23 November, 2017

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When ICES Colombo Made Excursions Into The Lunatic Fringe

By Darshanie Ratnawalli

 Darshanie Ratnawalli

Darshanie Ratnawalli

Once upon a time, when the International Centre for Ethnic Studies, Colombo was not as respectable as they are now, they commissioned Mr. A. Theva Rajan, currently a member of the Transnational Constituent Assembly of Tamil Elam, to conduct a study on the status of Tamil in Sri Lanka, past and present, as part of an ICES project to promote the official language provisions of the 13th and 16th amendments to the constitution[i]. The Head of ICES during this period was Radhika Coomaraswamy. The study was completed in 1992 and was first published in 1995 (Text) with a foreword by a mysterious personage called the ‘Editor, ICES Colombo’.

An ‘Editor’ is an oddity for ICES, Colombo. All Editors are identified by the relevant ICES journal, every one of which is and has always been published by ICES, Kandy. I have a hunch that ‘Editor, ICES Colombo’ was conjured out of air to stamp a special ICES seal of approval on Mr. Theva Rajan’s paper (making it the second stamp of approval. The first being the distinction of being commissioned).

Mr. Theva Rajan now represents the lunatic fringe of Sri Lankan studies in history. That his comfort zone was firmly in the lunatic fringe, even then, when the ICES was trying to sanitize him via institutional approval, becomes clear by the second page of the first chapter of his paper. Consider this bon mot;

“The earliest Brahmi inscriptions of Sri Lanka are generally said to be in the Prakrit language. Rather than denoting any particular language Prakrit simply means “old language”. To further complicate the matter, among experts terms differ. Where Wilhelm Geiger will prefer to use the term the “Sinhala Prakrit” Senerat Paranavitane will say “old Sinhalese”.”

If the lunatic fringe was an exclusive club, statements like these would be its platinum membership cards, a single utterance conferring premium lifetime membership on its author. Prakrit is an old fashioned term. Far from denoting any old language as Theva Rajan claims, Prakrit exclusively and specifically denotes a Middle Indo Aryan (MIA) language, which is the middle or the second stage of development of Indo Aryan languages. The initial stage, Old Indo Aryan (OIA), is represented by Vedic and Paninian Sanskrit. The present descendants of OIA are the New Indo Aryan (NIA) languages represented by the modern forms of European Gypsy (Roma), Hindi, Kashmiri, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pahari, Nepali, Assamese, Bengali, Oriya, Bihari, Maithili, Bhojpuri, Awadhi, Gujarati, Marathi, Sinhala and Divehi[ii]. Every Indo Aryan language, which lives today as a NIA language has had a MIA or Prakritic phase and an OIA phase.

Most lunatic fringe members fail to understand this and don’t know what to make of ‘Prakrit’ (as they call it, the majority of membership being of a certain vintage). Take Hindi for example. The MIA phase of Hindi is not attested (extant samples of written or oral texts in the MIA phase of Hindi aren’t available). That’s why we don’t speak of a Hindi-Prakrit. Although there are many attested Indian mainland inscriptional Prakrits (a medley of MIA vernacular dialects used in mainland Inscriptions from 3rd century BC) and standardized literary Prakrits (such as Maharastri, Sauraseni, Maghadhi and Pali), their relationship to the Indo-Aryan languages now spoken is obscure. One simply cannot take the form of Prakrit found in the Asokan inscriptions of the area corresponding to a present Hindi speaking area and say that particular Asokan Prakrit represents the MIA phase of Hindi. When we speak of Hindi, we always mean a New Indo Aryan language simply because a MIA Hindi is not attested.

In sharp contrast Sinhalese has an attested MIA phase going back to 2/3rd century BC as well as a NIA phase starting from 8th to 9th centuries AD[iii]. This makes it unique among all Indo Aryan languages as far as material for its study is concerned.

“Many of these phonological rules are based on data gathered from literary Prakrits, whose connexion with the languages now spoken, or the dialects found in inscriptions, is often obscure…These shortcomings are inevitable when one studies a language like Ṡina or Lahndā, of which only the modern form is known, or, to a lesser extent, in the case of Hindi or Bengali, for which the documentary evidence does not go very far. There is, however, no reason why the same methods should be applied to Sinhalese, specimens of which are available to the student for every century beginning from the third before the present era right up to modern times.”-(Paranavitana, Sigiri Graffiti, Vol. 1, p. xlvi).

This is why it is perfectly legitimate for the language of the early Brahmi Inscriptions of Lanka, the extant samples of the MIA phase of the Sinhala language, to be called by many names; Sinhalese, Old Sinhalese, Sinhalese Prakrit and Prakrit. It may create confusion among lunatic fringe gentlemen such as Theva Rajan, and incompetent historians like R.A.L.H Gunawardana[iv], but this confusion should have spurred them on to dig more and unearth illuminating explanations such as the following;

“It’s generally accepted that the language of the Brahmi inscriptions of Ceylon is an Aryan form of speech and is the precursor of Modern Sinhalese…To distinguish it from Sinhalese proper, we propose to name it Sinhalese Prakrit, using the term, Prakrit in its widest sense. If objections are raised against the term Prakrit, then it may also be argued that the script is not Brahmi but Old Sinhalese. In this dissertation, Prakrit and Brahmi are used to distinguish the broad division into two strata in point of time of the same language and script, which has continued for 22 centuries from the earliest recorded times. The end of the 7th c. A.D. is the point at which the division is made.”- (Saddhamangala Karunaratne,1960/1984:39)

“There are also some signs of what we might call “Prakritisms” in the Rgveda, i.e. early indications of the divergences from the OIA dialects which were to develop into Middle Indo-Aryan…It seems likely that by about 500 B.C., or about a century after this if we accept the later dates (Norman 1991:300-312) for the beginnings of Buddhism and Jainism, the vernacular dialects, which are some times called Prakrits (from Skt. prakrta derived from prakrti “origin” i.e. “connected with, derived from an origin”, viz. Sanskrit) were appreciably different from the Sanskrit of the brahmanical class.”- (“Dialect variation in Old and Middle Indo-Aryan”, K.R. Norman in “The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia: Language, Material Culture and Ethnicity”See text)

@ http://ratnawalli.blogspot.com/  and rathnawalli@gmail.com


[i] Foreword of Mr. Theva Rajan’s paper; “Tamil as Official Language, Retrospect and Prospect”, First Edition 1995, Second Edition 1998, ISBN- 955-580-006-5

[ii] This list is not comprehensive

[iv] See A, B, C, D and E

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Latest comments

  • 14
    4

    This Ratnavali lady seems to have an inferiority complex and wants to show off. It appears that this Theva Rajan guy (I never heard of him before) said:

    “The earliest Brahmi inscriptions of Sri Lanka are generally said to be in the Prakrit language. Rather than denoting any particular language Prakrit simply means old language”.

    According to this lady expert this is wrong and:
    “Prakrit is an old fashioned term. Far from denoting any old language as Theva Rajan claims, Prakrit exclusively and specifically denotes a Middle Indo Aryan (MIA) language, which is the middle or the second stage of development of Indo Aryan languages”.

    Look, I have no clue about who is right in this esoteric mumbo-jumbo, but would any serious scholar or scientist abuse a person whose point of view she disagrees with as “lunatic fringe” (3 times)? Does this “scholar” think that verbal distemper enhances her standing. No madam you have made a fool of yourself, irrespective of whether you or this Theva chap, is right. GROW UP!

    • 5
      12

      GOLDING:

      IT LOOKS YOU ARE JEALOUS OF HER, and you are trying to bully her because you feel inferior.

      • 10
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        JimSofty

        Do you also belong to the same lunatic fringe that Ratnavali belongs to? From all the articles she has written so far and from what she has written in her blog, it is very obvious [Edited out]

        • 3
          4

          Dear Silva, please note that JimSofty is only the eunuch Rottweiler of the seductively ravishing Darshanie. Take pity, our floppy friend has the bark and bite but not the cojones.

        • 5
          3

          This Ratnavali certainly is a Sinhala Modaya with a massive inferiority Complex!

          Does she not get it: THe past is another country! So who cares about Sinhala or Tamil of Hindi Prakrit.

          Sinhala Modayas love to fantasize about Sinhala superiority to the rest of the world in the PAST – since Sinhala Modayas in the present are ruled by a bunch of thugs who have brought Buddhism into great disrepute in the world!

      • 11
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        Starting from Kuragala issue, this woman keeps dumping truckloads of garbage in a wrong place/forum. This kind of rubbish articles are found in plenty only in one place, a website/forum limited only to Sinhala-Racists and visited by a limited number. She will get an overwhelming appreciation from those brain dead racists if she dump her articles there instead of CT which is read by people who can think rationally. Here, only a very few dumbs like Jimstupid is there to applaud those who write loads of crap.

      • 6
        3

        JimSofty

        “GOLDING: IT LOOKS YOU ARE JEALOUS OF HER, and you are trying to bully her because you feel inferior.”

        Being a lonely old codger yourself, anything that slightly titillates you should be a welcome change in your life. Enjoy while it last.

      • 1
        0

        Interestigly, you should be bullied like an ant.

    • 6
      2

      EW Golding

      “No madam you have made a fool of yourself, irrespective of whether you or this Theva chap, is right. GROW UP!”

      She is only a child who has been kicking and screaming want of attention from old codgers and most probably she is at their service. Since old codgers have lost their vitality and former glory being one dimensional historians, perhaps they are living their life through this child Irathinavalli.

      May be they are grooming (protégé) her.

      By the way I stop reading her version of history many moons ago.

      I depend on Ken Robert to critically evaluate and summarise what is being written by this child.

      • 2
        0

        Native

        old codgers???

        Are you talking about those 2 insane old codgers Bandu ds & Mycal rob??? Man, they still can afford young side kicks with what they get for twisting & turning the old mystery into history. Obviously they seem to be over using their side kick to publish all their twisted stuff.

        C’on vedda, you have turned into a green eyed monster…

        Btw, what makes you think this is a child, the pix???
        Man, this is the only best pix available and is used for the last 10 years.

        Grow up Vedda, grow up!

      • 0
        0

        Native

        “I depend on Ken Robert to critically evaluate and summarise what is being written by this child”

        You know that I am far worse than cheap polemic. I do not have the background in language studies or archeology to critically appraise what is written by ms Ratnawalli.

        But I do take your point that the “old codgers” are behind her writing. The main vexation of these “old codgers” is Prof L Gunawardana, who opined that sinhala identity is not relevant in the precolonial era.

        Therefore, series of pseudo historians have been writing their level best to counter this. They have succeeded in countering some of the evidence presented by Prof Gunawardana.

        However, proponents of Dravidian and sinhala identity fail to see the big picture. That is sinhala and tamils were living harmoniously before the precolonial era in spite of Maha and chola invasions and ethnic identity was not so relevant the affairs of the state.

        As far as the evolution of languages whether it Indo European or Dravidian, I will leave it to the oracle Dharshanie, She could attack prof Indrapala, Gunawardana, Romila thapar, Iravdam Mahadevan and of some two cents worth Dewarajan. But western scholars geiger, Gair Norman saloman, Witzel are her guardian angels.

        In fact I read from another forum on Indo Aryan debate that one western scholar asked an Indian language scholar regarding the lack of interest shown by the Indians in pursuing the language studies. Apparently the Indian scholar replied “one can not drink the ocean with a table spoon!”

        I will rest my case by suggesting only a fool will be deceived by showing the complexities of language studies to demonstrate the antiquity of Sinhalese language.

    • 2
      2

      EW Golding

      “This Ratnavali lady seems to have an inferiority complex and wants to show off. It appears that this Theva Rajan guy (I never heard of him before) said: :”

      This is a general problem with the Paras, both Para-Sinhala and Para-Tamils in Lanka, the Land of the Native Vedda.

  • 3
    2

    [Edited out] you have no north indian DNA just shut the @ up!

    International tourist guides to Ajanta Ellora and Elephanta write even more futuristic gibberish- stop touting filthy cash.

  • 5
    4

    Its time for Jim softy and avatars to get a hard on again after a long while, your much awaited [EDited out] Valli is back. :)

    I promise Native Veddah, I didn’t waste time reading [Edited out] trash.

    • 4
      2

      Rawana

      “I promise Native Veddah, I didn’t waste time reading [Edited out] trash”

      Thanks, nor did I.

      However I am awaiting for Ken Robert who has been very patient with this child and posses’s some knowledge of language/linguistic to summarise it objectively and let us know why this article not worth USB it is saved.

  • 5
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    Ken

    Where are you?

  • 3
    3

    You only have to look through Rajan’s stuff, and compare them with what is in Indrapala’s text, to see how many wrong etymological interpretations have become ‘commonly accepted” analyses among a certain group of people who have studied the ancient history of the Island with a specific ethno-political view point. of course, there is no logical reason why history should not be viewed within some selected frame or other, since the data is incomplete. However, interestingly, Sinhala happens to be a language where there is a long historical record. But from when was it actually called Sinhalese? And from when did the Sinhalese begin to call themselves Sinhalese (i.e., the rise of ethnic consciousness is different to the coming into being of a language). After all, names are ascribed to ethnic groups by other people, rather than themselves. It was the Sanskrit writers who referred to the southern people (south of the Vindyah mountains) of Bharat as Dravida, or Dameda, defining a geographic region (mucl like our referring to the middle-east). The Mahavamsa/Deepawamsa authors identified themselves as descendants of Northerners and used the ‘dameda’ termonology. When did the Dravida differentiate into Tamil and begin to to feel an ethnic identity within தமிழகம்? Perhaps it was with the rise of the Cankam period, and that is not old enough for Mr. Theva Rajan who likes to believe that Tamil even predates the Rig Veda.

    Simply put Rajan and Radhika want to say that the Tamils were here in Lanka before the Sinhalese, and legitimize it with the ICES; the Sinhalese want to say that they were there before the Tamils, no matter when these ethnic consciousneses came into being. Leslie G has to make a Hegalian construct out of the thesis and the anti-thesis and suitably adjusts the onset of Sinhala ethnic consciouness, much like an astrologer who adjusts the horoscope to get the sex of the new born correct.

    What ultimately prevails is who has more money to run NGOs and control the media and the Wikipedia. Most people don’t go beyond Wikipedia because they think that is where they can get all the facts.

    • 5
      4

      This Kautilya seems to be another avathar of Darshanie Ratnawalli.

    • 3
      1

      Kautilya

      One can argue that the language on the earliest Brahmi inscriptions is early Sinhala or old Sinhala, but the fact remains that the language is just another form of Prakit (a foreign language not native to Sri Lanka) and that’s what it can only be called (NOT Sinhala). Indeed, this language could be understood by any Prakit speaker at that time be they from SL, TN, Gujarat, Andra Pradesh, Bengal, Orissa, etc. It is acceptable that this is the language (or indeed one of the languages) that went on to evolve into the Sinhala language – hence the name Sinhala-Prakit given by the European scholars.

      Judging whose interpretation is right, Paranavitana or Wilhelm Geiger or R.A.L.H Gunawardana and that too by an uneducated (I mean a non – etymologist/epigraphist/linguist) journalist is absolutely hilarious.

      • 1
        2

        One can argue that the language on the earliest Brahmi inscriptions is early Sinhala or old Sinhala, but the fact remains that the language is just another form of Prakit (a foreign language not native to Sri Lanka)

        I agree with you mostly.

        Where I differ is in your “not native to Sri Lanka” comment.

        Various slight variants of Prakrits probably existed all over the south Asian region, especially because, due to a mini ice age (pre-Rig veda times), the sea level was low and the “Raama sethu” was a foot bridge. So people and animals moved, and formed a common “lingua franca” and a common biosphere.

        Once the ice age passed, Sri Lanka got isolated, and a specific variant of Prakrit developed and became early-Sinhala or Elu, and at the same time, variants of flora and fauna specific to the island (with today’s scientific name-endings like “Zilanaica, Ceylanica, or Zeylanicum, e.g., Cinnamomum Zeylanicum etc.) came into being.

        • 2
          1

          kautilya

          You are also making a lot of assumptions here. It may be or may not be true. Till now, nobody has done an extensive research/study on the languages that existed all over the south Asian region during the ancient period. Even those European scholars who studied and analyzed the so called Prakrit and Pali did not bother to go a little further and study the other languages that existed in south Asian region during the early period. All what we can do is only assume.

        • 2
          0

          Kautilya

          Looking at Sinhala as a language, one has to eliminate all the loan words from Prakrit/Pali and Tamil to analyze to identify its origin. It is definitely an Indic but to be more specific an Indo- Aryan language mixed with loan words from Tamil.

          Sanskrit/Pali/Prakrit are different dialects of the same language. In fact Prakrit is used to denote a group of written languages rather than just one. It is also true that Sinhala evolved from Western and North Eastern Prakrits. If what Pranavitana called ‘Old Sinhala’ is what Wilhelm Geiger called ‘Sinhala Prakrit’ – a form of Prakrit spoken in the Simhala country, then we are not that far. This ‘Sinhala Prakrit’ is a composite language that was influenced by the sub-continent of India taken as a whole. Some scholars believe that Elu the early language of Lanka had a very strong similarity to Asokan-era Magadhi. Sinhala would have developed from there.

          ‘Sanskrit’ means ‘polished’. It is the ‘polished’ or the ‘eloquent’ one of the lot. Sanskrit was never a spoken language. It was highly an academic/religious language used by the Vedic Brahmins passed down to the families only by oral tradition. Prakrit is another elite language/languages used by the monks and administrators for writing. At that time, the language of the learned or the religion was Pali/Prakrit. The inscriptions only proves that the prevalent religion in the area was Buddhism.

          Just because you find some inscriptions assumed to be written in what is called ‘Sinhala Prakrit’ or ‘Old Sinhala’ you cannot conclude that the entire population in that area during that period were Sinhalese. Isn’t there a possibility that even if Demalas were the population of the area, Prakrit used by the learned or the monks was used for the inscriptions due to the religion in the area being Buddhism?

          What I am saying is that it is not conclusive to say that the language was ‘Old Sinhala’ or ‘Sinhala Prakrit’ and as such the population was Sinhalese, in the context in which it is referred today!

          • 3
            0

            Kautilya

            This is exactly what I was trying to say. Neither Pranavitana nor Wilhelm Geiger or any other ‘scholars’ who labelled the ancient language as Sinhala (early, old, etc) has done a detailed/comprehensive study or analyzed the Prakrit that prevailed during that period in the South Asian region. Neither did they study/analyze the old Dravidian languages. Just because the Prakrit found in the stone inscriptions was part of the language that later evolved into Sinhala that does not mean that the people during that period spoke the same language. It would have been the written language of the monks and the administrators/rulers. It is wrong to come to any conclusions unless someone do an extensive research on the subject.

        • 1
          0

          Various slight variants of Prakrits probably existed all over the south Asian region, especially because, due to a mini ice age (pre-Rig veda times), the sea level was low and the “Raama sethu” was a foot bridge. So people and animals moved, and formed a common “lingua franca” and a common biosphere.
          Once the ice age passed, Sri Lanka got isolated, and a specific variant of Prakrit developed and became early-Sinhala or Elu

          Kautilya

          Where is the evidence for this theory of “sinhala an indo aryan isolate” in terms of archeology and genetics?

          How could one explain common names of naga land existed between tamil nadu and northern province of Srilanka?

          How could one call an “Sinhala and Indo Aryan isolate” when Telugu is also showing heavy sanskritisation?

          Separation between south india and srilanka is a meager 11 Km at Palk strait, are you suggesting the island is completely cut of for a linguistic point of view when there was influential religious luminaries visiting Srilanka in 4,5th century AD?
          Please do not run away like an old car salesman.

          • 1
            0

            ken robert

            “Please do not run away like an old car salesman.”

            Kautilya bought a non existent classic car from a used car salesman. Now he is trying to sell it to rest of us.

      • 2
        2

        Prasad:

        What crap is this ?

        “but the fact remains that the language is just another form of Prakit “

      • 2
        1

        In fact the name labels Prakrit, Old Sinhala, Sinhala-Prakrit, etc were coined only in the early 20th century by Paranavitana, Wilhelm Geiger, et al. We do not know what this language was called during the early period. Neither the Pali/Sanskrit texts nor the stone inscriptions say what it was known as at that time. We are looking at something ancient in today’s context which is nor correct. As Prasad says, the so called Prakrit what was found in the Brahmi inscriptions could have been one of the languages that went on to evolve into the Sinhala language. Ratnavali is trying to create a ‘Sinhala’ identity in Sri Lanka that did not actually exist during the early period.

        • 0
          2

          Mohammed, we dont know what the languages were called in their early forms but we can chart the evolution of the world languages and classify them into several broad groups. The subject is called philology and many people have devoted their lives to the study of how langues evolved from their early forms. The connection between Sanskrit and the various Prakrits are well established. And the evolution of Sinhalese can be traced from the earliest prakrit found in Sri Lanka as we have a continuous record of inscriptions in every century since the earliest inscriptions.

          • 2
            0

            “the evolution of Sinhalese can be traced from the earliest prakrit found in Sri Lanka as we have a continuous record of inscriptions in every century since the earliest inscriptions”

            Dingiri

            The classification of Sinhalese language was proposed by Wilhelm Geiger. I have read this book and it says evolution of Sinhalese language could be classified into four periods namely

            1. Sinhalese Prakrit: there is plenty of inscriptions available to attest this in Srilanka.
            2. Proto Sinhalese: where there is few inscriptions to attest this stage of development according to Geiger
            3. medieval Sinhalese: has evidence of inscriptions
            4. Modern Sinhalese

            I could not agree with your comment that there is evidence for continuous development of Sinhalese language . This is not withstanding the fact the inscriptions may have served as elite written language and native Sinhalese/Elu people may have conversed in a different spoken language.

          • 2
            0

            “And the evolution of Sinhalese can be traced from the earliest prakrit found in Sri Lanka as we have a continuous record of inscriptions in every century since the earliest inscriptions.”

            Ha,ha,ha….LOL!

            This is another big JOKE!

            evolution of Sinhalese and Prakrit inscriptions, what connection???

            even the experts are still unable to come to any conclusions.

            dingiri, do not continue to be an illiterate/ignorant for ever, read many views and think logically, you will realize all what you have written above is bull crap.

            • 2
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              philology expert

              “read many views and think logically”

              Isn’t it too much to ask of these people whose mind is conditioned to believe in a certain way that fits in well with their peers.

            • 0
              0

              Ken Robert,

              ” This is not withstanding the fact the inscriptions may have served as elite written language and native Sinhalese/Elu people may have conversed in a different spoken language.”

              And what language might that be? Inuit?

              Sadly, we need to form our theories based on the evidence we have and not based on evidence we dont have.

              • 3
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                dingiri

                “we have and not based on evidence we dont have.”

                Exactly, you got it right for the first time.

                Therefore you should start reviewing all your history writing, school text books, research at the Universities and stop recycling the old mother’s tales.

              • 1
                0

                Buddha delivered his sermons in Magadhi Prakrit. The Mahavamsa says, the missionary monk Mahinda Maha Thero preached Buddhism to the people of the island in Deepa basa (language of the island) but it does not say that the deepa basa was `Elu` or `Hela` or `Sinhala`.

                Both Prakrit and Pali were the language of Buddhism. Prakrit was used by the learned including the Buddhist monks. It is very clear that the early inscriptions were written in the official language of the kingdom which is Prakrit (not the common man’s language deepa basa) and all the texts were written Pali. Even the Tamil Buddhist monks used Pali language in preference to Tamil in their writings. This is because Pali was considered as the sacred language of the Buddhists.

                Sadly, we have formed our theories based on the evidence we have (inscriptions in Prakrit and texts in Pali) and not based on evidence we don’t have (Deepa Basa) even though it is mentioned in the history.

            • 0
              0

              Perhaps you can enlighten us on what the Sinhala language did evolve from then..

              Guess you belong to the Vigneswaran school of thought that believes that it was the Superior Tamils who wrote all these inscriptions in an alien tongue that has no connection in Tamil for the sole reason of fooling us in the 21st century. :-)

              • 1
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                Dingiri

                “perhaps you can enlighten us on what the sinhala language evolved from”

                This discussion is about how sinhala language evolved rather than from what was its precursor. I don’t blame Wilhelm Geiger for the classification. My main critisism is against this continuous evolution. Even Prof KNO Dharmadasa in his deabte with Prof R L Gunawardana says he does not argue for a continuous presence of sinhala influence over last two millennia.

                I gathered from the references given by Dharshanie that Prominent linguistics experts Prof Norman and Prof Gair definitely advocate prakrit origin for sinhalese. One need to remember that dravidian languages were also prakritised and sinhala language definitively cannot claim it is an ancient language just because its association with prakrit or due to the presence of brammi inscriptions in Srilanka.

      • 3
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        Kautiliya

        I try my bloodiest best not to get involved in this girl-child’s naivete, and I refrain from reading her articles on subjects she knows nothing about.

        You summed up her capabilities pretty well!

        Nabil

    • 3
      2

      Kautilya

      “Simply put Rajan and Radhika want to say that the Tamils were here in Lanka before the Sinhalese, and legitimize it with the ICES; the Sinhalese want to say that they were there before the Tamils, no matter when these ethnic consciousneses came into being.”

      What has ethnic consciousness got to do with peopling of this island? The bare truth is both are decendants of Kallthonies.

      “The Mahavamsa/Deepawamsa authors identified themselves as descendants of Northerners and used the ‘dameda’ termonology.”

      If true it is only appropriate all descendants of Kallthonies left this island and went back to their mother country. Did the suthors of Mahawamsa/Dipawamsa rightly identify the Sinhala/Buddhist people as the descendants of northerners who practised bestiality, parricide and incestuous relation as the pervert Mahanama suggested?

      “What ultimately prevails is who has more money to run NGOs and control the media and the Wikipedia.”

      The evidence suggests otherwise, a large stupid population which votes for the most abhorrent persons and party, a state with massive brutal force, and the people whose minds are conditioned by Mahawamsa myth, a set of parochial pseudo historians who have sold their soul and never had intellectual honesty that producing and reinforcing the same old myth, ……….

      “Perhaps it was with the rise of the Cankam period, and that is not old enough for Mr. Theva Rajan who likes to believe that Tamil even predates the Rig Veda.”

      Third Chankam period is estimated to be between 300 BC and 300 AD. Those Gupta Empire(400 CE–600s CE) and Maurya Empire(322 BC–185 BC)both were contemporary to Changam period.

      Read this below:

      “Scholars have determined that the Rig Veda, the oldest of the four Vedas, was composed about 1500 B.C., and codified about 600 B.C. It is unknown when it was finally committed to writing, but this probably was at some point after 300 B.C.”

      http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/

      Therefore Chankam literatures could be much older than you perceive. It is a question of when people start committing all their oral traditions and ideas to writing.

      Assuming Changam literature is only 500 or less years old would that make any difference to Sinhala speaking Demela’s history in this island?

      However I still believe that the first ape spoke Sinhala.

    • 1
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      Very well put Kautilya. You hit the nail on the head. Teva Raman’s writing should be read together with Wigneswaran’s speeches. Especially the latest one where he claims history should be rewritten to state that the buddhists archeoligical remains in the North and East (with their brahmi-prakrit inscriptions) are the work of Tamil Buddhists who presumably built all those monuments, wrote inscriptions in a language not ancestral to theirs before promptly converting to Hinduism and building nothing until the Chola period.

      I think we all know where they are coming from. Time to put another padlock on the chicken coop.

      • 2
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        Kautilya you hit the nail on the head!!!

        My foot! LOL…

        We got some good jokers here, chicken coop experts!

  • 3
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    Dear Darshanie Ratnawalli,

    RE: Made Excursions Into The Lunatic Fringe….

    “This is why it is perfectly legitimate for the language of the early Brahmi Inscriptions of Lanka, the extant samples of the MIA phase of the Sinhala language, to be called by many names; Sinhalese, Old Sinhalese, Sinhalese Prakrit and Prakrit. It may create confusion among lunatic fringe gentlemen such as Theva Rajan, and incompetent historians like R.A.L.H Gunawardana[iv], but this confusion should have spurred them on to dig more and unearth illuminating explanations such as the following;”

    Question: What does all this prove? This has to be considered along with other scientific, biological, geological and anthropological evidence. Let’s see.

    1, The Native Veddah walked over 25,000 yeas ago, when the sea levels were low, as low as 120 meters. They did not use Prakrit or any other language.

    2. The others, the Foreigners, the Paradeshis, the Paras, the Para- Sinhala, the Para-Tamil, and all the other Paras came by Illegal Boats, by Hora-Oru, by Kalla-Thoni, to the land of Native Veddah.

    3. Analysis of the Para-Sinhala, Para-Tamils and Para-Muslims DNA will show that they all originated from South India and South-East India.

    4. So, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism are all imported foreign religions, called Para-Religions in the terminology of Native Veddah. Para-religion here refers to foreign, and makes no evaluation as to the pros and cons of the imported religion. However, the native Veddah culture and briefs are more egalitarian, and ancestor worship is not any inferior the the worship of idols of the Para-religions. At least the Veddha Ancestors gave them the DNA to continue life.

    5. So all the discussion about Prakerit, Old Sinhala, New-Sinhala etc. is secondary to the discussion as far as the Native Veddah are concerned. Both the Language and the Religion are Para as far as the native Veddh are concerned. Hoover, the paras, instead of behaving like honorary guests in the land of the Native Veddah, have behaved in a barbaric manner and satted a Barbaric Para War, by killing each other.

    5. Therefore, the Native Veddah cordially requests that the Prakrit speaking and Dravidian speaking or derived Paras, get back to their native South India, East India and India, and leave the sacred land of Native Veddah.

    Prakrit and Dravidian Paras, please go back to your native land, India, Baharat

    -Amarassiri

    • 2
      1

      So does it mean that the ratnalogist is an [Edited out].

      • 0
        0

        Pranavithana , Para-nawithana,

        Para-krama Bahu

        Para-deshis

  • 7
    4

    I wonder what to call this woman who claims others to be ‘lunatic’ or incompetent’!
    Nothing, but a fringe of extreme Sinhala Buddhist chauvinism!
    Sengodan. M

    • 4
      3

      “|”I wonder what to call this woman who claims others to be ‘lunatic”|”

      Pedigree chum,

      `Malinda’s Marauding Mercenary`

  • 3
    2

    Tell me one Dravidian country?

    NONE!

    We Tamils have enough political and military leaders to have our own INTERIM ADMINISTRATION in hell.

    :))

  • 4
    8

    Very interesting information Darshanie.

    I am sure, those peelamists who tried to build a tamil history in Sinhale are disappointed.

    • 4
      3

      JimStupid

      Did you understand even a single sentence that she has written?

  • 7
    2

    Ken

    See below in two different articles Sri Lankan scholars had already questioned Paranavitana’s sanity:

    Tamil in Ancient Jaffna and Vallipuram Gold Plate
    By A Velupillai

    http://www.ulakaththamizh.org/JOTSpdf/019001014.pdf

    Senarat Paranavitana as a writer of Historical Fiction in Sanskrit
    By Ananda W P Guruge

    http://www.lib.sjp.ac.lk/Documents/Past%20Publications/V.7%20No.1&2%201996/Article%209.pdf

    • 7
      3

      Ratnavali’s articles are based on the hypotheses and assumptions made by a few selected (or rather biased) “scholars/historians” of her choice while rejecting/calling names or humiliating many other well reputed/erudite and unbiased/neutral Scholars/historians just because they do not suit her agenda. It is very clear that this lady is writing these articles with an ulterior motive/hidden agenda and she is being paid by someone to do so.

      • 1
        1

        Perhaps you could name these scholars/historians who in your opinion are “biassed” and “unbiassed” . It will do your agument a world of good.

        • 2
          0

          You cannot even understand such a simple thing, go and read her articles, you will get to know all those old codgers she is obsessed with, in fact it is they who write all these crap, this poor thing is only a medium, used only to propagate their twisted rubbish.

  • 5
    3

    ICES colombo may have not been a respectable institution for racists like Miss Ratnawalli but it was one of the most respected institutions in South Asia and the world under Dr. Neelan Tiruchelvam. Radhika Coomaraswamy against whom she attempts to cast aspersions just gave the prestigious and very respectable Grotius Lecture. Judging from her articles and her weird website Ms Ratnawalli is the one from the lunatic fringe. If not the lunatic asylum.

    • 3
      3

      Mirianam

      “Judging from her articles and her weird website Ms Ratnawalli is the one from the lunatic fringe. If not the lunatic asylum.”

      You are being very unkind to Irathinavalli, mind you she is only a child.

  • 5
    6

    Theva Rajan is not really alone. The king of the lunatic fringe runs TamilNet these days. There is another writing in these columns too.

    Tamils globally went through a kind of renaissance back in the 1950s. Tamil nationalism that eventually gave birth to LTTE is at the tail end this renaissance.

    The movement is full of backyard historians trying to prove Tamil glory. One of this backyard historians was a Catholic priest from Jaffna who claimed Tamil is one of the ‘classical languages’ equal to Sanskrit. The origin of Tamil being ‘mother of all languages’ is rooted in his findings.

    When Vingeswaran the NPC chief says Sinhala is a ‘progeny of Tamil’ he thinks along the same lines as Theva Rajan.

    Everyone wants to belong to the most glorious civilisation. Its ok to bend the truth once in a while and blow your own trumpet. Although this lunatic fringe has taken the lunacy to a new level causing violence and political instability across SL and India.

    • 5
      4

      Tamil is older than Sanskrit, Sanskrit was an artificial language like Latin making out most of the words from Tamils and Maitli of Apabrahmsa. Old Tamil Language and writings dates back more than 5000bc, it is also said that Sumerian is a form of Archaic Tamil. Trimil was a language of a Greek tribe which flourished through Persia.

      See the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_languages

      Dravidian place-names along the northwest coast, in Maharashtra, Goa, Gujarat, and to a lesser extent in Sindh, as well as Dravidian grammatical influence such as clusivity in the Marathi, Konkani, Gujarati, Marwari, and to a lesser extent Sindhi languages, suggest that Dravidian languages were once spoken more widely across the Indian subcontinent.

      The word “Neer” (from Tamil), is the same word used in Sanskrit, not Jal or Paani as is used in in modern Hindi says itself that Sanskrit the artificial language of the scribes is infact based on early Tamil.

      • 6
        2

        Neil Dias

        “Old Tamil Language and writings dates back more than 5000bc,”

        Maybe the first ape spoke Tamil.

        The oldest Tamil Brahmi (script) inscription found in Tamilnadu is 2,400 years old.

        Perhaps evidence of 7100 years old written Tamil could have been found in your parallel universe. Where is it?

        • 3
          1

          Native, remember that Tamilnadu was the last bastion they settled upon, thus the Two and half thousands of years of settlements and it’s recorded literature is only native to that land, the other traces were the sediments of the traces of words and grammatical connotations left within the trek from Babylonia-Persia-HinduKush-Indus Valley Mohenjodaro-Southern India. Still remotely overseas, Cambodia, Vietnam, Java, Laos, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and China and Japan has traces of the influence of their grammer, cult or culture, even the language of the middle-east Aramaic, Arabic has traces of the Tamil words no doubt. For an instance, the old form martial art Karate was in fact of Tamil origin. The word “Karam” = Hand and subsequetly the word “Karate” is undeniably accurate.

          The Javanese Kawi script has been developed from the Pallava script from which Tamil, Malayalam, Telugu and Kannada scripts have also evolved and the scripts used in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, etc., with the scripts of today’s South Indian Languages.

          The Brahman priests and Tamil Vysas and Warriors have been on the forefront in spreading Hindu Culture in South East Asia. Even today 97% of thepeople of Bali (an island in Indonesia) are Hindus. Their version of Hinduism is based on what was practiced by Oriya, Telugu and Tamil Hindus of 9th century.

          In Vietnam, the Champa people (tiny minority today) practice Hindu religion. There too is evidence that merchants of Chola Kings had even visited New Zealand.

          Many Batak tribesman in Sumatra have clan names which are Tamil and Tamilized Sanscrit names.

          Further, The city of Abraham & Nimrod of Ur,Iraq still names and sounds the meaning as ‘City’. Most Akkadian and Sumerian (consist of more agglutinative words) and their rituals are infact traces of old Tamil culture.

          http://www.heritagewiki.org/index.php?title=Sumerian:TAMIL_of_the_First_CaGkam

          http://www.mayyam.com/talk/showthread.php?1767-Some-tamil-words-in-world-languages/page2

          http://drannadurai.com/x/admin/articles1.php?id=205

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamil_script

          • 2
            1

            “..Babylonia-Persia-HinduKush-Indus Valley Mohenjodaro-Southern India. Still remotely overseas, Cambodia, Vietnam, Java, Laos, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and China and Japan has traces of the influence of their grammer, cult or culture,..”

            Wow!! Any or all of these countries can then be claimed as the Exclusive Traditional Homeland!

            • 1
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              Linguistically but not imbecilically like the Para clans of the Bao Zhou.

        • 0
          0

          NV,

          I gave you an evidences citing the langauage of Indua valley people was Tamil. Yet you mark your stupidity here asking evidences, is that habit of merely bashing Tamils favourite time pass buddy?

          • 1
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            manisekaran

            “I gave you an evidences citing the langauage of Indua valley people was Tamil.”

            You didn’t give me anything on the history of Tamil and Tamils. You did a lazy job, copy and paste from Wikipedia.

            However I have given a list of articles by eminent scholars in a comment to Kautilia below:

            Native Vedda
            May 13, 2014 at 2:44 am

            Find those researched papers, read and understand them then try to answer as best as you can.

            Myth cannot be substitute to evidence based history.

      • 3
        1

        ” that Sumerian is a form of Archaic Tamil. “

        Well, we always knew that Elam was a part of modern day Iran.

        • 2
          1

          Ramu

          “Well, we always knew that Elam was a part of modern day Iran.”

          For once you may be right.

          Elam or Ilam and Hela country are in North West frontiers and North East frontiers of Hindia respectively.

      • 2
        1

        Neil Dais’s claim is not supported by epigraphical or literary evidence, that Jayakumar, Mahadevan and other scholars have examined in detail.

        Don’t rely on Wikipedia articles when it comes to highly emotional nationalistic topics. Some one based in Chennai has claimed that Tamil is older than Sumerian, and the sinhala hela Havula had claimed that there was an ancient “hela” civilization from Greece to Madagascar to the Australasian Islands.

        Claims can be made, and Wikipidia can be adjusted (if you have enough partisan scribes to write waht you want), but the fact is, stone inscriptions give some very definitive incontrovertible answers. Most of these languages (sinhlala, tamil) appeared after the time of emperor Asoka. His stone edicts also tell us what kingdoms – e.g., Vangadesha (Vankam), Kaalingadesha (kalinkam) etc – (and languages) existed during Asoka’s time.

        • 1
          1

          Tamil is still a living language. Do you still need epigraphy to ponder on like Sanskrit.

          Bodi, if you really follow Ashoka’s version of Buddhism you will be only kneeling down to an omnipotent God not a Tricalcium Silicate edifice.

    • 5
      2

      Vibhushana

      “Everyone wants to belong to the most glorious civilisation. Its ok to bend the truth once in a while and blow your own trumpet.”

      It is okay with people if it is once in while trumpeting the lies as truth. However, it seems Sinhala/Buddhists obviously over doing it for the past hundred of years, as though it is their religious duty and full time job.

      Do you agree with all that the Sinhala/Buddhists are pride about themselves? Bestiality, parricide and incestuous relation are the proud history of the so called Sinhala/Buddhists, yet they seem to celebrate those heritages as their own high culture, from which originated present day Sinhala/Buddhist civilisation.

      Either the Mahawamsa origin myth is a complete lie or accept the Sinhala/Buddhist are indeed the product of those inhuman acts.

      “The origin of Tamil being ‘mother of all languages’ is rooted in his findings.”

      I take it that you believe Sinhala language is the mother of all languages. If that is what you believe I have no problem with that. The only problem coming out of your believe is that you want to enforce it on rest of the world.

      You are in agony.

      Quote for the day:

      “I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade… And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party.” – Ron White, American stand up comedian and actor.

      • 5
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        Mahawamsa origin myth is a complete lie

        I agree.

        • 2
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          Vibhushana

          If you agree isn’t it your responsibility to remove all text books which tell the story of Vijaya from schools? You also let seasoned historians know that you are not pleased with inclusion of Vijaya story in their supposed to be well researched papers/books.

          • 1
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            Vijaya is mostly symbolic. He added and enhanced Sinhala already existing. He was certainly not the beginning.

            • 1
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              Vibhushana

              “Vijaya is mostly symbolic. He added and enhanced Sinhala already existing.”

              If Vijaya was symbolic how did he enhance Sinhalese who 2500 years ago never consciously felt or knew they were indeed Sinhalese?

              “He was certainly not the beginning.”

              What was your beginning, bestiality?

              If Vijaya was symbolic why the hell is the Sinhala/Buddgist establishment shamelessly fooling themselves and the country by having the stupid story printed in every text book and embedded in every historian’s stupid head?

  • 2
    1

    Relief or diversion from the theatrics od BBS et al ?

  • 4
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    Well said Sir (I mean to EW Golding).

    She seems at best lack tact and finesse. She has quietly slipped in Sinhala as descendants of OIA!

    None should take her seriously.Lady your slip is showing!

    • 3
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      Asaipillai

      “None should take her seriously.”

      We never did.

      “Lady your slip is showing!”

      She is only a child.

  • 4
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    Oh enough of this Prakrit business- I mean who cares? Vijay married a princess from Madurai- we are mixed from the start. Everyone can get a list of quotes from someone- I mean why is this. Saddhamangala Karunaratne – whoever he is or Mr Norman,whoever he is, more reliable. And why this ridiculous, derisive tone for a legitimate academic debate. Nobody has a monopoly on truth- grow up girl and stop obsessing about the past and look to the future. If your mother likes the BBS one can imagine the influences in your life that make you write like this- perhaps you should move on.

    • 2
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      Vijay married a princess from Madurai- we are mixed from the start.

      Indeed, Madurai at that time was ruled by the descendents of the dying Mauryan (i.e., north Indian) dynasty as well as the ascending Dravidian aristocracy. The Dravidian aristocracy wanted to have fair skinned wives, and so generally got down princess from the North. The search for fair-skin was the norm, even among dravidians. So Vijaya married a North indian princess from the court of Madur (Madurai). It became definitively “damila“, or “dameda” by the cankam period, but the practice of getting “Aryan” wives from the North continued.

      As we see from the Mahavamsa story itself (e.g., the story of princess Baddakachchaayana etc), one set of princess brought from India are described as from the Saakya clan (same as that of Siddartha). So when Vijaya rejected Kuveni (which means ku-varni, i.e., dark-coloured, or swarthy skinned) and called for a princess from Madurai, he was looking for a fair-skinned royal princess from the North.
      Even today, Taml matrimonial advertisements, and indeed those of the Sinhalese, describe brides as “fair-complexioned”, and the white skin is highly priced by eligible bachelors in Jaffna as well as in Scarborough.

      As for the rise of tamil consciousness, Ira Mahadevan is probably correct in assigning it to the Cankam Period. Sinhala ethnic consciousness did not exist until the victory of DutuGaemunu over Ellalan.
      An interesting point of view (with which one may not wholly agree) is given in
      http://dh-web.org/place.names/gamv/tamilBud.html
      There it is claimed that”
      …At that time there was no ‘Tamil Nadu’. Instead there were several kingdoms as well as tribal areas. As the Kera, Chola and Pandiya Dravidian kingdoms began to flourish in the wake of the collapse of the North Indian Mauryan power, these kingdoms began to adopt the sophistications of the North. Sanskrit and Brahminical Hinduism also began their ascendancy and strongly influenced the Dravidian languages. Even the bureaucracy of the Mauryas was copied by these kings. The Mudradara officials who bore the Mauryan king’s seal and gave official authentication to royal decrees became the “Mudliyars’ (c.f., also ஊராளி) of the southern kingdoms. The title Peramukan for a village leader, closely allied to the proto-indo-european form Pera-mukha (first-face), and pramukha, and the Pali Pamukho/Pamukkho also began to appear in the Dravidian kingdoms. This … transparent analysis is rejected by S. K. Sitrampalam writing in the hay-days of the LTTE regime, (1986/87), where it is claimed that Peramuka is an original Tamil word… . Similarly, in a felicitation volume to Prof. Subbarayalu, … Sitrampalam claims that “Although many of the original Tamil forms were either Prakritised or got submerged in the development of the proto-Sinhala language, more than fifty percent of these place names in the Brahmi inscriptions point to their Tamil origin”. In effect, Iravatam Mahadevan’s recognition of the existence of a Tamil variant of the Magadhi Prakrit is pushed to an extreme to claim that words which have old PIE cognates dating back even to the Rig Veda are in fact self-standing Tamil words!” But then, I think Darshini Ratnawalli had already written her views about Prof. Sitrapalam. Her views are, as usual, partly correct and partly tounge-in-cheek.

      • 1
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        Kautilya:

        “The Dravidian aristocracy wanted to have fair skinned wives, and so generally got down princess from the North”
        How do you know this?How do you know their complexions?
        Even an inspired ideologist like you — and probably well-travelled one– must realize that not all”North Indians” are fair skinned?It is the desendamts of the Iranian and Afghan later migrants who are uniformly light skinned.
        And whhat is your source for the claim that the Madurai kings imported brides from the North?
        And since we on the subject of complexions What,since you are obviously a pure decsendant of the Vijayan/Aryan migration,What is your complexion?And Ratnawallie’s complexion,for that matter since she too is Vijayan descendant?

      • 3
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        kautilya

        Could we have some structured discussion here which could benefit you in the long term.

        It would be better if you write the topic that you want to discuss and state your null hypothesis and then argue your case referencing all your evidence. Let us invite other forum sharers to put forward their alternative hypothesis.

        It is sad to see your interest in history is buried under your lack of scientific approach to an unscientific subject.

        In this regard I ask you to read the following research papers that I hope would give you some idea about the subjects that you think you know lot about.

        From Orality to Literacy
        Iravatham Mahadevan
        Studies in History
        July-December 1995

        Shift of Trust From Words to Deeds: Implication of the Proliferation of Epigraphs In the Tamil South
        Rajan Gurukkal
        Indian Historical Review
        July 2007

        Writing and its Uses in the Ancient Tamil Country
        Rajan Gurukkal
        Studies in History
        January – June 1996

        Forms and Forces of Change in Ancient Tamil Society
        Studies in History
        July – December 1989

        The Chronology of the Sangam Texts A Historians Approach
        R Chambakalaksmi
        World Classical Tamil Conference 2010

        Patikam Patuvar: Ritual Singing as a Means of Communication in Early Medieval South India
        R Chambakalakshmi
        Studies in History
        July – December 1994

        Tamil Palaeography as an Aspect of Culture
        A Velupillai
        Senarat Paranavitana Commemoration Volume
        1978

        Pre State Chieftains and Servants of the State A Case Study of Parumaka
        Sudharsan Seneviratne
        The Sri Lanka Journal of Humanities
        1989

        The Mauryan State
        Sudharsan Seneviratne
        The Early State
        Edited By Henri J M Claessen & Peter Skalnik

        Dating of Sangam Age Important Numismatic Findings
        R Krishnamurthy
        World Classical Tamil Conference 2010

        Archaeology and the Cankam Literature with Special reference to inscribed pots and herostones
        Y Subbarayalu
        World Classical Tamil Conference 2010

        Epigraphical Evidence on Dating Sangam Tamil Literature
        R Nagasamy
        World Classical Tamil Conference 2010

        These papers are recommended by my Elders.

        I know you wouldn’t even touch these research article simply because they are researched articles supported by evidences.

        Please feel free to dwell on myth, ithigas, heresy,old wive’s tales, fairly tales, ……….. if you really want to be a celebrated ignorant.

        • 1
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          Native

          Firstly I am impressed by your elder’s resources, secondly I could not have commented better than what you wrote on kautilya’s comments “It is sad to see your interest in history is buried under your lack of scientific approach to an unscientific subject”

          I sincerely hope Dharshanie is reading the comments, at least she could learn few concepts in the study of languages by osmosis.

          • 1
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            ken robert

            I found a link to History Writing for Children and have posted a guidelines somewhere below.

            Could you pass it to Irathinavalli.

            Thanks.

  • 2
    1

    lunatic fringe??? WHO???

    A Pot calling the kettle black! LOL

    Everybody knows who is sick and who needs treatment for lunacy.

    Get well soon!!!

    • 5
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      Pissu Nethan Shook

      “Everybody knows who is sick and who needs treatment for lunacy”

      You are being very very …. unkind to this child.

    • 5
      1

      Garbage truck

      “this woman keeps dumping truckloads of garbage in a wrong place/forum.”

      Garbage in Garbage out.

      What else did you expect from this child (you have wrongly identified her as woman).

      The question should be who put the garbage in?

      Whoever put it what was their intention?

      • 6
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        You are also very naughty native. Mocking this little girl trying to impress her guru michael Roberts ..one who is really in the lunatic fringe

        • 2
          1

          Dev

          “You are also very naughty native. Mocking this little girl”

          Seriously have I ever knowingly or unknowingly mock anyone in the past?

          No I never mock anyone especially a child in this forum. I have a reputation to keep up.

          You are rest assured, I don’t even mock a mocking-bird in my wildest dreams.

          • 3
            0

            Down by the bay
            Where the watermelons grow
            Back to my home
            I dare not go
            For if I do
            My mother will say
            “Have you ever met a guy
            mocking with a sly?”
            Pill him to spay

            • 3
              1

              Lemuropia

              Sophocles (May 5, 2014 at 2:42 pm)wrote a tribute to my people elsewhere under Manic Malinda’s thrash titled “What Must Be Said Will Be Said”.

              You are a plagiarizing thief who not only didn’t mention author’s name but appropriated it as yours. Or are you suffering from identity crisis?

              Go apologise to Sophocles for stealing his/her poetry.

  • 1
    1

    It is sad that those who vilify the author also take pride in claiming NOT to have read the article.

    The author obviously is not of the same geriatric generation as most of the commenters are, but that is no reason to attempt to belittle her. One of them graciously accepts that it is beyond his/her understanding.

  • 1
    1

    Good people, hold your horses. Don’t be too harsh on our Darshanie. The ravishing pouting Darshanie is a clear example of a good but irrelevant education gone bad. There is nothing that cannot be corrected in her sweet but twisted mind and I know a nice man in Kuda Paiyagala who has all the answers to turn around this living, breathing and writing female dervish. When he is finished, she will be the houri of all your dreams and write sweet nothings for ever more….

    • 1
      0

      Rambo, we like gossips, please please helidaraww more about the Payyastone.

  • 2
    1

    It takes one lunatic to identify another. As the full moon approaches we can clearly notice the lunar effects. …

  • 2
    3

    Several anti-Sri Lankans aka Anti-sinhalese people badgering Darshanie.

    Why,

    Are you all Transgender and are feeling inferior ?

  • 1
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    Kautilya

    So now the Madhurai princess is a needle in a haystack- somehow a north indian fair skinned beauty buried among Madurai Tamils- and all the ones his retainers married were they also of Aryan stock? Why do you need to do this- what is wrong if he married into Tamil aristocracy? Why is that so unbearable to swallow? Today our children are marrying people from all over the world but we cannot bear to imagine that Vijay married a Tamil. If that is not racism what is? As for Ratnawalli her website is called “ravings of a mad woman” – that I think is most appropriate.

    • 3
      1

      marigold

      “Today our children are marrying people from all over the world but we cannot bear to imagine that Vijay married a Tamil.”

      God Skantha supposed to have come all the way from his abode in Mount Kailas to this island, fell in love with our beautiful Deivayana near Kataragama, and eventually got married to her with his brothers support.

      The myth about a North Indian resident marrying a Veddah women from this island says something about continuing process of migration, love and life.

      Its true Tamils and Sinhalese migrated to this island but completely forgotten about love and life. Both people are stupid, aren’t they?

      • 0
        1

        Native Veddha:God Skantha supposed to have come all the way from his abode in Mount Kailas to this island, fell in love with our beautiful Deivayana near Kataragama, and eventually got married to her with his brothers support.

        NOT DEIVYANA BUT VALLIAMA:

        • 3
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          DAVID

          “NOT DEIVYANA BUT VALLIAMA”

          Well spotted.

          I was checking whether readers are really observant of what we write here or sleep reading all our garbage.

    • 0
      1

      Today our children are marrying people from all over the world but we cannot bear to imagine that Vijay married a Tamil.
      You were the one who stated with glee that Vijaya had married a girl from maduari and implied she was tamil. Why did it matter? It doesn’t matter to me.
      Why can you not bear that the madurai princes (and even Vijaya) may or may not be
      a Tamil or north indian or what ever? Vijaya may have been just another myth.

      Even in North America, the Asian communities, while slowly progressing, have been noted for honour killings, beatings and harassment of their children who have not followed the arranged marriages or other customs imposed on them. Just recently, in Canada, Sri Lankan Tamil immigrants were mentioned in several cases of parents beating or confining their children. Here is the story of a high caste tamil father in Toronto trying to run down her daughter with a truck:
      http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/10/07/15620916.html
      I am ashamed of some of my Tamil brothers who are till stuck in their Kovil culture.

    • 1
      1

      Marryjolt

      You missed the letter “c” of her “ravings” and could you please elaborate us about her reevings too?

  • 5
    1

    I don’t agree with Ratnavalli at all but there is a lot of sexist stuff expressed on this page which is really terrible. As for clarification- the editor of ICES Colombo during that period was Regi Siriwardena who as you know edited first the Thatched Patio and then Nethra. He also edited the working papers of ICES. My understanding is that the papers did have a disclaimer that the views of the author do not necessarily reflect the views of the institutions. I for one have so little knowledge on this subject that I hesitate to take a stand. However I do believe that the references to Ms. Ratnawalli’s age and sex are quite unnecessary for this debate which has gone on for over two centuries.

    • 5
      2

      Radhika Coomaraswamy

      “However I do believe that the references to Ms. Ratnawalli’s age and sex are quite unnecessary for this debate which has gone on for over two centuries.”

      The first sign of maturity is the discovery that the volume knob also turns to the left – Jerry M. Wright

      Please let her discover this universal truth first then we will quieten down a bit.

      • 3
        0

        Native, how smart did you mute the vociferous Radical Kumarasamy with the volume of a knob.

        VAW, afterall Radika is too much uncomfortable of the age of the poor child she ought to adopt. Did her daily living have become voluminously politics?

    • 2
      3

      Isn’t it part of our culture to be a bit “sexiest”? Does Radhika K know of women’s place in or culture?

      Haven’t you seen pictures of Wigneswaran going into the Nallur Temple with the upper half of his body completely bare? Radhika K should demand equal rights for women and go there with the upper half of her body fully bare, just like the chief minister.
      Or she should send Ban-Ki-Moon to investigate Nativ Vedda and others.

      • 5
        1

        Manoharan

        “she should send Ban-Ki-Moon to investigate Nativ Vedda and others.”

        You are rest assured we are not in the habit of hiding war criminals, war crime deniers, corrupt officials, drug peddling politicians, post war historians, 10 to 20% ministers, rapist, ………. in our backyard from Ban ki Moon or the long arm of the law, usually very short arm in this island.

        However the only time these crooks and criminals can expect sanctuary is when their life is at risk.

        If your life is threatened please come straight into our jungle, ring the door bell, we will take every measure possible to protect your life. If you are a crook, rapist, ….. and a criminal, don’t come to us go abroad.

      • 1
        0

        Don’t be nasty. It is because of the heat that people are bare bodied when they go into a temple.
        When Radhika K (oops, was it Regie S?) was running the IECS, on hot days when there were power cuts, she/he had allowed the people to come in wearing only a loin cloth or a Tie. As for the girls, they were told to wear just a Pottu and nothing else.

        Of course, the men were told to not make any sexy remarks or give those dirty looks. So the Vedda may have to go back to his loin cloth, and avoid glancing at RK.

      • 1
        0

        What is Radika Kumarasomy the savior of women’s rights [Edited out]

    • 1
      0

      Ms. Coomaraswamy,

      It is interesting that you come out to respond in your name here for an insignificant issue, but when there was criticism directed at you by many people for not publishing the SL HRC report before you left for the UN, you didn’t feel it important to respond yourself; instead, you allowed your friends to respond as proxies for you, communicating via email with them, and one of them let it slip by pasting your note to her with your initials RC.

  • 1
    1

    Even today there is a premium on fair-skinned girls – read the matrimonial ads in the newspapers. Facts have to be faced, whether we like it or not. of course, a big dowry helps if the girl does not conform to the conventional ideas of prettiness.

    But men can be black, as we see Krishna depicted in blueish hue. Also, the distinction (Tamil or non-Tamil) did not exist in the time of Vijaya (or Vijayan) presumably 6th century BC.

    But marigold talks of “Madurai Tamils”. She wants to believe that there were “tamils” in Madurai. Note thatit probably was called Mad(p)ur in Prakrit, where “pur” becomes “ur” in Old Tamil and then Madurai in its modern form. The ethnicities and languages that you see today are not what existed 26 centuries ago – think of it, no Sinhalese or Tamils !!!!

    At that time Varna (caste), and clan counted very much. There were Yakkas, Nagas, M’lechchas (those who lived in the hills -Malayaraashta) etc. Kings married fair-skinned Kashatriyas, irrespective of ethnicity which was less important than caste.

    • 3
      0

      Your theory that the Kings married fair-skinned women from the Kashatriya clan cannot be considered as a fact. You seem to be making too many assumptions. You are considering the matrimonial ads in today’s newspapers as evidence to ancient kings taking fair skinned wives, it is really hilarious.

      Bengali Vijaya took women from the capital of the Tamil Pandiya Kingdom in Madurai. Why can’t we say Bengali-Tamil community instead of Bengali-Madura community founded by Vijaya in Lanka?

  • 1
    1

    No wonder Tamils have NO country of their own!!

  • 3
    1

    kautilya

    “There were Yakkas, Nagas, M’lechchas (those who lived in the hills -Malayaraashta) etc”

    These are Indian religious inventions and there is no archaeological evidence to support that Yakkas, Nagas, M’lechchas ever existed in Malayaraashta, may be they lived and prospered in Maharashtra, probably they still do.

    Please read the article on the link:

    THE YAKSHAS, NAGAS AND OTHER REGIONAL CULTS OF MATI-IURA

    The architectural remains from Mathura discussed, are a good indicator of the scale of organisation and popularity of the multiple religious cults that existed in the region, but there were possibly many other local sects and practices that flourished around the region that did not have any monumental architecture associated with them. The cult of the numerous Yakshas and the local village gods and goddesses are some of them, and yet their popularity in the region rivalled the major sects like Buddhism and lainism at Mathura.

    http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/14433/10/10_chapter%205.pdf

    “no Sinhalese or Tamils !!!!”

    You are right only my people lived in this island.

    Here is one I learned earlier:

    A humbug lived in a plantation many years ago. He was so notorious his land was known as Humbug Thotta. Over a period of time Humbug-thotta has transformed into Hambantota.

    Is there any connection between the earlier Humbug and the present day rulers?

  • 2
    1

    Native, kautilya

    Thank you for your interesting comments. I was immersed in reading two books I recently bought, Namely evolution of an ethnic identity by emeritus Prof Indrapala and Sinhala consciousness by Emeritus prof Michael Roberts.

    Michael Roberts, a specialist in anthropology argues eloquently about the reason for ethnic communities trying to establish their antiquity in the post colonist era. I understood this concept as primordialism from his writings.

    Proving antiquity of an ethnicity is complex and I believe it should involve archeological, anthropological, social and linguistic aspects. More importantly genetic make up of our cells (intracellular organ called mitochondria) also has been quite helpful in establishing antiquity.

    It is quite clear Ms Ratnawalli uses the available evidence in archeology as well as epigraphy to argue her case for sinhala identity.

    Here I like to quote a comment made by kautilya in previous columns, before the tenth century the identity of sinhala/demala was less important, and our island was ruled by multiple totemistic tribes who were less interested in this division.

    To his credit Prof Indrapala’s account on of languages in his book is logical in spite of flaws such as giving a lot of importance to Nagas for example.

    One need to remember that initial classification of Indian languages was based on the concept that Indo european languages arise from Aryans and and brought to India from outside the subcontinent. both these concepts have been proven wrong by current evidence ( archeological and genetic)

    Dwelling more on the origin of languages in Srilanka in which Dharshanie claims to be a self proclaimed expert, I would recommend the commentators to read Prof Indrapala’s book.

    • 3
      1

      ken robert

      “I would recommend the commentators to read Prof Indrapala’s book.”

      I agree however please qualify your recommendation with a clause “Except Bandu de Silva and his admirers”.

      As you know History writing has moved on since the days of Bandu de Silva, K M D Silva, …….. Mahanama.

      Most historians in this island find it difficult to ask themselves and their fellows simple questions,
      What, Where, When, Who, and Why.

      Most importantly why now.

      Could you pass the following guidelines on history writing as recommended by (National Center for History in the Schools (NCHS) for children to Irathinavalli and others:

      History Thinking Standard 1

      The student thinks chronologically:
      Therefore, the student is able to:

      Distinguish between past, present, and future time.

      Identify the temporal structure of a historical narrative or story: its beginning, middle, and end (the latter defined as the outcome of a particular beginning).

      Establish temporal order in constructing their [students’] own historical narratives: working forward from some beginning through its development, to some end or outcome; working backward from some issue, problem, or event to explain its origins and its development over time.

      Measure and calculate calendar time by days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuriesand millennia, from fixed points of the calendar system: BC (before Christ) and AD (Anno Domini, “in the year of our Lord”) in the Gregorian calendar and the contemporary secular designation for these same dates, BCE (before the Common Era) and CE (in the Common Era); and compare with the fixed points of other calendar systems such as the Roman (753 BC, the founding of the city of Rome) and the Muslim (622 AD, the hegira).

      Interpret data presented in time lines and create time lines by designating appropriate equidistant intervals of time and recording events according to the temporal order in which they occurred.

      Reconstruct patterns of historical succession and duration in which
      historical developments have unfolded, and apply them to explain historical continuity and change.

      Compare alternative models for periodization by identifying the organizing principles on which each is based.

      Historical Thinking Standard 2

      The student comprehends a variety of historical sources:
      Therefore, the student is able to:

      Identify the author or source of the historical document or narrative.

      Reconstruct the literal meaning of a historical passage by identifying who was involved, what happened, where it happened, what events led to these developments, and what consequences or outcomes followed.
      Identify the central question(s) the historical narrative addresses and the purpose, perspective, or point of view from which it has been constructed.

      Differentiate between historical facts and historical interpretations but acknowledge that the two are related; that the facts the historian reports are selected and reflect therefore the historian’s judgement of what is most significant about the past.

      Read historical narratives imaginatively, taking into account what the narrative reveals of the humanity of the individuals and groups involved–their probable values, outlook, motives, hopes, fears, strengths, and weaknesses.

      Appreciate historical perspectives–the ability (a) describing the past on its own terms, through the eyes and experiences of those who were there, as revealed through their literature, diaries, letters, debates, arts, artifacts, and the like; (b) considering the historical context in which the event unfolded–the values, outlook, options, and contingencies of that time and place; and (c) avoiding “present-mindedness,” judging the past solely in terms of present-day norms and values.

      Draw upon data in historical maps in order to obtain or clarify information on the geographic setting in which the historical event occurred, its relative and absolute location, the distances and directions involved, the natural and man-made features of the place, and critical relationships in the spatial distributions of those features and the historical event occurring there.

      Utilize visual and mathematical data presented in graphs, including charts, tables, pie and bar graphs, flow charts, Venn diagrams, and other graphic organizers to clarify, illustrate, or elaborate upon information presented in the historical narrative.

      Draw upon the visual, literary, and musical sources including: (a) photographs, paintings, cartoons, and architectural drawings; (b) novels, poetry, and plays; and, (c) folk, popular and classical music, to clarify, illustrate, or elaborate upon information presented in the historical narrative.

      Document Actions

      Historical Thinking Standard 3

      The student engages in historical analysis and interpretation:
      Therefore, the student is able to:

      Compare and contrast differing sets of ideas, values, personalities, behaviors, and institutions by identifying likenesses and differences.
      Consider multiple perspectives of various peoples in the past by demonstrating their differing motives, beliefs, interests, hopes, and fears.

      Analyze cause-and-effect relationships bearing in mind multiple causation including (a) the importance of the individual in history; (b) the influence of ideas, human interests, and beliefs; and (c) the role of chance, the accidental and the irrational.
      Draw comparisons across eras and regions in order to define enduring issues as well as large-scale or long-term developments that transcend regional and temporal boundaries.

      Distinguish between unsupported expressions of opinion and informed hypotheses grounded in historical evidence.

      Compare competing historical narratives.
      Challenge arguments of historical inevitability by formulating examples of historical contingency, of how different choices could have led to different consequences.

      Hold interpretations of history as tentative, subject to changes as new information is uncovered, new voices heard, and new interpretations broached.

      Evaluate major debates among historians concerning alternative interpretations of the past.

      Hypothesize the influence of the past, including both the limitations and opportunities made possible by past decisions.

      Historical Thinking Standard 4

      The student conducts historical research:
      Therefore, the student is able to

      Formulate historical questions from encounters with historical documents, eyewitness accounts, letters, diaries, artifacts, photos, historical sites, art, architecture, and other records from the past.

      Obtain historical data from a variety of sources, including: library and museum collections, historic sites, historical photos, journals, diaries, eyewitness accounts, newspapers, and the like; documentary films, oral testimony from living witnesses, censuses, tax records, city directories, statistical compilations, and economic indicators.

      Interrogate historical data by uncovering the social, political, and economic context in which it was created; testing the data source for its credibility, authority, authenticity, internal consistency and completeness; and detecting and evaluating bias, distortion, and propaganda by omission, suppression, or invention of facts.

      Identify the gaps in the available records and marshal contextual knowledge and perspectives of the time and place in order to elaborate imaginatively upon the evidence, fill in the gaps deductively, and construct a sound historical interpretation.

      Employ quantitative analysis in order to explore such topics as changes in family size and composition, migration patterns, wealth distribution, and changes in the economy.

      Support interpretations with historical evidence in order to construct closely reasoned arguments rather than facile opinions.
      D

      Historical Thinking Standard 5

      The student engages in historical issues-analysis and decision-making:
      Therefore, the student is able to

      Identify issues and problems in the past and analyze the interests, values, perspectives, and points of view of those involved in the situation.

      Marshal evidence of antecedent circumstances and current factors contributing to contemporary problems and alternative courses of action.

      Identify relevant historical antecedents and differentiate from those that are inappropriate and irrelevant to contemporary issues.

      Evaluate alternative courses of action, keeping in mind the information available at the time, in terms of ethical considerations, the interests of those affected by the decision, and the long- and short-term consequences of each.

      Formulate a position or course of action on an issue by identifying the nature of the problem, analyzing the underlying factors contributing to the problem, and choosing a plausible solution from a choice of carefully evaluated options.

      Evaluate the implementation of a decision by analyzing the interests it served; estimating the position, power, and priority of each player involved; assessing the ethical dimensions of the decision; and evaluating its costs and benefits from a variety of perspectives.
      ocument Actions

      http://www.nchs.ucla.edu/Standards/historical-thinking-standards-1/3.-historical-analysis-and-interpretation

      • 2
        1

        Native Vedda –
        I completely agree with the Historical Thinking stnadards 1 to 5 you have posted. both my children read history at OXBRIDGE. Unlike many Sri Lanakn children who are forced to do medicine by their parents.Talking to my children at the dinner table is always invigorating.Each year at University they have to do a thesis on their own interpretation of chosen famous historical events.

        They have gone on to become successful in their own careers in investment banking. Shows what an analytical mind can do.

        History Needs No Evidence.

  • 3
    4

    The Sunken Continent of Tamil Engulf all of South and Pacific Asia

    A Dictionary Project of the Government of Tamil Nadu (the Government of South India) published the following Timeline for the History of the Tamil people:

    200 000 to 50 000 BC: Evolution of the Tamil and their Language
    50 000 BC: Kumari Kandam Civilization
    16 000 BC: Kumari Kandam Submerged
    6087 BC: Second Tamil Kingdom established
    1780 BC: Third Tamil Kingdom established

    Goolge Sunken Continent of Tamil and enlighten your self.

    • 0
      0

      Goolge Sunken Continent of Tamil and enlighten your self
      There is a misteken belief that when you want to get at facts, you can get them from google. Not at all. Google uploads the sites which have the most amount of traffic (most number of clicks), and those ones are what you get if you do a google search. So, if Tamil Nadu can employ a lot of Hanuman-like Tamil Nationalists, they can click away and convert a given view to be the Google-given truth.
      The real, empirical truth is much harder to get at. For that you need to go to the
      people who have researched on the topic.

      • 1
        0

        Bordi, the sunken truth in you is that you are an imbecile of a Voodoo stock who cannot reason nor refute a thesis with an understanding of not knowledge but an inbuilt wisdom.

      • 0
        0

        Bodi

        I am sure you are sitting at your desk all day and clicking at some “Sinhala racist site” on the intenaet to increase the traffic as instructed by your pay master.

  • 7
    0

    D Ratnawalli once in a while come up with a piece which given every one an opportunity to express whatever they feel. The beauty is these are the only article where any one can write anything yet it makes sense even though most comments has not much relevance to the subject yet they all gel somehow.

    Look at the diverse comments. There are comments b people who we have never heard of!

    Some are writing poems, some are talking about yakas, some are talking about sexual pleasure, one person has refereed to “Neil Diamond” the singer as “Neil Dais” Jimmy Boi is trying hard to impress DR assuming she might give him her number for quite night out.

    On the other hand D Ratnawalli is having orgasm reading all these comments, which gives her more energy to plot her next article in few months time when the cycle is due. If you know what I mean !

    As her need for pleasure will grow as it’s never enough so we could only expect worst to come.

    This is my opinion, I thought it’s disrespectful if I don’t show my 2 cents.

    • 4
      0

      And I am waiting for the posts to hit the 100 mark, except for a few DUMBS like Jimmy and Dingiri, all others have given their sensible 2 cents which can cause her multiple orgasm.

    • 1
      0

      Afzal, one cannot but admire the combination or racism, sexism and orgasm that our diva is able to provoke. I love reading what she is writing but fear that she may turn Colombo Telegraph into a porn site where Sri Lankan’s frequent to take relief from the Maha Moda Sinhala Mentality.

  • 3
    1

    What a Lunatic fringe indeed including the writer, trying to live in the past, unable to live as decent Humans beings in a civilized world.

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