were constantly making Asharites look confused.

      Ghazali came to their rescue. Then he wrote a book on Greek philosophy called The Aims of the Philosophers. Then he wrote the Incoherence of the Philosophers. He attacked the cause-and-effect relationships among material phenomena.

      Gahazali allowed that mathematics, logic, and even natural sciences could lead to true conclusions, but wherever they conflicted, with the Revelations, they were wrong. But if science is right only when it reaches the same conclusions as revelation, we don’t need science. All the truth we need we can get from the revelations. This is the position of the theologians, and those who literally interpreted the revelations.

      Some of the philosophers struck back. Ibn Rushd, Averroes, wrote a reposte to Ghazali called, The Incoherence of the Incoherence, but it did little good, even though Ghazali was shown to be error 17 times,and when the smoke cleared, Ghazali had won the day.

      From this time forward, Greek-based Muslim Philosophy and science lost steam and Muslim interest in natural science foundered. It has not recovered since.

      As expected, Ghazali won tremendous accolades from the theologians for his work. The political leadership of the Caliphs went along. So, the theologians went on naming many Mosques Al-Gazali Mosques, over the centuries, to this day, in gratitude for saving from the Philosophers. Some Theologians, especially Wahhabies, have gone so far as to discourage or ban Philosophy and Mathematics, as the works of the Devil, Satan.

      You all know the rest of the story. The Muslim leadership given by the Ulema, Mullah and Theologians have kept the Muslims backward ever since, while others advanced with the Age of reason and Enlightenment.

      When will the Age of Reason and enlightenment come to the Muslims?

      Listen to Stupidest Muslim Vs Neil Tyson – How ideology can ruin intellectual power.

      This is not a debate between some Muslim and Neil Tyson. But this video shows the thinking of some very well educated 21’st century Muslim (I don’t know he is ignorant, stupid or dishonest. But he is one for sure) and Neil Tyson speaking in a lecture about how Muslims intellectual power ruined by an ideology.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCxrL9-C84

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      Hafeel Farisz

      Part 3. Comment.

      3. “During his sons reign ( 8th century AD) this was the most predominant ideology- that ” reason supplants revelation”, and people who thought otherwise were persecuted ( wrong, but we are talking of 1200 years ago). Having said all of this, the Muslims of today, even these ‘ progressive’ Muslims have no clue about it.”

      The debate between the Philosophers and Theologians was quite well articulated by Ibn Rushd, Averroes, who was born after Hamid al-Ghazali, who should be considered one of the greatest Islamic scholars, Theologian, Philosopher and Polymath.

      He reasoned that the Quran was a book of knowledge, and only the philosophers were able to understand the knowledge.

      Let’s see what the most respected and the best Islamic Scholar and Philosopher, Ibn Rashd, Averroes, Ibn Rushd (14 April 1126 – 10 December 1198), full name (ʾAbū l-Walīd Muḥammad Ibn ʾAḥmad Ibn Rushd‎), had to say about these Quranic interpretations, by the Theologians and Islamic “Scholars”, and the masses who listen to the Theologians.

      The Islamic Scholars are hung up on whether the Quran was created and temporal or uncreated or eternal. Reading the works of Averroes, the top Islamic Scholar of All time, says that he is not hung up.( Some Islamic “Scholars” and others are still hung up on the Earth spinning on its axis and moving around the Sun.)

      On Top, those who understand the “Holy Book”, and therefor by corollary, the Sharia.

      1. The People with knowledge- The Philosophers. The Quran is for them to interpret accurately.

      2. The Theologians are Literalists*. They are like Parrots. They are literalists.

      * adherence to the exact letter or the literal sense, as in translation or interpretation:

      3. The Common People. They just listen, to whatever, the Theologians say.
      Idiotic “Theologians” such as Abdul Wahhab says, idiotic things, the Wahhabi’s, who do not know do and follow.

      Remember, The Catholic Theologians were wrong on the geocentric model of the planetary system, and still did NOT accept what Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler were showing with Data about the Heliocentric system.

      It was about Self-Interest of the Theologians. In Islam, it is not different.

      Question: When will the Age of Reason and Enlightenment arrive for Muslims? What about the Scientific Method that preceded it.

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      [Edited out] Comments should not exceed 300 words.Please read our Comments Policy for further details.

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        Hafeel Farisz

        Part 4 . Comment. (131 Words)

        Part 4 . Why the Muslims are Behind? Just look at Saudi Arabia, and the performance of the Saudi GMAT scores, compared to the rest of the world.
        They put Revelation above Reason, investigation, and data.

        Saudi Arabia is controlled by Wahhabi Ulama and Clerics. They control the education system and the education is very heavy in learning the Quran, Hadith and root memorization, with very little critical thinking and innovation. One may extend this to some other Muslim countries, but not to all.

        The results. Saudi Arabian graduates have the lowest GMAT scores, around 320.

        Regression Plot: The regression plot for GMAT scores and L&V’s (2012) Estimated National IQs is shown below.

        https://humanvarietiesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/gmatregressionplot.png

        L&V’s National IQs predict GMAT scores across 173 nations

        http://humanvarieties.org/2014/02/02/quick-post-lvs-national-iqs-predicts-gmat-scores-across-173-nations/

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    Is he in the same league as the current Hero , Yahapalana Minister Dr Rajitha Senaratna.!!!!!

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    Thank you Hafeel, useful thoughts. Enjoyed your previous two articles too. Anoozer, thank you for an excellent piece; I suspect the majority of Muslims are ignorant of the contributions detailed in your article. Javed

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    There are lots of articles from apparent Muslim scholars. The them of most of the article is of similar theme.

    “Justice Weeramantry – Hero Of Muslims”
    “Yahapālanaya Lapses – Is Mahinda The Option For Muslims?”
    etc etc

    for Allah’s sake where are your Muslim leaders.

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      Rajash

      “for Allah’s sake where are your Muslim leaders”

      They have joined the Devil, Satan, Iblis, following Wahhabites(Wahhabies, Salafies, Tauhidis, ISIS, Boko-Haram, Taliban, Deobandi) with the Aid of Wahhabi-Saudi Petro Dollars.

      They do not want to change MMDA, due to Wahhabi Dollars. The pressure is coming from Non-Muslims to change the MMDA.

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        Amarasiri “They do not want to change MMDA”

        yes they want to marry 12 year old children and fxxx them.
        Not just one but four

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