18 May, 2024

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A Common Presidential Candidate From A Fractured Tamil Identity?

By S. Ratnajeevan H. Hoole

Prof S. Ratnajeevan H. Hoole

Wigneswaran’s Ideas for a Common Candidate

C.V. Wigneswaran recently floated the idea of Gajendrakumar Ponnambalam as a common  Tamil candidate for the presidential elections this year. I strongly suspect that Wigneswaran was trying to interject himself, while appearing to suggest Ponnambalam, whose family name raises suspicion for having deprived estate Tamils of their citizenship. Both men were described by Colombo Gazette as hardliners (7 Aug. 2020) presumably because they could not keep their word to the TNA. Anyway, they are weak in the East where both Wigneswaran and Ponnambalam hardly got any votes in the 2020 parliamentary elections.  Wigneswaran got 1.66% of the vote in Batticaloa and 0.66% in Trinco. Ponnamabalam’s Tamil National People’s Front did not contest in Batticaloa and got only 0.85% of the vote in Trinco. The very foundational reasons for a common candidate are lost when the proposed candidates are nobodies in the East. 

A northern candidate needs solid support in the East. But the only possibility is Cheeannah Yogeswaran, who is Wigneswaran’s partner in Christian-bashing. He has been named as a possible successor to Mr. Sambanthan by D.B.S. Jeyaraj in what he calls a triangular contest between him, M.A. Sumanthiran and S. Shritharan. We Tamils should never propose a common candidate who is well-known for anti-Christian diatribes and Hindutva jingoism. We should say a resounding no to Wigneswaran as a Common Candidate, as well as to any of his proteges who are divisive Saiva supremacists determined to undermine anything that unites Tamils.

Taking from an old article of mine, and echoing the words of Velupillai Thangavelu who has blasted Wigneswaran for many errors, our Chief Minister “is a devotee of [Matara’s] Premananda. This Premananda was convicted of raping under-aged orphans living in his [Indian] Ashram. He was convicted of murdering a young engineer Ravi at the Ashram.” Premananda’s victims were Jaffna children who followed him to India for safety after the 1983 riots. He was sentenced by the Indian courts to double life-imprisonment and an I-Rs 66.4 lakh fine. 

Shortly after his election as CM (by when his Guru Premananda had died in prison), Wigneswaran requested PM Modi to release three Premananda devotees convicted for life for raping 13 Sri Lankan Tamil girls (including minors), and conspiring to murder ashram inmate Ravi who objected to the rapes and abortions by Premananda. Despite the evidence, and the various appeals turned down by the Supreme Court of India, Wigneswaran argued unsuccessfully with the Indian PM that these convictions were wrong.

In a Thinappuyal interview on 14.04.2017, Wigneswaran was asked about his being a devotee of a convicted criminal. He justified these acts by declaring that Jesus Christ himself was convicted 2000 years ago but that people now worship him as God – essentially equating Jesus’ conviction by a mob to Premananda’s formal conviction in an Indian court affirmed by multiple reviews. Other remarks he made during this interview were even more damaging. According to senior writer Shamindra Ferdinando (Island 09.05.2017), Wigneswaran subsequently began to worry about Catholic outrage, and the Thinappuyal “website has (now) deleted extremely controversial sections of the interview on Wigneswaran’s request.”

Wigneswaran’s Foot in his Mouth

Wigneswaran continues his anti-Christian diatribes. Speaking at the Thirtieth Anniversary Celebrations of the Department of Hindu Religious and Cultural Affairs (Uthayan, front page, 19.11.2016), Wigneswaran first talked up Arumuga Navalar’s brilliance, failing to mention that Navalar never finished school, despite languishing as a student from 1834 to 1847 and is on record in his own plaintive words that his juniors had finished and gone on to get good jobs. Then Wigneswaran said that the missionaries knew that local Christians came to work for them only for the money, but that Navalar was different so the job of Bible translation was given to him. He event stated that Navalar’s knowledge of the Bible exceeded that of the Christian clergy. It was an absurd boast about one who the historical record shows was like a valet to Missionary Percival without a salary. In reality, Navalar did not translate the Bible into Tamil. He joined Principal Percival’s college at the age of 12, and was still a student 13 years later when he, according to The Morning Star, 25.11.1847 (and also Emerson Tennent), walked out with nearly half the boys objecting to Percival admitting Gabriel Jeroni of the toddy-tapping Nalavar caste. He then founded a school for upper castes, but because the teaching there was deficient, most students returned to Percival. This puts Wigneswaran’s history in the mythological genre – faith-based wishful thinking transformed into pseudo history, abusing the powers of the majority.

Insulting the Pope

Wigneswaran continues to insult Christians who, comprising 20% of the Jaffna electorate and forming the ITAK-Chelvanayagam base, made Wigneswaran CM. As attensted by an Uthayan writer, there were red flags about his character event at the time, such as a reporter having to be persuaded not to publish investigative photographs taken looking into Wigneswaran’s bedroom. The occasion of insulting the Pope was an argument with NPC’s S. Thavarasa, who accused Wigneswaran of not delivering. Wigneswaran thereupon retorted that the Pope makes statements repeatedly to see himself in the news, and that Thavarasa was doing just that (vide Record 102 NPC sitting, 17.08.2017 around 9:30 am; Virakesary 21.08.2017). Wigneswaran’s insular mind cannot comprehend that the Pope, being such an important global figure, has very little need to chase publicity.

Amusingly, the day I read of this, Wigneswaran’s numerous statements in just one newspaper, Thinakkural, were in three different pictured articles.

Only Saivites are Tamils: Others are Tamil Speakers

At the same Hindu Religious and Cultural Affairs celebrations where Wigneswaran spoke, he was followed by his sidekick in religious hate-speech, then Batticaloa District MP Cheeannah Yogeswaran. On that day, Yogeswaran, vituperating as the speaker at the Hindu festival after Wigneswaran in partnership, outdid Wigneswaran in his hate for low-castes, especially Christian low-castes.

To describe Yogeswaran’s gimmickry, it was in 2006 in Vaharai that my one-time Parish Priest at St. James’ Nallur, Rev. Fr. Gnanakarunyan, was Assistant Priest. Yogeswaran was an aspiring politician. Their paths crossed when attending to displaced refugees. Yogeswaran, disgustingly, expectorated phlegm and spat at Fr. Gnanakarunyan – the case of a marginal Tamil from Batticaloa trying to assert caste-status by insulting another marginal Tamil. The irony is that Rev. Gnanakarunyan was unfairly accused under the PTA and spent over a year in jail and yet is called a non-Tamil by Yogeswaran who has not suffered as much for being Tamil. 

Yogeswaran asserted (Virakesari, 19.11.2017) that the mark of a race is its religion; that it has been shown that it is only Saivites who are truly Tamils; and that only Tamils can be Saivites, and that all others are not Tamil, but Tamil speakers. He stated that Navalar’s dreams  — of upper-caste Hindu nationalist dominance — came true when Wigneswaran, a Saivite, was elected Chief Minister.

Then the punch-line – referring obviously to the iconic Christian founder of the ITAK, Samuel JV Chelvanayagam – Yogeswaran said that some people had

unfortunately been elected as leaders of the people in violation of this Navalar vision. Few come into politics to safeguard Saivism, he added. He wanted Navalar’s vision to be upheld, continuing that we must follow Saiva culture and eat Saiva food. He advocated vegetarianism, and then in the same breath, regretted that few temples now have animal sacrifice. Is this fair, he asked, seemingly unaware of his own contradictions.

The people of Batticaloa had the good sense to kick him out of Parliament in 2020. 

The Saiva Juggernaut

The Saiva juggernaut, led by Wigneswaran, is inexorably moving in Jaffna crushing all in its path. A small shrine is built on public land and then expanded – just like the Buddhist temples sprouting up, but to which we Tamils object. No one dares complain for fear of being accused of being anti-Hindu. We are silenced because of this fear. As Prof. K. Sivathamby wrote, Christians live in fear in Jaffna – ghettoized and oppressed.

A case in point is the just concluded Nallur Thiruvilla. Point Pedro Road used to run between the Kandasamy Temple and its idol’s bath pond (Theerthang-kerni). That posed a hazard for devotees crossing Point Pedro Road from the temple to get to the pond. Point Pedro Road was therefore diverted around the pond and the land acquired by the temple. Now at festival time to go to my food boutique run by shop-keeper Chokkan, I am asked to remove my footwear because it is “holy ground” despite the cuds of betel chew spat everywhere by devotees. A Hindu relative who lives in the closed zone had to remove his shoes to get home. He asked the police by whose order he had to remove his shoes. It turns out that Shayanthan Kumaradas Maapaana Mudaliyar, the son of the temple owner, called the police daily to give instructions, which they obeyed, and in turn had special poojas performed for their families.

The Vinayagar Kovil

Can such acquisitiveness be unfair when only the Buddhists do it, but not when the LTTE does the same thing? The Vinayagar Kovil on Chemmany Road, 50 m from my home is unique and deserves mention as the only temple constructed by the LTTE, says Balasundaram Palanivel who controls two festivals at the growing temple.

Balasundaram Palanivel in front of Booming and Growing Vinayagar Kovil in Kittu Park

St. James’ Church Nallur had Chemmany Road running from Muththirai Chanthai [market and not Chanthi (junction) as many incorrectly say, not knowing it was a market up to the 1960s] to the front gate of the Church, turning right and immediately left to run along the Church boundary to Chemmany. Up to the 1970s boys would play by the open area in front of the church by Chemmany Road. When the government wanted to use that area for office buildings, my late father, the Vicar of St. James’ then, mounted a campaign with village elders and got the plan abandoned. The government listened to us. 

Original Chemmany Road to St. James’ Blocked by Overgrown Kittu Park

Later, after the LTTE took over Jaffna, they took over the road in front of the Church from the Church entrance to Muthirai Chanthai and made it Kittu Park. Properties by the original Chemmany Road lost value. Those in little huts down a narrow strip along the straightened Chemmany Road became rich overnight. Objections to the LTTE were unthinkable by then. 

When I was a boy, a foot-high stone was placed by the side of the playground by one Appathurai. As it grew and the LTTE put up Kittu Park, they built up the temple, taking over the land, and fencing the temple with wooden walls. After the demise of the LTTE, the locals built concrete walls. Technically the land belongs to the municipality  which is unlikely to ever assert control. They have in fact essentially ceded the land as temple property by erecting a barbed wire fence around it.

Vinayagar Kovil  has now grown into a large temple. Like the Buddhists, we Tamils too are good at acquiring public land for Hindu use. My friend and neighbor Palanivel attends to the temple across which he runs his grocery boutique. 

As Protestant Christianity is weakened by fear of the Hindutwas, the Church seems weak. At St. James’, Archdeacon Selvan preached Erham Sat (every religion is true. Priest Stephen (who was sacked from his position as Dean at Pilimatalawa Theological College for leaking question papers, in turn creating a generation of priests desensitized to cheating) has been posted to St. James’. He wants to celebrate Hindu events like Navaratri and Pongal. Meanwhile, the prayerbook has deleted the words “You only are Holy, you only are the Lord” from the ancient hymn Gloria in Excelsis Deo that expresses right theology and faith during high service. Pilimatalawa Lecturers explain that the deleted words deny holiness and lordship to Krishna, Mohammed, et al. Bishops Dhilo Canagasabey and Dushantha Rodrigo have authorized the deletion of these prayers despite a near unanimous resolution by the Church’s Council demanding correction. The question is, when is a Church transformed into a Hindu Kovil? Has St. James’ with the Church of Ceylon crossed the line to make St. James’ Church become St. James’ Chaiva Kovil? I am saddened because St. James’ is where my great-great-grandfather (Tamil Pandit at St. John’s and later priest there) was ordained in 1866 and my grandfather and father served as priests.

The culture of fear silences any protest. Homosexuals, child-molesters, womanizers those caught forging cheques, all celebrate at the altar as priests without punishment. As Fr. Selvan says, Erham Sat. At parishes like St. John’s a member who returned to Jaffna with his mother’s ashes for burial in the family plot, has been waiting because the parish wants him to pay $150 to bury the urn in a grave the family already owns. Curiously Archdeacon Selvan, Bishop Rodrigo, Parish Priest Jebachelvan and the St. John’s Wardens are passing the buck to each other on the charge, although the Church Constitution is explicit that one who goes abroad and returns does not lose privileges – which include burial at local rates. Many have left the church (specializing in bilking foreign members) including Bavani Christopher who lives across Vinayagar Kovil and knows its history. I have the options of my parents’, or grandparents’ or great grandparents’ grave and one I bought for Rs. 15,000, all at St. James’, but the issue of my receiving communion elsewhere because the Anglican priests are apostates remains an obstacle to my burial in these graves. 

Who as a Common Candidate?

There are parallels with the church, literacy, connectedness, and identity being central themes in proper understanding of the issues.

 If Tamils are to put forward a Tamil candidate, Philip Vasantharajan from Australia is in Jaffna planting thoughts. Based on the ineffectiveness of monolingual MPs – he urges the choice of candidates who are fluent in English and Tamil, or, even better, trilingual. He says no candidates with more than ten years as MP. People like R. Sambanthan and V. Anandasangari can play the role of guiding elders who know outsiders and know the history, and have not been associated with violence. He plugs for Shanakiyan Rajaputhiran Rasamanickam  and Mathiyaparanam Abraham Sumanthiran (who closely  fails the 10-year test)  for the next leader. Perhaps Jeevan Thondaman can be drawn back into the original TULF. Vasantharajan says only those passing the language test are any good in putting our case across outside Tamil circles. We need candidates who accept the equal rights of all regardless of religious persuasion, caste and gender. Indian state support for our rights needs rekindling as we cannot progress without Indian support even for the 13th Amendment. We cannot wait for 2 years for the next parliament as Ranil Wickremesinghe suggests because by then our electoral strength with be further weakened through colonization, especially in the East. And Ranil may be gone. 

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Latest comments

  • 4
    1

    With a Presidential Election round the corner, it would take a few months to negotiate the corner,hopefully,the essayist has launched an attack on Wigneswaran, Yogeswaran,Ponnambalam,Navalar [ The essayist once described him as one who looked like a tadpole! ], Hindu,Christian, low caste,high caste etc reminds me of the famous quote by Cicero………….
    O tempora, O mores………..

    Oh! the times!
    Oh! the customs!

    • 2
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      Plato,
      You are uncharacteristically careless. I never said Navalar looked like a tadpole. Let me quote from my book “Heritage Histories”:
      To quote Navalar’s adulating nephew Kailasapillai and Poolohasingam who describe Navalar as looking like a tadpole with small limbs and a huge head; his adulating nephew who describes Navalar as having tiny ears and a big forehead on a huge head, thin hands and legs, “strong” facial hair, and huge body without any strength for not doing any bodily work;
      and Chaivapperiyar Shivapathasundaram, who admits to using Kailasapillai as source and waters down anything negative, telling us that Navalar “had a delicate constitution and he never took any kind of bodily exercise. He was a perfect stranger to sports and games. His head alone was massive.”

      I am not in the business of calling people ugly or pretty. But why is Navalar’s true image hidden from all of us, the newest statue being of a handome white fellow in front of his museum? The painting that passes for his is of someone they say looked like him. On that let me quote Chaivap-priyaar Shivapathasundaram:

      The image that passes for Navalar’s is “of recent origin” and “no more gives his true form than the images of the Samaya guravas in temples give their true forms. This portrait of Navalar is adapted from that of a friend of mine [Shivapathasundaram’s] he was supposed to resemble.

      Almost everything about Navalar is fiction as I have shown.

      • 3
        2

        Prof. Ratnajeevan.

        I am conscious of the fact that you are in the know of Arumuga Navalar,much more than me. In that context I stand corrected .

        I was only going by some comment by one of the readers on these pages
        who was conversant with your views.
        Anyway,Mea Culpa Mea Maxima Culpa.

        • 3
          2

          A gentleman. Thank yoiu

          • 4
            0

            Dear JM,
            January 3, 2024 Author: S. Ratnajeevan H. Hull245 comments
            best wishes !
            This article has broken all records with the highest number of comments in recent times. It can become a record because the authors are directly involved in his comments along with his feedback.

            • 1
              4

              More rubbish from “leelagemalli”. This, no doubt is how LM puts on so many comments. Can’t even make sure that he spells Jeevan’s name right! Now, a little before mid-night, the comments are at 297.

              Earlier today, the NPP has had a women’s rally in Galle. For Tamil readers, especially, here’s a short report in English:
              .
              https://www.dailymirror.lk/breaking-news/Ranil-in-quandary-over-which-election-to-announce-first-AKD/108-274597
              .
              For those who can understand Sinhala, here’s the full meeting:
              .
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKys5Lvwp8M
              .
              3 hours and 6 minutes of it. An all women’s affair again, with a major speech by AKD which I listened to, and a speech by one man, Nalin Hewage. Since I didn’t know much about Hewage (and that despite both my parents “hailing” from the Galle District, I did some finding out:
              .
              He’s the Chief Organiser of the NPP for the Galle District.

      • 4
        1

        “Almost everything about Navalar is fiction “
        That could more correctly apply to what is claimed to have been ‘shown’.

        • 3
          4

          A nasty comment. Everything I have said about Navalar as untrue, comes with a reference. As a postdoc for 15 years (unable to get a good job with compensation (pithuraarchitman to use Navalar-nephew T Kailasapillai’s word in his 1918 book on Navalar), SJ should know that his opinions must be backed by references. He cannot make arguments on his personal opinions. No wonder he had to show his 15 years as postdoc to become a senior professor at Peradeniya which requires 8 years as professor which SJ did not have. So he followed the Navalar track to be a teacher after walking out on Percival to be a teacher in hus own school.

          • 5
            4

            This SJ is the man who cheated to be Senior Professor and then signed at Jaffna that I am unqualified to be Senior Lecturer. That is how cheats protect their turf.

            • 5
              5

              Two big lies in one go.

              • 2
                2

                I have the signed documents with Prof. Sivasegaram’s signature on my alleged disqualification It proves what a horrible liar he is. Would CT publish them if I sent them to the editor. I have ither documents showing the requirement of 8 years as professor and his supervisor’s appreciation in a prestigious journal stating he was a postdoc for 15 years. When I started digging, the Deputy Registrar begged me not to complain saying he could be sacked for his lack if diligence

                • 3
                  0

                  I have had enough repetition of these lies merely to project you as a clean.
                  *
                  A selection committee has competent people and a member abides by the decision of the committee, unless there is cause to dissent.
                  The applicant concerned used RTI to get a report from the University about the selection process. Do not pretend that you do not know the details.
                  I cannot add any more, unless you get permission from the University for me to say it all.
                  *
                  By your own admission long ago you tried your best to influence the UGC and failed. The AR concerned must have had a hearty laugh.
                  Produce a scrap of paper where I have made a false claim or omitted relevant information in any of my applications for any post.

            • 2
              0

              JM,
              .
              J.M.
              .
              Why don’t you guys clarify those issues elsewhere in the past?
              Because the current focus is on politics.
              Lankans must learn to forgive and forget and look forward, otherwise, like “Colombo stagnant and stinking Baira Lake”, things would remain entangled and that will be the biggest obstacle to other progressive steps ahead of us.

              It seems to me that it is very complicated to build a consensus on any issue in the north and east, compared to that of South Sri Lanka, where everything has been misled hugely by the Mahinda thinking. Is not that the reason why this ethnic issue remains like tantalus of torments ?

              • 0
                2

                Thank you, dear “leelagemalli”.
                .
                You are now advocating what I have told you many times in comments here, and in the many emails that flew between us, and in the few long chats that we have had on WhatsApp.
                .
                In practice, however, will you apply that to your thinking, and to what you write. I mean by that will you get over with your obsession with the period from 1988 to 1990 when you were at Peradeniya University. I know that there were nasty incidents, and you would have witnessed some. However, very little was investigated, and we can’t say much was proved.
                .
                No, you must not forget, but please acknowledge uncertainty about responsibility. Forgive.
                .
                Now listen objectively to what the NPP is saying. If you want to, you may say that I go overboard in supporting the NPP, but try to be balanced in 2024.
                .
                May it turn out to be a good one for most Lankans!
                .
                Panini Edirisinhe (NIC 483111444V)

          • 3
            3

            Not a fraction as nasty than your regular bile.

            • 2
              0

              Author
              This is from someone who is trying to be nice I guess:
              “I have a question for you, can you wear your dainty gowns, go to the His Excellence Presidential Palace, using your refined, polished languages and ask the Evil man if Tamils can borrow from China? “
              *
              I cannot match his style.

              • 1
                1

                What is this man SJ wrriting about?

        • 2
          2

          Hello SJ
          In the words of Pontius Pilate “Quid est veritas?”

          Best regards

          • 2
            2

            LankaScot
            Thanks and Warm Regards.

          • 2
            0

            “Quid est veritas?”
            I have no idea what kind of taste you seeks to satisfy by digging into those dirt.
            To tell the correctness of them both (I do not want to use the word truth), they both are excellently expressive of each other.
            If find you a cesspool to wallow for them instead of CT, they will be much happy there for their mudslinging games. Yet don’t expect to be faithful or thankful.

    • 7
      0

      “Oh! the Customs,”
      It looks like Prof. Hoole is trying to create a division among Tamils using clashes between different religious groups during this presidential election. The religious fundamentalism never appeared during the leadership of SJV or leadership of Prabhaharan. This presidential election is to elect a person among Buddhist Sinhalese people as a dictator. So far, none of the political leadership elected in this process never bothered about Tamil votes.The Tamil votes may indirectly only when there is a strong leadership competition when there are more than two competitive election. In this presidential election, there is a confusion among Sinhalese people because the country was brought to bankruptcy and Sinhalese were suffered a lot than before directly the candidates misconduct.
      The current scenario is:
      Ranil is one candidate but not sure with or without SLPP which was directly responsible for bankcruptcy.
      There may be a candidate from SLPP
      Sajith Premadasa from SJB
      Anura from NPP.
      Until Election candidate announce come from the election we will not know three or four candidates and it is definitely three candidates. It is expected by analysts that Anura of NPP will be a challenging competitor. In this case, the most important factor is how Sinhalese going to use 2nd and 3rd preference. Do we know which way NPP voters use the 2nd or 3rd preference? Similarly, do we know how the Ranil voters or SJB or SLPP voters vote? This is going to be billion dollar question. Prof. Hoole, Please don’t create a blood bath among Tamils.

      • 4
        3

        A
        Should he not be made the common candidate?
        That could achieve an effectively total boycott that you may wish.

        • 2
          3

          Good try SJ.
          As a US Citizen, I am not eligible to be a presidential candidate. You are again and again proving the very nasty side of your character., talking through your hat.

          • 3
            0

            But you can do a GR, whose candidacy you facilitated in your own way.

          • 3
            0

            Nasty?
            Do not flatter me too much.
            I grant you that you are the very personification of that trait.

          • 2
            1

            Jaffna Man – as SJ here has already pointed out you could always renounce your US citizenship like others before you have done and contest.
            .
            Judging by the interest your essay here has generated, as much as or even more interest than articles on AKD have generated do far, you may be a better candidate for the job.
            .
            With an Ex-US citizenship nothing I believe could go wrong. You could steal both Basils and Ranils share of votes, in addition to the Tamil ones!

            • 2
              0

              R
              He has to be thankful to me more than to you for the idea as I said it first.

              • 1
                0

                SJ – No question there. All credits go to you. I just wanted to give a little extra push. He seems like a decent person, well meaning and intended.

            • 3
              1

              Thank you for your suggestion. But no thanks.
              I need the protection of my US citizenship with nasties (read Nazis, Peking Communists) like SJ around.
              I fled Sri Lanka twice and it is thanks to my US citizenship that I got gainfully employed in the US

          • 3
            2

            JM,
            if whole lot of people in N and E provinces would expect you to go for it, why not you renounce your US citizenship and stand by for people ?

            I think Wiggie is more provocative by his thoughts, however you already having sat with mlechcha men of MACO nature (Mahinda Deshapriya who is SLPP supporter or the like), you might have more collected experience how this approach should work properly.

  • 8
    5

    Frankly, the question of a common candidate seems rather incidental to this outpouring.

    • 13
      1

      Yes, it is and I agree with you. I am a Protestant Christian and an Anglican and in my opinion the author of this article is a Christian Fundamentalist strangely accusing others of being Hindu fundamentalism. Of course, Tamil history and culture, despite being secular, has been essentially Saivite and drawn its rich culture, art forms and even most of its poetry from Saivism/Hinduism and the Thamizh are essentially Saivites in their culture and way of life. However, this person like many Christian and Islamic Thamizh fundamentalist refuse to recognize this truth and keeps on berating the 80-85% Hindus amongst the island’s Thamizh. Unlike the Muslim Thamizh most Christian Thamizh are fully integrated with their Saivite Thamizh brothers and sister and have successfully integrated many of their ancient Thamizh customs into their Thamizh Christian culture and also acknowledge their Thamizh Hindu ancestry. Most upper caste Thamizh Christian families still retain their ancient Thamizh Hindu family names too and very few have taken on western missionary family names. However now noticed many so called born again American style Christian Thamizh fundamentalists are now popping up and trying to divide and separate the Chrisian Thamizh, away from their Thamizh roots and to a strangely white western Christian identity and culture.

      • 4
        4

        pk
        There is Vellala Hindu bigotry that needs confronting. But the way in which the author sets about the matter is designed to provoke hostility.

        • 2
          7

          “despite being secular, has been essentially Saivite and drawn its rich culture, art forms and even most of its poetry from Saivism/Hinduism and the Thamizh are essentially Saivites”
          How does one reconcile this claim with all five major epics of Tamil being either Jain or Buddhist, and the gratest work of ethics reflecting Jain and Buddhist values, and the absence of any major Saivaite classic until Periya Puranam, slightly preceding the two more lively Vaishnavaite classics?
          In fact there are far more references to Vishnu (Maal) in post Sangam literature than to Sivan.
          Also, for purity of language and beauty of literature, the Vaishnavaite ‘Naalaayira Pirpantham’ surpasses most Saivaite hymns,with perhaps the exception of Thiruvacakam that came 2-3 centuries later.
          Tamil literature was pretty much secular in the Sangam period and Aryan gods take over in the post-Sangam period.
          *
          Sadly we have been denied the joy of reading much of the non-Saivaite literature in our tradition so that the myth of Tamil–Saiva unity has endured.

          • 2
            0

            Come on, you are not the one to rate Thevara Literature. Sampanthar died before he was 16, most probably in his wedding shed, which was set on fire by Jain and Buddhist pundits, who could not stand debates, which Sampanthar kept repeatedly asking for. End of the period of Sampanthar and Appar, Jains and Buddhists started to close their shops and leave, after all, all kings of that time were only Jains and Buddhists. They both own the credit of having revived Saivam in Tamil Nadu paving way for abandoning the Jains and Buddhism throughout India. There is nowhere any history said about Alvars getting involved in reviving any part of Hinduism, in Tirupati they sing Pirapanthams with Veda, but Chithabaram Brahmins resided that, lately.
            If you want to prove your punditry of Tamils’ nature of Apar or Sampanthar’ Thevarams, please bring the Thevarams (10) starting with “Unnamulai Umaiyalaudum” and write your comments. Then I will go with you through it. You bring any Alvar’s writing and other than Priyalvar’s. Then you compare the superiority of that hymn to the one which the boy who died before 16 wrote.
            https://shaivam.org/to-practise/thirugnanasambandhar-thevaram-thiruannamalai-unnamulai-umaiyalotum#gsc.tab=0
            Chekillar wrote Periyapuranam, only to hail Nayanars. You missed the point.

            Sampanthar never wrote anything in dry logic or religious format. His writings are extremely adorable Tamil narration, mixing love, philosophy, history, geography…….

            • 2
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              You may make a fair dinkum good defence lawyer for a murderous criminal.
              What is this piece by the young man about?”

              He clearly seeks divine permission to commit rape.
              *
              I owe an apology to another reader for exonerating the Pandiya king for the impalement of 8000 Jains by saying that it was a Pallava misdeed.

              • 0
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                Sorry that I could not provide the English translation of the stanza where he explicitly seeks permission to rape Jain women.
                So the relevant text goes missing.

          • 1
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            Your chief defect is that you just browse something and then prove you have invented that. You insist that Chilapathikaram is Jain’s religious work. First Jainism too was born out of Hinduism, retaining hindu culture. When you are in a nasty mood downgrading Tamil and or Saivam, you pick up some things and freeze the entire history of the Language or region to that point. In the Sangam time, as you attempt to show, Vaishnavam and Saivam were not treated as two different things. All life aspects were associated with the four land categories Tamils lived in. So, the language, culture, religions and all other aspects of lives were associated with the main income earning occupation done by that lander. So, Thirumal, Siva, Muruga, Kali all had their lands. It is only empty chaff like you will argue that Vaisnavite produced highly classical works, but they didn’t. On the side of Buddhists and Jains, they banned anything related to love. Because of this dominance exerted with the king’s power, love stories like Sakuntham were not written in Tamils, in Sangam time. Thirunakukarsar, Illanko and Valluvar studied other religions, but returned to Hinduism and hailed it. Thirunakukarasar swore to reverse History. Valluar stood in the middle logical path. Illanko returned to Hinduism with his brother’s political influence. Chilapathikaram a Hindu literature assumes the freedom to justify Kovalan’s promiscuity.

            • 2
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              Saivaite Silapathikaram?
              When was it written?
              Must be as amusing as your writings here.

        • 0
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          Like SJ says the problems of caste for Roman Catholics and Protestants converting for gain

    • 5
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      This is how they ensure that those affected do not complain.

  • 9
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    “Yogeswaran asserted (Virakesari, 19.11.2017) that the mark of a race is its religion; that it has been shown that it is only Saivites who are truly Tamils; and that only Tamils can be Saivites, and that all others are not Tamil, but Tamil speakers.”

    Of course this has nothing to do with CVW. However, taking on this uninformed Vaharai Yogeswaran is valid. Yes, at one time, all were essentially Saivites. Being Saivites mean there is no founder, it merely a way of living as a society.

    Islam and Christianity found a wide open space within and had converted a significant portion of those people. They all are Tamils, except that Islam, being a self-contained faith, took only the language and some elements of culture, while the Christian Tamils are totally integrated with the Saivites. A rose is a rose by any other name.

    • 3
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      fmo
      Muslims here are partly (not necessarily predominantly) of Arab ancestry and partly of Indian origin. Even Arab descendants chose Tamil because it was, at the time, the main language of trade in the region. Also with a large Muslim community in south India, Tamil was more helpful than Sinhala to keep the faith. All literate Muslims can read and write Arabic. Muslims (including the light skinned sharp featured ones) have been great scholars of Tamil and today the majority of quality creative writing in Tamil is by Muslims.
      As for Christians, there is a Caste divide that determined integration.
      Protestant converts were pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.
      Catholics, with an earlier origin, had a caste identity to cope with which blocked the way to integration with Hindus as a community. They are more committed to their faith than Hindus ans protestants. A good part of them (on the western coast) switched to Sinhala a little over a century ago. (One has only caste-ridden Jaffna Vellala bigotry to blame.)

      • 4
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        “Protestant converts were pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.
        “Catholics, with an earlier origin, had a caste identity to cope with which blocked the way to integration with Hindus as a community. They are more committed to their faith than Hindus ans protestants. A good part of them (on the western coast) switched to Sinhala a little over a century ago. (One has only caste-ridden Jaffna Vellala bigotry to blame.)”

        So says a Trincomalee bigot. SJ, your slip is showing. This is absolute bigotry. A slur on faithful Protestants’ faith, and indeed a slur on the caste identity of Roman Catholics.

        • 3
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          Much of conversion to Protestant Christianity was persuaded by material needs. I never blamed or insulted any for their pragmatism. It is no crime, but anti-Hindu fanaticism of some is another matter.
          You are good evidence of how a member of a clan of recent converts gets fanatical about his/her new found religion and goes on the attack on his/her previous faith.
          It perhaps comes naturally to some, like Fr Jerome for instance
          We have seen such in converts to the Sinhala language among certain caste groups.

          • 3
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            “slip is showing”?
            Yours are what show here amid your spilling of personal venom.

          • 5
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            Part 1 of 3
            SJ: “Protestant converts were pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.
            “Catholics, with an earlier origin, had a caste identity to cope with which blocked the way to integration with Hindus as a community. They are more committed to their faith than Hindus and protestants. “

            After 15 years as a postdoc, SJ should know the rules of proof. What proof does he offer that Roman Catholics are more committed to their faith. That is called SJ talking through his hat.

            SJ’s dark hint on Catholics [he means Roman Catholics, ignorant of the difference] having to cope with their caste identity is debunked by the fact that most (if not all) northern RC Bishops are Vellalas and there are large Vellala RC communities in places like Kayts and Mannar. To imply that all RCs are low caste is a case of SJ’s slip showing on his caste prejudices.

            As for Protestants converting for gain, let me educate SJ if he is educable. Under Dutch rule (1656-1795), which followed a century and a half of Portuguese rule (1505-1656), almost every Tamil belonged to the Dutch Reformed Church (S. Pathmanathan, 1986; p. 17). The Roman Catholic Church was banned by the Dutch. Thus by 1684, Jaffna had 180,364 Protestants in a population of 278,759 (Tennent, 1850, pp. 73-74), and by the year 1758 AD 200,233 Protestants (K.M. de Silva, 1981, p. 196).

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              Part 2 of 3
              Allowing for the large numbers of Roman Catholics and Muslims who refused to convert to the Dutch Church and ran away to Mullathivu and surroundings, it would appear that practically all Hindus had again converted, this time to Christianity. Therefore, there was no close caste identity to Christianity in Jaffna in Dutch times.

              SJ must truly be part of the large brand of Rice Hindus who converted from Dutch Christianity to Hinduism.

              The 15-year postdoc who pretended to have been a professor in London should know that a general claim is debunked with one counter-example. Let me offer one to counter his claim that Protestants converted for gain like his ancestors converted to the Saiva religion once it was clear that colonial Christianity would not receive state patronage after the William Wilberforce reforms of 1808 or so.
              My grandfather, The Rev. Canon Samuel Sangarapillai Somasundaram, came from a rich family with the right to raise the festival flag at Mavittapuram. His elder brother Viswanatha Mudaliyar (aka Mudaliyarpillai) of Karuhampaanai-Kollangaliddy had that right which would go to Sangarapillai Somasundaram with the title Kodimara-sangarar). The family was fabulously rich. Somasundaram was educated at Jaffna College and University of Calcutta at family expense where he was attracted to the claims of Christianity and took baptism in Calcutta. He paid fees at both institutions. He took no Rice. Made no gains.

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                Part 3 of 3
                Mudaliyarpillai took great offence at Somasundaram’s conversion as he was childless and had banked on Somasundram carrying the title Kodimara-Sangarar.
                As recorded by Bishop Sabapathy Kulandran’s biography “Life Sketch of Canon S.S. Somasundaram (CLS Books, Noolaham holding number 8725), Mudalyarpillai tied up his brother to a tree, whipped him and put chilli powder in his eyes. A kindly neighbour defied the village chief a few days later and released Somasundaram who ran away and ultimately became an Anglican priest with the specially created post of Dean at St. John’s College as befitted a BA Calcutta Mathematician in those days.
                Later, Somasundaram was begged to give one of his many sons to raise the festival flag but Somasundaram refused. Four years ago when I was involved in a dispute over Gajendrakumar Ponnambalam conducting an election meeting at the temple, the Mavittapuram Kurukkal gave me his card and told me I belong to the temple and should come back. I merely smiled.
                Even for his mother’s funeral [my great-grandmother Theivanaipillai’s], I recall relations from Kollangalatti coming home at the St.James’ Vicarage in an A40 car, and taking only my grandfather to the funeral house. Thankfully today, the families are together again, and attended my wedding.
                The point as some would ask? Somasundaram fails to fit the Rice Hindu SJ’s caricature model of Protestants as Rice Christians.

                • 4
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                  Do not out words in my mouth.
                  I did not use the term ” Rice Christians”. If you are one that is entirely your problem.
                  *
                  I said ” that Protestant Christians were pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.”
                  Is pragmatism a crime? Opportunism is bad. I know some who crossed the border twice for reasons admirable and not.
                  I wish we had pragmatic Tamils for leaders rather that bigots of various identities.
                  *
                  “Kurukkal gave me his card and told me I belong to the temple and should come back.”
                  Smart Brahmin.

                  • 4
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                    Do not put words in my mouth.
                    I did not use the term ” Rice Christians”. If you are one that is entirely your problem.

                  • 3
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                    Bluffing by a bigot!
                    By definition “The expression rice Christian is a derogatory slur used to describe someone who has formally converted to Christianity for material benefits rather than for religious reasons.”

                    Did readers not read SJ say (even in this comment) “pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.”
                    Is that not calling us Rice Christians?

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                      You seem to suffer from a severe complex. Seek help from someone more suited than God for that job.
                      Where have I called anyone a Rice Christian?
                      Being pragmatic is no sin. Are you not pragmatic? Have I ever faulted it.
                      Those Hindus did what any smart person would to succeed in life.
                      If there was another way they would have chosen it.
                      Some Buddhists did it far more cleverly to secure wealth and titles.
                      Morality and religion do not mix well.
                      So do not feel bad about it at all.
                      *
                      However, when someone claiming to be holier than any other transcends boundaries of pragmatism to crawl after politicians for various favours, I cannot resist a good laugh
                      But I did not call any such person a rank opportunist. Did I?

        • 6
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          No slur. If you think that any caste is low that is a reflection of your attitude.
          Regardless of religion, caste is a big barrier even today in Jaffna.
          If you like to pretend that caste is not a divisive force socially separating the bulk of the Catholics from Protestants, who still inter-marry with Hindus, I will not waste my breath trying to persuade you otherwise.

        • 3
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          See who is being nasty to call another a bigot.
          I am generally nicer to people than they deserve.
          See, have I called you a bigot ever, although others do?

      • 6
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        Only around 5% of the island’s Muslims have a partial Arab ancestry on the male line and this too a distant ancestor a few centuries ago and on their female line they are pure Dravidian Tamil, and even on this male line other than this original male ancestor or two all the rest have their ancestor again have been Tami. The rest of the 95% or basically of Dravidian Tamil descent. This has been proven now even by various DNA studies. Despite claiming a blanket Arab origin for the entire community, their DNA proved they have far less than average Arab/Other western Asian or North African ancestry. The latest DNA studies conducted by Sinhalese proves that the island’s Muslims are did not originate from any part of Western Asia as they love to claim but from South Asia, meaning South India. Modern day Tamil Nadu and Kerala (arrived here during a period when Kerala was also Tamil) This is the reason they speak Tamil and not for any other reason, as they are Tamil converts to Islam with a dash of Arab in a few hundred families. This does not make these people or the rest of the Muslims Arab.

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        1 of 3
        SJ: “Protestant converts were pragmatic Hindus who had things to gain beside the kingdom of God.

        This is a standard put down of the Christians by this group.

        It was widespread education and the teaching of Sanskrit and the Hindu scriptures which caused conversion that was truthful. Those who converted for rice returned to Hinduismduring the British. Jaffna was all Christian under the Dutch and at least primary Education for all was mandatory. University level education was given under the Portuguese and Dutch and then the British at the seminaries. The upper castes clamored for education. Downside was they were for the first time reading the vedas like

        In the beginning, the skin of cattle was the skin that humans have
        now, and the skin of a human was the skin that cattle have now. Cattle
        could not bear the heat, rain, flies, and mosquitoes. They went to
        humans and said, “Let this skin be yours and that skin be ours.”
        “What would be the result of that?” humans asked. “You could eat
        us,” said the cattle, “and this skin of ours would be your clothing.”
        And so they gave humans their clothing. Therefore, when the sacrificer
        puts on a red hide, he flourishes, and cattle do not eat him in the
        other world; for [otherwise] cattle do eat a human in the other world.

        Jaiminiya Brahmana (c. 600 BCE)2

        The vedas did not quite convince their students with developed analytical skills.

        • 0
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          Look here, I only stated a fact.
          No judgment passed on anything or anyone.
          So, let us not pretend that persuasion to convert is by people receiving a call from the heavens.
          Force was used by the Portuguese, and that was followed by other events.
          Protestant missionaries were not people of violence. They were persuasive in their own way. The Evangelists too have their own way. They fish in ponds including older churches to save Christians from their Christianity.
          What is wrong in someone seeing a benefit and switching sides?
          Look at Sinhala Buddhist converts. They are a cool lot.
          Some changed back as easily as changing a shirt. They knew that the Lord is understanding of his sheep. Some remained closet Christians. So What?
          Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da. Life goes on.
          *
          There is nothing to feel bad about your ancestors. They did things in good faith either way.
          Do not lose sleep over it.
          Do not get defensive, unless you feel guilt.

      • 1
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        Does SJ admit that some Muslims here in Sri Lanka have Sri Lankan heritage? Or does he in his demonstrated bigotry lump them all as Arab and Indian. He is takng after the other bigot Ramanathan who insulted Sri Lankan Muslims.

    • 10
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      the Archeology evidence in Sri Lanka highlights that Tamils in this island are living historically more than 2000 years before and Tamils also followed Buddhism in this country well before the creation of Sinhala language in this island. Tamils and its culture has a long history and it is absurd to divide using the religion.

      • 3
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        “the Archeology evidence”
        Can you point to a source please?

        • 5
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          Just google IBC Tamil “akalankam”
          you will find on you tube two videos interview with Prof. Paramu Pushparatnam

          • 3
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            I have respect for Prof PP.
            He does not provide evidence anywhere for what their religion was.
            Buddhism could have been there but not as the sole religion.

            • 2
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              Good to know that you respect Prof PP. The point is not about religion. He discusses evidence of Tamils long history on this island.

              • 2
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                The point is about your bogus claim about Buddhism and making PP a witness.

        • 3
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          Yes, in Killinchy, Palai, Tissamaharama…..3 century Bhrami Letters discovered.
          These evidences show that the Tamil language was in use in Sri Lanka before the 3rd century B.C. Evidences discovered during the excavations in Southern India, especially in Tamil Nāṭu andin Sri Lanka reveals that Brahmi potsherds were in use among the Early Iron Age people who lived before the 3rd century B.C. In … UOJ

          When did Tamils first arrive in Sri Lanka?

          3rd century BC
          Today the two major Tamil communities are the Sri Lankan Tamils, who came to the island in waves of migration starting from the 3rd century BC, and the more recent Indian Tamils of Sri Lanka, who were brought as indentured labourers by the British during the colonial period.
          -Wiki

          • 3
            1

            The latest is Balangoda civilization is showing connection to Deccan plains, Maharashtra, Gujarat….very old cultures. This was long ago before Dravidians settled in Indus Valley, around 11,000 years ago. Further research on this would established that before historical time people were walking in between Ceylon and India. That proves neither you nor your half brother Vijaya came here as fist peoples.

        • 0
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          Only SJ is allowed to say things through his hat without a source; for example that Roman Catholics are more faithful that Hindus and Protestants

  • 2
    23

    The so called “Tamil ethnicity” was formed in 1911 in Sri Lanka. Before the formation they were always known as Malabari slaves and Kallathonies.

    • 14
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      Really! Another of your fairy tales even you Mahavamsa fairy tale from the word go talks about Tamil people, Tamil kings and Tamil lands. What about the Tamil Jaffna Kingdom and the eastern Tamil Vannimai Chiefdoms. From your name Tony most probably, you are one of these descendants of these recently migrated immigrants from Tamil South India, who have now taken on a Sinhalese identity and now are the biggest anti Tamils, as they badly need to prove something.

      • 6
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        We all have a dash of something, but do not go around claiming that little bit as our main heritage in the name of our religion or for political or economic convenience. Even the Arabs from Saudi have checked and declared that the Sri Lankan Muslims are definitely of Arab descent but are South Asian converts to Islam, during the execution of Rizana Nafeek in Saudi Arabia has underlined the bogus claim of Arab ancestry by Sri Lankan Muslims (known as Ceylon Moors). Even the British Dutch Colonials who ruled the island have stated that the so-called Sri Lankan Moors or Muslims are Tamil converts to Islam. Many of the rich local Muslim families on the island like certain Malayali and north Indian upper castes have been doing selectively marrying light skinned females, over many generations and then claim this light skin is due to Arab or Aryan origin. Even most of the light skinned ones amongst them hardly look Arab but look like light skinned South Asians.

        • 6
          1

          From British colonial archives 1891. To sum up. It has been shown that the 185,000 Moors in the Island fall under two classes, “Coast Moors” and “Ceylon Moors,” in almost equal numbers; that the “Coast Moors” are those Muhammadans who, having arrived from the Coromandel coast or inner districts of South India as traders or labourers, continue steadily to maintain relations of amity and intermarAs regards the nationality of the “Ceylon Moors,” numbering about 92,500 out of the 185,000, we have ample reasons for concluding that they too are Tamils,—I mean the masses of them ; for, of course, we meet with a few families here and there—say, five per cent, of the community, or about 5,000 out of the 92,500—who bear the impress of an Arab or other foreign descentriage with their friends in South India; and that such “Coast Moors” are Tamils.

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            Even the small coterie of the Ceylon Moors, who claim for themselves and their co-religionists an Arab descent, candidly admit that on the mother’s side the Ceylon Moors are exclusively Tamil. All that remains to be proved, therefore, is, that their early male ancestors were mainly Tamils. For this purpose, I have sketched the history of the Ceylon Moors is to that of the Coast Moors; how intimately connected they were with each other till the Portuguese and Dutch began to persecute them in Ceylon; how intercourse between the mother-country in South India and Ceylon was arrested about 150, years ago; and how the distinction arose thereafter between the Ceylon Moors and the Coast Moors. By tracing in this manner their history, that is, their descent, I arrive at the conclusion that the early ancestors of the ” Moors,” Ceylon and Coast, were mainly Tamils on the father’s side, as admittedly they are exclusively on the mother’s side.

            • 6
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              Dr. Freeman’s contention, that “community of language is not only presumptive evidence of the community of blood but is also proof of something which for practical purposes is tlie same as community of blood,”1 ought to apply to the case of the Ceylon Moors. But, of course, in their case it is not language only that stamps them as Tamils. Taking (1) the language they speak at home in connection with (2) their history, (3) their customs and (4) physical features, the proof cumulatively leads to no other conclusion than that the Moors of Ceylon are ethnologically Tamils. The Dutch who believed that the Moors were only Tamil Muhammadans. Rev. James Cordiner, whose duties as Director of all Schools in Ceylon during the administration of Governor North, 1798-1805, afforded him great opportunities of collecting information and judging on all matters connected with the sociology of the Island. At p. 139 of his work on Ceylon he declares that the Moors are Tamils by race.

    • 2
      8

      May I know when your Kallathoni ancestors set foot in this island, as there were waves of Kallathonis each defining a caste?

      • 8
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        Much earlier than most of the present-day Sinhalese and when did yours. Again, as usual coming to the defense of nasty racist Sinhalese bigot, who constantly states only Sinhalese are indigenous and belong but not the Tamils or Muslim Tamils, when ironically half the so-called present day Sinhalese population are descended from post 15TH century South Indian Tamil immigrants and more than 90% of the Sinhalese Catholics and Protestant Christians have a very recent Tamil ancestry. This includes the cross dressing, Cardinal.

        • 2
          6

          “Much earlier than most of the present-day Sinhalese and when did yours. “
          I do not know whom this is addressed to.
          Either way does it suggest that Tony’s ‘Kallathoni ancestors set foot in this island’ (or it mine?) set foot here much earlier than present day Sinhalese?
          *
          You can shoot yourself in your foot pretty precisely. Good training I guess.

      • 2
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        Hello SJ,
        Can you please define Kallathoni for me. Some of my Sri Lankan relations jokingly call me a Kallathoni due to my not having any religion (and never had) and my disdain for superstition, Juju men/fortune tellers and snake oil salesmen.

        Best regards

        • 3
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          After the immigration of indentured labour was banned in the island, South Indians immigrated illegally by boat. There was no [powerful coat guard system then, and even smuggling thrives unchecked.
          Such illegal immigrants who arrived by boat were called kallathoni (kalla=thieving/unlawful; thoni= boat).
          LS, life could be boring without a hobby. Try some of the things that you claim to dislike. Likely to be more interesting than most CT comments.

          • 2
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            Thanks SJ for the history.

            I know this is coincidence – in Nigeria I was called “Oyeebo” by Nigerian colleagues. When I asked one of them for a translation he explained that it had 2 meanings “white man” or “thief”. My only answer, with a rueful smile, was “fair enough”,

            Best regards

            • 1
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              Oyebo means the skinless one. Hence its use on White people and even us

              • 1
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                Even people darker than an average Nigerian?
                May sound a compliment to some.

                • 1
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                  A friend called me and asked if Sivasegaram is foolishly taking a shot at my dark complexion, darker than many Nigerians with whom I made my home for over three years, 1977-1980.
                  If so, it is indeed a compliment. Black is beautiful! I am proud to be Black.

        • 4
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          “Kallathoni ” word’s importance is not about having migrated without obtaining permission from Ceylon government. It is used to degrade all Tamils on jobs, social status, culture… and all other aspects. That time Ceylon was deporting Estate Tamils, who were brought by British planters. Original Kallathonies, mainly Malayalee labor workers, mainly to Jaffna to do, degraded jobs like toddy trapping, which was discarded by the local inferior class workers. In reality all these men were employed by lower classes of Jaffna. Kallathonies couldn’t show their faces outside because the Sinhala Polices in North will apprehend them and ensure they are deported back. The word Kallathoni was started in North (very grammatical conjugation, in fairly decent Tamils, if not poetical), to identify these workers from Estate Indian Tamils, brought by British merchants, they too being deported as well. The adjective Kalla denotes that not all who travelled by boats, (like Estate Workers) are inferior as much as these laborers (indentured to lower classes). Those original the Malayali, Tamils workers come to work under the lower-class owners were much way below to an Indian Estate Worker in the central mountains. The word was created somewhere in the North after 1948 and exported to south through the Sinhala Polices who worked in North.
          It is there it underwent the semantic modification and applied on all Tamils, in times like 1956, 1958 riots, explicitly.

    • 8
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      TONY – why not you see the nearest psychiatrist ? That could do lot more good to us and your family.

      • 3
        1

        Believe it or not I walked into the Mormon Church in Knsington, London sometime in 1967 and received a copy of the Mormon Bible.
        Very interesting and even amusing reading, although risky to be taken literally.

        • 1
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          Here is a man (SJ) who wants us to stick to the topic!

      • 1
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        lm
        CT must set up a psychiatrist desk.
        It will make good money, perhaps more than its ads.

        • 1
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          Was it not SJ who advised us to desist from making personal insults?

  • 17
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    Thamizh people have always been secular from ancient times and welcomed and practiced all religions amongst themselves. To be a Thamizh you do not have to practice a specific religion you can practice any religion and be Thamizh. Thamizh is an ethnicity and not an ethno religious group, and within an ethnicity people can practice any religion. It is true that ancestral worshipping, worshipping of Siva, Murugan, Mayon, the mother goddess in various forms, and other village deities like Aynanar and the Cobra(Naga) and malevolent village deities/spirits, especially to appease them and offering sacrifices to them amongst boorish poor rural folk was also done (hence the term Yakka), was more or less the original ancestral religion of the ancient Thamizh, which later evolved into Saivism and folk Hinduism.

    • 17
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      Thamizh from ancient times have welcomed other religions other Saivism, even Vaishnavism another form of Hinduism largely practiced in North India, Jainism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam. According to tradition, St. Thomas, one of the twelve apostles, landed in Malabar Coast, in then ancient Thamizh Chera Nadu now modern-day Kerala in AD 52. There was no Malayalam ethnicity or language 2000 years ago, this ethnicity and language is only a few centuries old and at that time there were all Thamizh.
      https://tamilnadu-favtourism.blogspot.com/2017/09/thiruvithamcode-arappally-st-marys-church-thiruvithamcode-kanyakumari.html
      Legend states, St. Thomas was martyred at St. Thomas’s mound or Parangi Malai in Thamizh in Chennai.
      https://www.tamilnadutourism.tn.gov.in/destinations/santhome-cathedral-and-basilica.
      Therefore, contrary to popular belief Christianity has been with the Thamizh from ancient times but it was more well received in the then western Thamizh Chera lands, nowadays modern Kerala, than in the eastern Thamizh, Chola and Pandian lands, which by that time have become ardently Hindu or Saivite. The modern-day descendants of these ancient St. Thomas Thamizh Christians are the Syrian Christians of Kerala. It is stated that Thomas came to Thamizh Chera country, with the intention of preaching and converting the huge Jewish diaspora who were living there, but hardly found any converts amongst them but many of the local Thamizh, especially from the upper castes were recipient to his message and he found converts amongst them.

      • 15
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        It is stated that Thomas came to Thamizh Chera country, with the intention of preaching and converting the huge Jewish diaspora who were living there, but hardly found any converts amongst them but many of the local Thamizh, especially from the upper castes were recipient to his message and he found converts amongst them. The Chera Thamizh king unlike the Chola king was very tolerant towards this new religion and gave them protection and land. Islam also came to the ancient Thamizh lands, largely not by conquest but through trade, conversion and intermarriage with the Arabs. Jainism and Buddhism also flourished in the Thamizh country and a sizeable number of the Thamizh were Buddhist or Jain until the Cholas, it was more or less destroyed by the Cholas, who persecuted any Thamizh within their realm, who was not a Saivite. It is after the conquest of Rajah Rajah Cholan of the island, that Buddhism died out amongst the Thamizh in the north and east of the island. This is the reason you see many ancient Buddhist shrines in the north and east. These are Thamizh and not Chingkallam as now being falsely portrayed to deliberately settle Chingkallams in these Thamizh areas,

        • 17
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          it is because of Thamizh ironically under the Cholas that Indian Hindu and Buddhist culture spread to Southeast Asia and many of their ancient ruins and even their modern form of writing has evolved from Thamizh Brahmi. It us a Thamizh Pallava prince from Kanchipuram who transmitted Chan Buddhism and Shaolin Kungfu to China and Japan, from traditional ancient Thamizh martial arts. Thamizh is the only ancient classical language where you will find classical literature based on Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Christianity and Islam. Chilapathikaram was written by a Thamizh Chera Jain prince named Ilango Addikal and the heroine of this epic Kannagi.Pattini is now worshipped by Malayali, Thamizh and Chingkallams. Chevaka Chinthamani and Manimakalai are Jain, Buddhist epics. Seera Puranam written by Umaru Pulavar is considered to be one of the great Islamic epics from South Asia. He was of Arab descent but considered himself to be Thamizh and used Thamizh. Thembavani (Tamil: தேம்பாவணி , Meaning:. A Garland of Unfading Honey-Sweet Verses is a Tamil classic poetical work by Veeramamunivar (Costanzo Joseph Beschi an Italian monk ) (Tamil : வீரமாமுனிவர்) on the life of Saint Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus Christ It is divided into thirty-six cantos, containing 3,615 stanzas. Is Christian epic.

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            This is just to state that the Thamizh people and the Thamizh language from ancient times have embraced all major religions and have been secular and tolerant and to be a Thamizh you do not have to be only a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Jain or anything. This sort of religious extremism is a recent phenomenon, Some Hindu extremists stating only good Thamizh is a Hindu Saivite/ American style, Tamil born again Christian evangelicals now stating and preaching if you are Christian, you not Thamizh but only your Christian identity, strangely largely based on western American white Christian identity only matters and you must discard everything Thamizh in you. Thamizh Muslim extremist now stating, if you are Muslim, your Thamizh origin and identity is not important, only your Islamic identity, the world Ulama and the Arabic culture and language and even if you have some Arab in you from a distant male ancestor, this is more important than your more than 95% Thamizh Dravidian ancestry. No wonder Thamizh here are doomed.

            • 2
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              “No wonder Thamizh here are doomed.”
              Wonder why.
              Has not Jaffna Tamil Saiva Vellala bigotry had much to do with it?
              the self-respect movement in Tamilnadu helped to bring Tamilnadu Muslims and Tamils closer. The DMK and the Muslim League of Tamilnadu had partnered in elections in the 1960s.
              Tamilnadu produced Periyar who was among the few great social reformesr of India.
              What did we produce as worthy Tamil leaders after Arunachalam?

              • 1
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                “Tamilnadu produced Periyar who was among the few great social reformesr of India.”

                How can he be great if he called for genocide of Brahmins?

                • 3
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                  “if he called for genocide of Brahmins”‘
                  Did he ask for any genocide ever?
                  You can do with some reading.
                  He was one of the most open minded persons who believed in human equality and social justice.
                  Do not repeat Brahminist lies.
                  There is a Marathi saying “If you see a cobra an a Brahmin at the same time, kill the Brahmin”. That was put on display in one of his party offices, as they thought that it was amusing.
                  But his followers never even raised a hand to strike a Brahmin.

              • 0
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                Why, SJV Chelvanayakam. Not counting SJ of course!

      • 3
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        “Thamizh from ancient times have welcomed other religions “
        It welcome 8000 Jain Tamils to be impaled under a Pallava king.
        It persecuted Tamil Buddhists under Pandya kings.
        It did not spare the Vaishnavaites either. Under the Cholas, Sri Ramanuja fled to what is Andhra to establish his sect of Vaishnavaism.
        Tamils then were as tolerant as some we find on these pages.

        • 3
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          Prof. Sivaseharam is well-read on the religious history of the Tamils but is so bigoted that he drops insults on the caste of Roman Catholics and the pragmatic conversion of Protestants for gain.. Who said reading maketh the man?

          • 2
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            Get one thing right.
            I do not consider any caste as inferior.
            Bigotry is on the part of people who reject others based on caste.
            You may call certain members of the Hindu and Protestant Vellala community who uphold caste values and speak ill of Catholics based on caste.
            The Tamil Catholic is a proud man and does not need to be defended by patronizing remarks by any.
            Tamils and Sinhalese middle classes converted to Protestantism for pragmatic reasons. That is why they are a very much middle class community.
            *
            People still convert for material gain of some form.
            Minister Devanayagam, according to his nephew, converted to Catholicism because he wanted to be in the St Josephs cricket team. He had a good laugh about it, but was proud of the uncle.
            Will you denounce his pragmatism? I will not.
            Such is reality and there is no shame in it, unless one feels bad about switching religion.

        • 3
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          You are confused. You were never able to understand why Devananda took arms to fight with the Sinhala Buddhist Army. Because Deva took arms, it doesn’t tell that Queen Quveni, on the first site of Vijaya, murdered him. Your Mechanical Economics study loaded too much inertia in your thinking. Tamils are always receptive to all cultures. World famous stanza “Yathum Ure Yavarum Kelir ” is written in Tamils. It doesn’t say only Bathiudeen and Siri Ma O are our Killers. After Horoscope Reader Poonkunranar died, Jains falsely accused Thirunavukkarasar as playing a traitor game and insisted their king kill him. They set fire to Sampanthar’s wedding shed and burned alive him, his bride, and the wedding goers. So, 8000 Jain priests were Kaluverrapaddarkal ( A form of cruel death penalty introduced to Tamils by Jains). You sleep with those who murdered your mother, creating lies. But Tamils are receptive to foreign ideas and thinking. You, shamelessly still standing with you bosses, Old Rowdy Royal family that it was on Zero casualty on the Genocide war. But the death toll was 165,000 Tamils. Hopefully one day, you may stop hallucinating badues, before death comes.

    • 2
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      Mr Pandi Kutti
      Sinhala people have not heard the word Thamizh.
      Are these the direct decedents god Hanuman?

      Soma

      • 13
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        Soma.
        “Sinhala people have not heard the word Thamizh”!!???
        OR.
        “Direct decedents god Hanuman”!!???
        Totally irrelevant to the issue!!! This is the sort of OBFUSCIATION that has been going on for Long!!!???
        Deception of the CORE ISSUE IS THE MAIN THEME!!!???
        tHAT SHOWS HOW sincere you are on solving the core issues!!!!

        • 5
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          Mahila,
          ..
          I think he should be unique by his questions 🤔

      • 9
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        The proper way of writing and pronouncing is Thamizh (தமிழ்) and not Tamil go and google and read how it is properly pronounced instead of displaying your anti Thamizh racism ignorance and bias and making a fool of yourself as usual. The word Sinhala itself is derived from the Thamizh word Chingkallam meaning the red or copper coloured land. One of the ancient Thamizh words for the island and has nothing to do with lions raping north Indian damsels or immigrants, a myth that was later coined by the monks who wrote Mahavamsa to deliberately create a different origin for the converted Thamizh Buddhists in the south of the island, who later evolved as Chingkallams. The ancient Dravidian Thamizh or semi Thamizh speaking Dravidian tribes living on the island were either called Chingkallavar (collectively) or Chingkallavan for a male from the classical Thamizh word Alavan or Chingkallathi for a female ( from old Thamizh Alathi) the Eezham Thamizh still use these ancient terms and words. Another ancient Thamizh name for the people of the island was Eezham and the population were called Eezhavar. Hela is Prakritised version of Eezham.

        • 7
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          Whenever Thamizh words get Prakritised you see H or B replacing like you seen in Kannada or Telugu. Eg. Thamizh word. Pen (female) Hen. Paal( milk) Haalu. Pokai( smoke) Hoga. Kal/Kalu( stone) Gal/Gallu. Vasal/Vayil( door/entrance) Bagillu the list goes own. Hope the pea size racist brain, full of hatred for the Thamizh comprehends this. I heard that it was the Chinkallams, especially your family who are the direct descendants of Hanuman. They migrated with part lion part human mythical Prince Vijaya. It was a boatful of animals migrating from India. Hope you are satisfied with these explanations.

          • 2
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            “Whenever Thamizh words get Prakritised “
            Not Sanskritized?
            Kannada enriched itself phonetically by accpting sounds from Sanskrit.

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            Hello Pandi Kutti.
            I have no doubt that peoples from South and North India have migrated to Sri Lanka over the Millennia. I also have no doubt that these immigrants mixed with the indigenous peoples already there. I would love to have been descended from Hanuman – then I would be able to leap from Sri Lanka to the Himalayas for a bit of skiing. Joking aside, can you explain to me (linguistically) how the pronunciation of numbers in Sinhala (and even Hindi) can be derived from Tamil?
            1 ௧ ஒன்று (oṉṟu)
            2 ௨ இரண்டு (iraṇḍu)
            3 ௩ மூன்று (mūṉṟu)

            Sinhala
            1 එක eka
            2 දෙක deka
            3 තුන tuna

            Hindi
            १ (1) एक (ek)
            २ (2) दो (do)
            ३ (3) तीन (tīn)

            Sanskrit
            1 (१) एक (eka))
            2 (२) द्वि (dvi)
            3 (३) त्रि (tri)
            The majority of European languages share the same root as Hindi, Sinhala and Sanskrit.
            Sanskrit, Pali and the Prakrits are also related. If you study the development of Sinhala from North Indian Brahmi the connection becomes obvious. Prof. Robin Coningham from Durham University found examples of Brahmi Script in Anuradhapura that pre-dated Asokan scripts – i.e. before Buddhism arrived in Sri Lanka.
            Best regards

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              “The majority of European languages share the same root as Hindi, Sinhala and Sanskrit.”

              The Indo-Germanic languages are a family of languages spoken or formerly spoken in Europe and SW, central, and S Asia1. Major branches of Indo-European include Anatolian, Indo-Iranian, Armenian, Greek, Slavic, Baltic, Albanian, Germanic, Tocharian, Italic, and Celtic1. English belongs to the Germanic branch of Indo-European2. Other languages in the Germanic branch include German, Dutch, Frisian, Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian2. The Germanic branch has around 500 million native speakers and around 800 million speakers including second language speakers3.

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              Oh, here comes another Chingkalla extremist calling himself” Lanka Scott : (sic) badly wanting to be a wannabe Aryan. Everyone knows that Sanskrit Pali and Parakrit are related and just they found Prakrit Brahmi in Anuradhapura and other parts of the island does not mean this is Chingkallam and Chingkallam descended from North Indian scripts. Most ancient inscriptions found in Sri Lanka are in Prakrit not Chingkallam but many ancient inscriptions in Thamizh Brahmi have also been found.
              By the way this was in 1988 but now recent Keeladi excavations in Thamizh Nadu has discovered that Tamili or Thamizh Brahmi predated Asokan Brahmi or Prakrit or any other Brahmi and it is Tamili or Thamizh Brahmi that gave birth to Brahmi so get your fact correct So called wannabe Aryan ” Lanka Scott”
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFs6CtNLRWA
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_inscriptions_in_Sri_Lanka
              Please read enjoy and cry. Before posting please google and check for latest discoveries and information and not post outdated information. Most Chingkalla racist keep on posting outdated information that has now been rubbished.

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                Hello Pandi Kutti,
                I already pointed out the fraudulent nature of the Keeladi excavations and the non-existence of Thamizh Brahmi in pre-Asokan times. Please supply professional Archaeological Report Links if you can. And please use professional language in your comments and refrain from ad-hominem slurs. I am well aware of the lies that many Sri Lankans use to justify the pogroms against the Tamils. I spent at least 10 years arguing with my Sinhalese relations that Mahinda Rajapakse and Gothaba were war criminals and horu. Now they all agree.
                Best regards

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                  LankaScot,

                  “I spent at least 10 years arguing with my Sinhalese relations that Mahinda Rajapakse and Gothaba were war criminals and horu.”

                  Isn’t Israel doing the same thing? With the full support of EU and USA. UK Israeli ambassador made a good point, how do you co-exist with terrorists. Sri Lanka did it for 26 years, at the expense of 100+ suicide attacks.

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                    Lester,
                    The whole world knows that Israel is inhumane.wE DONT need further arguments.
                    Why do we brazenly compare it to them? Are you normal in your head?

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                      Leela,

                      As I explained elsewhere, there are 1 billion plus Muslims worldwide. In Sri Lanka itself, they are the fastest growing demographic. We saw the Easter Attacks, you can imagine the outcome of a war. That is why I have proposed a federal solution – federal state – for Muslims in the East, to avoid future problems, which are very likely, if no changes are made. When BBS warned about the danger of Sharia, no one listened.

                • 5
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                  You first learn to be polite to us, pretend Scott Chingkalla extremist. You think we are silly and idiots to believe in your so called native Scottish origin.You may have been born in Scotland but definitely not a native Scot but to Chingkalla parents and this shows out in all your comments. Oozing with hatred for Thamizh. You only love SJ as he is Quisling and a self-hating Thamizh. As for calling the Keeladi excavations fraudulent this is the biggest joke. Proves what an anti Thamizh Chaingallam you are indeed. Chingkalla racists and extremists constantly come here and bombard the Thamizh on these sites with unwanted and unrelated questions and challenge them on everything, asking proof, and even when proof is provided state its fraud, but believe in all the lies their Mahavamsa fairy tales and what their fake Archaeological department states. This is a deliberate diversionary ploy adopted by them to discourage the Thamizh from posting the truth or even posting and to veer from the any sensitive topic with regards to Thamizh rights. They all do this, not one but everyone, this means, someone is instructing them in these tactics. If you are an actual native Scot, you would have said Scot or Doric Scot or something similar not Lanka Scot this itself gave the game away.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keezhadi_excavation_site

                • 0
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                  LS
                  Keeladi excavations revealed a civilization much earlier than thought.
                  But the script needs further research.
                  Brahmi script was pre-Asokanl Asoka did not design it, but used it extensively.
                  There really are no two Brahmis. The original set of characters were adapted to suit certain languages. There was a branching of sorts.
                  The current scrips of Indian origin are derivatives of it, and share features that are unique to the sub-continent.
                  The use of diacritical marks and the positioning of each mark relative to the consonant symbol are very consistent in all Indian scripts except Urdu (based on Arabic and Persian).
                  Even Thai, Khmer, old Javanese etc. belong to that family. Even Korean adapted the scheme.
                  Who brought writing to the region and how it developed remain unresolved. But nothing points to a definite Indian origin so far.

            • 6
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              I am discussing how the name Sinhala originated and this has nothing to do with Chingkallam or Hindi numerical. Do not try muddying the waters and deliberately diverge like the way Choma does. Why do all Chingkalla racist and pretend wannabe Scotts want to do this?

            • 7
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              Lanka Scott, Sinhalese may be classified as an Indo-Aryan language as most of its vocabulary is from Pali a form of Prakrit that Lord Budda used, but it does have a very strong Tamil/Dravidian substratum, as most the ancient Sinhalese people evolved not from the North Indian immigrants but from the native Dravidian Naga and Yakka population. largely Yakka who spoke either proper Tamil or the local semi or proto-Tamil dialect Elu. These Prakrit speaking immigrants from Northwest or northeast India were few and they were largely men who came and intermarried into local Tamil Dravidian tribes or married South Indian(Pandian) Tamil women. They never caused the evolution of the Sinhalese language and people, because even the native Sri Lankan Tamils from the north and east show the same percentage of this so called North Indian DNA as the native Sinhalese from the interior, but still speak Tamil, proving that it was not this one time original North Indian immigration that caused the Sinhalese language and people to evolve but the arrival of Buddhism and the large scale conversion of the largely native Dravidian Yakka down south to Buddhism and gradually mixing up their native Tamil dialect with the Pali/Prakrit of Buddhism.

              • 7
                3

                Other than this one-time immigration from North India all other migration to the island from prehistoric to recent times has been from South India. Later over 2000 years of Sinhalese and Tamil people intermarrying, mingling, mixing with each other, Tamil immigrants and invaders from South India gradually settling amongst the Sinhalese and becoming Sinhalese themselves, infused more and more Tamil words, customs, beliefs, forms of worship amongst the Sinhalese. Remember around half of the present-day Sinhalese, especially the ones from northwest, west and southern littorals are all largely descended from post 15th century immigrants from them Tamil South India. Therefore, you can see the amount of Dravidian/Tamil influence from the word go amongst the modern-day Sinhalese, starting from the native Dravidian Naga and Yakka tribes to the present-day Sinhalese Karawa, Salagama, Durawa and most Sinhalese upper Govigamma and Radalas.

                • 8
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                  Yes Sinhalese is classified as Indo Aryan, but still modern-day Sinhalese has around 35% of its vocabulary derived from Tamil or its local variant Elu. Its grammar, syntax, lexicon and alphabet is purely derived from Tamil/Dravidian. Not from Pali. Sanskrit or Prakrit. Sinhalese alphabet looks very similar to Telugu/Kannada or even Malayalam alphabet and remember Tamil Vatteluthu alphabet that is not used it also very rounded and similar. Of course, counting 1-10 in Sinhalese and Hindi may be similar but Sinhalese use the same Tamil words as Tamil for mother father, sister, older brother and many other words that you conveniently omitted.

                  • 2
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                    “Sinhalese has around 35% of its vocabulary derived from Tamil or its local variant Elu.”

                    There are about 900 words in Sinhala that come from Tamil. So according to your logic, Sinhala has only 2571 words. Elu does not come from Tamil. It is classified as an Indo-Aryan language. Elu is the original language spoken by Yakkas and Nagas. When people like Vijaya from Bengal/Orissa/Kalinga came to the island, this language would have been Sanskritized. This also explains why Vedda’s language is closer to Sinhala than Tamil. “The earliest description of the Veddas was written by Rykloff van Goens (1663-1675), director of the Dutch East India Company in Sri Lanka. He writes that the Vedda language is much closer to Sinhalese than Tamil.” In any case, looking at the remains of “Balangoda Man”, people have lived on the island for at least 30K years. There is no way their original tongue was Dravidian.

                    • 8
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                      YOU can say what you like but even Sinhalese historians. linguists and anthropologists agree on this. So go and fly a kite. Elu the ancient native language or dialect of the island, is a simple semi or proto-Tamil Dravidian dialect that was spoken by the ancient Dravidian tribes how lived here. The Vedda never spoke Elu and they had their own language but even here you can see how they were influenced by the ancient Dravidian Tamil presence on the island. They started to worship the Tamil god Lord Murugan in Kathrikamam in deep southeast and the legend that he marries a Vedda lass with a Tamil name Valli Amma. The Vedda in the southern areas later got heavily Sinhalised and their language later became a dialect of Sinhalese, whilst in the east they became Tamilised. Of course, the Veddja dialect by 1605 would have been a form of Sinhalese, as many of them had heavily intermarried into the Sinhalese or got assimilated as Sinhalese in many Kandyan areas. If he had come to the Tamil east, he would have stated the Vedda language is similar to Tamil.

                    • 8
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                      Now coming back to Elu, it was a simple semi/Proto Tamil dialect very close to its proper Tamil mother just like Hela or old Sinhalese than modern Sinhalese that has now been deliberately Sanskritised. Elu+ Pali/Prakrit= Hela or old Sinhalese. The word Eelam or Eezham in proper Tamil is either derived from Elu or the word Elu came from Eezham meaning the language of Eelam. How can the Vedda language be close to Sinhalese when Sinhalese itself is a mixture of three languages. Tamil, Pali and Sanskrit. Out of which only Tamil belongs to the region the other two belong to the plains of North India or to Central Asian steppes. Please use your brain or intelligence before posting.

            • 2
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              LS
              Sinhala owing to coexistence with Tamil in an island, has acquired many features that are not Indo Aryan.
              Its gender system is based on natural gender. Except for English, all major European languages and Indo Aryan languages of India assign a gender to inanimate objects. Sinhala is a remarkable exception.
              Sinhala has two vowel sounds (the short e and short o) that are absent in Indo Aryan languages but present in Dravidian languages.
              The script itself shares a common origin in Grantha with Tamil and Malayalam. Tamil abandoned its own Vattezuththu long ago.
              The book of grammar is modelled after the Tamil book of grammar, Veeracoziyam.
              The word stock of Tamil and Sinhala and Tamil have much in common, partly due to the Sanskrit origin of many of them.

              • 5
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                Hello again SJ,
                All of the replies are very educational, however not a single one answered my question about the numbers. How do you get from Tamil to Sinhala linguistically? The Tamil contributors have in the past in these columns have claimed that Sinhala is derived from Tamil. And by the way the short e and short o are both present in my native Doric – explain that – maybe Doric is also Dravidian😊.
                Best regards

                • 7
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                  Lankan Scott, I did not want to take part in this Hindu Christian Tamil debate started by Prof Hoole as I was fully aware of the sensitivities reactions it might provoke and the replies that would have come, as I belong to a certain community. Most probably SJ would have had a field day with all my comments. You may be a Scott married to Sinhalese lady but in my opinion from all your comments, I have come to the conclusion that you are very biased anti Tamil person. constantly coming here to defend Sinhalese racism myths and lies and challenge every Tamil with silly unrelated questions to deliberately muddy the waters like Doric and Tamil. Most probably the attitude and opinions of your Kandyan Sinhalese wife and her family towards the island’s Tamils seem to be influencing your opinions and attitudes too.

                  • 8
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                    The irony is it is the Kandyan Sinhalese masses who are very closely related to the native Sri Lankan Tamils and their upper castes and aristocracy are largely descended from recent South Indian upper caste/aristocratic immigrants. Largely Tamil but many from Tamil speaking Telugu/Tamil origin Naicker from Tamil Nadu. The Naicker from Tamil Nadu are generally having Telugu origin on the paternal line, as only men as usual largely arrive, and they usually marry into local female population. These Telugu origin Naicker men who arrived when the Vijayanagar empire captured the Tamil country, married into women from the local Tamil upper castes and aristocracy over the generations. Within in few centuries they were only Telugu by name but Tamil in every other sense. Most of them even if they spoke Telugu they spoke, some form of Pidgeon Telugu. Anyway, Telugus and Tamils are basically the same people and languages related. However, noticed that their recent South Indian Tamil immigrant origin many of these Kandyan upper castes and aristocrats, like many of the recently Sinhalised post 15Th century immigrants from South India, are the biggest anti Tamils and supporters of Sinhalese Aryan theory, that seems to have rubbed onto you.

                    • 7
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                      Their light skin has nothing to do with Aryans but was largely to their upper caste South Indian Tamil origin, as many Tamil upper castes tend to have more of the Indus Valley Dravidian DNA and less of later Ancient ancestral South Indian DNA that took place, and they also show more traces of the Steppe/Ancestral North Indian DNA. Compared to the lower castes. The light skin of many Kandyan is also due to European colonials and this is a fact. Nothing to be proud of as it largely came from the wrong side of the bed. Go and visit the Kandyan Purana villages around Sigiriya etc. and see how they look? The DNA of these people are the same as the Sri Lankan Tamils.

                • 7
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                  Now since you claim to be a Scot can you explain why Scottish/Doric a form of English or commonly called Scottish now classified as a sister language of English and the language that was used by many native Scottish writers and poets is the language of the Scottish Lowlands and mid northern Scots or mid Highlands/Northeast Scotland, whilst Scottish Gaelic is largely the mother tongue of the Highlands? Doric came from Greek and is means rustic rough from Doric Greek spoken in Sparta because Doric dialect of Scottish is very rough and rustic, just listen to Glaswegian. This is the reason the Kilt wearing Gaelic speaking Highland Scots contemptuously call the low land Scots as “Sassenach”. Means a foreigner or outsider and English person. You must be very familiar with this term. The reason is the Celtic population in these regions were highly influenced by arrival of Germanic Anglo-Saxon tribes, sometimes by intermarriage in the border areas and rule and gradually language replacement took place.

                  • 7
                    1

                    It is the same in southern Sri Lanka as the largely more boorish Dravidian Yakka tribes living there, who only spoke a simple semi or proto-Tamil dialect called Elu, unlike the more worldly and sophisticated Naga who largely lived in the north and east who spoke proper Tamil by this time, could not withstand the onslaught of the Pali/Prakrit words and vocabulary that arrived with the Buddhist religion , that they converted to on a mass scale, unlike the north and east and gradually started to mix and replace their native Tamil words and vocabulary with the Pali, Sanskrit or Prakrit of Buddhism and a new language evolved. This is the reason Sinhalese may be classified as Indo Aryan, but it still has a very strong Tamil substratum due to this and later Tamil migrations strengthened this substratum. This is called language replacement. it has happened in many lands. A new religion or an invasion can create this.

                    • 7
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                      You can see this in Finland and Hungary. They speak Altaic languages, but the population are basically Nordic or Central European or even in Northen India, Pakistan, language replacement took place. Most of the Indo-Aryan speakers here originally spoke Dravidian languages or dialects. This is the reason a sentence formed in Hindi, Bengali, Punjabi or Sinhalese is formed the same way as Tamil, not English or even Farsi. Hope you have the intelligence to understand this. Hope these links satisfy your thirst for the truth and knowledge if this is what you are really seeking.
                      https://lankamithra.wordpress.com/2014/10/26/sinhalese-the-language-brought-up-and-nursed-by-tamil/
                      https://www.dailymirror.lk/article/Tamils-have-valid-claim-for-homeland-Prof-Pathmanathan-126359.html

                    • 2
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                      “Most of the Indo-Aryan speakers here originally spoke Dravidian languages or dialects.”

                      You claim to know better than linguists, people who study languages on a professional level? Indo-Aryan language implies the root language is Sanskrit, not any Dravidian language.

                      “relating to or denoting the group of Indo-European languages comprising Sanskrit and the modern Indian languages that are its descendants.”

                      Of course there are borrowed words, that is a different story. No language is pure. In Korea, the father is called “appa.” I saw some idiot on YT make the claim that Koreans intermarried with Tamils.

                  • 2
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                    Hello Siva Sankaran Sharma,
                    Glaswegians do not speak Doric. It is mainly spoken in the North East of Scotland. Even in Dundee (60 miles distant) they barely understand Doric speakers. The version of Scots that you are referring to is Lallans. Both Robert Burns (of Kincardineshire descent) and Robert Louis Stevenson used and spoke Lallans. I lived for some time in Limburgh (Netherlands) and could understand some of their language (Limburghs) and also Platt (Low German), spoken in the border near Limburgh. Weavers from this area settled in Aberdeen in medieval times and influenced the Aberdonian Doric. I descend from the Picts (on my mother’s side) and the Bretons on my father’s side. The Picts probably spoke a language similar to Welsh. Scot’s Gaelic is very similar to Irish Gaelic (which is probably older than Scot’s Gaelic) as they share a common ancestry.
                    The pronunciation of numbers 1 to 10 in Doric and Limburghs is almost identical. My original point was that how numbers are pronounced (written) can show the history and influences that shaped them. I cannot see any descent of Sinhalese numbers from Tamil – which is why I asked the question.

                    Best regards

                    • 4
                      1

                      It does not matter the low land Scots speak various forms of English very rough and crude that is now called Scottish now recognized as sister language of English but soon dying out as now most of them are now reverting to proper English, whilst in the highlands it is Scotting Gaelic and some very northern islands they may still speak dialects of old Norse due to Viking settlement. Now explain why this language shift occurred in the Scottish Lowlands. Even now the so-called Gaelic belt is shrinking and more and more there are also switching to English. This is called language replacement. You are just nit picking but your anti Tamil bias and hatred is oozing out. Never met a Scott with so much of hatred for Tamils unless you really are not a Scott but like many suggest a Sinhalese born in Scotland now pretending to be native Scottish.

                • 4
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                  LS
                  There is no evidence for that claim.
                  Many languages have survived without a writing system for centuries. Sanskrit is one. Sinhala is another.
                  Text in any language appears subject to various historical circumstances.
                  With Buddhism dominated by Pali and then Sanskrit scholarly writing was in those languages. the same was true of many European languages when Latin dominated the Christian faith. It was also the language of the royal court.
                  Sinhala absorbed many words from Pali, Sanskrit and Tamil, but it had its own way of Sinhalizing them. Even Pali did that to Sanskrt words that entered it.
                  As for numerals, the numerals you have identified are post-Grantha for Tamil . What was in Sinhala has been abandoned perhaps earlier than in Tamil.
                  Hindi etc, cling on to the traditional numerals. so do Telugu and Kannada for some social purposes.
                  Tamil has ditched its numerals in mid 20th Century except for a few ritualistic purposes.
                  I am sure that you will find the old Sinhala numerals if you search for them.
                  The absence of short e and short o I referred to is the absence of letters to indicate them as well as recognition of them as distinct phonemes.
                  European scripts do not have separate letters to distinguish between the short and long versions of a e i o & u. Strangely Russian has letters for pairs like a and ya, e and ye etc.

                • 2
                  1

                  LankanScot,
                  .
                  I’m personally not conversant enough on genetic analyses to fully understand all the nitty gritty of the study, but being a very recent one, it might shed some light on to the subject at hand.
                  .
                  “Reconstructing the population history of the Sinhalese, the major ethnic group in Śrī Laṅkā”: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10514440/#:~:text=Some%20studies%20have%20shown%20that,connection%20with%20South%20Indian%20populations.&text=Analysis%20based%20on%20classical%20markers,populations%20than%20with%20the%20Bengalis.
                  .
                  Cheers!

                  • 5
                    0

                    Hello Ruchira,
                    Thanks for the link – the quote below is interesting, however it only covers mtDNA (maternal). David Reich and others are investigating ancient DNA and will likely come up with more information re Human Diversity
                    “This high level of West Eurasian ancestry is consistent across all the major Śrī Laṅkān groups except Indian Tamils, who are known to represent a well-documented recent migration during the British colonial period41 and the Moors, who overwhelmingly exhibit South Asian ancestry. This discrepancy can be explained by independent West Eurasian contribution to Śrī Laṅkā, likely by a sea route and putative migration from Northwest India”
                    There are other recent DNA (but only mtDNA) reports that give a more detailed comparison between North Indian and Sri Lankan peoples. One of these showed that my wife’s mtDNA was closest to the Tharu tribe in Uttar Pradesh

                    Best regards

                    • 2
                      1

                      LankaScot,
                      .
                      The quote you have pulled out was precisely the reason I shared the study.
                      .
                      Claiming the Sinhalese are purely descending from South Indian Tamils may be as equally wrong as that they are purely of Aryan origin.
                      .
                      The same may be true for the language Sinhalese.
                      .
                      David Reich and others work may perhaps be something to look forward to then.
                      .
                      Have a great weekend.

                    • 2
                      0

                      LS,
                      Interesting. I think your wife is Sinhalese. So everything I’ve read so far proves that Tamil DNA in Sri Lanka is closer to Sinhalese DNA, no matter who is against it. This means that the progenitors may have had the same common ancestor. Stay on the origin, we must not go further. Even today, race, religion and caste are still hanging on only among the Sinhalese elders. I guess the same applies to Tamil Sri Lankans. If a Sinhalese patient is admitted to a hospital with a lack of blood, and the donor’s blood type is a perfect match to save the life, will they still care about race and origin? No.
                      https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sinhalese-sri-lankan-tamils-share-striking-genetic-similarity-study-finds-4348236

                • 3
                  0

                  No time to respond in detail, LankaScot, but the language that is closest to Sinhala is Dhivehi.
                  .
                  I taught English for three full years in Male, Maldives, but didn’t try to combine that with learning the somewhat “Arabised” Sinhala that is Dhivehi. I needed to come to terms with Dhivehi when shopping but learnt to comprehend, but not to use.
                  .
                  I think that I have no aptitude for learning languages. My close to four years in Oman were spent mostly in villages where Arabic was needed for survival. I tried. but failed to learn it. The English that I was expected to teach was so basic that it was the teaching methodology that was important.
                  .
                  Panini Edirisinhe

                  • 2
                    0

                    Hello SM
                    Much like you I spent time in the Middle East (Saudi and Qatar). I managed to learn enough Arabic to get by and found the pronunciation much like Scots – e.g.Sabah al khair (good morning) was very difficult for my English colleagues to pronounce properly. I can follow conversations in Sinhala if they speak slowly and I am trying to learn a little Tamil, but my pronunciation is terrible. Regarding teaching English – many of the TEFL proponents discourage the use of native languages whilst teaching. I personally think that a basic understanding and occasional use in the classroom is a necessity.
                    Best regards

            • 1
              10

              LankaScot,

              “I would love to have been descended from Hanuman.”

              There is no mention of a Tamil kingdom in “Ramayana”, although Sinhalese kings are mentioned several times in “Mahabharata.” Ramayana is more interesting, as it deals specifically with the north of the island. The “native” inhabitants are simply mentioned as “yakkas” and rakshahas, similar to Mahavamsa. There is no evidence these “yakkas” spoke Tamil.

              • 11
                1

                Lester

                Well I am happy you are still loitering in this space.

                “There is no evidence these “yakkas” spoke Tamil.”

                Nor is there any evidence Yakkas spoke Sinhala.

                “There is no mention of a Tamil kingdom in “Ramayana”,

                Nor any mention of Sinhal/Buddhist Kingdom.

                “… although Sinhalese kings are mentioned several times in “Mahabharata.”

                Please provide us with reference.
                Who write that particular “Mahabharata.”, HLD Mahindapala, Udaya Gammanpila, Champika Ranawake, Darshanie Ratnawalli, …. Gnanasara, Wimal, …….?

                What are you trying to prove?
                Are you trying to say you are not a Sinhala/Buddhist and not related to Hanuman, Hidimb, Bakasura, Jatasura, Kirimira, Maniman, Alambusha, …. ?

              • 4
                3

                “Sinhalese kings are mentioned several times in “Mahabharata””
                Like Vijaya for example I guess.
                “There is no evidence these “yakkas” spoke Tamil.”
                Nor is there evidence that Lester spoke Tamil.

                • 1
                  5

                  “Nor is there evidence that Lester spoke Tamil.”

                  But maybe Telugu, who are not purely Dravidian anyway, which could explain the “South Indian” component of Sinhalese genetic tests. Of course, Rohan Sankaran claims that Telugu also comes from Tamil, so the logic becomes circular.

                  • 3
                    0

                    I was only commenting on the quality of evidence sought.
                    *
                    Who is whose ancestor is the least of my concerns.
                    The only ancestors that one can be certain are maternal great great great great great…grandmothers. Even there, there is a problem. Someone may be an adapted child. Also there are not much by way of records of female family names.

                    • 3
                      0

                      Yes, as Telemachus quips in “The Odyssey” nobody can be certain about the father. However, I wish there were fewer insults being thrown around.

            • 5
              1

              Sorry you misunderstood.
              All languages took one, two, three from Tamil. Tamil is the only language that can work on the ten base numbers, up to infinity.
              Sanskrit missed Tamil and other Indo-Aryan languages only used Tamil for their first number one. Tamil says ondru, English one, French Un …
              But it is only Sanskrit taken from Pali, the Ek. Others are simply your misunderstanding.
              Two born out of Itandu,
              Three came out of Moonruu,
              Four came out of Naanku,
              Five came out of Anchu. …………………..
              Eight came out of Eddu,
              Nine came out of Onbathu……The only Langue ever had the first one two three is Tamil and unbelievably it was figured to be in 10 bases, on the first shot, unimaginable……
              Your English doesn’t have 10+1 but eleven, no 10+2 but twelve,
              Others are teens, in other words, cart before the horse conjugation. Don’t you think it should have been teen third, teen forth…..?
              Sinhalese uses Prakrit as a learned language. That is a double whammy joke. Who in the world makes their learned language that is somebody else’s spoken language? That is a serious damage Buddhism did to Sinhalese. Later Buddhism left out Prakrit and took over Sanskrit, Nepalese, Chinese, but the Sinhalese stuck. 1/3 of their liturgical works come from spoken Pali. Have you seen some carts that have tire wheels, but donkeys pull?

            • 3
              0

              Dear LS,
              .
              https://www.jstor.org/stable/42928590
              .
              Yes, the truth is there are some revelations that have left even the world’s most expert archaeologists speechless.
              So are the Boston researchers’ theories of human evolution yet today. What Homo sapiens don’t know is more than what they know. With the lack of information, our life on this planet guides us.

              I further believe, black is what is not black. It is what we see within the limits of our visual range.
              The limited discoveries that the entire human race has made so far are not enough to draw conclusions about many things in our lives today: this is valid for medicine, technology, engineering of various natures, science and biology.
              :

              • 0
                1

                Hello LM,
                You previously quoted the NDTV article regarding Sinhalese and Sri Lanka Tamil DNA. As I pointed out before I am sure that Tamils and Sinhalese have been in Sri Lanka for at least 2000 or so years. During this time it is inevitable that interbreeding took place. What is not explained in the original report is why both Sri Lanka Tamils and Sinhalese have West European DNA.
                A direct quote from the article regarding the source of the Sinhalese DNA says –
                “There are two schools of thought; one says it is North-West India, whereas the other says West Bengal. This study confirmed North-West India as their homeland,” Niraj Rai, another DNA scientist from the Ancient DNA Lab at the Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeosciences, said.”
                The full report can be downloaded from https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(23)01874-6

                Best regards

      • 11
        1

        soma

        Today I read somewhere that a heroin smuggler from Dubai has sent money to build shrines in Sri Lanka. Is that how Vihare building project in North East being financed by Sinhala/Buddhist land grabbers?

        Do you play a key role in this project?

        I wonder why some of the Saffronistas are too keen on building Vihares where no Buddhist live. I now understand Saffronistas too have some cash incentive to continue building Sinhala/Buddhist temples.

      • 3
        4

        Interesting.
        The huge load of Tamil or Tamil-based words in Sinhala must have been smuggled in on the sly!

        • 6
          0

          I hope Sri Lankan Sinhala experts will have to answer this question. I’m not a historian, and I don’t know anyone in my circle who is. If the Tamils did not live in our country for many ages, how can some similar Tamil words be included in the Sinhala language?
          These sort of provocations become their day today thrills. They see the evidence, nevertherless, there are a large number of sinhala-buddhists that are forced to believe that BUDDHA was born in SRILANKA.
          I am speechless. That Australia monk criticises lanken thinking in public.
          .
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk6GJ499J5k

  • 3
    5

    Thank you, Professor Jeevan Hoole, for letting us know the sort of problems that you face in the predominantly Tamil areas.
    .
    You know more about the workings of the Anglican Church than I do.
    .
    However, just to let you know, it is election time for the Board of Governors of the S. Thomas’ Colleges. Starting now, the process has to be over by the 31st of March – before the First of April.
    .
    There are 15 on the Board, five of them have to be elected. Overall, 80% had to be Anglican. That was according to this:
    .
    http://www.stcg62group.org/PDF/College/04_STC_Board_of_Governors_Ordinance.pdf
    .
    That is an Ordinance that can be changed only by an Act of Parliament.
    .
    But these Rules have been drawn up, in keeping with the Ordinance:
    .
    http://www.stcg62group.org/PDF/College/05_Rules_of_STC_Board_of_Governors.pdf
    .
    The Bishop of Colombo is the Ex-Officio Chairman (and it so happens that he is the first Old Boy of S. Thomas’ to hold that office).
    .
    Nine others are appointed in various ways, and five are elected. Of the five, three are elected to represent the interests of the school in Mt Lavinia. There has never been a problem with those appointments.

    .

  • 5
    2

    Part 1
    As always Prof Hoole doesn’t mince words.

    Reference to his mentioning St John’s Church demanding USD 150 for burial of ashes perhaps some clarification is needed to demonstrate the utter impotence of Archbishop Rodrigo and the lethargy of Vicar Jebachelvam and his team of Wardens in taking corrective action. The shocking aspect is that despite being brought to the attention of Bishop R on 20 December as at today 4th January it remains unresolved.

    The family of a loved one who died overseas is being asked by the Vicar to pay US$ 150 to inter her ashes in a plot the family already owns purely because the price list the Vicar and wardens have established has a 3 tier pricing system for “Plots owned by families for burial” consisting of
    church parishioners Rs 5,000,
    Non-worshippers Rs 10,000 and
    Parishioners living outside Northern Province & non-residents of Sri Lanka US $150.

    Neither the Vicar nor Bishop Rodrigo have explained why it costs four fold to bury the ashes of someone who died overseas. What additional work is needed for interring ashes of a church member who died overseas vis-a-vis burying ashes of a member who died in jaffna??

  • 5
    2

    Part 2
    Nor have either of them given guidance on how to determine the residency of the ashes.

    After numerous exchanges with Bishop Rodrigo and his inability to take a decision, the family has now requested the matter be referred to the Standing Committee hoping they consist of persons with common sense having the ability to make decisions.

    Upon making this request on 31 Dec Bishop Rodrigo replied, “I have asked the Vicar to convey a reasonable rate that Vicar and the Wardens decide which will be the rates that everyone wanting to use the graveyard will pay in the future”.

    Four days have passed and the family has heard nothing on the new rates. One can imagine the anguish it is causing the family at their inability to give their mother a respectful closure. More importantly they cannot remain in Sri Lanka indefinitely until Bishop R wakes up from his slumber and orders the Vicar.

    Sad, sad situation. little wonder why the congregation of the Anglican church in SL is dwindling. How can anyone respect such persons ??

    • 5
      4

      They are either lying or crazy. wioth no thjought to your grandmother who was cremated abroad and whose soul is not given a Christian graveyard to rest in until Jesus returns.

      The Standing Committee, when I wan on it, used to meet on the 3rd Tuesday of a month as I recall. So will they keep you waiting till then? Would you have to wait another month for confirmed minutes?

      I know that Hindus (the unbaptised) and suicides are buried at both St. James’ Nallur and St. John’s Chundikuli against the rules of the Church. I believe Fr. Jebachelvan has officiated at such illegal burials. These burial services I was told then were done with a clearance from the Bishop of Colombo over the telephone.

      Did the Bishop call for a Standing Committee meeting for these?

      Indeed at a recent service in Church for a deceased Hindu, Fr. Jebachelvan presided when the CSI Bishop prayed “May his soul attain Saanthi.” That was a violation of the Anglican faith and order.

      These violate the first Rubric of the Order of Service for brial which reads (the letter ſ in 1662 standing for the letter s) “Here is to be noted, That the Office enſuing is not to be uſed for any that die unbaptized, or excommunicate, or have laid violent hands upon themſelves.” That is, no burial service for the unbaptized and suicides.

      • 16
        1

        What has all this got to do with the common Tamil candidate. It looks like you have some issue with Saivite/Hindu Tamils and constantly keep on attacking them. You accuse others of being fundamentalist, but you are one yourself. Tamil culture and history has always been essentially Saivite/Hindu from the time of Indus valley civilization, and it is this religion that had nurtured the Tamil language and people to produce its rich poetry, culture, dance forms, arts and way of life and made Tamil a rich classical language. All ancient Tamil kingdoms have always been Hindu and it these ancient Tamil Hindu kingdoms like the Cholas and Pallavans who created empires. Yes, other religions are there amongst Tamils, but they only played a minor role in the history of the Tamils and hardly influenced the essential Tamil culture and way of life. This is the truth. Please recognize this and your crusade against Hindu Tamils. Most Tamil Christians are not like this.

        • 4
          14

          Wow!
          “Tamil culture and history has always been essentially Saivite/Hindu from the time of Indus valley civilization, and it is this religion that had nurtured the Tamil language and people to produce its rich poetry, culture, dance forms, arts and way of life and made Tamil a rich classical language.”
          Is this not fundamentalism?
          I do not want to be diverted into a discussion on your contrarian claims of the contributiions of Saivism to Tamil culture, and whether Tamil culture is Saivite and Hindu.
          That is what Wigneswaran and Yogeswaran claim, making them your soul-mates.
          What Chivas Regal raises is constitutional governance of the church in giving equal burial rights to all members, and is relevant to the constitutional governance of the country and the equal rights of all communities to live here and be elected to office.
          The church seems to offer different classes of membership for burial, with the right to burial of a member defined arbitrarily by the Bishop waiving constiutional rules in a phone-call.
          Constitutional governanance means changing the constituion first if the Bishop thinks the Constituion is wrong. It can never be selective waiving of the Constitution’s provisions for those with influence.

          • 10
            1

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_culture

            Please read and I rest my case. Your hatred for your own ancestral very recent Hindu religion and culture seems to blind you. Who were your grandparents and great grandparents? What you are arguing about is very irrelevant in my opinion with the issue of a common Tamil candidate. You are unnecessarily bringing the issue of religion amongst Tamils at this important junction and dividing them, deliberately or unwittingly. Amongst Sri Lankan Tamils the Hindus and Christians are full integrated and most of them intermarry and arrange marriages with each other and most Tamil Hindu families including mine have Christian relatives and vice versa. Already the Muslim Tamils have become estranged from the rest of the Tamils and been brain washed to believe they are some sort of Arabs.

            • 9
              1

              Now there are dark forces now trying to deliberately create a schism amongst Hindu and Christian Tamils, using extremist Hindu and Christians. Whilst doing the opposite amongst the Sinhalese. The policy is to divide the Tamils by religion, region, origin and caste, split them into very small identities and set one against the other, rule them and ultimately destroy them. Remember the late SJV Chellanayagam was a Christian and was respected by all Tamils and still fondly called the father of Tamils. He bravely fought for Tamil rights when many powerful Hindu Tamil leaders were betraying them. Sumathiran is a Christian and so are many other Tamil leaders. You constantly come here and denigrate Hindu leaders and revivalists like Arumuga Navalar who saved Saivism amongst the Eelam Tamils and revived in the 1800s, when it was almost disappearing. Yes, he was casteist and had other issues but who does not. But against all odds he achieved something and saved the ancient Hindu religion from disappearing on the island and made the Eelam Tamils a predominantly Saivite community again, so you have an axe to grind with him, as you are religious fundamentalist.

              • 2
                0

                Thanks Rohan25,
                .
                You’ve said this many days ago; I’m sure that it is unwittingly.
                .
                And, I’m sure that Jeevan Hoole is very sincere and honest.
                .
                However, what is now important is that we face the crucial elections that must be held in 2024. Getting them held, and who finally gets elected as President, and to the Parliament ought to take precedence over all else.
                .
                If it is to be a valid election, I can’t “tell” you “what to do.”
                .
                But I can tell you what what I’d like to see happening. For the Presidential Election, let votes be cast in such a way that Tamils establish their identity – i.e. vote for a Tamil as number One. Vote number 2/3 for AKD. Can anybody think of a way in which the other vote can be cast?
                .
                For the Parliamentary Elections, the individuals you send is crucial, although you have to start off by voting for a Party. Vote so that we end up with a Parliament of MPs who work to solve the problems facing our country as a whole.
                .
                Panini Edirisinhe of Bandarawela

                • 0
                  0

                  Please note that although I have submitted this comment below this particular comment by Rohan25, it may have been composed looking at some other comment by him.
                  .
                  That’s the way Colombo Telegraph works. If what you typed in hasn’t yet been submitted in that place, it moves to the next place where you have clicked on REPLY.
                  .
                  That’s how it happens to work; I’m not saying anything about it being satisfactory or the reverse.
                  .
                  Panini

            • 1
              3

              Rohan 25: “What you are arguing about is very irrelevant in my opinion with the issue of a common Tamil candidate. You are unnecessarily bringing the issue of religion amongst Tamils at this important junction and dividing them, deliberately or unwittingly. Amongst Sri Lankan Tamils the Hindus and Christians are full integrated and most of them intermarry and arrange marriages with each other and most Tamil Hindu families including mine have Christian relatives and vice versa.”
              YOU ARE WRONG!
              When Yogeswaran says only Savite Tamils are Tamil and the rest of us are “Tamil-speakers” andmhemhas applied to be the leader of ITAK/FP on the closing date, religion is very relevant.
              No, most Chritins will not marry non-Christians. It is taboo in the church. Your family must be peculiar

            • 0
              1

              Many say that a Tamil has to be Saivite to be Tamil. As a non-Saivite Tamil if I contest that claim, is it dividing the Tamils? That is how you want us to shut-up!
              You and Yogeswaran make good company. Even SJ by suggesting that Protestants converted for gain and are less faithful to their faith.

        • 0
          5

          Surely, R25, you must have heard of the Saivar and Samanar having debates and the victor massacring the loser. One of the largest genocides (unconfirmed because we only have poems recording it) in the history of mankind was by the Saiva paandiyan massacring some 10000 Samanar in the most cruel of ways.
          Not particularly rich poetry if you pay attention to the lyrics in thevarams, huh!

          • 5
            1

            Yes, during the Chola’s were ardently Saivite and massacred and wiped out all non-Saivite religion amongst the Tamils, even the Vaishnavites. Samanar( Jains) Buddhists. It was during their era Tamil Buddhism was wiped out, especially in Sri Lanka. The religious language Buddhism shifted to Tamil in the 8th. The linguistic change from Pali to Tamil, loosened the links between Tamil and Sinhala Buddhists in Sri Lanka. When Saivism and Bhakti movement ascended to an unassailable position in Tamil Nadu under the Cholas (300 BC to 1279 AD), pushed Buddhism and Jainism( Samanar) to the periphery there. PK has already mentioned this. I am discussing of what is happening now.

            • 2
              5

              Buddism saw its downfall much earlier with the debate in the Pandys court with Manivaasakar.
              Rajarajan looted Saivaite temples as well to serve his own glory through the Periya Kovil.
              Where do the Cholas fit into the Bakthi movement which thrived when the Pallavas dominated the South. That thoroughly weakened the Jains, 8000 of whom were impaled, thanks to TG Sampanthar.
              Is it not in Suntharamoorthi Naayanaar’s time that Cholas began sponsoring Saivaism in a big way? But there was virtually no Bakthi Movement by then.
              Buddhism survived a little longer until after Manivasakar in Pandiya country..
              Are there records of persecution of Buddhism by Cholas?

          • 1
            0

            “paandiyan massacring some 10000 Samanar”
            You got it wrong. Tt was 8000 by impaling under the Pallava ruler not Pandiya.
            It was part of the deal for the contest.
            That is the love that religions practice.

            • 2
              0

              Sorry.
              I stand corrected.
              It was a Pandiya king who did it.

        • 3
          3

          There goes! Narrowing Tamil language’s definition to Saivaism only.

          Current Research shows the total absurdity of this claim.
          E.g. Ginnette Ishtmasu in The making of Tamil Shaiva Siddhānta

          From the late 19th century, Tamil nationalists, as represented by the Self-Respect Movement, promoted Shaiva Siddhānta as the ‘original’ Tamil religion in an imagined ancient past, where social equality and harmony reigned… Claims that Shaiva Siddhānta is specifically Tamil and non- Brahman in origin or essence continue to inform debates concerning Dravidian identity, the rights of Brahman temple priests, and the language of Hindu worship. .. Research shows that Shaiva Siddhānta first developed in central India among male Brahman spiritual lineages; a distinct regional variation developed later in the south, with non-Brahman Vēlāla leaders and authoritative writings in Tamil. However, traditional narratives of the lives of early non-Brahman gurus highlight the difficulty of transferring authority from Brahmans to Vēlālas, who are classified as Shūdras.

          With such ambivalence even in determining Saivism’s definition or origins, and its spread to the Tamil areas until post 6th century AD, claiming the same antiquity as the Tamil language for Saivism is deliberate hoodwink. Political and attempted caste upgrade

          Very divisive when we are weak.

          • 2
            2

            “Tamil nationalists, as represented by the Self-Respect Movement,”
            Was not the movement rather atheistic in outlook under the leadership of Periyaar who also initiated an intelligence movement (pakuththarivu iyakkam)?

            • 3
              0

              You may have in mind pure-Tamilists like Maraimalai and KiAaPe Visuvanatham.

      • 2
        3

        correctly said jaffna man….i can name the hindu burials at st. james nallur & st. johns chundikuli. Most of them were done by Rev.jebachelvan & the present archdecon & the previous archdecon are aware of this. where was the standing committe then?? if unfit & uneducated people grab offices like wardens of churches this is what happens. we just witnessed what happened at the urumbirai anglican church. we know what happened on the encroachment of st.james church graveyard & how these uneducated wardens responded

    • 3
      2

      Even a liar needs not mince words when he knows what he wants.

    • 3
      3

      very pathetic. i dont understand why if that family is holding a family grave ( means they have bought that ploy of land) the church is demanding $150? which is above the rate the locals pay? what kind of taxation is this?? the anglican church seems very pathetic. With unsuitable , uneducated, cheaters holding offices like the archdecons , the priests, wardens, the principals & so on…favouritism is the only qualification one needs to hold office in an anglican institution.

      • 1
        0

        Actually if you lack the required qualifications, the Bishop will deem you qualified becuse you will obey and help him and the chuirch in their wrongdoings. There are many examples in all appointments by the Bishop. Good people get elected and they must be countered by the Bishop through his nominations. Just look at all the appointees.

      • 1
        0

        For the record 3 plots side-by-side ALREADY PAID IN FULL belongs to the family for decades.

        Neither the Vicar nor the supposedly better educated Archbishop has explained why a 3 tier pricing system with those who died overseas being asked to pay 12 times more and that too in foreign currency ! In what way is an urn with ashes of a loved one dying overseas more expensive to bury than someone dying in Jaffna.

        Below is the msg the family received from Vicar at the crack on dawn

        [06/01, 4:58 am] Rev Jebachelvan:
        Dear …
        I refer to your communication regarding the interment of your mother’s ashes,

        In consultation with the bishop and the archdeacon, we have decided to revise the current rates for burial at our church. This will be done at the next wardens’ meeting.

        In the meantime it has been decided to inform you that you could pay an amount that you feel reasonable, to have your mother’s ashes buried in the plot owned by your family.

        Thank you.(end quote)

        More in Part 2

  • 2
    6

    Tamil speaking people in Sinhala majority provinces wil vote for a Sinhala candidate or the Tamil candidate?
    Any guess?

    Soma

    • 1
      1

      Depends. From the Western province, may be the Common candidate or someone like Mano Ganeshan. This will work only if the parties agreeing on a Common Tamil cndidate do not allow others to contest under their own party.
      From the hill -ountry, may be as Jeevan Thondaman directs.

    • 2
      0

      S
      I think that it could go 50-50 the way things are now. One never knows what will be when candidates are announced.

    • 5
      2

      soma

      “Any guess?”

      I guess they too are completely corrupt like you lot therefore they would vote for the candidate who serves in their personal interest.

      Why do you think they are different from you lot and vote in the country’s interest? By the way why do you think Tamil/Sinhala voters have choice of candidates?

      Do you have information on Godfathers being arrested during ” Yukthiya” raids on Drug dealers, peddlers, …. cartels, crew, …… and of course their political protectors in Colombo?

      • 4
        0

        Dear NV,
        how did you start your new year ? I think I sent you my greetings to you earlier.
        .
        Btw, Jayasumana, sinhala racist, behaves as if he was not involved in making crucial decisions regarding the purchase of anti-covid vaccines.

        A large number of them were recently destroyed because they had been ordered in excess of the country’s requirements. They say we are losing millions of dollars.

        • 3
          1

          leelagemalli

          I thanked you for your new year wishes about few days ago. Those who have been in charge of this island have gone mad.

          As it is people cannot do much.

          Sri Lanka has been invited to serve US military in middle east.
          If a decision is made Ranil should put all those brave corrupt (racist) nationalists in the first naval ship. Some names come to my mind, Svandra, Kamala, Karanagoda, Gota, Fonseka, ………. Wimal, Champika, Dinesh, ……. Douglas, Tilvin, Herath, Bimal, Sunil, ….. Udaya, …

    • 6
      0

      Soma,
      .
      Thondaman’s politics has repeatedly answered your question. That is why Mahinda Rajapaksa, the beast of the nation, betrayed the nation for the risk of Covid, but made the funeral of the late Minister Thondaman a state event. This is before the 2020 general election. Mahinda Rajapaksa will even sell his wife if they want to distort the “deceptive mentality”.

      Fortunately, some sections have come to grips with it today, even though many people in the South still believe they would die for Mahinda Rajapaksa’s moustache.

      Please watch the video below:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xw49VOhLbA

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67JBaQnpXPc

      A significant portion of our population repeatedly falls for the easy tricks of the fraudsters.

      • 2
        0

        LM,
        Many thanks for that entertainment series!!!??? Where was this filmed?? Sri Lanka???

        • 2
          0

          Mahila Mahaththayo, that is RAJAPAKSHE ruined srilanka where you continue your day today life. I have not lived in that country for the last 3 years. But I am well concerned of the issues of the very people.

          • 1
            0

            apologies for errors, it should for the last 3 decades.

  • 0
    3

    Weren’t Tamils of Sri Lanka largely Buddhists for a period of time before Saivam and then Christianity arrived in the island. It may be a good idea then for Tamils to adopt and own the great philosophy of Gautama and give away the silly rituals and poojas to the Sinhalese. That could work as a juicy second phase of Tamil revenge (the first being imported South Indian soaps that are on TV with Sinhala sub titles)!

    • 4
      0

      ” a period of time before Saivam and then Christianity arrived in the island.”
      Christianity here is post European arrival.
      Important Saivaite Temples in Mannar and Trincmalee are referred to in the Thevarams (6th-7th Century).
      Buddhism and Saivaism prbably coexisted (as they did in South India until around 10th Century).
      I am not sure how ancient the many small dagobas of Kantharodai are.

      • 2
        0

        BTW, Islam preceded Christianity.

    • 1
      6

      Christianity came to Tamil areas well before Saivism.

      Christianity came with St. Thomas, 52 AD to Tamil speaking areas. That is almost 2000 years ago. St. Peter was our first Christian Patriach. Aramaic Jesus spoke is the liturgical language in the Kerala churches and written records by St
      .Jerome show how his teacher Pantanaeus cajd to Chennai in 180 AD and found the Aramaic Bible and the gospel of Mathew in Hebrew.

      When the universal Christian creed was regularised by Emperor Constantine in 325 AD, Bishop John from India attended the Council in Nicea.
      There was Mani after that corrupting the churches with Manichaesm.

      Thevaram period and Saivaism got ascendancy in Tamil areas well after Christianity in Tamil Nadu. At this time Nestorian Christianity as practiced in Kerala, then predominantly Tamil Chera Nadu and was found even in Anuradhapura.

      . Christianity in India is as old as the first disciples of Jesus Christ.

      Western/Latin form of Christianity came with the Portuguese and tried to destroy Thoma Christianity considering it an error.

      Please don’t repeat what illiterate people are told about Christ by xenophobic brahmins and their disciples.

      • 2
        0

        We are talking about Sri Lanka I thought.
        The cult of Siva precedes the birth of JC.
        There is reference to Siva in late Sangam literature.
        Saivaism as we know now is for a good part post-Sankara.
        *
        “Saivaism got ascendancy in Tamil areas well after Christianity in Tamil Nadu.”
        How come that nobody in that period bothered to mention its ascendancy for good or bad?

        • 1
          3

          “We are talking about Sri Lanka…”, ? Then do you mean the Bakthi Iyakkam started in Sri Lanka?

          Where is Sivan mentioned in pre-Christian Tamil literature? Saivites say Three eyed in Old Tamil literature is meant to be Siva. Durga and the ancient Oni demons of Japan have 3 eyes too. Sivam of the sidhdhar is different from and not the blue individual Sivan.

          During the pepper trade, later slowing down in the 9th century, Thoma Christianity I.e. pre western Christianity covered Sri Lanka too. India, Pakistan, Burma, Sri Lanka all included until the seventies. In retracing Apostle Thoma’s travels, Saint Francis Xaviour covered northern Sri Lanka and sent his priests, killed in Jaffna and Mannar.

          In Sri Lanka Anuradhapura has pre saivite crosses and artefacts.

          Thus from the first century Christianity continues to be a religion in Sri Lanka.

          • 2
            0

            “Three eyed in Old Tamil literature is meant to be Siva. “
            That reference recurs to mean Siva, and is affirmed by many scholars, not all Saivaites.
            The Siddha tradition was much later and admirably rational.
            *
            Will the presence of a small group or exchange of artifacts be evidence of a religious tradition?
            “Traces of Syro-Persian Christians in Ancient Ceylon” is the title of a research study. There are others on Persian Christians of the Anuradhapura Period. But the period of the Nestorian cross is in dispute.
            This clearly indicates a foreign presence and not a christian community as in Kerala.

            • 2
              0

              “Thus from the first century Christianity continues to be a religion in Sri Lanka.”
              That is a little over the top.
              Anything continuing by way of a faith or tradition will have evidence of such continuity.
              Your logic is something out of this planet, I should admit.

          • 2
            0

            “Then do you mean the Bakthi Iyakkam started in Sri Lanka?”
            You are mixing two arguments.
            One is about Siva entering a religion. The other is about the presence of a religion in Sri Lanka.
            The presence of an individual of a given faith is not social presence of a religious practice,

      • 0
        0

        A good example of shooting down facts we do not like using six thumbs down.

  • 2
    4

    There goes! Narrowing Tamil language’s definition to Saivaism only.

    Current Research shows the total absurdity of this claim.
    E.g. Ginnette Ishtmasu in The making of Tamil Shaiva Siddhānta

    From the late 19th century, Tamil nationalists, as represented by the Self-Respect Movement, promoted Shaiva Siddhānta as the ‘original’ Tamil religion in an imagined ancient past, where social equality and harmony reigned… Claims that Shaiva Siddhānta is specifically Tamil and non- Brahman in origin or essence continue to inform debates concerning Dravidian identity, the rights of Brahman temple priests, and the language of Hindu worship. .. Research shows that Shaiva Siddhānta first developed in central India among male Brahman spiritual lineages; a distinct regional variation developed later in the south, with non-Brahman Vēlāla leaders and authoritative writings in Tamil. However, traditional narratives of the lives of early non-Brahman gurus highlight the difficulty of transferring authority from Brahmans to Vēlālas, who are classified as Shūdras.

    With such ambivalence even in determining Saivism’s definition or origins, and its spread to the Tamil areas until post 6th century AD, claiming the same antiquity as the Tamil language for Saivism is deliberate hoodwink. Political and attempted caste upgrade

    Very divisive when we are weak.

    • 2
      0

      “From the late 19th century, Tamil nationalists, as represented by the Self-Respect Movement, promoted Shaiva Siddhānta as the ‘original’ Tamil religion”
      UNTRUE, the Self-Respect Movement was anti-Brahminist and atheisstic.

  • 2
    5

    another bold article by the author. thank you for highlighting the darkest side of CVW. i rememeber this kovil which you have mentioned was a vira kovil & it wasn’t a kovil at this size earlier. it was a 3″ * 3″ size just a vel like structure during 1994 period when the kittu park bas built. we tamils are crying of buddist encroaching lands. why are we silent towards hindu kovils encroaching lands?/ the iyappa kovil along ramanathan road was an encroachment in to Dr. Ramanathans land. they built a vairava kovil earlier. now they encroached a huge lands . the nallur temple has encroached the point pedro road. These encroachments are done with the blessings of the uneducated corrupted municipality commisioners & mayors.

  • 2
    5

    before the kittu park was built , the mutherai shanthai, which derived the name as a place were tax was collected from the king sangiliyans time, was a beautiful place were the previous chemani road ran throgh it. it was surrounded with huge mahogany trees. These mahogany trees were found on both side of kachcherinallur road. It was told that these mahagany trees, were planted by the colonial governor who wanted to connect the nallur kingdom & the colonial kingdom were the governorns bungalow was found with in old park. now with the blessings of the current currupted municipality commisionar all these trees are been cut down

    • 4
      1

      There is important information in the thumbs up and thumbs down
      The above comment by TT expresses no opinion but describes factual history.
      And yet, 4 people have given it thumbs down (at 4;05 pm 6 Jan).
      It showns that there are trolls giving thumbs up or thumbs down looking only at the author with no connection to the content

      • 1
        0

        Glad that you noticed. This is a safe heaven for trolls. To hide behind pseudonyms and carry out ad hominem attacks. Therein lies evidence of a great culture not withstanding what the historians may say.

        • 3
          0

          R
          Note that the one who noticed it is also at the same game.
          Think about it.

          • 3
            0

            R
            you may have notices that characters like TT and Thokaikalia rush to the rescue of a person when he is cornered.
            Have you ever wondered who they could be?

            • 0
              0

              SJ- No. Who are they?

              • 0
                0

                Your guess can be as good as mine.

                • 2
                  0

                  Is it not nice to see people talking to themselves,. exchanging sweet pleasantries?

                  • 0
                    0

                    I was just begining to wonder myself. Haven’t been paying that much attention but your comment is a point to note to do so in the future. 😀

          • 1
            0

            SJ – It’s my mistake not to have paid much attention to the commenters, except in few cases, but to the comments made. Didn’t really pay much attention to JMs commenting activity either but noticed that you two have some beef to settle. But thanks for the heads up, will be more vigilant in the future.

            • 2
              0

              R
              I do not personalize issues or call people names.
              But some need it to duck issues.
              JM, you may have noticed, has in places revealed his identity as the author himself.– not too good at protecting his cover.

              • 1
                1

                Yeah, I did notice that JM wasn’t particularly interested in protecting his cover but I thought that was out of choice not out of ignorance.
                .
                Have seen other authors who do the same here. That is commenting from a profile with a pseudonym on their own articles nevertheless not particularly keen on covering the identity.

                • 2
                  0

                  He tried for a while but slipped a little too often.
                  Now he boxes on blind. But I suspect that there are a few shady aliases in use.
                  Personally I prefer pseudonyms for all as they would avoid uncalled for personal abuse. But to use them to throw muck from behind a wall is unacceptable.
                  I was careless and revealed myself by mistake. Every regular knows me and I do face personal attacks, most of which i laugh out. A few who knew me have shredded some of the utterances. that was nice, but not really necessary.
                  But there were some vicious lies which I had ignored for long, but the buck stops here I decided.
                  *
                  It is good to remember that what we tend to see in others is for a good part what we are.

                  • 0
                    0

                    True…

                • 0
                  0

                  “Have seen other authors who do the same here”
                  I think it is inexperience with aliases.
                  An author is best protected when he/she avoids such intervention, unless an answer is demanded. He/she can ideally respond under his/her real name.

                  • 0
                    0

                    SJ – I have no issues with authors commenting and engaging readers in the comments section discussing their own articles. In fact it is even preferable. Whether to use a pseudonym or not for such activity is upto their own discretion I guess. I guess some use the facility available for the use of a pseudonym just to fit in with the sub culture of the commenting community not necessarily to hide their identity, because they reveal it anyways simply by commenting.

          • 0
            1

            Another SJ statement through his hat

      • 3
        0

        I thought that you knew better.
        There is a thriving rent-a-thumb business here.
        So do not rejoice when you have more greens than reds and sorrow when it is the other way round.
        At best it is some kind of popularity rating when it is not ganging up against a certain school of thought.
        *
        Here is sound advise found in a book that you may despise:
        “O Arjuna, noblest amongst men, that person who is not affected by happiness and distress, and remains steady in both, becomes eligible for liberation.”

      • 2
        0

        JM,
        .
        Does this mean you have more enemies in CT?
        Its correct that many people including me don’t read the whole article, its confusing to say that many people disagree with you. It is always preferable for authors to submit short essays rather than long ones.
        :
        All I know is that some twisted mind manipulates that meter to their advantage. This has been the case for a long time.

        And to those who constantly attack annonymous commenters@
        are they not the majority on this page ?
        Why do they do so, is also clear to many but not to all. it is public secret that srilanka kills on revenge more. There are enough records. It is a dangerous place for free thinkers.

      • 1
        2

        Dear “Jaffna Man,’
        .
        Yes, there are lots of complications, and then, imagining that we can put things right, we ourselves break a different rule.
        .
        However, the fact is that we are discussing important issues here. But Ruchira is quite right, when he says this:
        .
        “To hide behind pseudonyms and carry out ad hominem attacks.”
        .
        I’m back in Bandarawela, and I’ve just got the Internet working, after finding, about noon yesterday that my fibre optic landline was broken and on the ground. Never mind how I got it working.
        .
        I’m very glad the “Ruchira” is back. Who is he? I had to make sure:
        .
        https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/harsha-gunasena-16-december-2023/
        .
        I compared gravatars. They are the same.
        .
        Yours is hardly a pseudonym, JM. Your comments clearly state that you are the author of this article. “Ruchira” is also a pseudonym, but he’s consistent, and what he says can be checked.
        .
        I can’t say much more now, but all regular readers know who the intelligent and knowledgeable SJ is. Some things on this page are useful, but I wish some other things had never been said.

        • 2
          1

          Hi Sinhala Man,
          .
          Thanks for the welcome. Yes, its the same old me.
          .
          Just for the record, I have nothing against pseudonyms, in fact I even like them. But what’s troubling is the personal and racial attacks, the vitriol unleashed.
          .
          Currently LankaScot is getting the flack for trying to engage in a decent conversation.
          .
          Sorry to hear about your fiber optic cable. Hope everything else is good.
          .
          Have a pleasant weekend.

          • 1
            2

            R,

            Personal attacks and character assassinations are most common in comments made by one individual. We all know how he continues to do it (including today). We are tired of anyone’s personal things. He is unique in that subject. I don’t want to name it again here. This year I have decided not to address any comments that come my way as provocative.

            So don’t paint everyone with the same brush. That is unfair. It is good for us that you are the new “Keeper” of sinhala_man. We’ll see how long it lasts.
            Btw, most of us in CT are anonymous for our various reasons. I don’t want to risk my life every time I come back to visit my mother’s grave.

            • 2
              2

              “Personal attacks and character assassinations are most common in comments made by one individual.”
              .
              One individual? See how many make personal attacks here. Look here under this article for a start.
              .
              “So don’t paint everyone with the same brush.”
              .
              I didn’t paint everyone with the same brush. You should check your comprehension of English language. This is not the first time that you’ve jumped to such errorneous conclusions.
              .
              “It is good for us that you are the new “Keeper” of sinhala_man.”
              .
              Funny how people who claim to be civilized than certain others mock those who stand up against abuse and bullying.
              .

          • 1
            2

            Dear Ruchira,
            .
            I agree that pseudonyms can be useful, but not when facts get distorted, sometimes unwittingly.
            .
            I have got to know Jeevan Hoole very well during the eight years or so, but his elder brother I have known for almost 61 years. The brothers get on fine, but are quite different. As you now realise, it is not just the comments, but also the identities of the commenters that become, unfortunately, important. Rajan, essentially a Mathematician, has been forced to carefully write many books of History. This article by him gave us the first glimpse of his latest book:
            .
            https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/statelessness-the-vanishing-of-habeas-corpus/
            .
            The comments will reveal that “leelagemalli” and I then agreed on most things. Also, note all those comments by Manel Fonseka at the end. She’s both sincere and intelligent, but she is physically not in good shape.
            .
            This is about the actual book:
            .
            https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/how-did-we-become-a-lawless-state/
            .
            And Rajan’s greatness has been recognised:
            .
            https://vimeo.com/37432332
            .
            This is Jeevan Hoole who is well known to the public:
            .
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratnajeevan_Hoole
            .
            Panini Edirisinhe (NIC 483111444V)

            • 2
              0

              Dear Panini,
              .
              Yes, I agree willful distortion of facts commenting under a pseudonym could be problematic – another aspect.
              .
              Thanks for the links provided. Will try to go through them at leisure. Today being Monday got few things lined up and am getting little busy.
              .
              Hooles are a familiar name but I do not know a lot about them except for the fact that some Tamils from Jaffna are not very pleased with them. I think they are viewed as some sort of elitist that does not reflect or represent the Tamil community propery.
              .
              At least that’s the impression that I have in my memmory based on conversations I have had atleast with one Tamil hailing from Jaffna but now Colombo based after living and studying in the UK.
              .
              Do they own a certain book store in Colombo?
              .
              Hope you have a good week ahead.
              .
              Best

            • 2
              0

              Sinhala Man,
              .
              As for leelagemalli, I think he is best left for his own devices to do as he pleases. Time spent on discussing him is time wasted.
              .
              Cheers!

  • 3
    4

    correctly said by prof. hoole. calling st.james chaiva kovil….rev.gnanakarunyan says the gods prayer as paraloka manthiram,,,, its no wonder most of these anglican priests got qualified by cheating in their exams like rev. stephan did

    • 4
      3

      Do not priests cheat in general?

      • 6
        1

        Do priests cheat in general, asks SJ. I believe so, with women and money

        All the priests who passed out of Pilimatalawa Theological College in the several years Fr. Stephen was Dean, passed out cheating using question papers leaked by Stephen and then marking their own papers.
        Stephen is blind and the churches knew that he could not mark exams. After admitting low quality people to the college, they were happy that Stephen found a way to help these duds admitted to Pilimatalawa pass and get their degrees.
        However, the cheating must have preceded Stephen since admission standards have been poor for long.

        Using these dud degrees not recognized by the UGC, some Pilimatalawa graduates are doing doctorates at Jaffna. Peradenya, Kelaniya and more.
        Bishop Dushantha Rodrigo himself also got into an MBA program without a UGC-recognized first degree. University Senates collude because in our cheat-universities, lecturers are desperate for graduate students to get points to be professors
        Once such cheating is permitted, it spreads. I do not know if the priesthood can be saved.

        • 5
          0

          Glad that you agree.
          Priesthood will last as long as organized religion lasts.

        • 5
          0

          I think those monks or other priests, regardless of the religion if they grew up in Sri Lanka, are completely abusive and hypocritical. I know this is not equally valid for many of them.
          When I was a teenager, riding school buses (late 70ties and 80ties), I was touched by monks, but we didn’t know how and what he was doing at that time. The same was explained me by our same-age boys then. Unlike today’s teenagers, we didn’t know much about sex and stuff until we were 18 or so.
          I am in my mid 50’s and I grew up in Sri Lanka where respect, dignity and other social values were higher than today.
          Everyone respected one other so much. The spoken Sinhala language was respectable then. Radio and TV langauges were decent than today. The written langauge on daily circulating newspapers were also decent. The terms added to the Sinhala language over the course of 3 decades were considered “rascally Sinhala” at the time: if my dear late mother or grandmother had heard them today, they would have looked at us on the spot in a strange glance.
          “Patta – the best, arthal gannawa – become geile, elakiri – fantastic etc”.

        • 0
          2

          I have no time to check this out, Jaffna Man. But you must be taken seriously because weren’t you a Member of the UGC some time?
          .
          Doesn’t it go somewhat like this?
          .
          Pilimatalawa is affiliated to this University which is somewhere in or near Calcutta, West Bengal, India. The degrees (earned or unearned!) at the Theological College in Pilimatalawa (near Kandy, and I have actually visited the place) are conferred by this University, which is recognised by the UGC of Sri Lanka:
          .
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serampore_College
          .
          This has enabled some priests to satisfy the requirement demanded for appointment as Principals (various other titles are used by individual schools) of Recognised Private Schools”. Please study this serious and honest judgement:
          .
          EKSITH FERNANDO v. MANAWADU AND OTHERS (ST. THOMAS’ COLLEGE CASES) SLR 2000, Vol :1, Page: 78
          .
          Details here:
          .
          https://www.lawlanka.com/lal/relatedCases?chapterId=1981Y14V381C&subjectName=education
          .
          But it looks as though a reader clicking on that link has to follow up by paying. Depending on how one googles, one can get download for free, and I have a copy on my Hard Disk.
          .
          This shows how complicated and confusing life is getting to be. I agree that there are priests and priests! Some seem to know next to nothing, but there are a few whom I respect.
          .
          Panini Edirisinhe of Bandarawela (NIC 483111444v)

          • 1
            2

            I’ve just tested this to check on the full text of the Supreme Court judgement that I have referred to, and obtained two different results:
            .
            file:///E:/S.%20Thomas’/Board%20of%20Governors/009-SLLR-SLLR-2000-V-1-EKSITH-FERNANDO-v.-MANAWADU-AND-OTHERS-ST.-THOMAS-COLLEGE-CASES.pdf
            .
            and
            .
            https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#advanced-search/attach_or_drive=true&query=iwinothlakshan%40gmail.com&isrefinement=true?projector=1
            .
            They open in Mozilla Firefox browser, and can be downloaded all over again, but is that only because in the case of the first it refers to something on my own hard disk, and in the case of the second, it is available on my email address.
            .
            Will it open on other computers; if not, what results will get produced? I ask because I don’t understand how these things work, and I feel that there are many human beings who know much less than I do.
            .
            Jaffna Man has both PhD and DSc with computing as the central subject, and I know that SJ, old codger, et al, know much more than I do.
            .
            As LankanScot (writing Latin has asked), “What is Truth?”
            .
            How many of us are sure of all that we claim to know?
            .
            Panini Edirisinhe

          • 2
            0

            Thank you, Panini aka Sinhala_Man.
            The UGC rule is that a degree to be recognized, the conferring university must be listed in the Commonwealth Universities Year Book. The Theological College of Lanka is not.
            Indeed, TCL does not issue Serampore degrees. The TCL website only claims to be “affiliated to the Senate of Serampore College (University) of India and accredited by the Association of the Theological Education in South East Asia (ATESEA).” TCL does not issue Serampore degrees.
            And what does it mean to be affiliated to the Senate of a University? Serampore University is not an accreditation agency.
            When the copying scandal broke out, I wroite to the Serampore Senate informing them of how these fellows cheat and a generation of priests have cheated and work as priests with the TCL degree. There was no reply. I wrote then to the Registrar. Again there was no reply. That is how much Serampore cares for TCL and its name. That affiliation means nothing.

    • 7
      1

      https://shaivam.org/scripture/English-Articles/1397/saivism-of-the-tamils#gsc.tab=0

      Read. Saivism (worship of Shiva) was dominant among the Tamils, and most of Sri Lanka’s Hindu temple architecture and philosophy of Sri Lanka drew from that tradition. Sambandar noted a number of Sri Lankan Hindu temples in his works. The Nagas is claimed to have practiced an early form of Hinduism, worshipping Siva and serpents. This animistic Saivism is also common in Tamil Nadu and other parts of India. The Nagas who inhabited the Jaffna Peninsula were probably the ancestors of Sri Lankan Tamils. The 5 ancient Siva temples of Sri Lanka is also said to have been built by the Nagas before 6th century BCE. The Nainativu Nagapooshani Amman Temple in Nainativu is believed to be one of the Shakti Pithas.

      • 10
        1

        Prof S. Ratnajeevan H. Hoole. I can understand what you are saying but this is not the time or place to bring a division amongst Tamils, on the basis of origin, religion, region, caste, to further sub divide them, when their very existence as a people is in peril. The Sinhalese would love this. Look how they have used their state power to consolidate themselves and cement all their divisions amongst them, Low country/Kandyan Sinhalese. Buddhist/Catholic/Protestant. High caste/Low caste, very recently Sinhalised Sinhalese from the coastal belts especially the northwestern and western coastal belt/More older Sinhalese populations from the interior. These divisions were far more at the time of independence than the divisions amongst the Tamils. Look how they have successfully whittled away and reduced the island’s Tamil population, which was around 26% to 16% within 70 decades and further created new identities from the Tamils on the basis of caste, region and origin, like the Colombo Chetties, Bharatas( Paravan) . They further have used these new identities created from the Tamils and the Muslim Tamils, as a tool to work against the rest of the Tamils and do their bidding by throwing crumbs to them and giving them little perks, so that they will want more and do their Sinhalese master’s bidding.

        • 10
          1

          We do not now need a further division. If there is a common Tamil candidate, they cannot be a Hindu or Christian hardliner or fanatic but someone who can appeal to all Tamils, even an Indian origin Tamil politician.
          Look how a Christian Tamil like Chelvanayagam was able to bridge this gap and appeal to more than 80% Hindu Tamil population because he was genuine and had charisma or Prapkaran who came from the middle Karaiyar caste was able to win over the 50% ritually higher Vellalar (Hindus and Christians) who make up 50% of the Sri Lankan Tamil population. I know you have the interest of all Tamils in your heart and many times bravely fought for the rights of all Tamils, including the use of the Tamil language which no Hindu Tamil has done, and I agree with you that to be a Tamil you do not have to be Hindu or a Saivite or only belong to certain castes or of a certain origin. These a deliberately brought on by power hungry ignorant bigots.

          • 2
            0

            The footwork for the FP was done by the likes of C Vanniyasingam. CV was a very capable organizer and a man of the people. SJVC was built up as a figurehead, and the success of the FP is owed to Sinhala Only Act. SJVC who was humiliated in KKS in 1952 by a UNP candidate was declared a ‘prophet’ and Lanka’s Gandhi not long after. That was good show business as long as it lasted. It began to fade in 1965 when they joined the UNP in government with a cabinet post, the way the ‘traitor’ GGP did 17 years earlier.
            Pirapakaran was a ruthless bully who brooked no dissent.

            • 2
              0

              Yes, SJV was humiliated because his was a new party in 1952, having just broken off from the Congress. He was defeated by Sir Pon Ramanathan’s Indian son-in-law (S. Natesan) of the UNP whose communal slogan was Kurusa Vela? (The Cross or the Vel?) It still echoes loudly. But SJV continued to win in all subsequent elections from 1956 having converted the Tamil people to his bold stand for the Estate Tamils.
              SJV’s success in 1956 was prior to (not after) the Sinhalese only Act. SJ is talking through his CP Peking Hat giving vent to his biases and frustrations because his party never took root.
              Whatever SJ may say, SJV was the backbone of the FP then.

              • 2
                1

                But Vanniyasingam won, and Rajavarothiam a new FP candidate in Trincomalee won.
                The FP was rejected at the electorate because what it had to offer to the Jaffna Tamil was of little consequence: who in Jaffna cared about the plantation worker? Who understood federalism?
                The Sinhala Only cry echoed strongly in the North. That was an election campaign issue to attack GGP. Airthalingam and Rajadurai made emotional speeches and Mrs A sang Tamil sentimental songs on stage.
                The previous year Sir John K visited Jaffna and pledged parity of Sinhala and Tamil when Handy P raised the issue. So the issue was alive well before the election and thus a campaign issue in 1956 as the UNP too had resolve to make Sinhala as sole official language. That destroyed GGP’s credibility.

              • 1
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                The FP went downhill since 1960, especially after joining the UNP government in 1965. The Satyagraha was a diaster. Party members regretted the absence of CV, a very pragmatic leader who even initiated support for the Hartal of 1953.
                Do I blame SJVC for the ruin of the FP?
                NO.
                Decisions since the 60s were increasingly taken by a gang operating from veranda in Alfred House Gardens. SJVC did not author a single major decision including the secessionist agenda.
                Ask someone who knows things why many talented people of experience left the FP in the 1960s.

        • 5
          1

          Sorry 7 decades and not 70. Should have been 70 years.

          • 2
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            Take it easy.
            In our historical tradition a zero this way or that never mattered.

        • 2
          0

          “I can understand what you are saying”
          But do you agree with it?

      • 2
        7

        Hello Rohan25

        I have an interest in Archaeology and whilst I am aware of the 5 Temples I cannot find any Archaeological Reports on these sites. If I understand correctly they were Thiruketheeshwaram and Muneshwaram Temples in the West, Thondeshwaram in the South, Koneshwaram in the East and Naguleshwaram in the North.
        I have found a few reports that provide concrete evidence of their existence in the 10 Cenrury CE, however I haven’t been able to find any earlier archaeological findings. Could you provide any links to Archaeological digs for these sites or failing that any good historical references regarding pre-Christian dates? Thiruketheeshwaram may have been associated with the ancient port of Manthai, however there has been very little archaeological investigations even there and no decent reports have been forthcoming.
        Best regards

        • 2
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          LS
          Koneshwaram and Thiruketheeshwaram receive mention in the hymns of Sampanthar 6th-7th Century.
          Kathirkamam (very much) and Koneshwaram are referred to by Arunagiri (14th century) a prolofic composer on Murukan.
          Tamil literature was very secular before the Christian era. Tamil gods were Sanskritized and merged with Aryan gods around that time.
          Writing on palm leaves meant that much documentation was lost for lack of copying the palm leaf texts.
          Rock inscriptions, much of them royal edicts, remained and many came to light in the last century.

        • 6
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          Please persevere and keep on digging and you will find lots more evidence about their antiquity, just like the way you find lots of fake evidence for all your Sinhalese Aryan theories and how you jumped in joy that your Sinhalese wife’s family had traces with certain tribes in Northern India, thinking you found Aryan connection, but they turned out to be Tibeto Mongols. You are not digging enough. Like someone has already stated you are not a genuine Scott (may have been born in Scotland to Sinhalese parents) but a fake wannabe Aryan, Sinhalese racist. Your through racist Sinhalese Buddhist Fascist colours are now coming out. I not going to waste time with your stupid irrelevant diversionary arguments, that Sinhalese racists and extremists are famed for.

          • 2
            4

            Are you the sole licensed grave digger?
            You fake DNA theories.
            Why are you angry with those who disagree with your stories?
            *
            One gets personally abusive about people when one is losing an argument.
            You have done it again.

            • 4
              3

              Self-hating Tamil quisling, licensed grave digger for all Tamils, constantly fawning to every Sinhalese racist and hardliner including this fake the DNA theories are not fake. He himself stated that as per the DNA test done on his Sinhalese wife, they are related to the Tharu people of UP, proving Sinhalese are Aryans and was very jubilant. Did not realize that the Tharu people of UP and Nepal are not Aryans but Tibeto/Mongols and look very Tibetan please google and read before jumping to defend out and out fake Scot Sinhalese racist.

              • 3
                3

                Latest genetic tests done all Sri Lankan people done by Sinhalese scientists themselves have proved that the island’s Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims and even Indian origin estate Tamils who only arrived here 200 years ago from South India and had been isolated and hardly intermarried into another community are all very closely related and essentially the same people, meaning they are Dravidians. Only person who is nasty spiteful and abusive here, especially to your fellow Tamils is you. This fake Scottish Sinhalese extremist trying to wear down Tamil bloggers with repeated unwanted unrelated questions not relevant to the topic and theories, to deliberately divert and ultimately discourage the blogger from posting. A tactic used by all Sinhalese racists here. However, you support them as they love a self-hating Tamil quisling, who does a lot of their dirty work for them here. Noticed he and Lester start jumping in and start to comment whenever the debate goes against the Sinhalese hardliners and racist, they start appearing with their irrelevant questions and topics, as if on a cue. Of course, they know that you are also there to support them.

        • 5
          3

          Why don’t you now show definite archeological proof that they are not fake Scott Sinhalese racist.

          • 3
            3

            Hello Rohan25,
            My DNA is the R-M269 Y-DNA haplogroup and tests positive for a specific Y-DNA signature: GATA-H4=10, 406S1=11, 565=11. This means I am a probably a descendant of the 4th High Steward, Alexander Stewart (1214-1283) of Scotland. On my mother’s side my earliest traceable ancestor is William Strachan who married Margaret Stephen on the 25th September 1669 in Arbuthnott, Kincardine, Scotland. How far back do you trace your ancestry?
            Need any more data – you can check all the Parish Records on the Scotland’s People website.
            Best regards

            • 3
              3

              Very decent rebuttal.

            • 5
              4

              Oh really glad to hear that, just like your Kandyan Sinhalese wife is closely related to the Tibeto Mongol Tharu people from UP/Nepal? Anything else I need to know?

              • 1
                1

                How can any inform one who claims to know every thing?
                Your gems are as precise as your DNA based history.
                Keep it up. I need amusement.

              • 2
                2

                Hello Rohan25,
                Yes, when you are in a hole don’t dig deeper😊. And keep your sense of humour. I understand ( but I don’t know the full history) the deep resentments that Tamil’s have against the Sinhalese, Both the British and the South Africans had to go through some form of Peace and Reconciliation process. The British did it in a mealy mouthed way with the Good Friday Agreement whilst the South Africans had a proper Commission.
                Any questions that I raise are from a genuine attempt to understand the past or to sometimes point out my experience in different countries. Since my schooldays I have been a supporter of the Palestinian struggles against Israeli apartheid. The Genocide being committed in Gaza is dwarfed (in terms of amount of civilians killed) by the 2009 War Crimes committed in the North East of Sri Lanka at the end of the Civil War.
                Sometimes it is necessary to use strong language, but in a forum such as this it is better to be professional and treat everyone with respect, even if you disagree with them.
                Best regards

                • 4
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                  LS
                  “The Genocide being committed in Gaza is dwarfed (in terms of amount of civilians killed) by the 2009 War Crimes committed in the North East of Sri Lanka at the end of the Civil War.”
                  It is not mere numbers but the way things are done. The occasional soldier or militant has committed a war crime. here. there were instances where public buildings like churches and hospitals were bombed. The government has tried to distance itself from such crimes. At least there was a sense of shame.
                  But in Gaza it is war crime by design.

          • 3
            3

            I am not Scott’s keeper.
            I think that he can answer in a civilized way.

            • 4
              4

              No, his mouthpiece and guardian angel.

              • 1
                2

                Certainly not like you are of PK (unless both are one and the same).

                • 3
                  1

                  I do not need to defend PK, he or she is quite vociferous and can definitely defend themselves as often seen and does not need any rescuing by me. Most probably It may be vice versa. However, our views and opinions are very similar I admit but then again so are the views of most Tamils here.

                  • 1
                    2

                    He calls you uncle and do not know his gender!
                    Has he/she undergone some kind of surgery?
                    *
                    ” so are the views of most Tamils here”
                    I doubt. I fear that their views are considerably less bigoted and they do not resort to lies.

                    • 1
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                      “quite vociferous”
                      That is a correct description.

                    • 2
                      1

                      Actually he/she called my Anna and not uncle, however, does not matter, I can be Anna or Uncle or even grandfather does not bother me, as I am in my mid 50s and will soon be a grandfather. Just because they called me Anna or uncle, does not mean that I personally know who this person is, other than my interaction here. Can be a male female Trans or even a human imagining themself being a pig. The only person resorting to lies is you and if I post I first check to see if the facts are correct and post, you may not like it stiff, that is not my problem.

                    • 0
                      0

                      “Actually he/she called my Anna and not uncle”
                      So the transgender person who calls you anna referred to you as maamaa in a response.
                      Is maamaa another word for annaa in ancient Tamil, or is it a case of early dementia?

        • 4
          2

          Written proof is not going to come out from the blue sky. It is accepted these five Ieswarms are older than Chidambaram or Madurai Meenatchi. After the 6th or 7th century, Ceylon was not one land to name all five as Iswarams. If you look at names in Batticaloa, all the towns are systematically named in Sangam grade Tamil. If these temples were called just before the 10th century, they might have got a name Like Kathirkamam, a pure Sangam version. These are on the sea shore. So, they were named 2,500 years ago. These names came from Indus Valley regions around 5000 years ago. “Eesan (Sivan) ” was always in all Tamil. “Eswaram” took a different form. This is something here we repeatedly explain in Tamil. You don’t say the bird crow as Kakam or write it as Kaham. Rather it is done in the other way. Because Agastyar bridged the writing and saying of the Tamil Brahmi to usage ease. That is why these five temples still have the uncorrected spoken form. They remain still in colloquial form as Essssswarms, a format lost in TN and Ceylon, after they started to use Brahmi, Agastyar corrected. You can observe that difficulty present even in his name too (Not Akachiyar!). “isss” is no longer acceptable writing. Written as “ichch” said “Issss”. It is a relativity theory for a learned Tamil.

        • 3
          1

          The dates of the temples’ debut are never going to be clarified. But parsing Indus Valley scripts may shed some light to answer the question of the controversy existing in their naming convention. The question is “why are these five temples named alike in the same fashion that is inconstant to the contemporary Tamils in use in Ceylon & TN.” “Certainly Mahanama didn’t do this atrocity, I guarantee. One way to start answering that is like: “languages change forms over the periods, like communities’ founding culture changes. Agastyar and Tamil pronunciation is a classic example……………..” The great support for our theory is that the prefix adjective appears in two of their names but other three are with the original suffix “Eswaram”. Muneswam, Naguleswam and Thondeswarm did not take the adjective “Thiru ”, which was a style of TN around and after 4th, 5th centuries. One adds Thiru for villages considered as holy and people considered as holy. That convention might have come to TN 2000 years ago, with Veda & Sanskrit, which has “Sri” prefix. ThiruKoneswaram and ThiruKetheswam took the Thiru for the first time only in the Hymns Sampanthar and Apar wrote, (they never visited Ceylon, Thirugnanasambandar was at Kanyakumari, looked at that angle two temples, composed his ones.) The appearance of the Thiru in the two temples’ names dumping a message of their antiquity we need to decode.

        • 3
          1

          “Thiruketheeshwaram may have been associated with the ancient port of Manthai You are apparently praying for the proof from Mahanama. Sadly any part of Mahanama in that Chronicle is a bestiality story from 5th century BCE to 6 Century CE. One). he did not live that time to record the history, Two). His hatred was imported from TN’s war among Hindus, Jains and Buddhist. Don’t be prejudiced or selective if you want to research for the truth. Neither Rohan Gunarate nor Kadigamar can give you a hand on this either. If you cannot see the world-famous natural Trinco port near ThiruKoneswaram, or if you damnly hope to convolute that port was built by the European invaders, you have already pricked your eyes before you set out on your journey. Otherwise, it is hard to explain you missing the Trinco Port though some excuses can be given regarding KKS and Thondeswarm. In the name of research, In the name of written proof, chatting again and again, Mahanama’ fouls are not going to clarify so many unanswered questions in the history Europeans wrote copying Mahavamsa.
          The truth is all other four have their ports associated with other than Munneswaram. That has to be explained by connecting the Tsunami and earthquakes which are cited as took place between TN and Ceylon. That is A matter for science, not for preserved documents.

          • 2
            1

            Hello Mallaiyuran,
            Pliny the Younger gave a detailed eye-witness account of the destruction of Pompeii, in 79 AD, even citing the devastating pyroclastic flows of gas and dust. His descriptions were considered by many to be a fabrication until scientists in the 20th Century studied the sediments and confirmed Pliny’s account.
            Sometimes documents can be very objective – even from the distant past.

            Best regards

            • 2
              1

              We are talking about two different subjects. Tamils’ history was not properly written. Written accounts were destroyed by nature because they were on leaves. During religious upheaval in TN a large volume of Hindu, Jain, Buddhist materials were either dumped in water places or set fire. Further Mahavamsa was not honestly composed from the docs preserved by Tamils, who brought that religion from TN. Earthquake & Volcano eruptions probably are easy ones to establish their true history. Denial of “Pliny the Younger ‘ might be simply a political one. I don’t blame the deniers too much because a lot of fabrications are also there in such circumstances. Some South Indian researchers, after studying Mathura, wrote that Kampar’s description of Northern town Ayodhya in his Ramayana was highly resembling the Mathura existed at his time. My stand for a long time is that Mahanama’s Mahavamsa from 5th BCE to 6AD is just fiction. I have brought my reasons here many times earlier. Major issues are with the whole story of Vijaya’s birth, Bengali’s migration, Pandya princesses’ marriage, Yaka description, Dutugemu’s race- religion, purpose of war……. 101% fiction. Large towns of Tamils like Poompuhar still undersea intact. The Indian government reluctant to studying those but building a Ram Temple in Ayodhya, to establish fake. Does the Muslims destroyed the temple there that was connected to Ram?
              Sometimes written evidence is garbage.

        • 5
          2

          Lanka Scot

          “….. however there has been very little archaeological investigations even there and no decent reports have been forthcoming.”

          Do the official archaeologists or the archaeological department really want to dig to discover evidence of people’s existence. Every artefact that was discovered in this island is somehow attributed to Sinhala/Buddhists civilisation.

          You should check your DNA.
          _

          • 3
            3

            He is a Chingkalla hardliner and extremist, most probably born in Scotland to Chingkalla parents, who have imparted their anti Thamizh hatred to him, now pretending to be a native Scot. Do you think a real native Scot will really care, even if they were married to Chingkalla woman? Maybe but the probabilities are rare, unless jobless and has nothing else to do, other than do the bidding of his newfound Chingkalla family.

          • 2
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            Hello Native Vedda,

            Balangoda Man lived here more than 30,000 years ago. I don;t think the Sinhalese can claim him as an ancestor😊.

            Best regards

            • 1
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              Genetic studies done on the ancients of sl literally show Sinhalese and vedas as the closest descendants first of before you show your stupidity do a research

              • 1
                0

                m
                Nice name

            • 1
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              LankaScot

              Thank you.

            • 1
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              LS and NV,

              You may be right. I have not received any detailed declaration that “Balangoda Man” belongs to the Sinhalese_race.
              Was Balangoda Man an indian ?
              Balangoda Man was a direct ancestor of the Vedda people and some Sinhalese groups, according to Sri Lankan anthropologist Deraniyagala. I dont hope this Deraniyagala is not related to Dr Nalinda De Silva (the Guru of sinhala racism).

              Their size and robust bone structure, among other characteristics, have survived to various degrees among Veddas and some members of the Sinhala community.

    • 0
      1

      It is believed Jesus studied in India Hinduism.

      “According to the scrolls, Jesus abandoned Jerusalem at the age of 13 and set out towards Sindh, “intending to improve and perfect himself in the divine understanding and to studying the laws of the great Buddha”. He crossed Punjab and reached Puri Jagannath where he studied the Vedas under Brahmin priests. “

      • 0
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        It is believed Jesus studied in India Hinduism.
        He flew El Al on both journeys.

  • 9
    0

    As others have pointed out, this article lacks focus, straying into a litany of grievances that the author has mentioned in previous articles. Even if it may be factual, it muddies the message.

    Looking strictly at the common Tamil candidate discussion, I don’t think it is a bad idea for Sanakiyan or Sumanthiran to enter the fray. The former needs to clearly explain why he was with the SLFP/MR/Pillaiyan (?) in the beginning. It seems to me that he also needs to show a bit more maturity in his communication style, leaving his more animated expressions behind, and choosing his words more carefully and tactfully. If he does so, he will be able to earn a bigger audience SL-wide as well as in neighboring India, and he can leverage that in finding a political solution.

    • 5
      2

      A
      It has focus on things that the many fail to notice.
      The subject itself is an excuse to fulfill the purpose.

    • 3
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      “Even if it may be factual”
      A very big IF.

    • 2
      3

      “As others have pointed out, this article lacks focus, straying into a litany of grievances that the author has mentioned in previous articles. Even if it may be factual, it muddies the message.”
      .
      Nevertheless the amount of attention it has received tells that there’s a message to be received, that may not be explicit in the essay.

    • 2
      1

      Agnos
      Instead of de-fanged Sanakiyan, how about SJV, Amirthalingam or Sampanthar Aiya taking a new birth to ensure that anything goes unnoticed for another 75 years or no Sinhala Buddhists politicians have to concede that Tamils have problems. During the Chitanta Government Evil visited as opposition leader and stuck Sinhala Buddhist rapist lion flag in Sampanthar Aiyya’s hand to destroy TNA, in North East. At the start of Yahapalanaya government, he returned as the PM and ordered a principal “Shut up and sit down” in front of his students and teachers, for trying to complain about his school’s condition. Now, in this visit he said 13 A enough for Tamils; Western Province has grown up (50% GDP of Ceylon). North was destroyed (4% of the GDP- poorest in the country) by inactive Provincial Councils that existed from 1987. Evil said Tamils can take help from Japan, France…….and could have developed North. In the early 2000, ambassador Akasi promised to share a $2.5b between Tamils and Sinhalese, only if they both made peace between them. LTTE was not allowed to participate in those meetings. Then Akasi spent all 2.5B in Sinhala provinces and said if Pirapaharan had heeded to him, the North might have become like Japan.

      • 4
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        Mallaiyuran,

        Tamils have 3 options in the Presidential election: boycott, voting for the least antagonistic southern parties, a single common Tamil candidate.

        Even if none of these options will result in a material change, people cannot throw away their chance to vote, so the second and third options are the only pragmatic ones.

        And if you prefer the third option, you need to explain who is the best candidate and why. The rest of your comments is just fluff.

        • 4
          0

          Is Agnos, short for agnostic?

          • 2
            0

            Yes.

            • 1
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              Good! – There was a time I used to identify myself as agnostic. I can remember having to explain what it means.

        • 2
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          A
          You know that it is always all fluff.

    • 2
      1

      Did Japan ever say they want to do anything to Tamils, other than in early 1960s Hitachi proposed a high-speed rail track to the North as a private transporter? Racist UNP-SLFP union just blocked Japan, saying “shoe flies don’t bother me”. Or can we ask Japan now to build passenger and goods train tracks to North and South in that Japanese as private investors. Southern provinces did not become like Japan with Japanese aid. But they all bankrupted each other, mainly the Tamil’s provinces. But later, Sinhala Government hated Japanese low interest projects to Ceylon with less or no commissions for Sinhala Buddhist politicians, so Japan built the subway system for Bangladesh.
      Did anyone in that meeting ask the Indian Ambassador why it has taken so long for India to build a toilet facility in Palai Airport from the time it created the North East Province. Why didn’t Evil suggest that the Tamils take help from India, Canada or even America? It can’t be just simply he is fearing about Trinco port, isn’t it? Is it the Evil theory that if Sinhalese borrow from IMF they will prosper, but if Tamils borrow from IMF, they would be suffering? Why can’t we take a loan from the IMF?

    • 2
      1

      Evil could not attract Volkswagen using his UNP-SLFP union’s central government but the NPC, whose appointed anti-Tamil governors like Rapist Army commander Chandrasiri, Jevan Thiagarajah, Reginald Cooray, The Demulu Buddhist Suren Ragan, Charles like anti Tamils governors could have attracted FDIs? Can you tell me the name if the Appe Aanduwa had sent a human being as the Nothern governor, the cheating its election is different. What is Thondaman doing in the East? World over opposing the inhuman Jallikatu, this clown is for the first time introducing it in Tamil Eelam saying he is bringing in tourist attractions. Easterners, including Muslims are complaining that unplanned tourism is promoting cultural decay and spreading dangerous sexual diseases. We Tamils ran the Switzerland of the East, until the 1970s. Evil and his SLPF partners only created the “Asian Wonder” out of a flourishing country called Ceylon. Then we should still be bound by Evil’s consultancy on where to borrow and from where to beg? . What is the purpose of this new consultancy? Can he first return all Thalikodies he looted from the North Then we will be richer than Western Province. In fact, we were?

      Do you worry, unless Sanakiyan is defanged accidentally, his stupid question is going to force the Southern Royals highness, who are known for their Appa Duppa Diplomatic etiquette, to be forced to answer some questions?

    • 2
      1

      I have a question for you, can you wear your dainty gowns, go to the His Excellence Presidential Palace, using your refined, polished languages and ask the Evil man if Tamils can borrow from China? China is desperate to do thousand and Thousand projects in the North. If you finish that job with the mantra you are chanting, then I deal with China and bring all investments Tamils wants. Why is it that China can invest only in Hangbangtota and make that poorest province to be the second richest province, but Tamils have to do their begging from France only?

      • 2
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        You may have forgotten that on two occasions in the past decade when China tried to do something quite big, the TNA blocked China with Indian pressure behind scenes.
        The TNA, however, could not stop Chinese help to the fishers who are victims of mid-sea robbery.
        China is pretty sharp in business matters. Offer them something that will work, they will grab it with all four limbs.

  • 2
    4

    for a hindu persons burial at st.johns cemetary last year, rev. jebachelvan accepted to conduct the service & do the burial at the cemetary, as the priest warden Mrs. thuseetharan insited that the particular person was the son in law of former cgc principal. how can a lay person make a decision on an individuals faith? is rev. jebachelvan doing his duty ?

    • 4
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      How small can some minds be!

    • 3
      0

      The Bishop is at fault. We Anglicans fall into a Catholic order. Some functions belong to priests and some to the laity.
      Does the Bishop know the difference?
      The problem is when clergy for all sorts of churches are trained together at Pilimatalawa in the name of unity and the trainees are clueless about what goes in the different churches.
      The rules on services are for the priest to interprepret. It is only in the Hindu temple that the Vellala Managers order the Priest on conducting pujas. No way the Wardens can direct the priest on services. The Wardens keep the church clean and make the wine and bread ready and have no other role in a service. That belongs to clergy.
      When the education of clergy is wanting, educated Wardens take over the functions of priests.
      TT: I hope you are right in saying Chundikuli Principal Mrs. Thuseetharan took over the job of the priest in directing the burial of a Hindu. That is very high-handed of her. She must know here limits of power as Warden. I hear that she and her husband (Principal of St. John’s) are irregular at church but order the students to go to chapel.

      • 2
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        TT and David
        Re your comments

        At the request of the St Johns Vicar who conveniently passed the buck that any clarification should be obtained from Archbishop himself and having exhaustee my patience dealing with Rodrigo, i am on safe ground to say with such leadership the Anglican clutch is doomed, has no future in SL

        Harold de Soysa, Lakshman Wickrenayake, Chickera, James Rat (although his candidacy was scuttled in 78/79), the present man is no match for the position. Utter disgrace.

        We need someone like the Catholic counterpart Malcolm Ranjit to discipline and rein in the cowboy wardens and uneducated vicars who found their vocation not by calling but as a last resort.

        We need men with ability not effeminate weaklings referring decision making back to the wardens..

        Who is wearing trousers in the Anglican hierarchical structure ?? Certainly not the current Archbishop Rodrigo

        Sad situation. I intend taking it up at the highest level once I return home.

        • 1
          1

          For the record 3 plots side-by-side ALREADY PAID IN FULL belongs to the family for decades.

          Neither the Vicar nor the supposedly better educated Archbishop has explained why a 3 tier pricing system with those who died overseas being asked to pay 12 times more and that too in foreign currency ! In what way is an urn with ashes of a loved one dying overseas more expensive to bury than someone dying in jaffna.

          Below is the msg the family received from Vicar at the crack on dawn

          [06/01, 4:58 am] Rev Jebachelvan:
          Dear …
          I refer to your communication regarding the interment of your mother’s ashes,

          In consultation with the bishop and the archdeacon, we have decided to revise the current rates for burial at our church. This will be done at the next wardens’ meeting.

          In the meantime it has been decided to inform you that you could pay an amount that you feel reasonable, to have your mother’s ashes buried in the plot owned by your family.

          Thank you.(end quote)

          • 1
            0

            Part 2

            Why could they not communicate this “indecision” nearly 4 weeks ago without referring me to Archbishop R ?? In which part of the anatomy do the wardens of St John’s and Vicar have their brains ?? Or do they have any grey matter at all ? What do we think of the Archbishop who submits to their whims allowing the tail to wag the dog ??

            Will the Archbishop Rodrigo have the gall to instruct (and ensure) the wayward Vicar that any such exorbitant sums extorted in foreign currency from families of the bereaved in tge past be returned to the respective families ??.

        • 0
          0

          “Lakshman Wickrenayake,”
          Not Wickremasinghe?

      • 2
        0

        “It is only in the Hindu temple that the Vellala Managers order the Priest on conducting pujas. “
        Not in India where the Brahmin is boss.

    • 8
      2

      Do we really care? Why are all these details on this forum. These matters should be dealt by the church and not used by recently converted Protestant Christian fanatics, whose grandparents and great grandparents were Hindus, whom we call rice Christians, who largely converted to material gain, now demonizing Hindus and trying to create a division between Christian and Hindu Tamils, who are fully integrated with each other. Most probably this so-called Hindu person married a Christian and his spouse and children are Christians and may not have been baptized or confirmed but after his or her marriage followed Christianity and became a good Christian. This is what is important and not rituals. So, what is your issue? You are just a religious fanatic and really not a good Christian, looks like there is not Christian love or compassion but lots judgmental hatred towards others, that I have seen amongst many of the so-called Evangelical Christians.

      • 7
        1

        Leave this so-called Hindu person who is really a Christian to lie peacefully in his or her grave. This is the sign of a good Christian and Lord Jesus Christ the founder of Christianity who was a Jew, would have done this. This is what the Anglican Priest in his or her infinite wisdom had done. Now you are being spiteful and trying to make this a religious war between Hindu and Christian Tamils. Disgusting. Let the dead bury the dead and be in peace. I am a Hindu and I know this. Please read the bible properly and the love, peace and forgiveness it preaches and not be judgmental. Bery petty mean and small minded in my opinion.

  • 1
    0

    These two jokers are Ranil Rajapaksa and Mihinda Rajapakse sent double agents.

  • 0
    1

    It is not a good thing to keep attacking leaders

    • 2
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      dtg
      “It is not a good thing to keep attacking leaders”
      But there are no leaders here.
      What is your complaint?

  • 6
    0

    I live in Jaffna and like all Saivites, I have many Christian relatives. They have not told me on the problems that Hoole mentions in his article. Most people do not think highly of Wigneswaran or Ponnambalam. They, like populist politicians everywhere, need to thump up hatred in order to maintain some relevance. Hoole does the same by stirring up the hornet’s nest in order to remain relevant. There is a lot of temple building among the Hindus in Jaffna with money coming from abroad. The people in the diaspora satisfy themselves by giving money to their village temples

    • 3
      0

      C

      “Hoole does the same by stirring up the hornet’s nest in order to remain relevant.”

      I thought you were out of Sri Lanka. So what you say here is very valid for the readership. Does that mean Dr. Hoole wants to run for the next election?

      • 2
        0

        He ran for a few elections which he lost very badly.

    • 2
      0

      C
      Very correct.

  • 8
    0

    Under the guise of a discussion of a common candidate, this article has meandered into Hooly Cooly’s pet aversion of Navalar bashing and into building of new Hindu temples. The discussion has likewise moved into pettiness involving even burials. I wonder whether the aim of the Colombo Telegraph is to permit washing of dirty linen involving individual priests which does not have any public relevance. Wigneswaran and his escapades do not interest the public anymore as his future political significance is minor. He is propped up by interested persons for their personal gain. He should gracefully quit as befits a man of his age

    • 7
      1

      I thought I would keep quiet and listen to the vibes coming out of the Tamil community. It seems they are as fractious as as any other Sri Lankans, perhaps more. “High” vs “Low” castes, Hindus vs Christians, Anglicans vs Catholics, even Anglicans vs other Anglicans.
      Common candidate? No chance.

      • 6
        3

        Most Thamizh are united, however a very small vociferous minority of caste and religious bigots, just like the author of this article, with their own agenda create all this mess and give a wrong impression. If you take out all the comments supporting the article from a few people, most probably his friends and small band of supporters, the rest of the Thamizh Hindu or Christian are requesting him to shut up and not to deliberately create divisions amongst Thamizh, that do not exist for his own cranky petty religious agenda. I am an Anglican/CSI Christian and have close connections with the Christian Anglican/CSI Thamizh clergy/ hierarchy and lay people on the island and in the diaspora and no one brings out these concerns and petty squabbles that this person constantly harps on about in the name of religion. He sounds like one of these Pharisees in the bible. Very judgmental but really has no compassion or love. Cranky and wants to create trouble.

        • 6
          3

          As a Christian Thamizh myself I realize that Thamizh culture history and heritage is essentially Saivite, just like the way Chingkalla culture history and heritage is essentially Buddhist. There may be people who follow other religions within both ethnicities and are accepted as part and parcel of that ethnicity, but the fact remains that Thamizh culture is essentially Saivite and Chingkalla culture is essentially Buddhist. St. Thomas did come and spread Christianity to the Thamizh in 52AD and many ancient Chera Thamizh and some in the Chola country also followed him, but they were still a small minority, the rest still remained overwhelmingly Hindu.

          • 5
            3

            It was the same story with Jainism, Buddhism or even Islam. Many Thamizh converted to these religions at various times and reconverted back again to the Hindu or Saivite fold, but the fact is they were all minorities, just like the Christian Thamizh, islands in a huge sea of Hindu or Saivite Thamizh so far. It may change. Who knows but for now. Our culture and way of life is essentially Hindu or Saivite and this so-called educated person should learn to accept this and not create unnecessary squabbles to appease his cranky ego. Lord Jesus Christ will not like this.

          • 3
            1

            PK,
            “St. Thomas did come and spread Christianity to the Thamizh in 52AD and many ancient Chera Thamizh “
            If you go up north 200 miles, there is Kerala, with many more castes and sub-castes than in Jaffna, 20% Christians, 20% Muslims and the rest Hindu, ruled by a Leftist government which includes all religions. But they are nowhere near as divided as this species, the Jaffna Tamils.

            • 4
              1

              OC, all these people who are creating these divisions and din, is actually one person and his various avatars, who have only strangely appeared now and not before as no one else is supporting this fundamentalist agenda, Malayalee on the surface will unite against all outsiders but they are very divided within themselves. Even amongst the Christians the Syrian Christians generally look down on the Latin Christians (Roman Catholics) as they are considered to be descended from low caste converts, converted largely by the Portugues. Whereas they are supposed to be the descendants of the upper castes Chera Tamils who were converted by St. Thomas later slightly mixed with local Jewish converts to Christianity and Syrian Christians who fled the Islamic conquest of Syria. Hene the language Syrian used in their churches. However, the real origin is a bit different. Until recently it was Taboo for them to intermarry into these Latin Christian families, just like the way many Protestant Jaffna Tamil families looked down upon most Roman Catholics, because they were largely converted from the lower or fisher caste, whilst most Protestant Tamil Christians were upper caste converts.

              • 2
                1

                This is the reason they easily intermarried into upper caste Hindu families, just like many Sinhalese Anglican families did with upper caste Buddhist families. Even the Muslim Mappilas of Kerala are graded into various castes. Families considered to have most amount of Arab belong to the highest caste, and recent converts to the lowest (the bulk). As for the Hindus their caste system and sub castes amongst them is mind boggling. It was the most caste ridden society in India. This is the reason almost 40% of its population converted to Christianity and Islam. Jaffna is nothing, even compared to caste discrimination in Tamil Nadu or the rest of India. May be because the p[opulaiton is more educated and around50% are Vellalar amongst the Sri Lankan Tamils. Of the remaining 50%, 60% belong to the Kariyar or other fishing castes, who are quite independent and traditionally never came under the Vellalar/Brahminical fold.

                • 2
                  1

                  Are you aware that until the 1940s or it went until the 1970 the Namboothiri Brahmin, the younger sons can go to a Nair house (Tharavaadu) in Kerala and sexual relationship with any woman living there. They cannot refuse from a 16-year-old girl to an attractive 50-year-old women. The Namboothiri male can be 16-year-old to a 80-year-old man. They have to oblige, and it was considered an honour. The children from these unions belonged to Nairs. This is the reason the Malayalees, especially the Nairs, have house names or Ge names, as traditionally a generation or two ago, they only knew who their mother was but never actually knew who their father was. It was called Sambandham. The Namboothiris come in the night with a Pudava( cloth) and presents it to the Nair woman of his choice, in the Tharavaadu and she has to accept it.

                  • 2
                    1

                    Even the Royal family of Travancore was not exempt from this custom. It was not the king’s son who inherits the throne, but the king’s sister’s eldest son, born to a selected Namboothiri. The king’s wife in not the queen but the King’s sister who produces the heir through her union with the Namboothiri. It is only after she produces this male heir through this selected Namboothiri, that she is allowed to have relationship with her actual Nair husband. Mind boggling isn’t it. This degrading customs went on for centuries. I think I gave this video or PK but very interesting how the Malayalam language was formed and the history of the Nairs and why they hated the Tamils.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzcK_xNrJyk

                    • 1
                      1

                      Rohan,
                      All that you say is true about Kerala, but I have not seen so much public venom in their media as we see among Tamils in CT. Don’t you agree?

            • 1
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              oc
              But they sufficiatntly unite against Muslims, China, the left and the Sinhalese– roughly in that order.
              *
              Can you now see why any secular thought is poison to Tamil nationalists on these pages?

      • 4
        3

        More the reason why they should field a common candidate. It may serve them well to soul search among themselves and reconcile the intra ethnic divisions they seem to have. Could only benefit any wider reconciliatory processes with other communities.

        • 2
          0

          R
          A good soul search will lead to the conclusion that there is no suitable candidate.
          So the choice is…

          • 0
            0

            SJ- that itself is a good realization. Makes the attempt worthwhile.

            • 0
              0

              Deal!

      • 2
        0

        OC, I also didn’t know that this wound is dangerous Hindus vs Christians, Anglicans vs Catholics, even Anglicans vs other Anglicans. when it comes to their own issues and caste and religions. That’s why I always hit only South Sri Lanka where people there act like buffaloes marching after Mahinda, the nation’s primitive man.

        I have known several Tamil friends (all of them university-educated aspirants) from all over Europe, many of whom have shared with me that the complex traditional issues in their culture are constantly troubling their younger generations. Many of them feel that Sinhala austerity is much less complicated for them. I really dont know if one could generalise it on the whole tamil population. Some have got married through proposals, being unable to disagree with their own parents have fallen such deep.

      • 4
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        oc
        There are stillborn plans, There are plans dead at conception.
        It is so boring that nobody talks about it seriously,
        Even this essay could not focus on it.

        • 2
          1

          SJ,
          It did produce a lot of inconclusive thunder and lightning…

          • 2
            0

            Lightning, yes. But a rather dark lightning I would say.
            So no light.

    • 0
      0

      Cicero: Hooly Cooly? Are we now stepping into caste epithets like SJ?

  • 2
    2

    The author could help with convincingpeople of the need given that he was a prophet when GR was being nominated. Many Tamils heeded his advice then.
    Deciding on one common Tamil candidate is not going to work without some respected people gathering and debating and finally putting out the argument for it effectively, and that very soon. Proposals for names and capacity can be asked for first thing.
    In our time with SJV around, there was a clear Tamil people’s goal and there were classes conducted for youth to explain why it is best for the Tamil people. Fantastic masters made us think. There was bonding.
    Current communication tools should enable this.
    For this a common secular Tamil identity has to be cultivated overnight. This is not possible in a Dravidian society where the powerful clamour for brahminical recognition succumbing like a people forever born with no self worth or dignity.
    Jaffna men were once thought to be the intellectual machinery of the Tamils. Lately, the men coming out of the Nallur temple all draped alike in their creased new verties covering upto their ankles, all ashed up with wives in silk walking by their sides daintily, all like in the cinema, would make one think that Jaffna Tamils have lost it.

    • 7
      2

      Thokithuki, what is wrong with Thamizh men attending a temple wearing the Verti new or old and their wives wearing nice sarees? Why? Are you jealous? If so, you also can wear a Verti or cross dress and wear a nice saree and attend church. My late uncle used to wear Verti to attend the CSI church in his village in Jaffna and he looked very handsome and looked like a movie star and his wife my aunty, who was also a very pretty lady, used to wear nice sarees too. and they looked very nice and majestic just like in the cinema. I will not mention their names, as you will immediately know who they were and my family connections. Most probably your wife wears nice sarees too when she attends church, or does she wear jeans or hot pants? Looks like you are one big confused bigoted religious fanatic, posting all sorts of irrelevant facts and petty incidents, that no one really cares, when there are far more major issues facing Thamizh to justify your religious fanaticism.

      • 3
        4

        He is about as closely bonded to the author as you are to RSS.

        • 6
          2

          You mean SSS SJ thattha? -:)

          • 2
            2

            Do not let frustration make you abandon the one you once called your guru uncle. (I like to believe that he is distinct from you.)
            I also remember him as RSS, little baby.

            • 3
              1

              SJ 😐😃😄😇😡. Do I need to give to my Guru?

              • 2
                1

                However now I have outgrown by Guru. Used to plagiarize and copy and paste lots of his comments but now do lots of me on research and google. Most probably now can teach my Guruji.

              • 1
                2

                Baba,
                A little problem with the spelling.
                Guru seeya will not like it

                • 1
                  1

                  BTW
                  “However now I have outgrown by Guru.”
                  He had to do that as well!
                  Hmm… growing up seems a hard job easy for the little thind!

            • 2
              0

              Ask Your so-called friend from Scotland Foos yer doos?

              • 0
                0

                Hello Pandi Kutti,
                Never kept pigeons and never will. The people that keep pigeons (even for racing) are very strange😉
                Best regards

                • 0
                  0

                  Hello Pandi Kutti,
                  Your Doric is excellent
                  Best regards

              • 2
                1

                I know nobody here personally but for one or two whom I already knew and claim no friends.
                Personalities do not matter here it is only ideas.
                *
                Have you learned anything useful? If so your Guruji will benefit very much.

      • 1
        3

        Jaffna men used to display individuality af least in mannerisms. This is too picture perfect to suggest that. Sauntering outside the temple in bare upper bodies used to be rare and embarrassing. It is being cultivated on a mass scale. Well brought up women have no choice but to suffer it.

        Politically too they can vote on herd instinct if individuality is not evident in choices.

        • 3
          1

          What is obsession about baring the body. Don’t be a prig.
          Women did not always cover their upper bodies for centuries in many tropical countries. Sigiria frescoes do not show women who were modelling, but in normal attire. Blouses were painted on some of them by some daft prig.
          Men had less problem with bare body so they had a choice. But several temples insist on bare body for men.
          *
          What does well brought up mean? By what norms?
          Women are showing increasingly larger portions of their skin nowadays. (Have you not seen sari blouses with deep necks plunging low at back and front.)
          I think that a fully bare body is not any better any worse. Let women be free to enjoy what they do with their bodies.

          • 2
            1

            What is this obsession about baring the body. Don’t be a prig.

    • 0
      1

      “he was a prophet when GR was being nominated. “
      I know that he facilitated the nomination in his own inimitable style.
      But what was the prophesy?

    • 1
      1

      “In our time with SJV around, there was a clear Tamil people’s goal and there were classes conducted for youth to explain why it is best for the Tamil people. Fantastic masters made us think. There was bonding.
      Current communication tools should enable this.”
      *
      Those were the days, really?
      Memories turn sweet when amnesia takes hold.

  • 2
    3

    Dear Readers,
    what i noticed having read a huge portion of comments to this article where the author himself is proactive with his feedbacks, is – there is a huge battle between the tamils against tamils in nothern srilanka.
    This was not this much clear to many in the rest of srilanka. Nor do the journalists from and out of the region explain it clearly.
    JF’s thoughts are being rejected by their own tamil commenters rather than we the sinhalese. To me those arguments bring by JF is agreeble on mostly.
    So all in all, no resolution to long held tamil ethinic issue itself reveal that they are more responsible for that than the majority srilanken in rest of srilanka.

    • 7
      2

      The author of this article himself is creating all these issues and trying his best to give the impression that this is a huge issue, when in reality it is not. Bringing in all sorts of trivial mundane things, that should be dealt with in the local diocese and making it an issue between Hindus and Christians. As he himself in my opinion is a religious fanatic and is trying his best to get other Tamil Christians to also come to his viewpoint but is failing miserably. If religion was big issue amongst Tamils, SJV Chellanayagam or even Abraham Sumanthiran will not be elected as leaders. Unlike the Sinhalese Christian leaders like Bandaranaike, Jayawardene and many others, who were forced to become Buddhist to be acceptable to larger Sinhalese electorate, they did not have to convert. Proving how mature the general population are., Caste may be a factor in marriage but also now becoming increasingly irrelevant, especially amongst the diasporas. If caste was a factor Prapakaran would never have become a leader, whereas Sinhalese still only accept largely upper castes as their leaders.

      • 4
        2

        The author is a son of an Anglican priest and studied at St Johns College Jaffna, an Anglican institution Just like St. Thomas College. What some his classmates told me was that he was a brilliant student but very cranky eccentric and egoistic. This was their opinion. He was supposed to have become the Vice Chancellor of the Jaffna campus or university but due to politics did not get this and it was given to another Hindu Tamil, and this may be the cause for all this bitterness towards the Hindus. If so this is his personal vendetta, and he should not involve the rest of the Hindu or Christian Tamils. His classmates also stated that being a priest’s son, his views on Christianity and about other religions were very set in their opinion.

        • 4
          1

          If Iam putting it very nicely, this may be the reason with regards to his crusade against the Hindu reformist and revivalist Arumuga Navalar, who managed to revive Saivism back amongst the Sri Lankan Tamils. At the time he started his crusade almost 70% of the island’s Tamils had been forcibly converted by the Portuguese, Dutch and even the British to various forms of Christianity, however through his efforts he stopped these large-scale conversions and reversed this trend and revived Saivism back again as the majority religion amongst the Eelam Tamils, currently around 80%. This may be a source of grievance to this person. Hence this vendetta against him. Most probably due to being forced become Christians for the sake of education, jobs and even to get married, as the Dutch brought in a rule to be legally married, you had to get married in a Protestant Church, most people were pretending to be Christians but practicing Hinduism in their home, like many Jews did in Europe. So when Arumuga Navalar started his Hindu Revival movement, they were just thankful and openly came out as Saivites.

  • 1
    0

    sinhala ultra racist NDS (Nalin de Silva) is back in his public speaking.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msEh1ai0FEw

    This year is going to be an election year. So all extremists will come out of their dens

  • 1
    2

    as correctly said by prof.hoole , the anglican church has become a sivaa kovil.. the bishop of colombo is celebrating thai pongal on 15th at thamapuram church. its been organised by the northern archdecon. thai posngal is hondu velala festival thhanking the son. its not a tamil festival. if the church wants to thank the creations not the creator. whay cant the church conduct the harvest festival on thai pongal day? also its very pathetic to see the state of jaffna university. with profesors like SJ sneaking through the back doors with political influences & make huge noices as if though they are intellectuals

    • 2
      0

      “like SJ sneaking through the back doors “
      You must have much experience in that activity.
      Please share your experience.
      I am all ears

      • 2
        1

        Good point TT.
        To be Senior Professor at Peradeniya takes 8 years as Professor. Sivasegaram/SJ used the back door using 15 years as post-doc in London. Let him explain how he got 8 yearts as a professor unjustifably to become Senior Professor.
        Despite being a Peking Communist, he cheated the poor people of Sri Lanka by drawing the huge Senior Professor’s salary that came from our Treasury that is starved for funds. So much for caring for the poor. If he has a conscience, let him return the money he effectively stole from the poeple when people are going without food.
        It is to hide his cheating that he wants nothing negative to be written here. On the contrary, Cheats should be named and shamed.

    • 2
      1

      Thai Pongal is a pan Tamil festival celebrated in Tamil Nadu by all Tamils, Hindus, Christians, Muslims and Jains. It is a harvest festival. Hindus thank the sun god and Christians thank God. Its origins are very ancient and when it was celebrated all Tamils were Hindus but later when they converted to other religions, Tamils belonging to these religions began to celebrate this ancient Tamil harvest festival according to their traditions. Just like in the west they celebrate Thanksgiving and various harvest festivals according to Christian tradition now. Even December 25Th Christmas was originally a pagan festival now converted to a Christian festival and so is Easter, the celebration of new life and spring, same time as April New Year. You seem to be happily celebrating these once pagan Festivals, that have now become Christian. But celebrating an ancient pan Tamil harvest festival according to Christian traditions in a church is Taboo to your rigid narrow-minded brain filled with fundamental Christian fanaticism, and now derogatively call the Church a Hindu temple. This is all the respect you have for a church, just because they celebrate a Tamil harvest festival and for Tamil traditions and festivals.

      • 2
        1

        You and your various Avatars who have strangely appeared only now to support you and never before, as no one else supporting your Christian fundamentalist divisive agenda not even other Tamil Christians on this forum don’t think we have noticed. Whilst decrying others and calling them fundamentalists are the biggest divisive fundamentalists, trying to divide the Tamils. You want to be recognized being a Tamil, despite being a Christian but do not want the Tamil Christian churches celebrating the Tamil Harvest festival Thai Pongal or the church worshipping god according to Tamil traditions. Why should the Christian god only be worshipped according to western white traditions, most of which is Pagan. Go and see how the Amhara and other orthodox churches worship. Boy you are one confused brain washed trouble creator. Just like the way your classmates described you. They were your classmates not mine, as I had my early schooling in Colombo in an Anglican school too. Iam Hindu as my father was Hindu, so is my wife but my mother became a Christian in her later life. That was her wish and we respected this.
        https://www.ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/1989/02/09/a-christian-reflection-on-an-asian-harvest-festival&post_id=151

  • 1
    2

    reminds me ” the empty vessels makes the most sound

    • 2
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      TT
      Agree.
      You yourself are making quite a din,

  • 0
    0

    The Goebelsian machine grows.
    I have never hideen the fact that I, Ratnajeevan Hoole, am Jaffna Man. I have come back to live in Jaffna and that monicker is to make that point. Most readers of CT know that I am Jaffna Man.
    SJ who is Sivasegaram, makes big point about my allegedly hiding that I am Jaffna Man when he is the one hiding behind SJ. He also hints that TT and Thokaikalia are also me. No I am not. If I want to hide my identity, I know how to do that.
    What SJ/Sivasegaram hints at is then taken as fact by others and they identify me with those names. This seems to be growing. A part of that propaganda is to show that what is said independently by others is me. that reduces the value of these people who have views supportive of me.
    Rohan25 is one such person who refers to my Avatars. He refers to no one supporting me. They dare not when many here would lunge at them with drawn knives. The most casteist persons refer to their having many friends. Somebody above (Cicero as I recall) even claims to have Christian relatives who never complained about things I mention. That I can believe. But does he have Christian relatives who will say they have no fear or discomfort when the entrnace to Jaffna has a huge Hindu Arch or when the Nallur aatheenam fellow publicly called for Jaffna University to be Hindu or when at a public meeting organized by the Hindu Ministry Yogeswaran claimed that we Christian Tamils are not Tamils but only Tamil-speakers?
    Quoting unnamed persons is neither clever nor fair. Anyone can untruthfully attrribute any statrement to anyone. When these are the proposed Common candidates, it is fair game to talk about why many of us do not thinks it is possible to agree on a common candidate.

  • 2
    1

    The Goebelsian machine grows.
    I have never hideen the fact that I, Ratnajeevan Hoole, am Jaffna Man. I have come back to live in Jaffna and that monicker is to make that point. Most readers of CT know that I am Jaffna Man.
    SJ who is Sivasegaram, makes big point about my allegedly hiding that I am Jaffna Man when he is the one hiding behind SJ. He also hints that TT and Thokaikalia are also me. No I am not. If I want to hide my identity, I know how to do that.
    What SJ/Sivasegaram hints at is then taken as fact by others and they identify me with those names. This seems to be growing. A part of that propaganda is to show that what is said independently by others is me. that reduces the value of these people who have views supportive of me.
    Rohan25 is one such person who refers to my Avatars. He refers to no one supporting me. They dare not when many here would lunge at them with drawn knives. The most casteist persons refer to their having many friends. Somebody above (Cicero as I recall) even claims to have Christian relatives who never complained about things I mention. That I can believe. But does he have Christian relatives who will say they have no fear or discomfort when the entrnace to Jaffna has a huge Hindu Arch or when the Nallur aatheenam fellow publicly called for Jaffna University to be Hindu or when at a public meeting organized by the Hindu Ministry Yogeswaran claimed that we Christian Tamils are not Tamils but only Tamil-speakers?
    Quoting unnamed persons is neither clever nor fair. Anyone can untruthfully attrribute any statrement to anyone. When these are the proposed Common Candidates, it is fair game to talk about why many of us do not think it is possible to agree on a common candidate.
    The point is that we have no common identity, going by all this communalsm. For those who say the essay is off-pont, do not forget that a part of the title is Fractured Tamil Identity. Many of the comments denying our problems, insulting SJV Chelvanayakam, and throwing about caste insults, prove tht our identity is truly fractured.

  • 1
    0

    For people in the South, there seem to be just two issues that matter:
    .
    The first is to put an end to corruption, which will put an end to our Economy getting even worse. However, there cannot be a magical recovery. This country will remain poor for another century, unless we manage to make a fresh start.
    .
    Ranil says that he will put the economy right by 2048. On occasion, when challenged, he claims that he’s not thinking of being in charge until that year, but then who is going to lead those MPs who prop him up in Parliament? Probably the Rajapaksas want their progeny, but Ranil seems to want all those happy and gay Royalists like Ruwan Wijewardena:
    .
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruwan_Wijewardene
    .
    I’ve checked; wrong! He had been in the Kollupitiya school, but that does not have A. Level classes. Whether he completed school education in Lanka is not clear. However, if readers can find it, please locate the two earliest comments that I made on this Jeevan article. On that Jeevan and I agree. There is rampant corruption in those Anglican Schools. Consistently pointed out by Jeevan. And he has not tolerated Rajapaksa corruption:
    .
    https://www.colombotelegraph.com/index.php/was-the-presidential-election-free-and-fair-when-colombo-returning-officer-called-sajith-premadasa-the-son-of-a-donkey-asks-prof-hoole/comment-page-1/#comments

    • 1
      0

      PART TWO of FIVE
      .
      Who but Jeevan
      would have written that article? None of the 34 defeated candidates, including AKD of the NPP has responded. However, AKD did come up with a credible response, which I have referred to many times.
      .
      As for other comments
      on that article, there have been none by “leelagemalli”. At that time, Colombo Telegraph was allowing readers ten days in which to respond. That article appeared on the 28th of November, 2019, and the first comment appeared that very day. At that time, the CT rules were less strict, and I was commenting not only as Sinhala_Man, but also under my real name. CT was allocating different gravatars. My first comments under each handle, appeared, on the 29th. However, I was beaten to the comments by a guy calling himself Panini, but with a different gravatar.
      .
      No comments at all by “leelagemalli”. To be fair, I have asked LM about that twice already; he may grumble that I keep referring to it. However, there are many new commenters now, with whom LM is trying to interact, and is getting nowhere! I now make a somewhat different request:

  • 0
    0

    i also heard rev. jebachelvan , while he was a priest at st.james nallur . brought in a new sexton. The present archdecon took over in 2022 january. today no appointment letter for the sexton has been issued. apart from his monthly salaary( if no appointment letter is issued, on what basis the salary is decided??) an allowance is being paid to maintain the church, parish hall & graveyard. who autghorized to pay these allowances? this shows the incompetent people like rev. jebachelvan & rev. selvan who came through back doors only to have the sunday services & lacks any sort of adminsteration skills . Isn’t the public funds wasted without no proper documentation??
    Also, im not surprised. it looks like colour prejudice si another ghost SJ has to fight in addition to caste and religion and greed for professor status

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